Retirement in Thailand for low and mid level budget expats -- is the party really over?

[Jingthing]

 

"Pattaya can longer rely on elderly retiree expats

 

 

While substantial Thai tourism will certainly resume once the pandemic subsides, the traditional expat market is already in steep decline. These are the guys who retired here on fixed pensions to enjoy the golden years before the prospect of the crematorium became a near-term possibility. Journalist Sarah Scuzzarello describes this group as “Elderly retirees enacting privilege over local people because of their superior wealth.”"

 

https://www.pattayamail.com/latestnews/news/pattaya-can-longer-rely-on-elderly-retiree-expats-388987

 

It appears that it is indeed headed that way. 

 

BTW: Compliments to Barry Kenyon for all his columns. Is he not the most brilliant writer on expat issues here?

[Kwasaki]

Not all retirees would live in a place like Pattaya so what you're  angle.

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, Kwasaki said:

Not all retirees would live in a place like Pattaya so what you're  angle.

Its obviously not only about Pattaya. Its about lower and mid level budget retired expats in Thailand in general.

 

[rumak]

"These are the guys who retired here on fixed pensions to enjoy the golden years before the prospect of the crematorium became a near-term possibility. Journalist Sarah Scuzzarello describes this group as “Elderly retirees enacting privilege over local people because of their superior wealth.”

 

gee,  i sure would like to have a chat with her.    be great to hear/learn some more from her on generalizations .      maybe someone can explain to me what "enacting privilege"  means?    Isn't that what people with money, power, or influence usually do in this world ?

Or,  is it just elderly retirees in Pattaya ....oh , excuse me , Thailand.    

Edited February 11, 2022 by rumak

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, rumak said:

"These are the guys who retired here on fixed pensions to enjoy the golden years before the prospect of the crematorium became a near-term possibility. Journalist Sarah Scuzzarello describes this group as “Elderly retirees enacting privilege over local people because of their superior wealth.”

 

gee,  i sure would like to have a chat with her.    be great to hear/learn some more from her on generalizations .      maybe someone can explain to me what "enacting privilege"  means?    Isn't that what people with money, power, or influence usually do in this world ?

Or,  is it just elderly retirees in Pattaya ?

No. Not only.

I think you know what it means...

[StayinThailand2much]

Really depends on your budget. Living expenses rising, Western food and beverages ridiculously expensive, lasses charging prices higher than in the West (for a quick 15min. starfish-experience), and visas harder and harder to get (exceptions: Elite Visa, and 10-year visas for 'well-to-do experts')...

Edited February 11, 2022 by StayinThailand2much

[Kwasaki]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

Its obviously not only about Pattaya. Its about lower and mid level budget retired expats in Thailand in general.

 

 I'm asking the question as there's no comparison to where I live and Pattaya that's all fling me. 

[Jingthing]

Just now, StayinThailand2much said:

Really depends on your budget. Living expenses rising, Western food and beverages  ridiculously expensive, lasses charging prices higher than in the West (for a quick 15min. starfish-experience), and visas harder and harder to get (exceptions: Elite Visa, and 10-year visas for 'well-to-do experts')

Right. Wealthy people are exempted.

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, Kwasaki said:

I'm asking the question as there's no comparison to where I live and Pattaya that's all fling me. 

The article references the national situation not only the local.

[BritManToo]

5 minutes ago, rumak said:

Journalist Sarah Scuzzarello

Not actually a journalist but .........

"Sarah Scuzzarello (PhD Lund University) is a Lecturer at the Department of Geography and a Research Fellow at the Sussex Centre for Migration Research (SCMR). Her research focuses mainly on 1. gender and transnationalism and 2. comparative politics of migration and integration."

Edited February 11, 2022 by BritManToo

[rumak]

Just now, BritManToo said:

Not actually a journalist but .........

Sarah Scuzzarello (PhD Lund University) is a Lecturer at the Department of Geography and a Research Fellow at the Sussex Centre for Migration Research (SCMR). Her research focuses mainly on 1. gender and transnationalism and 2. comparative politics of migration and integration.

and i would definitely greet her with the customary " Right on sister ! "

[bert bloggs]

I retired here with my Thai wife and son when i retired in the UK and we came back here,so what category am i in ?

