Big Decision: Which Asian country is ideal for foreign retirees?

[NanaSomchai]

31 minutes ago, gejohesch said:

I personally understand why Mexico, Colombia, France, Spain or Portugal figure in the top 10.

 

Portugal and Spain, great also, cheap enough, very safe, lots to do and see, good climates.

These destinations only lack one very important thing: WOMEN. No pay4play experience.

 

Edited February 14, 2022 by NanaSomchai

[crazykopite]

2 hours ago, Dustdevil said:

I've lived in Malaysia for two years and subsequently had to visit many times. I wouldn't wish that place on anyone--well, maybe just my worst enemies. Overall, don't forget it's officially and majority a Muslim country with the mindset that goes along with that. The 25-30% Chinese population are in a weird mind bubble and the only thing they care about and talk about is food. What I had for breakfast and what I'm going to have for lunch and dinner, and of course Malaysia has the best food in the world and Westerners only eat cheese and steaks. They even use food as a greeting. And with bad English. "Have you taken your breakfast?" is confusing at first and wears very thin soon after.

 

Money, of course, is extremely relevant to them but they only talk about food, and maybe their new Honda Accord, which to them says "you've arrived." The so-called English they speak is obnoxious and often unintelligible. They have weird and warped ideas about the West. (Singaporeans are more sophisticated; I wouldn't mind living there if I could afford it.) They hear of or know of one instance of something in another country or group and they immediately generalize it across the board. Yes, I know. others do that too to some extent, but not to the extreme that Malaysians do.

 

It is NOT a friendly country. Don't be fooled by the gracious hosts in your 4 or 5-star hotel!

 

Women are incredibly beautiful, yes, but so are women across Asia. I prefer the smiles of Thailand. Not to mention the Rimping supermarkets in Chiang Mai! Nothing like that in Malaysia, stocked to the rafters with European and American goods. And American breakfast for 35 baht. Okay, maybe 50 baht by now. And wonderful Thai dinners for 50 baht.

Have to disagree with your comments there is nothing  wrong with Malaysia religion shouldn’t come into it if I had the wealth I would move to Singapore meanwhile I’ll stick it out in Thailand until I find a buyer for my beachfront villa if I manage to sell then I’m off to complete my bucket list before the man upstairs calls me home 

Edited February 14, 2022 by crazykopite

[maddermax]

No country is perfect for retirement but if you don't need to be near relatives when retiring there are six aspects of later life which need to be researched before deciding which country, ie:

- Quality of life.

- Cost of living, eg, rents, home ownership, weekly groceries, entertainment, etc.

- Tax regime.

- Climate and environment, eg, air pollution.

- Security.

- Quality, availability and cost of medical facilities.

If you do this for Europe, Spain is the best place to be. For Asia, Thailand has my vote. However, the cost of living here is increasing rapidly.

[Pravda]

9 minutes ago, NanaSomchai said:

These destinations only lack one very important thing: WOMEN. No pussy.

 

You poor soul.....

[NanaSomchai]

Just now, Pravda said:

You poor soul.....

Calling a spade, a spade. Don't expect me to sugar coat things.

[micmichd]

1 hour ago, Dan747 said:

 I personally feel Thailand should be off the list with it's Covid-19 Entry Insurance Scams, TM-30 reporting, and all. It seems to be getting more expensive by the year as the TAT comes up with a New Tourist Schemes to their advantage. I am surprised Tourists want to come to Thailand with all the "B$." I believe it would be much more beneficial to go somewhere else. Just my thoughts.

Retirees are not tourists usually. 

[BE88]

3 hours ago, Dustdevil said:

Japan?! Only if you speak fluent Japanese and are not white.

Which greatly reduces the candidates, too bad I like Japanese girls ????

More seriously in Japan you don't get residency retirement.

 

Edited February 14, 2022 by BE88

[welshissan]

 

 

1 hour ago, DezLez said:

When did Israel become part of Asia?

Israel is in Asia !!

