My Thai step-daughter has been given the ultimatum 40% wage cut or unemployment.

[BritManToo]

Works for a medium sized company in Chiang Mai, selling processed food both in Thailand and internationally. Started working for them last year after graduating on 18K/month, now told it will be reduced to 11k/month (same cuts for all staff). Take it or leave, she's at a leaving do with her work pals who already decided to leave at this very moment. 6 years higher education for nothing, she could have been working in Tesco for 9k/month since age 16.

 

With the government trying to raise minimum wage from 300 to 500bht/day and many business on the edge. My personal opinion is the poop is about to hit the fan generally in the Thai economy.

 

I've told her to leave and move back home, I'll feed her.

What do you all think?

Edited February 12, 2022 by BritManToo

[geisha]

Get her to check with the work authorities ( don’t know name) that they are actually allowed to do that first. Are they going bust, or is it business as normal money wise ? Lots of employers tried to pull a fast one on staff during Covid. And not only because they were suffering. Maybe more will leave and she’ll be able to talk it over ? Another thing to consider, will she find another job easily, or should she hang out and look for another one quietly before deciding.  Good luck to her. 

[dj230]

I hate to say this but “higher” education is not really what it used to be. I am fairly young (mid 20’s) and I didn’t go to university, well I did for a year and dropped out. I didn’t see the value in it and I was seeing people graduate with 0 jobs because they decided to study English, social sciences or liberal arts. Although I was studying computer science which had a fairly good post graduate career path, I decided to start a business instead and use the tuition funds to start it. 
 

It really depends what degree / program she choose to do, university programs with co-op / internships are usually better at creating a career.  
 

it’s a contrarian statement but unless you learn something valuable that can’t be done by others for cheaper, you have wasted most of your money going to university or “higher education”. 

 

I’m not very well versed in the education system but from briefly talking to people experiencing it right now, the universities other than top government universities seem like a complete money grab. Especially private universities, the days of buying a degree or learning nothing in university and getting a piece of paper to get a job are long over. 

just an example, rangsit university has degrees that don’t even require a minimum gpa average to graduate. I spoke to students at university of bangkok, 1 exam, no grades otherwise for assignments and no midterms. Crazy. 

 

Edited February 12, 2022 by dj230

[CharlieH]

And the Labor Department has said ?

Be interesting to know if this kind of ultimatum is legal.

[digbeth]

don't quit or agree to pay cuts, make them fire/make her redundant, she's entitled to severance pay of at least a month's pay if she's been there at least a year

if she quits on her own she's entitled to nothing

[itsari]

I well understand your annoyance but sometimes you have to eat humble pie . 

I think your daughter is better to accept the terms and move on when there is a new position available to her .

Its not fair , but what is . 

Not forgetting that a 40 percent decrease results in less income tax to pay . Net result maybe ok

Edited February 12, 2022 by itsari

[Fat is a type of crazy]

As others have said check if it's legal. Then she could have meetings with the other staff, as if they all refuse the pay cut, what is the company going to do. If the reality is the company is going bad then she just needs to look for a new job. It seems the Thai economy is not going that badly so hopefully she can find another job. She could keep that job in the meantime and if there's no other jobs then she might have to cop it. 

[In the jungle]

11K a year is not a reasonable salary for a graduate.

 

Minimum wage will be 15K if current proposal is implemented.

 

My wife's unskilled Burmese workers already make 15K a month.

[StayinThailand2much]

So, aren't there any better (-paid) jobs in Chiang Mai?

 

If not, she could go for it, while looking for alternatives.

[richard_smith237]

Your daughter needs to go here... >> https://chiangmai.mol.go.th/en/

 

Take any documentation and speak with someone at the labor office.

 

Your daughter is beyond her ‘probation period’ the company for whom she works is bound by contract.

 

IF your daughter leaves she has nothing, if she accepts the cut to 11,000 baht per-month is like having nothing (after paying rent etc)... so going to the Ministry of Labor Office in Chiang Mai cannot do any harm. 

 

The link above includes labor laws, they are in Thai. 

 

[scubascuba3]

Take the pay cut and get looking for a new job, you can see why girls get driven to sex when they can earn so much more for doing a lot less

[Airalee]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

6 years higher education for nothing, she could have been working in Tesco for 9k/month since age 16.

Having a (relatively useless) BS in Economics, this is always something I have thought about.  Especially since the push over the last 2 decades for everybody to have a college/university degree has trapped so many in huge amounts of debt (especially in the US).

 

6 years of higher education (additional cost including tuition, books, dorm (if living away from home)) compared to living at home and working for Tesco for that 9k/month and saving every penny plus saving whatever was spent on the degree above and beyond basic sunk costs (food, clothes, toiletries, etc)…who wins?