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, bert bloggs said:

I retired here with my Thai wife and son when i retired in the UK and we came back here,so what category am i in ?

Married.

[The Hammer2021]

Tough grandads are still coming here and for the time being seem to outnumber younger people.

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, The Hammer2021 said:

Tough grandads are still coming here and for the time being seem to outnumber younger people.

Perhaps but the total numbers are definitely way down from 5 years ago. I would only recommend Thailand now to wealthy retired expats. Less than that there are better options.

[robblok]

How are visa's harder to get by did they change the 800k retirement rule that has been there for ages ?

 

I think not so its not harder its the same as before.

 

As for western food, that might be more expensive but i notice it hardly as i make my own food. Sure last year when i ordered foor from grab every day an it was 800-1000bt per day it was expensive. But it does not have to be expensive if you make your own food.

 

So it really depends on what you expect and want.

[mokwit]

"Desperate publicity about Brits stuck in Thai hospitals, dependent on crowd-funding to save their lives, has finally killed off the nonsense that the embassy will ride to the rescue.'

 

I just wasn't aware of the British Embassy riding to the rescue of anybody, ever.

[spidermike007]

It is definitely still possible to live well here on a reasonable monthly budget. It is certainly not cheap anymore, but compared to anywhere in the West, it is reasonable. You can rent a nice home here in a smaller town for 10,000 to 15,000 baht a month. You can rent a smaller condo in Hua Hin for 10,000 baht a month. In Los Angeles, a decent 3 bedroom house would be $3,500 a month. Hyper inflation in the US right now is positively stupid. Prices are skyrocketing. And food is not expensive here, nor is dining out. And when it comes to anything labor related, that is where you really can save some money.

 

The last time I had my motorbike seat redone on my scooter. 400 baht. A friend of mine had similar work done in the US. $275.

I recently had a guy come over and insulate my ceiling. I bought the insulation and paid him 2000 baht for labor. In the US? $800 and up.

I recently had an electrician do some work on the house. Nearly a full day of work. Paid him 1000 baht. In the US? $800 and up.

An oil change for my scooter costs me 200 baht, with Castrol oil. In the US? $75.

When I travel here I stay in nice four star hotels in Bangkok. 1200-1500 baht. In the US? $130 for a crappy motel. $200 and up for a nice room.

I eat well here. In a smaller town you can get a three course meal for 200-250 baht. In the US? 2000 baht and up, plus tax and a nearly mandatory 15% tip.

I visit the emergency room here to visit a specialist, and with x-rays I am out the door for 2000 baht, at a private hospital. In the US? $300-2000.

Friends of mine, who are single, enjoy the company of a young, beautiful woman for a couple of hours, for 2500 baht. In the US? $800 an hour now for a decent looking gal, with rules and regulations and alot of attitude. Now, that is barely fun at all.

I could go on and on, all day long. I live at a level here, that I would never be able to live at, in the US, in most of Europe, in Oz, or Canada. Yes, the higher baht is an annoyance. And yes things are more expensive than they used to be. But, it is very relative.
 

 

 

Edited February 11, 2022 by spidermike007

[Jingthing]

8 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

It is definitely still possible to live well here on a reasonable monthly budget. It is certainly not cheap anymore, but compared to anywhere in the West, it is reasonable. You can rent a nice home here in a smaller town for 10,000 to 15,000 baht a month. You can rent a smaller condo in Hua Hin for 10,000 baht a month. In Los Angeles, a decent 3 bedroom house would be $3,500 a month. Hyper inflation in the US right now is positively stupid. Prices are skyrocketing. And food is not expensive here, nor is dining out. And when it comes to anything labor related, that is where you really can save some money.

 

The last time I had my motorbike seat redone on my scooter. 400 baht. A friend of mine had similar work done in the US. $275.

