2.5M house or 5M condo - wife gets the same cut

[TheScience]

 

Having been married well over a decade if I were to purchase a condo when the prices come down  // so let's say that's 5 million. Being married my wife assuming a divorce would be *entitled* to half.

 

If I were to purchase a home for two and a half million she would be entitled to all of it.

 

If I could find a piece of land for 1.25 and build a house for 1.75 that might offer me a bit of additional protection... possibly. I'm under the impression that usefrects are not legal between spouses.

 

So, I'm thinking it's much the same.

 

I would be interested in anyone's input.

[jvs]

No i don't think so,if you get a divorce basically every thing the two of you acquired

after you got married is split 50/50.The price of anything has nothing to do with it.

But why would you think about this?

If you consider a divorce why built a house or buy a condo?

I am not really clear about what you are trying to say.

[TheScience]

1 hour ago, jvs said:

No i don't think so,if you get a divorce basically every thing the two of you acquired

after you got married is split 50/50.The price of anything has nothing to do with it.

But why would you think about this?

If you consider a divorce why built a house or buy a condo?

I am not really clear about what you are trying to say.

So you are saying the house is 50/50? I'm seriously doubting that. In fact I thought that foreigners signed papers counter to that.

 

My marriage is fine thank you. Absolutely nothing wrong with seeing ones losses are mitigated as best possible in ALL scenarios.

 

The entire idea of even buying something is for her benefit far more than mine.

[jvs]

So you are saying the house is 50/50?

As far as i know everything you acquire after you are married is 50/50.

 

[TheScience]

So, even though you sign away all your ownership rights to the home as it's acquired in marriage it is both of your asset - as would be the condo in your name??

 

That's even more incentive to buy a small home rather than a sky-coffin.

[jvs]

15 minutes ago, TheScience said:

So, even though you sign away all your ownership rights to the home as it's acquired in marriage it is both of your asset - as would be the condo in your name??

 

That's even more incentive to buy a small home rather than a sky-coffin.

Yes.

[BE88]

sky-coffin funny name for a condo.

[timendres]

1 hour ago, TheScience said:

So you are saying the house is 50/50? I'm seriously doubting that. In fact I thought that foreigners signed papers counter to that.

 

My marriage is fine thank you. Absolutely nothing wrong with seeing ones losses are mitigated as best possible in ALL scenarios.

 

The entire idea of even buying something is for her benefit far more than mine.

Personally, I would prefer a house. There are no "papers counter to that". The reality is that the land must be in her name, since you are not allowed to own the land. So you would purchase the land in her name. Then you would build the house. At that point, since both were "acquired" within the marriage, a divorce would involve a split of assets. Unless  your wife is well off, and capable of producing cash in the amount of the split on the house, a divorce would force the sale of the house (and the land it sits on) in order to allow the split. If you have other assets acquired within the marriage, with value approaching that of your split on the house, you could always opt to give her the house, and you take those other assets, which would likely be an attractive option for her. Were I you, I would go for the house no matter the future. If you stay together to the end, or you wind up in a divorce, the house is almost certainly more valuable to your wife than a condo.

[TheScience]

6 minutes ago, timendres said:

Personally, I would prefer a house. There are no "papers counter to that". The reality is that the land much be in her name, since you are not allowed to own the land. So you would purchase the land in her name. Then you would build the house. At that point, since both were "acquired" within the marriage, a divorce would involve a split of assets. Unless  your wife is well off, and capable of producing cash in the amount of the split on the house, a divorce would force the sale of the house (and the land it sits on) in order to allow the split. If you have other assets acquired within the marriage, with value approaching that of your split on the house, you could always opt to give her the house, and you take those other assets, which would likely be an attractive option for her. Were I you, I would go for the house no matter the future. If you stay together to the end, or you wind up in a divorce, the house is almost certainly more valuable to your wife than a condo.

Thanks for that.

 

I've been looking at low rise condos for years but I'm just so put off by the lack of windows and space.

