Do Afro American men get treated with respect as teachers in Thailand ?

[Andre0720]

"but being a black man under Thai government system that is racist was like swim with an anchor"

Now why is it that a black man tries again to use the 'racist' card? Why not acknowledge that Thailand is determined to keep its culture as much as possible, while not getting into whether this culture is good or bad. Culture it might well be.

Now on your side, which country do you come from, what is your IQ, what are your credentials as a teacher? I know very well that all these play an important role in obtaining and keeping a job anywhere.

[The Hammer2021]

3 hours ago, Jingthing said:

No. It's an Americanism.  Probably dated. Also gay slang as usually trick. Actually it just means sleeping around but in the context he used it implied commercial sex.

 

BTW there is nothing wrong with Eubonics per se as its just another dialect. Obviously it shouldn't be and isn't taught in English language courses covering standard usage.

I never heard Obama using eubonics. I suspect its the language of the powerless, the illiterate, the under educated and the underclass. Its the language of a sub cultural  tendency underpinned  by criminality. Sho nuff blud it aint  it be no Shakespeare! It's lacks the creativity and cultural  depth and fusion of Mandep language. Both are OK as long as users know how to switch to  real language. But I haven't given it much thought actually.

[Jingthing]

9 minutes ago, The Hammer2021 said:

I never heard Obama using eubonics. I suspect its the language of the powerless, the illiterate, the under educated and the underclass. Its the language of a sub cultural  tendency underpinned  by criminality. Sho nuff blud it aint  it be no Shakespeare! It's lacks the creativity and cultural  depth and fusion of Mandep language. Both are OK as long as users know how to switch to  real language. But I haven't given it much thought actually.

OMG I'm speechless.

 

Edited December 29, 2021 by Jingthing

[chippendale]

48 minutes ago, Gecko123 said:

I'll let the astuteness of the above observation

Facepalm! That is some embarrassing and self-deluded nonsense.

 

50 minutes ago, Gecko123 said:

I am confident that the renowned anthropologists Jared Diamond and Margaret Mead (if she were alive today) would both applaud the keenness of this observation.

"applaud"? OK

I am confident that those renowned anthropologists would shudder at your cringeworthy claims. Try educating yourself about Thai culture.

[Gecko123]

2 minutes ago, chippendale said:

Facepalm! That is some embarrassing and self-deluded nonsense.

 

"applaud"? OK

I am confident that those renowned anthropologists would shudder at your cringeworthy claims. Try educating yourself about Thai culture.

I'll bet you and Tubby Johnson can't even speak Thai. LOL

[tubby johnson]

14 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

OMG I'm speechless.

 

 

That sounds quite edgy and cool, but too ghetto and thuggish for use in a Thai classroom. The parents would have the teacher chased out of town if their kids were taught that sort of thing.

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, tubby johnson said:

 

That sounds quite edgy and cool, but too ghetto and thuggish for use in a Thai classroom. The parents would have the teacher chased out of town if their kids were taught that sort of thing.

Huh?

Nobody said he was teaching ebonics.

[The Hammer2021]

20 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

OMG I'm speechless.

 

Chance  would be a fine thing

[Sheryl]

13 hours ago, CrunchWrapSupreme said:

I found that the closer one gets to BKK, the stricter and more difficult everything becomes re teaching. This includes the hiring of black teachers. Out in Issan there are many black teachers, African Americans and African Africans. I recall at one speaking competition, some students had so many African teachers they had developed an African accent. The Thais didn't seem to mind. They did well in the competitions, despite it not being the Queen's English heh.

 

In BKK, on the other hand, I saw much fewer of them, mostly in language schools, rarely in formal schools. I once worked at a famous big name BKK private school, with a huge foreign teaching staff, and the lack of any black people was quite noticeable.

One of the things that Bkk people openly hold against people in Issan is their (comparatively) darker skin.

 

Lots of Thai-Chinese in Bkk and those not Thai-Chinese will go to great lengths to look so.

 

There is quite open dislike of, and discrimination toward, darker skinned people in Bangkok and surrounding area.

[The Hammer2021]

22 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

OMG I'm speechless.

 

But Boris Johnson  does speak  Jamaican Patois

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, The Hammer2021 said:

But Boris Johnson  does speak  Jamaican Patois

I speak Yinglish but there is a time and a place.

[The Hammer2021]

3 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I speak Yinglish but there is a time and a place.

Well aren't you the meshuga one!?

[Jingthing]

Just now, The Hammer2021 said:

Well aren't you the meshuga one!?

I do my best.

[Gecko123]

8 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

One of the things that Bkk people openly hold against people in Issan is their (comparatively) darker skin.

 

Lots of Thai-Chinese in Bkk and those not Thai-Chinese will go to great lengths to look so.

 

There is quite open dislike of, and discrimination toward, darker skinned people in Bangkok and surrounding area.

