Cloth face masks not recommended against Omicron

[snoop1130]

 

Cloth face masks are useless against the Omicron variant and the Thai COVID-19 Information Centre is recommending that people wear three-layer medical masks instead, citing information from a guest professor at the Milken Institute of George Washington University, Dr. Leana Wen.

 

People can use cloth face masks to cover their medical masks if they want to, according to the COVID-19 Information Centre.

 

In Thailand’s north-eastern province of Ubon Ratchathani, an Australian tourist, who arrived in the country last week to visit his wife, is now being treated in hospital after he tested positive for the Omicron variant. Ten people in close contact with him have been placed under medical observation.

 

Full Story: https://www.thaipbsworld.com/cloth-face-masks-not-recommended-against-omicron/

 

-- © Copyright Thai PBS 2021-12-28

 

- Whatever you're going through, the Samaritans are here for you

- Follow ASEAN NOW on LINE for breaking COVID-19 updates

[StayinThailand2much]

10 minutes ago, snoop1130 said:

Cloth face masks are useless against the Omicron variant (...)

 

In Thailand’s north-eastern province of Ubon Ratchathani, an Australian tourist, who arrived in the country last week to visit his wife, is now being treated in hospital after he tested positive for the Omicron variant (...)

 

Two, absolutely unrelated, news items! Why not add one more, e.g. "That dinosaurs died out 65 million years ago is common knowledge."

Edited December 28, 2021 by StayinThailand2much

[ThailandRyan]

9 minutes ago, snoop1130 said:

In Thailand’s north-eastern province of Ubon Ratchathani, an Australian tourist, who arrived in the country last week to visit his wife, is now being treated in hospital after he tested positive for the Omicron variant. Ten people in close contact with him have been placed under medical observation.

Are they hinting at the fact he was wearing a cloth mask or what.  Why include him in the story just because he tested positive for Omicron...

[Virt]

Did they read TV and find our links from last week ????

[ThLT]

Same virus. If cloth masks don't work for Omicron... they don't work for Delta, Alpha, etc. ????

[sherwood]

A cloth mask against Covid is akin to using chicken wire against mosquitos. 

I use a mask every time I should but I still have little confidence in the thing, keeps some people from attacking me when out and about so yep I will keep up with the protocol. 

[James105]

So the goalposts are shifting on masks for the new variant.   Has the size of the pathogen changed?  Has the mode of transmission changed?  Or is this an implicit admission that anything that cannot block omicron also cannot block any other variant?   Pseudo science.  

[rabas]

1 minute ago, James105 said:

So the goalposts are shifting on masks for the new variant.   Has the size of the pathogen changed?  Has the mode of transmission changed?  Or is this an implicit admission that anything that cannot block omicron also cannot block any other variant?   Pseudo science.  

Real science.

 

Omicron grows up to 70 times faster in the bronchi than Delta. Masks stop a percentage of particles in the air.

 

https://www.timesofisrael.com/omicron-variant-found-to-grow-70-times-faster-than-delta-in-respiratory-tissue/

[richard_smith237]

2 minutes ago, James105 said:

So the goalposts are shifting on masks for the new variant.   Has the size of the pathogen changed?  Has the mode of transmission changed?  Or is this an implicit admission that anything that cannot block omicron also cannot block any other variant?   Pseudo science.  

It definitely seems the goal posts have shifted. 

 

Initially the masks were suggested as a ‘barrier’ to protect others from projecting expelled respiratory droplets contaminated with Covid-19 (from both symptomatic and asymptomatic carriers) 

 

The latest suggestions are a ‘well fitting’ N95 mask could protect the wearer from ‘breathing in’ expelled respiratory droplets contaminated with Covid-19.

 

 

Nothing less than a biohazard suit with its own air supply offers 100% protection - but perhaps a well fitting N95 mask can make a difference given how contagious Omicron is. 

 

 

When in indoor areas of high footfall it may be worth wearing such a mask. Not because we have excessive concerns for our heath, but because contracting Covid-19 can come with a great deal of inconvenience give the official response to positive cases. 