I recently had a guy come over and insulate my ceiling. I bought the insulation and paid him 2000 baht for labor. In the US? $800 and up.

I recently had an electrician do some work on the house. Nearly a full day of work. Paid him 1000 baht. In the US? $800 and up.

An oil change for my scooter costs me 200 baht, with Castrol oil. In the US? $75.

When I travel here I stay in nice four star hotels in Bangkok. 1200-1500 baht. In the US? $130 for a crappy motel. $200 and up for a nice room.

I eat well here. In a smaller town you can get a three course meal for 200-250 baht. In the US? 2000 baht and up, plus tax and a nearly mandatory 15% tip.

I visit the emergency room here to visit a specialist, and with x-rays I am out the door for 2000 baht, at a private hospital. In the US? $300-2000.

Friends of mine, who are single, enjoy the company of a young, beautiful woman for a couple of hours, for 2500 baht. In the US? $800 an hour now for a decent looking gal, with rules and regulations and alot of attitude. Now, that is barely fun at all.

I could go on and on, all day long. I live at a level here, that I would never be able to live at, in the US, in most of Europe, in Oz, or Canada. Yes, the higher baht is an annoyance. And yes things are more expensive than they used to be. But, it is very relative.
 

 

 

I would be comparing to other retirement destinations.

 

Note how Thailand is rated very low in multiple categories.

 

 

Edited February 11, 2022 by Jingthing

[itsari]

7 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

It is definitely still possible to live well here on a reasonable monthly budget. It is certainly not cheap anymore, but compared to anywhere in the West, it is reasonable. You can rent a nice home here in a smaller town for 10,000 to 15,000 baht a month. You can rent a smaller condo in Hua Hin for 10,000 baht a month. In Los Angeles, a decent 3 bedroom house would be $3,500 a month. Hyper inflation in the US right now is positively stupid. Prices are skyrocketing. And food is not expensive here, nor is dining out. And when it comes to anything labor related, that is where you really can save some money.

 

The last time I had my motorbike seat redone on my scooter. 400 baht. A friend of mine had similar work done in the US. $275.

I recently had a guy come over and insulate my ceiling. I bought the insulation and paid him 2000 baht for labor. In the US? $800 and up.

I recently had an electrician do some work on the house. Nearly a full day of work. Paid him 1000 baht. In the US? $800 and up.

An oil change for my scooter costs me 200 baht, with Castrol oil. In the US? $75.

When I travel here I stay in nice four star hotels in Bangkok. 1200-1500 baht. In the US? $130 for a crappy motel. $200 and up for a nice room.

I eat well here. In a smaller town you can get a three course meal for 200-250 baht. In the US? 2000 baht and up, plus tax and a nearly mandatory 15% tip.

I visit the emergency room here to visit a specialist, and with x-rays I am out the door for 2000 baht, at a private hospital. In the US? $300-2000.

Friends of mine, who are single, enjoy the company of a young, beautiful woman for a couple of hours, for 2500 baht. In the US? $800 an hour now for a decent looking gal, with rules and regulations and alot of attitude. Now, that is barely fun at all.

I could go on and on, all day long. I live at a level here, that I would never be able to live at, in the US, in most of Europe, in Oz, or Canada. Yes, the higher baht is an annoyance. And yes things are more expensive than they used to be. But, it is very relative.
 

 

 

Annoyance from the strong baht has a long way to go yet and then will make all your baht to dollars look painful .

I believe if you want to retire here in Thailand then you need to protect your self . Most obvious choice is Thai  real estate and rent out . Any other better suggestions?

[Jingthing]

20 minutes ago, robblok said:

How are visa's harder to get by did they change the 800k retirement rule that has been there for ages ?

 

I think not so its not harder its the same as before.

 

As for western food, that might be more expensive but i notice it hardly as i make my own food. Sure last year when i ordered foor from grab every day an it was 800-1000bt per day it was expensive. But it does not have to be expensive if you make your own food.

 

So it really depends on what you expect and want.

As an American.

No income letters possible.

Combo method out.

800k .money seasoning rules radically changed.

Insurance for OA extensions.

