The Silent, Vaccinated, Impatient Majority

[Chomper Higgot]

6 minutes ago, JustAnotherHun said:

And what's a credible source decides who? It must be you, I guess

Not at all.

 

A peer reviewed medical or scientific journal would do nicely.

 

 

[Stubby]

On 1/18/2022 at 8:18 AM, Chomper Higgot said:

The unvaccinated are significantly more likely to become seriously ill, hospitalized or die.

Do you mean the TINY MINORITY of high-risk unvaccinated folks with underlying HEALTH conditions are significantly more likely to become seriously ill, hospitalized, or die? Or, are you suggesting that anyone... whatever their age, weight, physical condition, and health status... are significantly more likely to become seriously ill, hospitalized, or die if they're unvaccinated? I've never quite understood the broad use of "The Unvaccinated," so I'm open to being educated.  

Thank you.

[Mac Mickmanus]

12 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Provide links and we’ll see where you are getting your ‘claims’ from.

My link has already been labeled as being fake news , no point in posting it as its already been judged as being fake 

[Scott]

A post with false or misleading information and troll posts reported and removed.   

 

[JustAnotherHun]

CDC, January 28, 2022

 

Quote

Before Delta became the predominant variant in June, case rates were higher among persons who survived a previous infection than persons who were vaccinated alone. By early October, persons who survived a previous infection had lower case rates than persons who were vaccinated alone.

 

Edited February 2, 2022 by JustAnotherHun

[ozimoron]

*Deleted post edited out*

 

Well, if you want to risk waiting till you get natural immunity, go right ahead. I'm triple vaccinated now with AZ, Pfizer and Moderna. This week I got notifications on my check in app from virtually everywhere I checked in last week. Tonight I tested negative on a saliva RAT test.

Edited February 2, 2022 by Scott

[Mac Mickmanus]

13 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

Well, if you want to risk waiting till you get natural immunity, go right ahead. I'm triple vaccinated now with AZ, Pfizer and Moderna. This week I got notifications on my check in app from virtually everywhere I checked in last week. Tonight I tested negative on a saliva RAT test.

I have had no vaccines and haven't yet been tested at all.

When is your next booster due ?

[ozimoron]

Just now, Mac Mickmanus said:

I have had no vaccines and haven't yet been tested at all.

When is your next booster due ?

I guess when there is an omicron specific vaccine available, otherwise I'm fully vacinated now. I do understand that protection against infection may wane but protection against serious illness remains largely intact. That's the main metric as far as I'm concerned.

 

"Protection against infection and death during the Delta-predominant period and against infection during Omicron emergence were higher among booster vaccine dose recipients, especially among persons aged 50–64 and ≥65 years."

 

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7104e2.htm

[Mac Mickmanus]

1 hour ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

My link has already been labeled as being fake news , no point in posting it as its already been judged as being fake 

Hey Chomper, you laughed at that post .

Maybe do haven't yet scrolled down/up to where I posted the report .

You will stop laughing when you read the report .

Go on, give this post a laugh as well 

[Chomper Higgot]

44 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

!Dr. Benjamin Silk of the CDC told the media last week, “Before the Delta variant, COVID-19 vaccination resulted in better protection against a subsequent infection than surviving a previous infection.”

“When looking at the summer and the fall of 2021, when Delta became the dominant in this country, however, surviving a previous infection now provided greater protection against subsequent infection than vaccination,” he added."

 

 

https://www.clarkcountytoday.com/news/natural-immunity-gets-another-boost-from-two-new-u-s-studies/

 

 

From your hypertext link above:

 

"Although the epidemiology of COVID-19 might change as new variants emerge, vaccination remains the safest strategy for averting future SARS-CoV-2 infections, hospitalizations, long-term sequelae, and death,"

[ozimoron]

“This is the figure people need to understand – the unvaccinated population only makes up about 8 per cent of all eligible Queenslanders, but currently they’re making up between 20 and 30 per cent of our deaths.

 

https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/national/queensland/minister-slams-misinformation-on-unvaccinated-covid-19-deaths-20220128-p59s1t.html

[Scott]

Off-topic, troll posts and replies removed.  Please keep it civil.

 

[Chomper Higgot]

2 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Hey Chomper, you laughed at that post .

Maybe do haven't yet scrolled down/up to where I posted the report .

