1 booster likely provides long lasting protection from Covid, including Omicron

[placeholder]

As has been noted a number of times approaching infinity, the immune system isn't all about antibodies. Not that it matters much to those who persist in claiming that covid vaccines are only effective in the short term..

 

Got a Covid Booster? You Probably Won’t Need Another for a Long Time

"A flurry of new studies suggest that several parts of the immune system can mount a sustained, potent response to any coronavirus variant...

The Omicron variant can dodge antibodies — immune molecules that prevent the virus from infecting cells — produced after two doses of a Covid vaccine. But a third shot of the mRNA vaccines made by Pfizer-BioNTech or by Moderna prompts the body to make a much wider variety of antibodies, which would be difficult for any variant of the virus to evade, according to the most recent study, posted online on Tuesday."

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/21/health/covid-vaccine-antibodies-t-cells.html

[Bkk Brian]

Promising news thanks

[Scott]

Once fully and adequately immunized, the body is capable of making the necessary antibodies to fight infection.  Part of the problem, is that that process is done by the adaptive immune system and that takes a bit of time to kick into full swing.  

 

In the meantime, the immune system either has to rely on the innate immune system which isn't particularly good at targeting a specific pathogen like Covid.   It also relies on existing antibodies.  It's a good idea to have those antibodies floating around in the body when a pandemic is raging.   Once the pandemic dies down, the amount of antibodies over time will diminish, as we have seen. 

 

We can produce more but will likely get at least a mild infection until the immune system kicks into high gear.  If you are older or immunocompromised, then the immune system is slower to respond and the risk of getting seriously ill is greater.  For the vast majority of people who are younger and healthier, they should not experience a serious infection.  

 

Time will tell.

[Nojohndoe]

Was it  just last week that the news was that a  booster only was effective for  4 months ?

 

 

[ozimoron]

5 minutes ago, Nojohndoe said:

Was it  just last week that the news was that a  booster only was effective for  4 months ?

 

 

effective against serious illness only for 4 months? No

[Bkk Brian]

Very similar sentiment currently from Fauci just over a week ago

 

Scientists said we’d take annual COVID jabs like flu shots. Now Fauci says it might be only every 5 years

 

“It will depend on who you are,” Fauci told the Financial Times, “but if you are a normal, healthy 30-year-old person with no underlying conditions, you might need a booster only every four or five years.” 

 

https://fortune.com/2022/02/09/scientists-said-wed-take-annual-covid-jabs-like-flu-shots-now-fauci-says-it-might-be-only-every-5-years/

[internationalism]

just a week from moderna booster I had 4 days hospitalised bacterial lung infection and in another 2 weeks (one month from vax) I had mild omicron, which was also hospitalised because of the recent infection.

there is a chance that the booster caused lung infection. What saved me were over 10 different vaxes (not the covid one) which I had a year ago.

I still have something seating in my lungs, mild discomfort.

In israel, europe, many had at least one booster and were swept by omicron

[ozimoron]

7 minutes ago, internationalism said:

just a week from moderna booster I had 4 days hospitalised bacterial lung infection and in another 2 weeks (one month from vax) I had mild omicron, which was also hospitalised because of the recent infection.

there is a chance that the booster caused lung infection. What saved me were over 10 different vaxes (not the covid one) which I had a year ago.

I still have something seating in my lungs, mild discomfort.

In israel, europe, many had at least one booster and were swept by omicron

There's an even bigger chance that the vaccination saved you from a worse lung infection, if either was at all implicated. It is ludicrous to claim that the covid specific vaccine caused the problem but other vaccines saved you.

Edited February 22, 2022 by ozimoron

[placeholder]

2 hours ago, Nojohndoe said:

Was it  just last week that the news was that a  booster only was effective for  4 months ?

 

 

Why do I bother? From the original post

"As has been noted a number of times approaching infinity, the immune system isn't all about antibodies. Not that it matters much to those who persist in claiming that covid vaccines are only effective in the short term.."

[head bender]

Very nice I wanted either but was told I could only get AZ at Bluport in Hua Hin

[Lacessit]

9 hours ago, internationalism said:

just a week from moderna booster I had 4 days hospitalised bacterial lung infection and in another 2 weeks (one month from vax) I had mild omicron, which was also hospitalised because of the recent infection.

there is a chance that the booster caused lung infection. What saved me were over 10 different vaxes (not the covid one) which I had a year ago.

I still have something seating in my lungs, mild discomfort.

In israel, europe, many had at least one booster and were swept by omicron

Bacteria and viruses are entirely different, a bacterial infection caused by a vaccine would be as rare as elephant poo in Antarctica.

There are exercises available to clear congested lungs, talk to a physiotherapist.

[internationalism]

6 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Bacteria and viruses are entirely different, a bacterial infection caused by a vaccine would be as rare as elephant poo in Antarctica.

There are exercises available to clear congested lungs, talk to a physiotherapist.

there is a one immune system responsible for protecting against bacteria and viruses.

If it's temporarily weakened by body reaction to vax, any virus or bacteria have an easier access.

I had a strongish reaction to the second pfizer, which lasted 6-7 weeks.

Edited February 22, 2022 by internationalism

[ozimoron]

Just now, internationalism said:

there is a one immune system responsible for protecting against bacteria and viruses.

If it's temporarily weakened by body reaction to vax, any virus or bacteria have an easier access

Vaccines strengthen immune systems. That's what vaccines are for.

[Pdavies99]

Meanwhile today, the UK announced :

"An autumn booster programme, aimed at a wide group of people, is planned later this year.

Up until now, only people with weak immune systems had been eligible for a fourth dose."

But naturally, Thailand knows best!