[SiSePuede419]

Luang Prabang, Laos would be my first choice because it's close to Chiang Rai to visit my family but far enough away that nobody is just going to "drop in". ????

[NanaSomchai]

6 minutes ago, micmichd said:

Retirees are not tourists usually. 

100% of said retirees were tourists at one point in their lives though.

[BE88]

2 hours ago, blazes said:

Prefer Spain myself.  Almost anywhere there, but especially Seville and  Granada...

Only if you have problems with insomnia then Spain is indicated for you.

[micmichd]

10 minutes ago, NanaSomchai said:

100% of said retirees were tourists at one point in their lives though.

Sure I was a tourist once. And then became a retiree. Certainly good to know the country before you retire. 

[BobfromNYC]

No mention of the two elephants in the room, rising authoritarianism in SEA and air pollution. Not many ideal locations. I'd move to Taiwan tomorrow but I'm not sure how long Taiwan will remain Taiwan at this point.

Edited February 14, 2022 by BobfromNYC

[BE88]

1 hour ago, malibukid said:

who goes to Sri Lanka for sex?  Sri Lanka has great beaches and good surfing.  beautiful animal parks. and very nice people and a wide variety of environments. 

I agree it is one of the best options to consider carefully.

[rocksniffer]

2 hours ago, NanaSomchai said:

Yes and yes. That implies Indonesia falls under the same category.

 

In Indonesia there is Shariah law in the province of Aceh, Northern Sumatra, and nowhere else.

[WinterGael]

I swear to god when it comes to mentioning Thailand in retirement conversations, they just pull out the decade old data and go with it.

 

In the last two years I have read many retirement planning magazines that list off countries around the world with respect to affordability, convenience, etc.  Thailand is not in the top 10 for any of them.  However, the Philippines, Vietnam, and Cambodia are.  Going up the ladder, Malaysia always beats out Thailand. Throw in Sri Lanka, and Thailand is sucking hind tit.  Why?

 

Cost, for one.  I live here, not cheap.  I'm married, and hope to god they don't do to married men what they've done to retirees over the past few years.  Honestly, if I was not married, I'd have to leave because the requirements are starting to get too expensive.  

 

Anniversary thing, as a tourist, this is the land of smiles - they bend over backwards for your tourist baht.  Living here, this is not a smiley face place.  Thais are not the warm, welcoming people that the ads would have you believe.  I have friends living in Mexico, Central America, and the Philippines who go on and on about how wonderful the people are and how well treated and helpful they are.  I can't say the sane.

 

Yes, Thailand has good healthcare, at a cost.  

 

So my advice to anyone e thinking about retiring here (or anywhere) do tons of homework.

[rocksniffer]

I lived in Thailand for 32 years. For the last 8 years I have been living in Indonesia. I prefer Indonesia. 

[JustAnotherHun]

4 minutes ago, WinterGael said:

I'm married, and hope to god they don't do to married men what they've done to retirees over the past few years. 

What exactly would that be the've done to retirees over the last years?

[BE88]

1 hour ago, spidermike007 said:

From what I hear from my friends who live there, the threshold for taking care of a PI gal is far lower than here, and so are their expectations. There is nothing inexpensive about caring for a Thai woman! I speak from experience! 

 

In terms of beauty, I find both have stunning women. But, the primary issue for me, if I was single, would be the actual quality of life there. From my point of view:

 

 

Philippines

Pros-

1. The women can be lovely. And many of them speak english. And if you are older guy, that is a plus in the PI. Plus they are way less demanding, and the bar is set much lower, in terms of their expectations. Older guys can get with far younger women, without an issue. The parents actually encourage it! Generally, it is possible to have a real conversation with many women there. Not the case here. It is rare here. Unlike most Thai women, the women there can have a real sense of curiousity, and will ask genuine questions about you, and your life, beyond where do you come from, how much do you earn, and what do you own? The PI seems to have a higher level of intellectual development.

 

2. The visa system is something that some think is simpler. You do need to have money on deposit, and unlike Thailand it remains on deposit the entire time you live there. A minimum of $20,000 for the SRRV Smile visa, unless that has changed.

