ICE vs EV, the debate thread

[JBChiangRai]

Here is a likable Yellowtail in my bedroom.

 

 

[Yellowtail]

40 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

Here is a likable Yellowtail in my bedroom.

 

 

 

That's a nice tabby, not a yellowtail. 

 

This is a yellowtail:

[JBChiangRai]

Your avatar suggests differently.

 

Though your more like Dibble.

[connda]

The Anti-China expats will be pissing themselves now.
In the meanwhile capitists who envisions themselves exploiting the EV markets with expensive EV are screaming bloody murder that Chinese "over-supply" is driving down the cost of EVs.
I find this hysterical.  The US subsidized EVs to make the overpriced batteries on wheels more affordable.  Thailand and China subsidize EV to make them affordable to the masses and the "not-so-free-market" West has a hissy fit.  Imho - good from them.  If the Greenies want to put their money where their mouths are, then EV prices need to plummet to the point where they push ICE vehicles out of the market - which is the point of Net Zero.  The only difference is the West wants to impoverish their own citizens in the process.  Here in the nascent rising BRICS nations?  Their government want to pull their populations spending power up so that they have consumers in the market to which they can sell at affordable prices.

Thai subsidies for Chinese EV makers wreak havoc on auto sector
https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Automobiles/Electric-vehicles/Thai-subsidies-for-Chinese-EV-makers-wreak-havoc-on-auto-sector

[JBChiangRai]

1 minute ago, connda said:

The Anti-China expats will be pissing themselves now.

Thai subsidies for Chinese EV makers wreak havoc on auto sector
https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Automobiles/Electric-vehicles/Thai-subsidies-for-Chinese-EV-makers-wreak-havoc-on-auto-sector

 

That has already been debunked on another thread.

 

Nikkei Asia withdrew the statistics they quoted.

[connda]

7 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

That has already been debunked on another thread.

 

Nikkei Asia withdrew the statistics they quoted.

Source or it's BS.

[JBChiangRai]

5 minutes ago, connda said:

Source or it's BS.

 

Thanks to @mistral53 another fake news (above) has been debunked.

 

His post below

 

Nikkei Asia is jumping on the bandwagon of China EV bashing with a very low rent hit piece that is full of fake news - to wit, they claim there are 490,000 unsold Chines EVs in Thailand, which is basically forcing the Japanese car manufacturers to shut down their factories here.

 

From  Electric Vehicle Association of Thailand - EVAT:

 

'Been in the auto industry for over 23 years, countless interviews in the media, but never has the information been so distorted by Nikkei news.
“Thailand now has 490,000 unsold EVs, according to the Electric Vehicle Association of Thailand (EVAT), equivalent to 63% of all vehicles the country turned out in the past 12 months.“
I want to clarify that the above information is not from me and the Thai Electric Motor Association สมาคมยานยนต์ไฟฟ้าไทย Electric Vehicle Association of Thailand - EVAT The number of 490,000 cars. I'm referring to the production capacity forecast of 7 electric car companies that enter EV 3.0 and it has nothing to do with the unsold electric car numbers. But NIKEI News Agency provides information that distorts reality differently.
Note: Last year, Thailand registered electric cars for the whole year about 76,000 cars and electric car registrations accumulated at the end of May. 2567 around 121,000 cars. How can we have more than 490,000 electric cars stock?'

 

 

https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Automobiles/Electric-vehicles/Thai-subsidies-for-Chinese-EV-makers-wreak-havoc-on-auto-sector

 

edit: It appears Nikkei Asia just modified their original (dated July 26) and removed the 490,000 unsold EVs......... took them 2 days, their intentions seems obvious!

 

The statement is on their Facebook OFFICIAL page, made by them, not a member of the public.  https://www.facebook.com/EVAT2015

[KhunLA]

https://www.facebook.com/reel/472335898766660

 

https://microlino-car.com/en-ch/microlino

 

[Pib]

On 7/29/2024 at 8:39 AM, Gweiloman said:

 

 

Thanks for the info.  Today I was able to confirm a mid August  appointment with my nearby BYD dealership here in Bangkok to have Rat Guard installed on my Atto...no charge.    It's a 1pm appointment and I expect they will tell me to come back around 3:00 to 4:30pm since they close at 5pm and the mimumun appointment window covers a 2 hour time frame even for a simple task that might only take 15 minutes. 