I think you are grossly over-stating the extent of racial animus, Sheryl. Most of those antagonisms are class related rather than based strictly on skin-tone. It's 'I am better than you because I can tell (by your sun bronzed skin) that you come from the agrarian class and I'm from the mercantile or upper class.' That caste system might be more pronounced in Bangkok, but upcountry I've never seen Thai-on-Thai mistreatment based solely on skin-tone.

[fredwiggy]

10 hours ago, Surasak said:

With respect, he is not a native English speaker. He is an American by his own admittance. From a personal point of view, reading his post, I get the impression there is a chip on his shoulder. I hope I am wrong, but just how I read it.

Americans are native English speakers, along with everyone that speaks English as their first language. For the OP, I have taught at an English school here, and along with at least three black men, originally from Cameroon. The teachers and kids all liked them very much. They were very personable, funny men who had full "control" of the children in the classes, as well as four English camps taught at other schools. I saw no prejudiced behavior at all. The children here learn prejudice from ignorant parents and leaders, but a lot, from contact with westerners, youtube, pop music and other outlets, are seeing that we aren't the bad people they have been taught, and a lot of these young people are the ones that will bring changes to this country for the better.

[EVENKEEL]

11 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Many Filipinos speak very good English, are intelligent, work hard and are quite dependable. Was that a racist generalization? If it was, I barely care. 

I wouldn't want my kid learning English from a teacher with a Filipino accent. If English is their second language they will always have a Tagalog twang.

[Mac Mickmanus]

2 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

I wouldn't want my kid learning English from a teacher with a Filipino accent. If English is their second language they will always have a Tagalog twang.

If you live with your kid , the kid will pick your accent up, rather than his teachers

[EVENKEEL]

5 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

If you live with your kid , the kid will pick your accent up, rather than his teachers

I get what you're saying, A government school I wouldn't think anything of it, but since I'm paying for better I expect better.

[Arkady]

I met two English girls in a Bkk pub once.  They had been just been for interviews together at a private school looking for English teachers.  The two girls had the same education (which I didn't include teaching credentials), came from the same town, spoke clear English without heavy accents and were the same age but one was white and the other was black. Guess which one got the job.  The head mistress told the black girl, "I am so sorry but the parents would never accept a black teacher.  I am sure you understand my position."  The sad thing is that she was probably right.  The Thai Chinese parents could accept being conned by the school that tpok their money and illegally hired unqualified teachers but could not accept that one of them might be black. 

 

Thailand is truly a form over substance culture.

[pacovl46]

22 hours ago, SCOTT FITZGERSLD said:

 just using the term "brothers" shows that you stll leave in the U.S. thailand is a modern, sofisticated, warm hearted country open for all to excell according to their talents, skin color has nothing to do with anything in this beutyfull land of smiles.

Right! Tell that to the dark skinned Thai with a degree in banking who works on the parking lot of the hospital next to Central Bang Na because he can’t actually get a job in his field because his skin is too dark! 

Edited December 29, 2021 by pacovl46

[radiochaser]

I have a very dark skinned Thai nephew that my wife supported from elementary, to highschool and as he was attending a University in Bangkok.  He completed his education and receivied a degree in mechanical engineering, with high grades.  

He had his choice of where and who to work for within 2 months of graduating.  He chose the one that paid the most money, which I think was aout 25,000 baht a month, but I could be wrong about that, but it was a very high starting salary.  

So I do not understand fully the issue with dark skinned Thai's being discriminated against because of the dark color of their skin.  

As to Americans of African decent, I have known several who married Thai women, both in Thailad and here in the U.S. of A..  None of them seem to have a problem from other Thai's from an apparent racist attitude based on the color of their skin.  

 

[Kwaibill]

On 12/29/2021 at 5:47 PM, Liverpool Lou said:

They're hardly native English-speakers, either!

They are, from comments read elsewhere  when I was looking into TEFL certification, willing to work for less, an overly common predisposition in the Thai hierarchy. I believe it was noted earlier that the same perspective has operated re: governmental IT programs. I imagine there are qualified Thai IT people... working for non-Thai concerns that pay comensurate salaries for quality work.

Not many effective native English speakers will work for what the school systems are willing to pay.

Thought about it, and probably could do well with basic math and science as well, but my " Mr. Chips" days are in the past. My last formal teaching days, of Latin!, were nearly half a century ago. Done a little casual tutoring of English here and there, but not physically up to a contractual arrangement, the now.????

[FritsSikkink]

On 12/29/2021 at 1:23 PM, Sheryl said:

I am not sure it is so much that it is less overt than that a foreigner not fluent in Thai and the Thai way of doing/expressing things might miss it.

 

In my experience many Thais see nothing at all wrong with open discrimination against people of darker skin and will not deny their bias if asked; in fact they will openly give it as a reason for various actions.  Whereas most people in Western countries have been taught this is unacceptable (whether or not they harbor such sentiments in private or not).  But I can see where a foreigner might miss it - Thais are not going to use English language racial epithets, and they'll smile while being racist.