 

I believe that with very few exceptions (STEM), that in the end, with the 6 additional years of compounding (depending on investment returns of the saved money), the person who went right into the workforce as early as possible will come out ahead (financially) of the person who chose the higher education route.

[Kwasaki]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

I've told her to leave and move back home, I'll feed her.

Yeah I would offer that and she could always find some work if she wanted locally.

Still though up to her. ???? 

[blackcab]

Salary cannot be deducted in this manner. The staff should have stayed at the company and told their employer they expect to be paid in full or be paid full severance and notice.

 

The Labour Department is quick to get money from employers who short-change their employees.

 

That said, confronting authority is not especially common.

[Enoon]

 

Get her out of Thailand.

 

 

 

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

Unless there are special circumstances in this case, it usually isn't a good move to cut everyone's wages and keep them all onboard. There will likely be a number of disgruntled staff who may consciously or unconsciously sabotage the employer.  Better to reduce headcount and give the remaining staff a small salary increase and a pep talk to keep them motivated and onside.

 

Sounds like they're trying to avoid paying severance. Talk with Labor Department.

 

 

[1FinickyOne]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

I've told her to leave and move back home, I'll feed her.

What do you all think?

Depends on what's for dinner...

 

And yet, it costs me 500 baht a day for a decent gardener and maid... my wife's best friend is working as a maid in Bkk [several different customers] - - she totals out at 30k a month... 

 

But to answer your question, I would let my kid decide... she is only 16 now but I I am sure that she knows that moving back home will always be an option... 

[1FinickyOne]

15 minutes ago, Enoon said:

 

Get her out of Thailand.

 

 

 

It's a much crueler world beyond... 

[1FinickyOne]

1 hour ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

she could have meetings with the other staff,

I dreamed I saw Joe Hill last night, alive as you and me.... 

[atpeace]

That is terrible and what an awful place for her to be but your advice is equally terrible.

 

Tell her to take the pay cut and look for something else immediately.  Life isn't fair and if if no other opportunities arise then she is lucky to be at least earning 11k.  Returning home defeated and being fed by Dad won't help her other than help her become more dependent on others. Doubt this is what you or she desires.  If she finds her way out of this predicament she will be a better person for it in the future.  Why not help her with rent or anything else if she runs out of cash while she is working and looking?

[richard_smith237]

1 minute ago, atpeace said:

That is terrible and what an awful place for her to be but your advice is equally terrible.

 

Tell her to take the pay cut and look for something else immediately.  Life isn't fair and if if no other opportunities arise then she is lucky to be at least earning 11k.  Returning home defeated and being fed by Dad won't help her other than help her become more dependent on others. Doubt this is what you or she desires.  If she finds her way out of this predicament she will be a better person for it in the future.  Why not help her with rent or anything else if she runs out of cash while she is working and looking?

Because what the company is doing is not legal. 

 

Brit’s initial suggestion was obviously not the best which is why he turned to this forum for further advice.

 

Now he knows that his daughter should go to the ministry of Labor and they should be able to help in her situation. The labor laws in Thailand are very supportive of employees, in such circumstances this is ‘almost’ a slam dunk.

 

Of course, going ‘head to head’ with the company may see the girl laid off, however, our maid gets 700 per day.  She works for other people too. If she’s working 6 days per week, she’s pulling in 16,800 baht per month.

This places into perspective the type of stunt this company is pulling on BritMan’s daughter, its wrong and she should stand up. 

 

 

 

[Lacessit]

Take the pay cut, and immediately start looking for better jobs with better pay. Although this may be a general approach by most businesses with the upcoming minimum wage proposal, take with one hand and give back with the other.

Psychologically, IMO it's much better for her to continue employment, rather than going back to dependence on relatives.

[atpeace]

2 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Because what the company is doing is not legal. 

 

Brit’s initial suggestion was obviously not the best which is why he turned to this forum for further advice.

 

Now he knows that his daughter should go to the ministry of Labor and they should be able to help in her situation. The labor laws in Thailand are very supportive of employees, in such circumstances this is ‘almost’ a slam dunk.

 

Of course, going ‘head to head’ with the company may see the girl laid off, however, our maid gets 700 per day.  She works for other people too. If she’s working 6 days per week, she’s pulling in 16,800 baht per month.

This places into perspective the type of stunt this company is pulling on BritMan’s daughter, its wrong and she should stand up. 

 

 

 

Fine but do what I stated  while looking into the legality of what her company is doing.  If it is illegal and likely to win in court or a claim at the employment office, then go down that route.  Have my doubts this will work in the end but have at it if she thinks it is the best option.   