 

3. The place has thousands of islands, and some stunning beaches, and cleaner water than Thailand, at least on the Gulf Coast. But, the islands are fairly hard to get to, and the services are very limited, and more expensive than in Thailand. So you really need a yacht or a helicopter if you want to take advantage of the remote islands. 

 

4. In general I would say the people can be quite friendly. Especially the women. But, unlike Thailand, even the men can be friendly. I suspect if I lived there, I would have a number of local male friends, unlike here. I have never met a society of men, who are less interested, less curious about, and less willing to get to know foreigners, than I have here in Thailand. It is sometimes astonishing. It is a real disappointment.5. The place is more Westernized. You do not feel like you are living on another planet, which can be nice sometimes. Some shopping can be better, as there are Costco type outlets there. Some of the highways are better, and as an American, I can have goods shipped to me, with a preferred system, that allows low cost shipping, and duty free imports. Unheard of in Thailand. Importation of goods in Thailand can be horrendously difficult. It is an onerous system, one that is outdated by decades, in this age of globalization. Thailand is far, far more insular and fearful of the outside world, than the PI.

 

nomadcapitalist.com/2018/01/15/the-philippines-residency-srrv/

 

Cons-

1. The entire country is like one big Tijuana. It is depressing. Very little landscaping in the homes, even nice homes are ugly, and have barbed wire, and glass topped walls everywhere you look.

 

2. The security situation is not very good. You always have to keep your eyes open, keep an eye on your back, and beware of robbery, home theft, and violence. It is rampant. I have many friends who live there, and they all say the same thing.

 

3. If you do get into an altercation with a Philippine man, or are getting robbed or harassed, unless you are a 6th degree sensei, do not fight back. More about that later. 

 

4. The food sucks. The only other country I can think of with worse food, is Cuba. Granted, if you are willing to spend the money, you can find good food. But, it is not the general rule, as it is here. Also, the access to fresh fruits and vegetables is pathetic compared to Thailand. Very low quality, and often not fresh. Thailand is a paradise by comparison, when it comes to all things related to food.

 

5. Pollution. They use a lower grade of diesel. So, there is alot of soot in the air. The PI has an epidemic of lung diseases and respiratory diseases. Even on many of the populated islands. The hospitals are full of people who are having a very hard time breathing. It is a real issue there. Lung disease is at an epidemic level, though the authorities do not like to talk about it, and publish very little information on it.

 

6. Aesthetics. The average house you would rent, looks like a slum. Tall walls, with barbed wire, to keep out intruders. And they just do not pay attention to landscaping and gardens like the Thai people do. So, most neighborhoods are fabulously ugly. Alot of slums in the big cities, and just not physically appealing.

 

7. Renting. There is a vastly lower number of rental units available, few are as nice as what you can find in Thailand, and it is almost always more expensive, with the possible exception of Central Bangkok. You just cannot find the studio apartments like the ones available all over Hua Hin, for 6,000 to 8,000 baht a month. That does not exist there.

 

8. Infrastructure. The entire country lacks the infrastructure you have here in Thailand. As I am typing now, I am enjoying a 180MB download speed, and a 100MB upload speed, all on fiber optic cable, for 800 baht a month. Unheard of in many countries, including the US! Triple the cost there. No sky train network anywhere near comparable to Bangkok. Mo MRT network either. They have one under construction, and it will be limited to ten stations.

 

Shall I go on? I could. As far as I am concerned, the only reason to live there is the women, and a slightly more cooperative, and far less xenophobic and racist government. Alot of ex-pats are looking to leave Thailand, as the current administration is so far beyond heinous and incompetent, it is unspeakable.

 

I have a friend who does private security for a lot of very high net worth individuals, and corporate CEOs, when they travel, and he told me that the only country in the world that he will not take an assignment is the Philippines. When I asked him why he reminded me that he was at the 6th or 7th degree level in six different martial arts, besides the fact that he was 6'5 and about 280 lbs. of muscle. Spent his whole life training. Not the kind of guy you would want to mess with. He told me under normal circumstances he could incapacitate a group of four or five guys, in under a minute. Not in the PI. 