 

 

 

 

I got to know quite a lot of Thais over the last decades and speak the language but see a lot more racism on this thread than with the Thai people i know.

Edited December 30, 2021 by FritsSikkink

[cdemundo]

On 12/28/2021 at 5:03 PM, spidermike007 said:

Many Filipinos speak very good English, are intelligent, work hard and are quite dependable. Was that a racist generalization? If it was, I barely care. 

I think the preference for native English speakers is reasonable.

IMHO the problem with Filipino teachers is their accent.

Second language learners model their pronunciation to a large extent by listening to their teacher.

I come in contact with a large number of Filipinos here in the US.

Many of them are difficult to understand due to strong accents.

 

I knew a Chinese student in the US who told me he was very frustrated when he came to the US.  He had several years of English language studies in China but his teachers were all Chinese and he couldn't understand Americans and they couldn't understand him when he first came to the US.

 

As far as appearance and parent point of view: I was teaching with a Chinese internet company that only used US or Canadian teachers. Parents chose their kid's teachers on the company app.

The teaching staff was heavily weighted towards blue-eyed blonds.

The reason was apparently that parents preferred them as they conformed to the parents expectations of what an English speaker looked like. They were also specifically heavily weighted to blue-eyed blond young women, you can draw your own conclusions as to why that was.

[aarontendo]

On 12/29/2021 at 4:51 PM, IAMHERE said:

OP been in Thailand ssince 2019 and just now his first post. Not sure how much I should care.

God forbid someone doesn't fall into this pit of whiny old gits upon disembarking at swampy.

[Nickelbeer]

On 12/29/2021 at 12:18 AM, spidermike007 said:

A dear friend of mine is a light skinned black man, and although he is not a teacher, he does encounter a fair degree of racism here. Not of the nasty sort. More of the preferential sort. People believe what they believe. Whiteness is worshipped in Asia. 

 

I like to like with my Thai wife. Say this ten times. White is bad. Black is beautiful. She won't say it! 

I am about as. white as I could possibly be and have a Master's Degree. I am STILL not considered equal to the poorest Thai person. It is a preferential culture. Japan is racist too, and China to some extent.  Thailand is a country where they still sell Confederate flag t-shirts and Nazi regalia. Casual racism is certainly no surprise.

Edited December 31, 2021 by Nickelbeer

[KhunLA]

1 minute ago, Nickelbeer said:

I am about as. white as I could possibly be and have a Master's Degree. I am STILL not considered equal to the poorest Thai person. It is a preferential culture. Japan is racist too, and China to some extent.

Think you need a better circle of friends.  Most Thais I know treat me as fairly equal, and not much different, sometimes much better than the folks back in the homeland.

[Scott]

Off-topic posts removed.  

 

[Credo]

I find it interesting how so many caucasians can be so sure there is no discrimination or racism.  They are wrong.  I worked with a number of Black teachers from Africa, the US and the UK/EU.   All of them had varying levels of discrimination.   All of them were very well qualified, but yet were often rejected in favor of a much less qualified backpacker.   They were also offered less money when they found employment.  Where I worked, the standard starting salary at that time was 35,000 Baht.  They were started at 32,000.   

 

Most of the Black teachers had a very difficult time finding housing.  Many landlords simply didn't want to rent to them.  At the school, one of the Thai admin would usually have to secure an apartment on their behalf.   

In everyday life, they had trouble with things like catching a taxi.  They would simply drive right past them.  Even the generally reliable songtaews would pass them by.   

 

A close friend, who worked at a hotel said that the management had a strict policy of not renting rooms to Blacks.  The only time a Black person was given a room was if they made an advance reservation and the hotel did not know in advance they were black.   

 

Thais are not generally confrontational in nature, but they are cautious, careful and prone to stereotyping.  

[Nickelbeer]

9 hours ago, Credo said:

I find it interesting how so many caucasians can be so sure there is no discrimination or racism.  They are wrong.  I worked with a number of Black teachers from Africa, the US and the UK/EU.   All of them had varying levels of discrimination.   All of them were very well qualified, but yet were often rejected in favor of a much less qualified backpacker.   They were also offered less money when they found employment.  Where I worked, the standard starting salary at that time was 35,000 Baht.  They were started at 32,000.   

 

Most of the Black teachers had a very difficult time finding housing.  Many landlords simply didn't want to rent to them.  At the school, one of the Thai admin would usually have to secure an apartment on their behalf.   

In everyday life, they had trouble with things like catching a taxi.  They would simply drive right past them.  Even the generally reliable songtaews would pass them by.   

 

A close friend, who worked at a hotel said that the management had a strict policy of not renting rooms to Blacks.  The only time a Black person was given a room was if they made an advance reservation and the hotel did not know in advance they were black.   

 

Thais are not generally confrontational in nature, but they are cautious, careful and prone to stereotyping.  

Of course, the Thais INSIST that you "respect" their culture, which includes built-in racism.