You will stop laughing when you read the report .

Go on, give this post a laugh as well 

I’m still laughing at this, from your linked report:

 

previous SARS-CoV-2 infection also confers protection against severe outcomes in the event of reinfection.” 

 

Which ignores the fact that the first infection comes with a significant risk of severe outcomes.

 

[ozimoron]

For the unvaccinated, the situation is very different. Omicron is still severe enough that it will lead to debilitating illness and death for many unvaccinated people.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/11/briefing/omicron-deaths-vaccinated-vs-unvaccinated.html

 

 

[Scott]

53 minutes ago, JustAnotherHun said:

CDC, January 28, 2022

Before Delta became the predominant variant in June, case rates were higher among persons who survived a previous infection than persons who were vaccinated alone. By early October, persons who survived a previous infection had lower case rates than persons who were vaccinated alone.

 

I think it's important to understand that the small differences may occur for a reason.  First, this looks at those that survived an infection and those are usually people who are younger and healthier than those who did not survive an infection.  

 

The difference in the rates is small.  There is no doubt that having been infected and surviving (without a lot of complications) does confer immunity.  Many places treat a verified previous infection in the same way they do a vaccinated person.   

 

Natural immunity fades the same way as antibodies from vaccinated people.  

[ozimoron]

The simple numbers every government should use to fight anti-vaccine misinformation

 

https://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/ng-interactive/2022/jan/28/the-simple-numbers-every-government-should-use-to-fight-anti-vaccine-misinformation

[Mac Mickmanus]

9 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I’m still laughing at this, from your linked report:

 

 

You keep laughing at my posts , its becoming rather rude .

Either stop laughing at my posts or don't talk to me anymore 

Fair enough ?

[Scott]

A post has been removed which claims to come from a source but the quote is not there.  Continue to make false claims and you will receive a suspension.   

 

[cdemundo]

15 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I didn't refuse pfizer because of misinformation, whatever that may be, but from what I researched on reputable sites about side effects. To be clear, side effects are real, and factual.

and vanishingly rare; especially when compared with the risks of COVID disease.

Edited February 2, 2022 by cdemundo

[cdemundo]

6 hours ago, Stubby said:

Do you mean the TINY MINORITY of high-risk unvaccinated folks with underlying HEALTH conditions are significantly more likely to become seriously ill, hospitalized, or die? Or, are you suggesting that anyone... whatever their age, weight, physical condition, and health status... are significantly more likely to become seriously ill, hospitalized, or die if they're unvaccinated? I've never quite understood the broad use of "The Unvaccinated," so I'm open to being educated.  

Thank you.

Take a look at Herman Cain Awards on reddit.

There you can see that the young, healthy, with strong immune systems catch COVID and go to the hospital and often die.

It's the numerator, not the denominator, if 1/1000 or 1/1,000,000 if you are the 1....

[Scott]

7 hours ago, Stubby said:

Do you mean the TINY MINORITY of high-risk unvaccinated folks with underlying HEALTH conditions are significantly more likely to become seriously ill, hospitalized, or die? Or, are you suggesting that anyone... whatever their age, weight, physical condition, and health status... are significantly more likely to become seriously ill, hospitalized, or die if they're unvaccinated? I've never quite understood the broad use of "The Unvaccinated," so I'm open to being educated.  

Thank you.

The risks are considerably greater for the unvaccinated should they get infected.   People who report adverse effects are most likely at a much greater risk for the same adverse effects from an actual infection.  In other words, if you get a mild, short-lived heart inflammation known as Myocarditis from the shot, you most likely would get a much worse case from an actual infection.   The same goes for most of the adverse reactions.   In fact, the unvaccinated are 37 times more likely to get Myocarditis than the vaccinated.

 

Those with healthy immune systems and no serious health issues have also gotten seriously ill and died.  Covid is well known for causing Hypercytokinemia, also known as a cytokine storm.   Cytokines are the cells that help control the various responses to the infection including inflammation and blood clotting.  When they over-react, then some nasty things happen.  This is the reason that so many people died.  The lungs experienced too much inflammation, fill with fluid and patients ended up on a ventilator.   This isn't caused by the virus; it's caused by our own immune system.   

 

When you are vaccinated, you may get an extremely mild reaction, but that is indicative of what an actual infection would produce, only much, much more severe.   