 

Still think quitting and going back home is terrible advice.  If the other employers will pay more than 11k for her skills then great if not she has to accept reality.  Reality can suck!

[pgrahmm]

18 minutes ago, atpeace said:

That is terrible and what an awful place for her to be but your advice is equally terrible.

 

Tell her to take the pay cut and look for something else immediately.  Life isn't fair and if if no other opportunities arise then she is lucky to be at least earning 11k.  Returning home defeated and being fed by Dad won't help her other than help her become more dependent on others. Doubt this is what you or she desires.  If she finds her way out of this predicament she will be a better person for it in the future.  Why not help her with rent or anything else if she runs out of cash while she is working and looking?

Sound advice....

[richard_smith237]

2 minutes ago, atpeace said:

Fine but do what I stated  while looking into the legality of what her company is doing.  If it is illegal and likely to win in court or a claim at the employment office, then go down that route.  Have my doubts this will work in the end but have at it if she thinks it is the best option.   

 

Still think quitting and going back home is terrible advice.  If the other employers will pay more than 11k for her skills then great if not she has to accept reality.  Reality can suck!

Indeed... 

 

I suspect her best option will be: 

- Contact the Ministry of Labor.... it won’t go to court, the MoL will contact the employer. If the employer still refuses then the MoL may take the employer to court. This is of course a stronger case if Brits daughter gets friends together as this then become as class action case. 

 

- Meanwhile, keep the job but refuse to accept or sign anything accepting a pay cut. The company can either fire her, in which case they will have to pay for severance (up to 10 months - 1 for each year worked), if they refuse this, again, MoL will take on the case. 

 

- Meanwhile, also look for another job with better prospects, as even if she wins the young lady does not want to remain working for a toxic company.

 

- I agree with you, going home is not the idea solution especially if she needs to have regular meetings with the MoL. 

 

---------

 

- The very first thing this young lady should do is go see the MoL, explain her situation, have them provide her with legal documentation (i.e. the specific section of the labor law which makes the pay cut illegal), the girl can present this to the employer and notify them that she has visited the MoL - this will (may / should) make the employer take a step backwards. 

 

 

[richard_smith237]

19 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Take the pay cut, and immediately start looking for better jobs with better pay. Although this may be a general approach by most businesses with the upcoming minimum wage proposal, take with one hand and give back with the other.

Psychologically, IMO it's much better for her to continue employment, rather than going back to dependence on relatives.

No.. she should not quit. IF the company fires her, the owe her 108,000 baht severance (6 years of work, x 1 month for each year worked). 

 

The company obviously want her to quit so they can avoid paying severance, or take the pay cut so they can save money. None of this is the employee’s problem, they are on an incredibly low wage already. 

 

 

[vinny41]

10 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

No.. she should not quit. IF the company fires her, the owe her 108,000 baht severance (6 years of work, x 1 month for each year worked). 

 

The company obviously want her to quit so they can avoid paying severance, or take the pay cut so they can save money. None of this is the employee’s problem, they are on an incredibly low wage already. 

 

 

The op hasn't said she has completed 12 months work if she has her severance will be 18K not 108K

[mokwit]

This happened at a company I worked at in '97 crisis. Staff agreed to a pay cut on the condition that if they were subsequently laid off their severance would be at the pre cut rate and I think also that they would be paid the difference between pre and post cut for the time period between start of cut and when laid off.

 

Colleague was asked to take an additional pay cut later on and refused so they said sorry, we have to terminate you then. This company was very straight, so I would guess it is legal.

 

If l;aid off, don't let them make you leave early by taking holiday owed. Demand to work those days and get the cash instead, that's what people demanded at my place.

 

In fairness to the company I worked for, they kept me on for a year longer than when my job kinda became irrelevant and laid me off when they laid off all the other people who weren't related to anybody.

Edited February 12, 2022 by mokwit

[alphonse]

Perhaps the company is in danger of going under.

 

Just saying.

[BangkokReady]

3 hours ago, BritManToo said:

6 years higher education for nothing

Never a waste.  As they say "they can't take your education away from you".  There will be more opportunities that will require her qualifications in the future.

 

3 hours ago, BritManToo said:

I've told her to leave and move back home, I'll feed her.

What do you all think?

Is there any need to rush?  Can she wait and look for something else?  It's often easier to find work while still employed but maybe not in a different city.  Any connections through her current work that can help?

 

What are her prospect in BKK?  More likely to get work there?

 

As others have said, probably better for her not to move home if it can be avoided, although you clearly care for her and maybe want to stick it to her company, keeping her independent and standing on her own two feet might be better for her personal development.

 

Good luck with it.  Horrible situations for young people all over Thailand.