[spidermike007]

1 minute ago, itsari said:

Annoyance from the strong baht has a long way to go yet and then will make all your baht to dollars look painful .

I believe if you want to retire here in Thailand then you need to protect your self . Most obvious choice is Thai  real estate and rent out . Any other better suggestions?

Real estate here only makes sense if you can buy at 40% off asking price, and there is potential for appreciation, which eliminates most condos. Nobody knows where this market is going. And with most properties, the numbers barely make sense. In the past, buying land and building bungalows to rent out to foreigners was a good money maker. But, those days seem to be long gone.

[robblok]

Just now, Jingthing said:

As an American.

No income letters possible.

Combo method out.

800k .money seasoning rules radically changed.

Insurance for OA extensions.

You mean that Americans finally have to show money in the bank like ordinary people. Not just swear they have it. So what is the problem if you had that money then you could park it in Thailand. If you did not have it you lied.

 

Of course there will be all the excuses its tied up, ect ect. Other nationalities had the same problems but moved their money anyway.  

[Jingthing]

8 minutes ago, robblok said:

You mean that Americans finally have to show money in the bank like ordinary people. Not just swear they have it. So what is the problem if you had that money then you could park it in Thailand. If you did not have it you lied.

 

Of course there will be all the excuses its tied up, ect ect. Other nationalities had the same problems but moved their money anyway.  

No!

The assertion that all or most Americans that were using the letters before were lying is a disgusting lie. 

Edited February 11, 2022 by Jingthing

[itsari]

5 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

Real estate here only makes sense if you can buy at 40% off asking price, and there is potential for appreciation, which eliminates most condos. Nobody knows where this market is going. And with most properties, the numbers barely make sense. In the past, buying land and building bungalows to rent out to foreigners was a good money maker. But, those days seem to be long gone.

Appreciation is not a big concern at 70 years of age . Income is the priority . Real estate  with income in baht is a hedge against an appreciating baht if your income is from overseas .

Many situations are long gone . One has to look forward 

[KannikaP]

14 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Combo method out.

Since when?. UK people can use that method.

(Well this one can!)

Edited February 11, 2022 by KannikaP

[robblok]

43 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

No!

The assertion that all or most Americans that were using the letters before were lying is a disgusting lie. 

 i never said all American's were lying but im pretty sure it happened. So if you have the money what is the problem about moving it ? The only problem I see is the one time hit in exchange rate. But over the years that is not too bad. 

 

 

[The Hammer2021]

32 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Perhaps but the total numbers are definitely way down from 5 years ago. I would only recommend Thailand now to wealthy retired expats. Less than that there are better options.

I would never recommend Thailand to poor people.
However, all sectors and demographics of tourists, travellers and retirees are currently down in numbers here whether you select by age, gender, orientation or nationality. But currently in term of comparative numbers the elderly including visitors and retirees seem to be growing for the time being. Everywhere I go around Pattaya I see older, 45 to 70  age range people out and about in bars, clubs  restaurants, G clubs and Girly bars and in streets and on beaches. 'ROCK ON WRINKLIES'!

[grain]

41 minutes ago, The Hammer2021 said:

Tough grandads are still coming here and for the time being seem to outnumber younger people.

I'm currently in Pattaya for a few days, first time here in close to 3 years, and yes, the grandads are sure here in large numbers, can't say I've noticed many of the younger monger guys who used to come in droves, nor any family groups, just all those grandads walking around in their shorts & singlets & sandals. I guess it's easier for them, being over 50 and getting retirement exts, and having pensions. 

[StayinThailand2much]

47 minutes ago, robblok said:

How are visa's harder to get by did they change the 800k retirement rule that has been there for ages ?

Not all 'retirees' are over 50 yet. And if it is so 'easy', why are there several webboards, with many people asking for advice, dozens of topics about 'Thailand Retirement Visa' on "Asia Now" alone, and hundreds of posts? If it was so straightforward, shouldn't there be just one official website, outlining the 'few' requirements?

Edited February 11, 2022 by StayinThailand2much