ICE vs EV, the debate thread

[JBChiangRai]

1 minute ago, JonnyF said:

 

"Government targets" being the operative word.

 

People are being forced into it by government policy. Tax breaks on EV. Car makers limiting ICE deliveries to avoid fines. If you limit supply of one product, purchases of the alternative tend to grow. Many stories in the UK of dealers being unable to keep petrol cars on the forecourt for more than a day or two, but EV's are always available.

 

The UK government is manipulating the market.

 

Many governments have set targets, they will all use the stick or the carrot, maybe both.

 

Customers like them because they provide a superior driving experience.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 7/30/2024 at 8:24 PM, Pib said:

Then you need to stop viewing/using AseanNow, Facebook, Youtube, etc., to avoid being a crimmial.  

I doubt AN is "social media" in the way facebook is, and I never go on that or the twit one, and the only reason I go on U Tube is for music, hamsters and Russian dash cams footage of accidents.

Oh, and when Trump wins elections to see snowflakes crying.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 8/11/2024 at 7:48 PM, KhunLA said:

The Dinosaurs didn't evolve either, look what happen to them 

They died because a big asteroid hit the planet, exactly the same as will happen to humans if another one hits.

[JBChiangRai]

2 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

They died because a big asteroid hit the planet, exactly the same as will happen to humans if another one hits.

 

ICE are the Dinosaurs and EV's are the asteroid.

[JBChiangRai]

BMW will sell its first hydrogen car from 2028 in the UK and elsewhere.

 

At present, the UK has just six hydrogen refueling stations.

 

The network has shrunk in recent years, predominantly as a result of Shell closing all three of its UK locations in Cobham, Gatwick and Beaconsfield towards the end of 2022.

 

The oil giant said its decision was the result of the technology 'reaching its end of life' as it embarked on concentrating on creating hydrogen refueling sites for larger vehicles rather than passenger cars.

 

Larger vehicles is exactly what McKinsey have said the future of Hydrogen will be who also see it as 'reaching its end of life' for passenger cars.

 

It will be interesting to see the price, current H2 cars are around 65,000 pounds. I wonder who will buy it?  I can see some companies who require their employees to travel frequently might buy it. I don't see the public buying it, the fuel is going to be too expensive.

 

BMW will sell its first hydrogen car from 2028 - and it could have a range of almost 500 MILES and refuel in a matter of minutes (msn.com)

[JonnyF]

44 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

Many governments have set targets, they will all use the stick or the carrot, maybe both.

 

Customers like them because they provide a superior driving experience.

 

If they were better they wouldn't need to subsidize them and restrict supply of the alternative. 

[JBChiangRai]

7 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

 

If they were better they wouldn't need to subsidize them and restrict supply of the alternative. 

 

“We are resolute in our belief that our future is electric,” said Jim Rowan, chief executive of Volvo Cars. “An electric car provides a superior driving experience and increases possibilities for using advanced technologies that improve the overall customer experience."

 

Volvo Cars adjusts electrification ambitions, remains committed to fully electric future - Volvo Cars Global Media Newsroom

Edited September 6 by JBChiangRai
add bold

[Pib]

51 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

The oil giant said its decision was the result of the technology 'reaching its end of life' as it embarked on concentrating on creating hydrogen refueling sites for larger vehicles rather than passenger cars.

 

Larger vehicles is exactly what McKinsey have said the future of Hydrogen will be who also see it as 'reaching its end of life' for passenger cars.

 

 

OMG!!!!.....does this mean the anti-EV YouTube channels will be deleting their videos that proclaim hydrogen-powered passenger cars as the EV Killer.   If so, Mr Toyota and other anti-EV groups are not going to be happy.

 

But if those anti-EV channels start doing more "hybrid is the future" videos then Mr Toyota and other groups should remain happy. 