 

 

 

Thanks as well @jvs

[TheScience]

6 minutes ago, timendres said:

house is almost certainly more valuable to your wife

Haha not really, she's fine with 60sqm condo as less to clean.

 

Bangkok city girl.

 

We'd both enjoy a pool (plus for condo) but that's another thread.

[BritManToo]

Buy a house with a 90% mortgage.

Then it belongs to the bank for the next 20-30 years.

[timendres]

Just now, TheScience said:

Haha not really, she's fine with 60sqm condo as less to clean.

 

Bangkok city girl.

 

We'd both enjoy a pool (plus for condo) but that's another thread.

Right. Then the condo would have real value, since even if she did not live there, it would have the potential to generate rental income for her in later years. But I agree with you regarding condos - hate them. Once I discovered townhouses, I could not go back. A nice townhouse might be another consideration, since there are (I believe) many more of them in BKK than houses. They are not as nice as a house, but I prefer them to condos. There was recently a reasonable townhouse sold near me (nice moo baan in Sukhumvit 81) for 5.5M. Needed another 0.5M of work, but not a bad price for a 3 story condo with a private parking space. If I bought a townhouse, I would invest in a nice kitchen, a sweet bathroom, and a top notch media room. Also a potential rental income generator down the road.

[Longwood50]

If you are really concerned, start a company and if you want the entire home make her only a small minority shareholder.  If you want her to share in the proceeds then provide a common stock grant that is just a touch smaller than your share so that you remain the controlling partner. 

[KhunLA]

27 minutes ago, TheScience said:

Haha not really, she's fine with 60sqm condo as less to clean.

 

Bangkok city girl.

 

We'd both enjoy a pool (plus for condo) but that's another thread.

Then go with the condo, since can be in your name.  And usufruct are allowed between spouses, though not sure about how that would work with a condo.  The in your name so not needed.

[KhaoNiaw]

I think you can look back a past topics etc. A court can award things 50-50 and then you can whistle for your 50%. Your assets are whatever you have in your hand. Much better to sort things out amicably between yourselves IMO. But if it gets beyond that point, it's difficult because they ignore the court ruling .... And? .... What next?   

[soi3eddie]

It's too late. You are already married. Even if you only have money in the bank she may be entitled to 50% anyway. If you were married in a western country you'd be screwed. In Thailand you may fare better. Condo 100% in your name she may not challenge you for a share. House (can only be her name) you'd almost certainly lose it all or spend fortunes on lawyers trying to recover your half of the value.

[Gecko123]

Many people mistakenly believe that all property purchased during the marriage is automatically marital property, and if you get a divorce, all that property has to be split 50/50. This is 100% untrue!

This misunderstanding (shared by many Thai lawyers) comes from how the law is worded. The law defines marital property as anything which the couple "gets" or "obtains" during the marriage. The verb is actually "dai" or "ได้" But what exactly "gets" or "obtains" means isn't immediately clear. In a nutshell, under Thai marital property law, "gets" or "obtains" means property which the couple has earned or gained through productive endeavor or means. It absolutely and unequivocally does NOT automatically mean anything purchased during the marriage.

The marital property law actually contains two definitions; one for "marital property" and one for "personal property belonging to one spouse."  and in order to understand how marriage property law works in Thailand, you have to understand the definition of both "marital property" and "personal property."

Personal property is defined in Section 1471 of the civil code. It reads:

Sin Suan Tua ( personal property) consists of:

(1) property belonging to either spouse before marriage;

(2) property for personal use, dress or ornament suitable for station in life, or tools necessary for carrying on the profession of either spouse;

(3) property acquired by either spouse during marriage through a will or gift;

(4) Khongman (engagement gifts given to one spouse)

Section 1472  As regards the Sin Suan Tua, if it has been exchanged to other property, other property has been brought or money has been acquired from selling it, such other property or the money acquired shall be Sin Suan Tua. (This sentence means that if you take money you owned before marriage and purchase property with that money (be it a house, land, car, or whatever) during the marriage, and subsequently get a divorce, that property belongs to you.)