 

Now I haven't seen a rat/mouse aroiund my house here in Bangkok for around 5 years"....ever since several stray cats decided to visit our home daily several times a day since the wife puts some food out for them.  Now before the cats started standing guard around my house I would see a rat/mouse running around the yard every week or two....and at one time for a few months some rats got into the house attic and you could hear them running around at night, but some glue traps got rid of them (caught 3 big ones over a few weeks)...no more noises from attic. 

 

But since the Rat Guard installation is free....why not have it installed.  I'm fairly sure this explains/confirms some maintenance I saw at my BYD dealership several weeks ago when I looked in their maintenance bay briefly and saw a technician with a respirator mask on and spraying stuff from a paint gun under the car.  The car was up on the lift and he was spraying a pretty clear mist back around the rear axle area and battery.   I only watched him do this for about 5 seconds as I walked by the maintenance bay and could easily see it.  I expect he could have very well be spraying the Rat Guard stuff....at that time I didn't even realized the Rat Guard service was available/even existed. 

 

Yea, big thanks for the Rat Guard for Atto and Dolphin crossfeed.

[JBChiangRai]

4 minutes ago, Pib said:

 

Thanks for the info.  Today I was able to confirm a mid August  appointment with my nearby BYD dealership here in Bangkok to have Rat Guard installed on my Atto...no charge.    It's a 1pm appointment and I expect they will tell me to come back around 3:00 to 4:30pm since they close at 5pm and the mimumun appointment window covers a 2 hour time frame even for a simple task that might only take 15 minutes. 

 

Now I haven't seen a rat/mouse aroiund my house here in Bangkok for around 5 years"....ever since several stray cats decided to visit our home daily several times a day since the wife puts some food out for them.  Now before the cats started standing guard around my house I would see a rat/mouse running around the yard every week or two....and at one time for a few months some rats got into the house attic and you could hear them running around at night, but some glue traps got rid of them (caught 3 big ones over a few weeks)...no more noises from attic. 

 

But since the Rat Guard installation is free....why not have it installed.  I'm fairly sure this explains/confirms some maintenance I saw at my BYD dealership several weeks ago when I looked in their maintenance bay briefly and saw a technician with a respirator mask on and spraying stuff from a paint gun under the car.  The car was up on the lift and he was spraying a pretty clear mist back around the rear axle area and battery.   I only watched him do this for about 5 seconds as I walked by the maintenance bay and could easily see it.  I expect he could have very well be spraying the Rat Guard stuff....at that time I didn't even realized the Rat Guard service was available/even existed. 

 

Yea, big thanks for the Rat Guard for Atto and Dolphin crossfeed.

 

Is it available for the Seal?

[Yellowtail]

4 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

Is it available for the Seal?

I've seen Seals demolish 100lb tuna and 200lb blue sharks, hard to imagine a rat hurting it. 

[Pib]

Just now, JBChiangRai said:

 

Is it available for the Seal?

The video says it's for the Atto and Dolphin...probably due to those models having a traction battery "top" cover that is fiber materials....but bottom cover is metal.

 

I think the Seal battery has a metal cover for top and bottom...critters can't chew thru. 

 

Now of course all cars, ICEV and EV, have wires running everwhere but I think the BYD Rat Guard is focused on protecting the fiber cover that critters have chewed on for some Atto and Dolphin owners.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 5/16/2024 at 12:52 PM, josephbloggs said:

"Aside from Tesla, only Mercedes and BMW have EV production forecasts that align with the IEA’s updated 1.5°C scenario which requires 66% of all new car sales to be EVs by 2030.".

Volvo will be 50% fully electric by end of 2025 and 100% electric by 2030.  I am sure there are others too - pretty sure Audi have a similar target.

Peasants like myself don't buy any of those cars. I'm sure anyone that can afford to buy one will not be worrying about second hand cars needing a new battery.

[thaibeachlovers]

14 hours ago, KhunLA said:

https://www.facebook.com/reel/472335898766660

 

https://microlino-car.com/en-ch/microlino

 

Back to the past then? There was a little ICE car that looked exactly like that when I was a kid. I think it was German

[vinny41]

Mercedes-Benz slows battery plans amid lower EV demand

But with EV demand lower than many automakers had forecast, Mercedes-Benz said earlier this year it did not expect sales of electrified vehicles, including hybrids, to reach up to 50% of the total until 2030 - five years later than its previous forecast of 2025.