 

Adding on a "little bit" of supplemental electric power to an ICEV so a HEV badge can be stuck on the vehicle seems to be ICEV industry master plan to slow the march to fully electric for most (not all) passenger vehicles.

 

😀😁😎

 

[JBChiangRai]

That an electric car provides a superior driving experience isn't even debatable. 

[JonnyF]

1 hour ago, JBChiangRai said:

That an electric car provides a superior driving experience isn't even debatable. 

 

Only if you still reminisce about riding the dodgems in the fairground as a child. 

[ElwoodP]

Reported off topic posts removed.

[ExpatOilWorker]

8 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

BMW will sell its first hydrogen car from 2028 in the UK and elsewhere.

 

At present, the UK has just six hydrogen refueling stations.

 

The network has shrunk in recent years, predominantly as a result of Shell closing all three of its UK locations in Cobham, Gatwick and Beaconsfield towards the end of 2022.

 

The oil giant said its decision was the result of the technology 'reaching its end of life' as it embarked on concentrating on creating hydrogen refueling sites for larger vehicles rather than passenger cars.

 

Larger vehicles is exactly what McKinsey have said the future of Hydrogen will be who also see it as 'reaching its end of life' for passenger cars.

 

It will be interesting to see the price, current H2 cars are around 65,000 pounds. I wonder who will buy it?  I can see some companies who require their employees to travel frequently might buy it. I don't see the public buying it, the fuel is going to be too expensive.

 

BMW will sell its first hydrogen car from 2028 - and it could have a range of almost 500 MILES and refuel in a matter of minutes (msn.com)

You will like this...

 

[JBChiangRai]

2 hours ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

You will like this...

 

You are right, I do like it. It’s what I have been saying all along, hydrogen cars are ruinously expensive to run..

 

But I am extremely worried about you, where did this bout of common sense come from.

 

I hope you’re not terminally ill or something, you’re finally posting sensible information, I think you should take two paracetamol and go to bed and where the bit of luck you’ll be back to your usual troll tomorrow morning.

[ExpatOilWorker]

10 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

You are right, I do like it. It’s what I have been saying all along, hydrogen cars are ruinously expensive to run..

 

But I am extremely worried about you, where did this bout of common sense come from.

 

I hope you’re not terminally ill or something, you’re finally posting sensible information, I think you should take two paracetamol and go to bed and where the bit of luck you’ll be back to your usual troll tomorrow morning.

I am doing fine, happy days 😊. 

 

[KhunLA]

3 hours ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

I am doing fine, happy days 😊. 

 

I see your cherries are ripening ... 

6 whole hrs ... try 6 months

 

Edited September 7 by KhunLA

[KhunLA]

8 hours ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

I am doing fine, happy days 😊. 

 

Just a 5 year investment & return averages 39% yearly.   Don't think the stock holders are crying much.

 

[JBChiangRai]

I've put some Thai baht costs on ExpatOilWorker's graphic.

 

The reality is you can probably multiply the Hydrogen figures by at least 1.5, all that Hydrogen production & distribution isn't a charity, they want a profit, and who doesn't think the government will want some tax on it?

 

 

 

[KhunLA]

Just started watching, love his channel, and his #1, pro ... INDEPENDENCE, and the #1 reason for me, having BEVs & Solar.  

 

Performance & savings next, in that order, which I'm sure he'll get to ... now back to vid 😎

 

 

[KhunLA]

33 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Just started watching, love his channel, and his #1, pro ... INDEPENDENCE, and the #1 reason for me, having BEVs & Solar.  

 

Performance & savings next, in that order, which I'm sure he'll get to ... now back to vid 😎

 

 

USA certainly has a few issues when it comes to owning a BEV.  Mind boggling how this 3rd world country seems to be more advanced in that area.

 

Embarrassing actually, for the USA 

[ExpatOilWorker]

[KhunLA]

VW might be going down quicker than I thought.  Now cutting jobs and possibly 2 factories in Germany.   Seems the company shareholders are getting their first, before the ship sinks.