 

He said that in general, the Philippine men had the greatest degree of fighting skills of any group of people in the world, and that if you encountered a single guy, or a group of Philippine guys on the street you just never knew what their level of skill was, and you had to assume that they were expert street fighters. He said many were experts with knives, sticks and improvised weapons. Not the case here.

 

If you add on top of that, the fact that the country is extremely poor and that there's a fairly high level of desperation, it makes the Philippines a very, very dangerous place. Crime there is very opportunistic. And being a foreigner makes you a potential target. Again, not the case in Thailand. 

 

You really have to know what you're doing, you really have to know where you're going at all times, especially at night, and you always have to have eyes in the back of your head, and constantly looking over your shoulder. Of course, it varies depending on the city, the part of the city, and the region. But it is just one of many reasons I would not want to live there. 

 

I've been told this by a number of friends who live in the Philippines and it's been my observation, the several times that I have visited. 

 

I like the people. The level of english skills and the women seem to be the big draw for most guys. But random guys in the street, can be a hazard, and that is variable I would want to have to deal with, regularly. 

 

I consider the PI to be far more of a ghetto experience. But, I am referring to the environment, and I think you are referring to the social aspect. I agree with that. Thais are spectacularly insular, and seem to have little to no curiosity about the outside world. The people in the PI are infinitely more open minded, and far more Western. And the language is a huge plus in the PI. Many speak good english, and I would guess if you were attempting to speak poor Tagalog, the people would try far harder than here, to understand what you are trying to say. Since they are more Westernized, they are likely more creative, linguistically. If you do not have the pronunciation and the tones down perfectly here, the people are completely lost. A total inability to dance around in circles intellectually. And they barely even care to try to understand what you are saying! That is a huge nuisance and annoyance here. 

 

Thailand has a truly heinous government. Very xenophobic. However, most of the people are cool, and some of us have very good lives here, despite the official goons and immigration. 

 

The PI is a foreign country. It is far more western, and not afraid of outside influence. Thailand is a distant planet. More insular. Some of us like that! 

 

Nice summary that I fully agree with the PI and the TH

 

[Guderian]

I've been mulling this over lately as the pandemic draws to a close. Do I want to stay in Thailand forever more or would it be better to move elsewhere? I'm happy in Thailand and have been living here for almost 18 years now, but the lack of an official retirement programme worries me more and more as I get older. Specifically, I'm concerned that they might suddenly come up with, for example, full medical insurance requirements in order to extend a Non-Imm O visa for a year, as has happened with the OA visas. If you have any kind of a complicated medical history, even if you're 100% fit today, the insurance policy exclusions often mean that it's not possible to get full cover and, indeed, it can be unclear what exactly is covered by it until you need to make a claim against the policy and it's denied. And then, once you get into your late 70's or 80's, the annual premium can become similar to buying a small car every year, simply impractical. It's not only medical insurance, of course, they could change the rules in a number of other ways that might make life much more expensive and less pleasant here. At least in Malaysia they have a formal retirement programme, though the financial requirements might be too much for a lot of people, so you have certain legal rights which you do not have in Thailand, and never will have as far as I can see. All most of us have here is the right to beg for a new extension every year, which is usually granted without any issues, but my concern is that this may not always remain the case. As you get older, good quality hospitals and medical care are a must, which basically reduces the candidates to just Thailand, Malaysia and Singapore. Forget the island state, it's not a good choice for most, and to my mind it leaves Thailand and Malaysia looking similar on most fronts that matter, but Malaysia offers greater security in your retirement (if you can afford it) with its formal programme for retirees.

[BritManToo]

5 minutes ago, Guderian said:

As you get older, good quality hospitals and medical care are a must,

Don't agree,

I'm OK with dying if something serious happens, second rate medical care is good enough for me.

Never worry about tomorrow, you might not be here to see it.