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/mercedes-benz-opens-battery-research-production-centre-stuttgart-headquarters-2024-07-08/

[josephbloggs]

4 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Back to the past then? There was a little ICE car that looked exactly like that when I was a kid. I think it was German

BMW Isetta

 

[thaibeachlovers]

54 minutes ago, Pib said:

Atto and Dolphin

Are they really calling cars with names like that? .

 

Doesn't exactly have the charisma of Charger, Challenger, Mustang, Spyder etc, does it?

When did the human race become so pussified? Meow.

[thaibeachlovers]

3 minutes ago, josephbloggs said:

BMW Isetta

 

That's the one, thanks.

There was also a slightly larger one, the 1955 Messerschmitt, but I never saw one of those in NZ.

[Yellowtail]

1 minute ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Are they really calling cars with names like that? .

 

Doesn't exactly have the charisma of Charger, Challenger, Mustang, Spyder etc, does it?

When did the human race become so pussified? Meow.

Yeah, used to be Stingrays, Marlin, Barracuda and whatnot

[Pib]

58 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Are they really calling cars with names like that? .

 

Doesn't exactly have the charisma of Charger, Challenger, Mustang, Spyder etc, does it?

When did the human race become so pussified? Meow.

 

Oh, the American muscle car names and days...a time gone by but the names are still copyrighted preventing their use by other car manufactuers. 

 

BYD seems to like names that imply "quickness...sleekness' along with liking aquatic type critters that bring forth an image of being sleek & fast under water like a Dolphin or Seal.  And for the Atto see below.

 

[Pib]

2 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

Is it available for the Seal?

 

2 hours ago, Pib said:

The video says it's for the Atto and Dolphin...probably due to those models having a traction battery "top" cover that is fiber materials....but bottom cover is metal.

 

I think the Seal battery has a metal cover for top and bottom...critters can't chew thru. 

 

Now of course all cars, ICEV and EV, have wires running everwhere but I think the BYD Rat Guard is focused on protecting the fiber cover that critters have chewed on for some Atto and Dolphin owners.

 

I can now confirm it's "not" for the Seal. 

 

Just a few minutes ago another BYD dealership near me called me regarding making an appointment for Rat Guard installation on my Atto....I had messaged them on LINE yesterday.   He was calling to offer me an appointment for Rat Guard installtion.     I told him I had just a few hours earlier made an appointment at another BYD dealership.  I thanked him for calling as he was ready to provide an appointment date...it was going to be one day later than the appointment I made at the other dealership.

 

I then asked him a few questions about Rat Guard.  It's a free installation for the Dolphin & Atto only to predominately add protection for the upper "fiber" cover of the traction battery....basically sparying on that chemical and adding some alumimum corner protectors on the fiber cover.  The rep said Rat Guard does not apply to the Seal since the Seal has an aluminum upper cover vs fiber cover like the Atto/Dolphin.

 

 

 

[Pib]

This lady nicknamed Cherry has an Atto she bought 7 May 2023 and now has over 40,000Km on it.  She did a video on 14 July 2024 regarding the 40,000Km checkup.    She done other Atto videos like her 5,000Km checkup on 13 May 2023 and 20,000Km checkup on 25 Oct 2024.   She also did "a really good and detailed video" on the home wallcharger installation/costs dated 24 Mar 2023.

 

Anyway, here is her video on Rat Guard installation she had done on her Atto on 23 June 2024 where you can see what is done during the first 2 minutes of the 4 minute video.  The last half of the video is just her waiting around in the dealership lounge snacking on food and giving out information in Thai.  Her video's are in Thai but usually provides a lot of "pictures" which greatly helps to explain....you know the ol' saying, "a picture can be worth a 1000 words."

 

 

 

[vinny41]

1 hour ago, Pib said:

 

 

I can now confirm it's "not" for the Seal. 

 

Just a few minutes ago another BYD dealership near me called me regarding making an appointment for Rat Guard installation on my Atto....I had messaged them on LINE yesterday.   He was calling to offer me an appointment for Rat Guard installtion.     I told him I had just a few hours earlier made an appointment at another BYD dealership.  I thanked him for calling as he was ready to provide an appointment date...it was going to be one day later than the appointment I made at the other dealership.

 

I then asked him a few questions about Rat Guard.  It's a free installation for the Dolphin & Atto only to predominately add protection for the upper "fiber" cover of the traction battery....basically sparying on that chemical and adding some alumimum corner protectors on the fiber cover.  The rep said Rat Guard does not apply to the Seal since the Seal has an aluminum upper cover vs fiber cover like the Atto/Dolphin.