Where the Sin Sua Tua has been totally or partly destroyed but replaced by other property or money, such other property or money shall be Sin Suan Tua.

The law also states that in the case of doubt as to whether a property is Sin Somros or not it shall be presumed to be Sin Somros.

========

So if the OP is using money (or assets) that he can demonstrate he owned prior to the marriage to purchase real estate, and he wants to protect his personal assets he would be far better off buying a condo and registering it in his own name. If he buys land and a house, the land will either have to be registered in his wife's name (which greatly complicates the liquidation of the asset in the event of divorce) or he can attempt to set up some type of userfruct or corporate entity to protect himself, but in practical terms, he'll probably get tangled up in endless legal headaches trying to assert his marital property rights in the event of a divorce, and there's a strong probability that he'll end up having to walk away from the property in full without recovering a cent.

 

The myth that everything purchased during a marriage has to be automatically split 50/50 gets circulated over and over again on this forum, and I stopped trying to educate people on this a while ago. But... today being Christmas, thought I'd give it one last try. I hope this is beneficial.

[TheScience]

2 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Buy a house with a 90% mortgage.

Then it belongs to the bank for the next 20-30 years.

I'd thought of it but she only makes mid 20s pm and her company has forced retirement at 55. Ten years. Also locks me into Bangkok for life.

 

Prolly pay more in interest than cost of the house.

[TheScience]

1 hour ago, soi3eddie said:

It's too late. You are already married. Even if you only have money in the bank she may be entitled to 50% anyway. If you were married in a western country you'd be screwed. In Thailand you may fare better. Condo 100% in your name she may not challenge you for a share. House (can only be her name) you'd almost certainly lose it all or spend fortunes on lawyers trying to recover your half of the value.

Well, she'd not touch the cash in my accounts because that would be gone in a flash.

 

A condo in my name, she'd get half.

 

Imagine I'd lose on the house unless I lawyered up.

 

Anyway, I love her very much. She's a total even keel. Never done anything remotely sketchy with my money, asked for stupid money for parents or taken so much as a satang.

 

I want this for her more than me. Little if any financial appreciation but in the long run we're not causing money down a toilet for rent.

 

*Although as a lifelong renter I know all the merits... especially in Thailand.

[BritManToo]

4 minutes ago, TheScience said:

Anyway, I love her very much. She's a total even keel. Never done anything remotely sketchy with my money, asked for stupid money for parents or taken so much as a satang.

Would point out menopause is a risky time in any marriage.

And it's very close now.

[TheScience]

@Gecko123Thanks for that it was very informative. Half the money would come from abroad. All if it could - just picking the pile.

 

Your points are all well taken but I think if the property were acquired during the marriage the wife would still feel justified in suing if need be. It would be up to a court to sort out. Honestly, short of cheating on or stealing from me I'm ok with her having 2m if I decided to walk away.

 

Thanks

[TheScience]

2 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Would point out menopause is a risky time in any marriage.

And it's very close now.

My wife is the happiest, most good natured person you could ever meet. I'm truly blessed.

[BritManToo]

1 minute ago, TheScience said:

My wife is the happiest, most good natured person you could ever meet. I'm truly blessed.

I thought that with my Brit wife, but 30 years later, when she hit 50,  found out I was wrong.

You just gotta ask yourself, "Do you feel lucky?".

[TheScience]

We may be offered a 3.8m THB condo to rent for 10-12k pm central Bangkok so I'm a long way out on this decision.

 

Thanks to everyone some good information here

[TheScience]

1 minute ago, BritManToo said:

I thought that with my Brit wife, but 30 years later, when she hit 50,  found out I was wrong.

Well, flipside is we keep renting. It's no big deal.

 

Finding a condo and I've looked at thousands no easy task.

 

No idea where I'd want to actually buy property with the idea of dying on it.

[4MyEgo]

1 hour ago, Gecko123 said:

The myth that everything purchased during a marriage has to be automatically split 50/50 gets circulated over and over again on this forum, and I stopped trying to educate people on this a while ago.

Totally agree with what you are saying.