Edited February 14, 2022 by BritManToo

[wwest5829]

3 hours ago, Dustdevil said:

Japan?! Only if you speak fluent Japanese and are not white.

And have a greater monthly retirement income than my $2400 a month ...

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, spidermike007 said:

2. The visa system is something that some think is simpler. You do need to have money on deposit, and unlike Thailand it remains on deposit the entire time you live there. A minimum of $20,000 for the SRRV Smile visa, unless that has changed.

I never met anyone in PI on SRRV, all the peeps I met just arrived with nothing and extended every 2-3 months. (It worked out at around $300/year for the extensions, no visits to immigration required) Many were working as bar/resort/hotel managers on the sly, and immigration never seemed to care.

 

You talk about violence and robbery, I've been there a lot and never had problems of any sort, despite walking around in the Manilla barrios late night/early morning. Everyone was always friendly and polite and like you mentioned PI guys were always up for a casual chat (unlike Thai guys).

Edited February 14, 2022 by BritManToo

[Jingthing]

3 hours ago, steven100 said:

Why  ?    Vietnam is better than the Philippines in my view.   Philippines is ok but their food leaves alot to be desired.

Vietnam does not WANT retired expats. That's why.

[RandiRona]

1 hour ago, NanaSomchai said:

Calling a spade, a spade. Don't expect me to sugar coat things.

He is here for temples and monks!!

[Jingthing]

55 minutes ago, welshissan said:

 

 

Israel is in Asia !!

Yes.

[NanaSomchai]

10 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Don't agree,

I'm OK with dying if something serious happens, second rate medical care is good enough for me.

Never worry about tomorrow, you might not be here to see it.

Change your name to ThaiManToo.

[Berkshire]

1 hour ago, Caldera said:

Vietnam doesn't even have a retirement visa, so much as I like visiting the country, it has no business being on that list.

 

If Thailand didn't have an incompetent government and nonsensical immigration procedures, it would be pretty much perfect. Even as it is, I think it's pretty good.

Even if Thailand's immigration procedures were "perfect," Thailand expats would still find something to complain about.  So might as well make it onerous.  Those that can't handle it will just leave....everybody wins. 

[NanaSomchai]

3 minutes ago, RandiRona said:

He is here for temples and monks!!

He must be! Lots of monks on Soi Buakhaow.

[BE88]

10 minutes ago, Guderian said:

I've been mulling this over lately as the pandemic draws to a close. Do I want to stay in Thailand forever more or would it be better to move elsewhere? I'm happy in Thailand and have been living here for almost 18 years now, but the lack of an official retirement programme worries me more and more as I get older. Specifically, I'm concerned that they might suddenly come up with, for example, full medical insurance requirements in order to extend a Non-Imm O visa for a year, as has happened with the OA visas. If you have any kind of a complicated medical history, even if you're 100% fit today, the insurance policy exclusions often mean that it's not possible to get full cover and, indeed, it can be unclear what exactly is covered by it until you need to make a claim against the policy and it's denied. And then, once you get into your late 70's or 80's, the annual premium can become similar to buying a small car every year, simply impractical. It's not only medical insurance, of course, they could change the rules in a number of other ways that might make life much more expensive and less pleasant here. At least in Malaysia they have a formal retirement programme, though the financial requirements might be too much for a lot of people, so you have certain legal rights which you do not have in Thailand, and never will have as far as I can see. All most of us have here is the right to beg for a new extension every year, which is usually granted without any issues, but my concern is that this may not always remain the case. As you get older, good quality hospitals and medical care are a must, which basically reduces the candidates to just Thailand, Malaysia and Singapore. Forget the island state, it's not a good choice for most, and to my mind it leaves Thailand and Malaysia looking similar on most fronts that matter, but Malaysia offers greater security in your retirement (if you can afford it) with its formal programme for retirees.

It seems to me that not many retirees have a monthly income of $ 2380 to take advantage of the mm2h visa

 

https://www.mm2h.com/requirements-to-qualify/