 

 

 

[kimamey]

8 minutes ago, James105 said:

So the goalposts are shifting on masks for the new variant.   Has the size of the pathogen changed?  Has the mode of transmission changed?  Or is this an implicit admission that anything that cannot block omicron also cannot block any other variant?   Pseudo science.  

Single layer cloth mask have never been as good as the medical ones like the one worn by the guy in the picture which in turn aren't as good as FFP3 masks. They are all best at reducing the risk of breathing infected droplets onto other people but not so good at protecting the wearer as the droplets stay on the mask. Previously the cloth masks were seen as something that it was possible to get a large proportion of the population to wear. 

Omicron is more transmissible so now there's seen to be a need to move to more effective masks. Cloth ones are still better than nothing but better masks will reduce the risk. 

[smedly]

if this is the case then governments including in Thailand should be providing them free since they are forcing people to wear them.

[richard_smith237]

4 minutes ago, smedly said:

if this is the case then governments including in Thailand should be providing them free since they are forcing people to wear them.

Agreed.....  

 

Free N95 masks....

Free Antigen test kits for ALL and recommendations to self isolate if anyone tests positive. 

Free PCR tests at hospitals for anyone to test if they suspect they have symptoms

 

 

 

 

[James105]

7 minutes ago, kimamey said:

Single layer cloth mask have never been as good as the medical ones like the one worn by the guy in the picture which in turn aren't as good as FFP3 masks. They are all best at reducing the risk of breathing infected droplets onto other people but not so good at protecting the wearer as the droplets stay on the mask. Previously the cloth masks were seen as something that it was possible to get a large proportion of the population to wear. 

Omicron is more transmissible so now there's seen to be a need to move to more effective masks. Cloth ones are still better than nothing but better masks will reduce the risk. 

Germany mandated medical grade masks in Jan 2021.   It didn't make any difference there.   Why would it make any difference here?   These things are so ineffective it is impossible to tell the difference between covid transmission rates where countries have mandated masks vs countries that have not.   Since July 2021 England did not mandate masks but Wales did.   No prizes for guessing who had the higher transmission rates?  Hint:  It wasn't England!  

 

The only logical reason I can see for mask mandates is that the people imposing them have financial interest in the companies that make them. 

[Bkk Brian]

14 minutes ago, James105 said:

Germany mandated medical grade masks in Jan 2021.   It didn't make any difference there.

You're losing yourself in contradictions

 

14 minutes ago, James105 said:

  These things are so ineffective it is impossible to tell the difference between covid transmission rates where countries have mandated masks vs countries that have not.   

How do you know it didn't make a difference if you now claim its impossible to tell the difference?

 

14 minutes ago, James105 said:

The only logical reason I can see for mask mandates is that the people imposing them have financial interest in the companies that make them. 

Most masks are made in China. So Public Health in western countries have financial interest in china?

Edited December 28, 2021 by Bkk Brian

[StayinThailand2much]

12 minutes ago, James105 said:

Germany mandated medical grade masks in Jan 2021.   It didn't make any difference there.

Data are contradictory, but even those masks seem to be less than 20% effective.

[DrPhibes]

OK, let's get the science down.  Masks are more to keep globs of what you expel in a cough or a sneeze (which contain a large amount of virus if you have it) out of your mouth and into your mask and not sending the aerosol into the general atmosphere.  It has little to do on the receiving end if the aerosol expelled (much smaller so less virus) is about the same size as the intake particle size on your mask unless it happens to hit part of the mask incoming.  Problem is on a flight, you already have a reduced atmospheric pressure and adding more and more masks just restricts respiration, oxygen in and carbon dioxide out, basically suffocation.  Vaccination helps reduce things but with a rapidly mutating virus, who knows?  Omicron could be a less symptom mutation that overwhelms Delta and allows us to just have a flu season and a COVID season for shots, or, it can be the mutation that leads to a more deadlier mutation that culls the overpopulation of humans on earth, who knows.  To be alive is risking death. 

Edited December 28, 2021 by DrPhibes
miss-spelling ;-)

[kimamey]

40 minutes ago, James105 said:

Germany mandated medical grade masks in Jan 2021.   It didn't make any difference there.   Why would it make any difference here?   These things are so ineffective it is impossible to tell the difference between covid transmission rates where countries have mandated masks vs countries that have not.   Since July 2021 England did not mandate masks but Wales did.   No prizes for guessing who had the higher transmission rates?  Hint:  It wasn't England!  