 

It all boils down to where you want to live, how much your prepared to lose.

 

Personally we both wanted to live in her village as she has family here, they do not bother us, but I can understand being close to family is important, even though she sees them rarely, the fact of the matter is, they are close by.

 

I decided to build a house on the land I purchased her back in 2007 for 200,000 baht about 1,000m2 with a 20 metre frontage, total build with land 2 mil, I get to live in this huge house, which I thoroughly enjoy and if it all went south tomorrow after 15 years, easier to walk away from it all, my gift to her as she would have to look after the kids and they would have a comfortable roof over their heads.

 

Only invest 10% of what your prepared to lose is a good guide and keep no more than a million baht in any account in Thailand, the balance overseas in investments earning an income stream, therefore she cannot make a claim on it.

 

Have a will in place, and when I am gone, she can have it all for the benefit of her and the kids of course, along with the life insurance policy.

 

Fair is fair.

 

 

[AverageBloke]

2 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

Totally agree with what you are saying.

 

It all boils down to where you want to live, how much your prepared to lose.

 

Personally we both wanted to live in her village as she has family here, they do not bother us, but I can understand being close to family is important, even though she sees them rarely, the fact of the matter is, they are close by.

 

I decided to build a house on the land I purchased her back in 2007 for 200,000 baht about 1,000m2 with a 20 metre frontage, total build with land 2 mil, I get to live in this huge house, which I thoroughly enjoy and if it all went south tomorrow after 15 years, easier to walk away from it all, my gift to her as she would have to look after the kids and they would have a comfortable roof over their heads.

 

Only invest 10% of what your prepared to lose is a good guide and keep no more than a million baht in any account in Thailand, the balance overseas in investments earning an income stream, therefore she cannot make a claim on it.

 

Have a will in place, and when I am gone, she can have it all for the benefit of her and the kids of course, along with the life insurance policy.

 

Fair is fair.

 

 

I would like to follow the exact model you've laid out but Im unsure how too make my money work for me overseas. I don't want to waste another 4 years in Australia waiting for my pension but everything I read suggests we are heading for an economic downturn. If I can find roughly 5% I figure i could probably live comfortably in Thailand on 80,000 baht per month. 

[4MyEgo]

5 minutes ago, AverageBloke said:

I would like to follow the exact model you've laid out but Im unsure how too make my money work for me overseas. I don't want to waste another 4 years in Australia waiting for my pension but everything I read suggests we are heading for an economic downturn. If I can find roughly 5% I figure i could probably live comfortably in Thailand on 80,000 baht per month. 

If you leave your money in Australia, investing in the stock market, all stocks paying dividends already pay the tax for you, so if you sell them, buy, sell as I do and of course keep some paying dividends, you pay no capital gains tax as well.

 

I survive on 70k baht per month which includes private health cover and that is a family of 6, place and car paid off of course.

 

Perhaps time to talk to a professional, I did, then after 3 years took over myself, it's a roller coaster of a ride but I am currently making 8% nett annually on my money in this climate.

[AverageBloke]

1 minute ago, 4MyEgo said:

If you leave your money in Australia, investing in the stock market, all stocks paying dividends already pay the tax for you, so if you sell them, buy, sell as I do and of course keep some paying dividends, you pay no capital gains tax as well.

 

I survive on 70k baht per month which includes private health cover and that is a family of 6, place and car paid off of course.

 

Perhaps time to talk to a professional, I did, then after 3 years took over myself, it's a roller coaster of a ride but I am currently making 8% nett annually on my money in this climate.

Thank you so much for your feedback. I will 100% look into some professional assistance. There would only be myself and my girlfriend and the 80,000 per month would be after 1 built a house and purchased a car. I'm guessing ill have to put aside 5- 10,000 per month for health insurance but after hearing you can do it with 6 mouths to feed  I feel a little more assured that I can make it happen...Happy Xmas

[TheScience]

The discussion sidetracked a bit here. No idea about the Aussie stock market but US is pretty precarious. Just a few stocks distorting the market.

 

There's going to be inflation if it's not here already.