ICE vs EV, the debate thread

[KhunLA]

1 hour ago, Yellowtail said:

 

A perfect example of "stage one thinking". 

 

hmm...

Stage (step) 1 ... Google, I'll get back to you ... 🤣

 

I'm back ...

Asked & answered ... again ... yes.

... yes, considerably less 'low level' air pollution.   The only air pollution I care about.   

 

Stage 2 ... Will more air pollution be produced to generated more energy for the EV  ... not really, as TH uses natural gas, mostly.  

 

Not sure what else you're implying, or I'm suppose to realize, but surely the amount of air pollution from ICEVs, is more than any generated in future production of EV and or their batteries here in TH.   

 

Also consider, TH doesn't have to continue generating energy from fossil fuels, and no reason why, as they faze out ICEVs, they can't faze in, solar on every freakin' rooftop.   It is the tropic.

 

Guess that's using too much common sense, but hey, that's just me 😎

 

[Yellowtail]

27 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

hmm...

Stage (step) 1 ... Google, I'll get back to you ... 🤣

 

I'm back ...

Asked & answered ... again ... yes.

... yes, considerably less 'low level' air pollution.   The only air pollution I care about.   

 

Stage 2 ... Will more air pollution be produced to generated more energy for the EV  ... not really, as TH uses natural gas, mostly.  

 

Not sure what else you're implying, or I'm suppose to realize, but surely the amount of air pollution from ICEVs, is more than any generated in future production of EV and or their batteries here in TH.   

 

Also consider, TH doesn't have to continue generating energy from fossil fuels, and no reason why, as they faze out ICEVs, they can't faze in, solar on every freakin' rooftop.   It is the tropic.

 

Guess that's using too much common sense, but hey, that's just me 😎

 

And batteries at night? 

 

And a condo building with 500 units and 400 m^2 of roof? 

 

You guys crack me up. 

[KhunLA]

8 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

And batteries at night? 

 

And a condo building with 500 units and 400 m^2 of roof? 

 

You guys crack me up. 

Obviously we're not suggesting to scrap the grid produced electric, as that's basically impossible ...

... at present.

 

Seriously, any and all rooftops should have solar.  Our system could easily supply 1 or even 3 more houses when the sun is out.   Or more, if people are working and just the basics need to be on.

 

Daytime grid production needs could be cut in half, since most aren't even home.

[Yellowtail]

5 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Obviously we're not suggesting to scrap the grid produced electric, as that's basically impossible ...

... at present.

 

Seriously, any and all rooftops should have solar.  Our system could easily supply 1 or even 3 more houses when the sun is out.   Or more, if people are working and just the basics need to be on.

 

Daytime grid production needs could be cut in half, since most aren't even home.

And grid use doubles at night with everyone charging their cars after work? 

 

I think EVs are great, particularly for a retired guy living in the sticks that chargers during the day, but thinking they are a the be-all-end-all is a little silly. 

[Elkski]

On 11/7/2023 at 6:39 PM, Gweiloman said:

I work outdoors so very often, I sit in my car with the aircon on to cool down or to have my lunch on the go. I also have those mini car fans to help cool down faster. No one complains as no fumes are being emitted. I would never go that in my diesel work truck.

I find this ironic.  When people are bashing people on neighborhood social groups who leave ICE idling and some cities ban idling  how do we justify using aircons in EVs  at a standstill.  How do we know yiu charged up with yiur own solar vs a CO2 belching power plant?  

 

Wow, almost 40 pages and KhunLA still preaching. 

[JBChiangRai]

1 hour ago, Yellowtail said:

And grid use doubles at night with everyone charging their cars after work? 

 

I think EVs are great, particularly for a retired guy living in the sticks that chargers during the day, but thinking they are a the be-all-end-all is a little silly. 

Isn’t it time for you to get back under your bridge?