 

The only logical reason I can see for mask mandates is that the people imposing them have financial interest in the companies that make them. 

I haven't had the time to check your figures but I've found a few links related to the effectiveness of wearing a mask.

 

https://www.pnas.org/content/118/4/e2014564118

https://www.bmj.com/content/375/bmj-2021-068302

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/landig/article/PIIS2589-7500(21)00003-0/fulltext

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/17/wearing-masks-single-most-effective-way-to-tackle-covid-study-finds

I don't know where you you got you information about whether masks work or not.

 

This link relates to the difference in mask wearing between Wales and England.

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/number-people-wearing-face-masks-21969761

 

It's worth pointing out that in England whilst mask wearing hasn't been a legal requirement for the public since July it has been recommended and for a long time masks were commonly worn indoors and many establishments insisted on them. I have regularly worn a mask in England whilst in indoor settings such as shops and it was only recently when it was obvious I was almost the only person wearing one i some places that I stopped. Obviously I'm now wearing one again.

 

Try holding holding your hand in front of your face and then cough. Could you feel it? Now try again wearing a mask. Now try breathing out in front of a piece of glass so it steams up. Now try with a mask on.  If you can't see a difference you're probably not wearing it properly.

 

Not really scientific but it does demonstrate the principle.

Edited December 28, 2021 by kimamey

[Scott]

I live in an area with no mask mandates and they do make a difference.  Some schools did have mandates and some did not.  Those that did, fared much better than those that did not.  Those that did not were forced to close classes or the entire school at times.  The ones with mask mandates were able to remain open.   It's anecdotal, but it was consistent for a long time.   

 

Masks are a fairly ease way of protecting others.  They are less effective in protecting you, but still provide some protection.   Masks are effective WHEN combined with social distancing.  

 

But there is so much variability in the type of mask and wearing it properly.  

 

It's important to remember it takes a significant amount of the virus before we get sick.  Our innate immune system is always on guard and gets rid of small amounts of infectious pathogens.  It's once we get a large amount that it gets seeded and overwhelms the innate system that we start having a problem.   I suspect many people have come into contact with small amounts of the virus without a problem.

 

Omicron is producing large viral loads much higher up in the respiratory tract than earlier versions, they are expelled at larger levels.  

 

As the virus changes, we need to adapt as well.
 

[kimamey]

27 minutes ago, DrPhibes said:

OK, let's get the science down.  Masks are more to keep globs of what you expel in a cough or a sneeze (which contain a large amount of virus if you have it) out of your mouth and into your mask and not sending the aerosol into the general atmosphere.  It has little to do on the receiving end if the aerosol expelled (much smaller so less virus) is about the same size as the intake particle size on your mask unless it happens to hit part of the mask incoming.  Problem is on a flight, you already have a reduced atmospheric pressure and adding more and more masks just restricts respiration, oxygen in and carbon dioxide out, basically suffocation.  Vaccination helps reduce things but with a rapidly mutating virus, who knows?  Omicron could be a less symptom mutation that overwhelms Delta and allows us to just have a flu season and a COVID season for shots, or, it can be the mutation that leads to a more deadlier mutation that culls the overpopulation of humans on earth, who knows.  To be alive is risking death. 

Much of what you say is true but the last time I wore a mask on a plane I don't remember anything like suffocation. A human will expel far more air than can be contained in a mask so most will exit the mask and air of similar composition to that which you would normally inhale if you weren't wearing a mask will pass through the fabric of the mask and into your lungs. It might be restricted compared to not wearing a mask  but you won't suffocate. The air in a plane is constantly changed and filtered as well.

[Felt 35]

????Wonder if doctors, nurses etc walk around with the same medical mask for days and then handclean it in cold water, just saying.

Felt

[Scott]

12 minutes ago, Felt 35 said:

????Wonder if doctors, nurses etc walk around with the same medical mask for days and then handclean it in cold water, just saying.

Felt

At the height of the pandemic when PPE was critically short, they certainly were reusing masks and other protective equipment.  In some hospitals, where they didn't have gowns, the staff were wearing garbage bags.