 

Gave themselves dividends of ~€4.5 billion.   While they hope factory & worker cuts will save the company ... wait for it .... ~€4 billion 

Edited September 9 by KhunLA

[KhunLA]

Don't forget ... when the battery warranty expires, the battery of EVs are dead and need to be replaced ... 

 

 

 

 

[ExpatOilWorker]

13 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Don't forget ... when the battery warranty expires, the battery of EVs are dead and need to be replaced ... 

 

 

 

 

The ginger Aussie has zero credibility, he is just a click collecting cherry picker.

[Pib]

20 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Don't forget ... when the battery warranty expires, the battery of EVs are dead and need to be replaced ... 

 

 

 

 

 

Below weblink gives more detail. 

https://interestingengineering.com/innovation/stanfords-ev-battery-magic-more-life

 

On the surface it seems almost too good to be true, but that is what Stanford Linear Accelerator Center engineers came up with and published.   

 

Too bad for the process to work it needs to happen during the factory first charge otherwise I would put a lightning rod on my Atto and park it out in the open during a Thailand thunder & lightning storm.   But I can't take credit for this lightning rod idea as I got the idea from EOW image he post earlier about a super quick charging EV that used the lightning rod method.😜

 

But seriously, a decade (or sooner) from now I'm sure EV batteries will be  have two to three times greater capacity, have lifetimes two to three times longer (like 30 to 50 years), and costing a lot less will be the norm for mass market EVs.

 

 

 

[KhunLA]

Got to love the fake news.   Not a BEV, but a hybrid.

 

Interesting ... what you never see in vids of this incident, the car self extinguishes the fire, within 25 secs.  Car doesn't seem to be going that fast, but it does leave the ground.

 

 

[Pib]

 

Apparently this was a Deepal SL03 (but called a L07 in Thailand)  which is offered in three options: a battery electric vehicle, a series hybrid, and an electric vehicle with a hydrogen electrochemical generator.   Gosh knows which option is shown in the video. 

 

 But something that struck me a week or so ago when first seeing the video was how fast the fire was suppressed on its own and as mentioned by this guy below.  

 

 

 

 

[ExpatOilWorker]

7 hours ago, KhunLA said:

Got to love the fake news.   Not a BEV, but a hybrid.

 

Interesting ... what you never see in vids of this incident, the car self extinguishes the fire, within 25 secs.  Car doesn't seem to be going that fast, but it does leave the ground.

 

 

Wait, what now?

PHEV are not EVs when they burn, but they are EVs when showcasing over inflated sales numbers for EVs.

The EV propaganda machine is getting confused during cherry harvest season or just more desperate to manufacture fake news as EV sales stalls.

[KhunLA]

54 minutes ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

Wait, what now?

PHEV are not EVs when they burn, but they are EVs when showcasing over inflated sales numbers for EVs.

The EV propaganda machine is getting confused during cherry harvest season or just more desperate to manufacture fake news as EV sales stalls.

 

Guess it depends who you talk to.   You apparent didn't understand, or more likely ignored what I stated.  I didn't say anything about it being or not being an EV.

 

But hey, you just make it up along the way.   Whatever fits your spin 

 

8 hours ago, KhunLA said:

Got to love the fake news.   Not a BEV, but a hybrid.

 

Interesting ... what you never see in vids of this incident, the car self extinguishes the fire, within 25 secs.  Car doesn't seem to be going that fast, but it does leave the ground.

 

My personal opinion, if the car can't go 60+ kms on the battery, any battery, then I wouldn't call it an EV.   HEV, where the ICE keeps a battery charged just enough to power an electric motor, is all a bit silly to me.  Not an EV in my opinion.

 

Not even seeing the practicality of  PHEV, unless you live some where's you can't charge on the road.  The redundancy is silly, expensive, and prone to more break downs or maintenance issues.

Edited Wednesday at 09:30 AM by KhunLA