[GroveHillWanderer]

On 11/8/2023 at 1:55 AM, Longwood50 said:

The study from the Texas Public Policy Foundation (TPPF) found, for example, that the average 2021 electric vehicle “would cost $48,698 more to own over a 10-year period without $22 billion in government favors given to EV manufacturers and owners.” https://t.co/bu1hwp7Sma

— Bud Brigham (@bmbrigham) October 27, 2023

 

The study found that the only thing making electric vehicles cheaper to run than traditional gasoline cars is a "wide array of direct subsidies, regulatory credits, and subsidized infrastructure that contribute to the economic viability of EVs."

 

“Adding the costs of the subsidies to the true cost of fueling an EV would equate to an EV owner paying $17.33 per gallon of gasoline," the report stated. "And these estimates do not include the hundreds of billions more in subsidies in the Inflation Reduction Act."

EV's  A solution that doesn't work for a problem that doesn't exist. 

The Texas Public Policy Foundation isn't exactly an unbiased source though, is it?

 

Its funding and its board members basically come from a cabal of oil industry executives and GOP activists. Some of its top sources of funds are Chevron, Exxon Mobil and various other fossil fuel industry interests.

 

As one of its critics told the Texas Observer, "Most think tanks work for their funders and TPPF's donors

are a Who's Who of Texas polluters, giant utilities and big insurance companies. TPPF is thinking the way its donors want it to think."

 

The Texas Public Policy Foundation

 

You can pretty much see where they stand on the ICE vs EV debate from the fact that one of their stated goals is to "explain the forgotten moral case for fossil fuels" by rejecting the scientific consensus on climate change.

 

One of their best known representatives, Kathleen Hartnett-White, who was appointed by Trump to his administration's Council on Environmental Quality, doesn't even believe carbon dioxide poses any environmental risk. According to her, carbon dioxide is “an odorless, invisible, beneficial, and natural gas.”

 

Trump taps climate skeptic for top White House environmental post

[Yellowtail]

11 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

Isn’t it time for you to get back under your bridge?

Is that all you have, really? 

 

Weak

[JBChiangRai]

4 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Is that all you have, really? 

 

Weak

 

Predictable, it's what you always do, yawn.

[Yellowtail]

7 hours ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

The Texas Public Policy Foundation isn't exactly an unbiased source though, is it?

No, clearly the only unbiased outlets for Infromation are on the left. 

7 hours ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

 

Its funding and its board members basically come from a cabal of oil industry executives and GOP activists. Some of its top sources of funds are Chevron, Exxon Mobil and various other fossil fuel industry interests.

 

As one of its critics told the Texas Observer, "Most think tanks work for their funders and TPPF's donors

are a Who's Who of Texas polluters, giant utilities and big insurance companies. TPPF is thinking the way its donors want it to think."

 

The Texas Public Policy Foundation

 

You can pretty much see where they stand on the ICE vs EV debate from the fact that one of their stated goals is to "explain the forgotten moral case for fossil fuels" by rejecting the scientific consensus on climate change.

 

One of their best known representatives, Kathleen Hartnett-White, who was appointed by Trump to his administration's Council on Environmental Quality, doesn't even believe carbon dioxide poses any environmental risk. According to her, carbon dioxide is “an odorless, invisible, beneficial, and natural gas.”

 

Trump taps climate skeptic for top White House environmental post

 

You (like @JBChiangRai) cannot actually address what is said, so you attack the people saying it. 

 

Just post google-up a few headlines and post links to stuff you haven't read, thinking it somehow disproves something else you haven't read. 

[JBChiangRai]

2 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

No, clearly the only unbiased outlets for Infromation are on the left. 

 

You (like @JBChiangRai) cannot actually address what is said, so you attack the people saying it. 

 

Just post google-up a few headlines and post links to stuff you haven't read, thinking it somehow disproves something else you haven't read. 

 

I smell something burning, are you trying to think again?

 

Find another thread to troll.

[Gweiloman]

12 hours ago, Elkski said:

I find this ironic.  When people are bashing people on neighborhood social groups who leave ICE idling and some cities ban idling  how do we justify using aircons in EVs  at a standstill.  How do we know yiu charged up with yiur own solar vs a CO2 belching power plant?  