 

 

 

When you say fiber there are other brands that have fiber covers and they aren't eaten by rats

all the facebook groups refer to the atto3 and Dolphin as having plastic covers and that Byd is the only brand that has decided to use plastic

cover in this video looks like plastic to me

 

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, Pib said:

 

Oh, the American muscle car names and days...a time gone by but the names are still copyrighted preventing their use by other car manufactuers. 

 

BYD seems to like names that imply "quickness...sleekness' along with liking aquatic type critters that bring forth an image of being sleek & fast under water like a Dolphin or Seal.  And for the Atto see below.

 

Fair enough, but how many normal people know what an Atto is.

 

I miss the days of American muscle cars. I didn't drive one myself, but at least cars looked different back then. In these days of computer designed cars the only difference is the badge and the number of led lights they can cram onto the car.

 

Drive up in a E Type Jag and every boy in the area would be crowded around to look at it. Drive up in a "Dolphin" and be completely ignored by everyone, yawn.

[thaibeachlovers]

22 minutes ago, Pib said:

This lady nicknamed Cherry has an Atto she bought 7 May 2023 and now has over 40,000Km on it.  She did a video on 14 July 2024 regarding the 40,000Km checkup.    She done other Atto videos like her 5,000Km checkup on 13 May 2023 and 20,000Km checkup on 25 Oct 2024.   She also did "a really good and detailed video" on the home wallcharger installation/costs dated 24 Mar 2023.

 

Anyway, here is her video on Rat Guard installation she had done on her Atto on 23 June 2024 where you can see what is done during the first 2 minutes of the 4 minute video.  The last half of the video is just her waiting around in the dealership lounge snacking on food and giving out information in Thai.  Her video's are in Thai but usually provides a lot of "pictures" which greatly helps to explain....you know the ol' saying, "a picture can be worth a 1000 words."

 

 

 

Social media is a crime against humanity IMO. If anyone actually watches a vdo of someone having a snack in a waiting room they should be sent to the naughty step without supper.

The barbarians are at the gates and it's all over bar the shouting, IMO.

[Pib]

10 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

When you say fiber there are other brands that have fiber covers and they aren't eaten by rats

all the facebook groups refer to the atto3 and Dolphin as having plastic covers and that Byd is the only brand that has decided to use plastic

cover in this video looks like plastic to me

Fiber, plastic, polymer,  PVC, HDPE, etc....what the cover's exact composition is I can't say....it's some type of material that is not metal.   Rats/mice will pretty much chew on anything that is not metal.  

[Pib]

13 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Social media is a crime against humanity IMO.

Then you need to stop viewing/using AseanNow, Facebook, Youtube, etc., to avoid being a crimmial.  

[vinny41]

1 minute ago, Pib said:

Fiber, plastic, polymer,  PVC, HDPE, etc....what the cover's exact composition is I can't say....it's some type of material that is not metal.   Rats/mice will pretty much chew on anything that is not metal.  

Here is a site that has pictures of the battery covers 

Majority of brands use steel with the exception of byd using plastic and Ora good cat using carbon fiber which I understand is expensive

https://droidsans.com/ev-car-battery-cap-issue/

https://www.tchaintech.com/TH/NDETAIL/the_differences_between_carbon_fiber_and_steel

 

[Yellowtail]

41 minutes ago, Pib said:

This lady nicknamed Cherry has an Atto she bought 7 May 2023 and now has over 40,000Km on it.  She did a video on 14 July 2024 regarding the 40,000Km checkup.    She done other Atto videos like her 5,000Km checkup on 13 May 2023 and 20,000Km checkup on 25 Oct 2024.   She also did "a really good and detailed video" on the home wallcharger installation/costs dated 24 Mar 2023.

 

Anyway, here is her video on Rat Guard installation she had done on her Atto on 23 June 2024 where you can see what is done during the first 2 minutes of the 4 minute video.  The last half of the video is just her waiting around in the dealership lounge snacking on food and giving out information in Thai.  Her video's are in Thai but usually provides a lot of "pictures" which greatly helps to explain....you know the ol' saying, "a picture can be worth a 1000 words."

 

 

 

Does she take her top off? She has a kind mouth...

[KhunLA]

  

SAIC's MG division last year, apparently doing quite well also, though BYD has taken a bit out of that lately.