 

In spite of the advances in treating Covid, we still have not made significant inroads into ways of controlling a cytokine storm.  Cytokine storms are a big factor in causing serious illness and death.

[Jeffr2]

7 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

I have had no vaccines and haven't yet been tested at all.

When is your next booster due ?

Stay home then.  Luckily, the unvaxxed's world is getting smaller and smaller every day.

 

My next booster is when my doctor suggest.  I don't do my own research.

[Jeffr2]

7 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

From your hypertext link above:

 

"Although the epidemiology of COVID-19 might change as new variants emerge, vaccination remains the safest strategy for averting future SARS-CoV-2 infections, hospitalizations, long-term sequelae, and death,"

That article is super dodgy and basically an opinion piece improperly referencing CDC data.  It's quoting The Daily Sceptic.  Run by a guy fired from Cambridge for misinformation.  Typical anti vaxxers would gravitate towards articles by this person.

[thaibeachlovers]

3 hours ago, cdemundo said:

and vanishingly rare; especially when compared with the risks of COVID disease.

Only if one that wasn't affected by bad side effects, like the guy I know.

 

What % of the 8 billion people on the planet are are getting sick enough with covid to go to hospital, and of them what % are dying OF covid, NOT WITH?

[thaibeachlovers]

9 hours ago, Stubby said:

Do you mean the TINY MINORITY of high-risk unvaccinated folks with underlying HEALTH conditions are significantly more likely to become seriously ill, hospitalized, or die? Or, are you suggesting that anyone... whatever their age, weight, physical condition, and health status... are significantly more likely to become seriously ill, hospitalized, or die if they're unvaccinated? I've never quite understood the broad use of "The Unvaccinated," so I'm open to being educated.  

Thank you.

I doubt there will be a satisfactory answer to that.

I still haven't been able to find out the % that died that were previously fit and healthy, and unaffected by some underlying health condition. I doubt I ever will know that though.

The fear campaign is well and truly under way where I live.

[thaibeachlovers]

8 hours ago, ozimoron said:

For the unvaccinated, the situation is very different. Omicron is still severe enough that it will lead to debilitating illness and death for many unvaccinated people.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/11/briefing/omicron-deaths-vaccinated-vs-unvaccinated.html

 

 

I wouldn't be considering death rates in a city like N Y to be representative of anything except a city like N Y. IMO a city like that has to be about as unhealthy as it's possible to get in a western country. Massive air toxicity, food that has to be trucked in from far away, and probably processed with large amounts of sugar and chemicals, people crammed into unhealthy slums or living rough.

 

Tell me the rate in a rural area where people actually do hard physical work for a living and breath decent air.

Edited February 2, 2022 by thaibeachlovers

[thaibeachlovers]

3 hours ago, cdemundo said:

Take a look at Herman Cain Awards on reddit.

There you can see that the young, healthy, with strong immune systems catch COVID and go to the hospital and often die.

It's the numerator, not the denominator, if 1/1000 or 1/1,000,000 if you are the 1....

Define "often". That word can mean anything one wants it to.

Do you have access to their medical records to claim that they are "healthy" and have "strong immune systems"? For all I know they were 10 kg overweight and spent all day on playstation, and /or smoked.

[thaibeachlovers]

31 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Only if one that wasn't affected by bad side effects, like the guy I know.

 

What % of the 8 billion people on the planet are are getting sick enough with covid to go to hospital, and of them what % are dying OF covid, NOT WITH?

I meant to put NEARLY 8 billion people. Couldn't edit by the time I realised I missed the "nearly".

[Jeffr2]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Only if one that wasn't affected by bad side effects, like the guy I know.

 

What % of the 8 billion people on the planet are are getting sick enough with covid to go to hospital, and of them what % are dying OF covid, NOT WITH?

In the US, the death certificate is a legal document signed by a doctor stating the cause of death.  It's a big deal.  If covid was the trigger, then it will be listed as the cause of death.  If it wasn't the trigger, then it won't be listed as the cause of death.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, Jeffr2 said:

In the US, the death certificate is a legal document signed by a doctor stating the cause of death.  It's a big deal.  If covid was the trigger, then it will be listed as the cause of death.  If it wasn't the trigger, then it won't be listed as the cause of death.

The US only has a fraction of the world population and my queries concern the entire world population ( unless stated otherwise ).