 

Wow, almost 40 pages and KhunLA still preaching. 

I find your post extremely puzzling, to say the least. Anyone sitting and idling extensively in their ICEV, unless at a traffic light should be rightly criticised. The fumes generated are toxic and extremely unpleasant to smell and in some cases can even be fatal. 
 

What difference does it make when I’m using aircon, powered by electricity, whether I’m in my EV or at home? Are you advocating a ban on using electricity generated by coal powered plants?

[KhunLA]

13 hours ago, Elkski said:

Wow, almost 40 pages and KhunLA still preaching. 

 

[Yellowtail]

8 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

Predictable, it's what you always do, yawn.

 

Oh, predictable like when you get called out for making false, unsupported claims, then because you are unable to formulate a coherent response, you spew childish personal attacks. That kind of predictable, yes?  

 

Carry on lefty.

[JBChiangRai]

13 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

 

Oh, predictable like when you get called out for making false, unsupported claims, then because you are unable to formulate a coherent response, you spew childish personal attacks. That kind of predictable, yes?  

 

Carry on lefty.

 

If you mean "lefty" as having leftish socialist political leanings, you couldn't be further from the truth.  I'm an out & out capitalist.  If you meant left-handed, then well done, you got that right.

[Yellowtail]

1 hour ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

If you mean "lefty" as having leftish socialist political leanings, you couldn't be further from the truth.  I'm an out & out capitalist.  If you meant left-handed, then well done, you got that right.

A capitalist that believes there would be no art galleries, universities or museums without government subsidies, got it. 

 

 

[JBChiangRai]

12 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

A capitalist that believes there would be no art galleries, universities or museums without government subsidies, got it. 

 

 

I guess you believe in stereotypes?

[Yellowtail]

1 hour ago, JBChiangRai said:

I guess you believe in stereotypes?

I guess you believe in Marxism? 

[JBChiangRai]

12 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

I guess you believe in Marxism? 

 

Do many capitalists believe in Marxism? Do any?

[KhunLA]

15 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

Do many capitalists believe in Marxism? Do any?

I doubt if many people even know what Marxism is.   Since I didn't study it, I certainly didn't.  Reading Wiki and you get the puppeteer spin that it doesn't really exist today ...

 

... "As Marxism has developed over time into various branches and schools of thought, no single, definitive Marxist theory exists."

 

Then shows example of, contradicting itself, showing it certainly does exist today, with most of the world reaching it's final stage ...

 

... "Marx considered recurring class conflicts as the driving force of human history as such conflicts have manifested as distinct transitional stages of development in Western Europe. Accordingly, Marx designated human history as encompassing four stages of development in relations of production:

1. Primitive communism: cooperative tribal societies.

2. Slave society: development of tribal to city-state in which aristocracy is born.

3. Feudalism: aristocrats are the ruling class, while merchants evolve into the bourgeoisie.

4. Capitalism: capitalists are the ruling class who create and employ the proletariat."

 

 

[Yellowtail]

47 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

Do many capitalists believe in Marxism? Do any?

Do many capitalists believe in Marxism in what way? 

[JBChiangRai]

26 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Do many capitalists believe in Marxism in what way? 

 

In every way

[Yellowtail]

10 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

In every way

yawn, you're nothing if not predictable. 

[JBChiangRai]

2 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

yawn, you're nothing if not predictable. 

 

Copycat

[Yellowtail]

3 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

Copycat

I know you are but what am I? 

[JBChiangRai]

Just now, Yellowtail said:

I know you are but what am I? 

 

Entertaining

[KhunLA]

Pee Wee Herman is coming to mind ...

 

 

[Yellowtail]

11 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

Entertaining

I'm rubber, you're glue, what you say bounces off me and sticks to you. 

[JBChiangRai]

9 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

I'm rubber, you're glue, what you say bounces off me and sticks to you. 

 

Did you think of that all on your own?

[Yellowtail]

42 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

Did you think of that all on your own?

No