 

[DrPhibes]

25 minutes ago, kimamey said:

Much of what you say is true but the last time I wore a mask on a plane I don't remember anything like suffocation. A human will expel far more air than can be contained in a mask so most will exit the mask and air of similar composition to that which you would normally inhale if you weren't wearing a mask will pass through the fabric of the mask and into your lungs. It might be restricted compared to not wearing a mask  but you won't suffocate. The air in a plane is constantly changed and filtered as well.

There are recommendations now of wearing 3 masks now further restricting breathing.  The serious devices that cover your whole head and have breathing valves on them are banned on most flights.

[Bkk Brian]

29 minutes ago, kimamey said:

Much of what you say is true but the last time I wore a mask on a plane I don't remember anything like suffocation. A human will expel far more air than can be contained in a mask so most will exit the mask and air of similar composition to that which you would normally inhale if you weren't wearing a mask will pass through the fabric of the mask and into your lungs. It might be restricted compared to not wearing a mask  but you won't suffocate. The air in a plane is constantly changed and filtered as well.

Just as a side note, the air filtration system inside newer planes is highly efficient and as effective as covid hospital wards in some studies. Thats before Omicron, not sure if that changes things a bit?

[ozimoron]

1 hour ago, James105 said:

So the goalposts are shifting on masks for the new variant.   Has the size of the pathogen changed?  Has the mode of transmission changed?  Or is this an implicit admission that anything that cannot block omicron also cannot block any other variant?   Pseudo science.  

I think there is some substance in the change. It is known that it takes a certain viral load to catch the disease and even if caught the viral load affects the outcome. Omicron is far more contagious and therefore requires a lower virus load to transmit efficiently.

[Virt]

1 hour ago, James105 said:

So the goalposts are shifting on masks for the new variant.   Has the size of the pathogen changed?  Has the mode of transmission changed?  Or is this an implicit admission that anything that cannot block omicron also cannot block any other variant?   Pseudo science.  

Most cloth masks are considered less effective than a certified surgical mask.

No news there.

Has been like that for a long time.

 

Even the popular brands write they are not meant for medical use.

 

https://www.adidas.com/us/face-cover-extra-small-small---not-for-medical-use/H59840.html

 

 

If we have to wear them, why not use some that provides a higher protection than cloth masks.

 

I wore them when i had to during the entire pandemi but i can't wait until we have to stop wearing those annoying little things.

[kimamey]

22 minutes ago, DrPhibes said:

There are recommendations now of wearing 3 masks now further restricting breathing.  The serious devices that cover your whole head and have breathing valves on them are banned on most flights.

Do you mean 3 single layer masks? The blue masks like the one shown in the picture are already 3 layers

[ThLT]

1 hour ago, TropicalGuy said:

they’ve never worked for anything …….political muzzling compliance gesture.

If I spit at the lower area of your face, and you wear a mask, it will make a difference. ????

 

Edited December 28, 2021 by ThLT

[tomster]

9 hours ago, snoop1130 said:

is now being treated in hospital after he tested positive for the Omicron variant

Treated with tissues and hot toddys?

[whaleboneman]

11 hours ago, smedly said:

if this is the case then governments including in Thailand should be providing them free since they are forcing people to wear them.

Sure. And your pants and undies too.

[James105]

11 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

You're losing yourself in contradictions

 

How do you know it didn't make a difference if you now claim its impossible to tell the difference?

 

Most masks are made in China. So Public Health in western countries have financial interest in china?

If masks made a difference it would be easy to point at countries that implemented mask mandates and infer a clear distinction from these countries vs countries that did not.  I simply used Wales / England as a case in point since they have similar climate / demographic, and in this case the country with higher infections per 100,000 people is the one implementing mask mandates.    

 

You don't seriously believe China sell directly to consumers and health organisations in countries such as the UK do you?  This is the kind of thing I was referring to and I expect this type of story is repeated in most governments the world over:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/nov/16/michael-gove-backer-won-164m-in-ppe-contracts-after-vip-lane-referral

 

There is profit to be made by forcing people to wear a piece of cloth/plastic over their faces.