[Bkk Brian]

20 hours ago, Pdavies99 said:

Meanwhile today, the UK announced :

"An autumn booster programme, aimed at a wide group of people, is planned later this year.

Up until now, only people with weak immune systems had been eligible for a fourth dose."

But naturally, Thailand knows best!

Yes I read that, although its a targeted group only of the most vulnerable in society as a precaution for them and of course is not part of any required booster shot update to be fully vaccinated.

 

adults aged 75 years and over

residents in a care home for older adults

individuals aged 12 years and over who are immunosuppressed, or have weakened immune systems

 

"We know that immunity contracts over time and that this is usually more pronounced in older people, who are also most likely to develop serious disease. Therefore, giving these people an additional boost to their immunity makes sense to help protect them disease."

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-60465983

[GroveHillWanderer]

12 hours ago, internationalism said:

there is a chance that the booster caused lung infection

There are a number of different adverse effects that have been talked about as possibly being linked to Covid vaccines (thrombotic thrombocytopenia, myocarditis - there were even some recent reports of Guillain-Barré Syndrome) but one adverse effect that I have never seen even hinted at as a possibility, is a lung infection.

 

With 5 billion Covid vaccine doses administered already, if there was a risk of them causing lung infections, I think we would have heard about it by now.

Edited February 22, 2022 by GroveHillWanderer

[GroveHillWanderer]

2 hours ago, internationalism said:

If it's temporarily weakened by body reaction to vax

The immune system is not weakened - temporarily or otherwise, by the administration of a vaccine though, it is (and this may surprise you) strengthened by them.

Edited February 22, 2022 by GroveHillWanderer

[GroveHillWanderer]

 

 

13 hours ago, Nojohndoe said:

Was it  just last week that the news was that a  booster only was effective for  4 months ?

That's exactly the point being made by @placeholder- all reports of waning efficacy are based exclusively on diminishing antibody levels but super-high antibody levels are never maintained by the body and long-term immunity is much more dependent on B and T cells.

 

It's also the case that the immune system's antibody response gradually matures and based on repeated exposure to the relevant antigen produces fewer (but stronger and more effective) antibodies over time.

 

As pointed out in the article below:

 

Quote

Producing vast quantities of antibodies burns a lot of energy. The immune system cannot sustain such a high level of activity indefinitely, so it gradually switches to producing smaller amounts of more powerful antibodies.

Antibodies become more powerful over time after COVID-19 vaccination

[KhaoNiaw]

I had 2 AZ shots and was due for a booster last month but had the Covid about a week before due. Now not sure whether I need a booster as infection also seems to give strong protection. 

[rabang]

Nice, but I am still not going to take the booster. Most likely I will never get another covid vaccine.

[ThailandRyan]

14 minutes ago, rabang said:

Nice, but I am still not going to take the booster. Most likely I will never get another covid vaccine.

personal choice is available for all, and I chose to get a booster of Moderna, a full shot and not a half while in the States.  As a diabetic with an immunocompromised system due to a major surgical procedure I felt it was a good idea and so did my endocrinologist.

[rabang]

4 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

personal choice is available for all, and I chose to get a booster of Moderna, a full shot and not a half while in the States.  As a diabetic with an immunocompromised system due to a major surgical procedure I felt it was a good idea and so did my endocrinologist.

I had covid as a relatively mild case already before the vaccines and omicron and got very heavy side effects from both doses. I prefer not to have what seems like guaranteed bad side effects from a vaccine to avoid a possible infection that could be symptomless or just a flu as I do not belong to a risk group.

[ThailandRyan]

2 minutes ago, rabang said:

I had covid as a relatively mild case already before the vaccines and omicron and got very heavy side effects from both doses. I prefer not to have what seems like guaranteed bad side effects from a vaccine to avoid a possible infection that could be symptomless or just a flu as I do not belong to a risk group.

Unfortunately the vaccines affected folks differently, as I did not have any side effects except a sore arm after my second AZ vaccine and the same with my Moderna booster.  My first dose of AZ put me down with mild flu-like symptoms for 24 hors and then I was right as rain but had a sore arm.  

[Virt]

I wonder if there are any tests available for the ordinary public

that can tell if you developed some of those neat memory B cells that last for decades.

 

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20220210-the-cells-that-can-give-you-super-immunity?ocid=twfut

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

The news lately has a number of different countries announcing or considering fourth shots targeted at specific elderly and vulnerable populations, as opposed to general public mass vaccination.

 

Re the U.S.:

 

A fourth Covid-19 shot might be recommended this fall, as officials 'continually' look at emerging data

(CNN) As the world approaches the second anniversary of the declaration of the Covid-19 pandemic by the World Health Organization, on March 11, more nations are rolling out -- or are discussing the possibility of -- fourth doses of coronavirus vaccine for their most vulnerable. In the United States, leading public health officials say they are "very carefully" monitoring if or when fourth doses might be needed.

 

Israel was the first nation to roll out fourth doses, announcing in December that adults 60 and older, medical workers and people with suppressed immune systems were eligible to receive the extra shot if at least four months have passed since their third dose.

 

More recently, the Public Health Agency of Sweden announced last week that second booster doses are recommended for everyone 80 and older in the country. The United Kingdom's Department of Health and Social Care announced Monday that an extra booster dose of coronavirus vaccine will be offered in the spring to adults 75 and older, residents in care homes for older adults and immunosuppressed people 12 and older.

 

Now, the US Food and Drug Administration "is indeed continually looking at the emerging data on the pandemic and variants in the United States and overseas in order to evaluate the potential utility and composition of booster doses," FDA spokesperson Alison Hunt wrote in an email to CNN on Friday.

 

https://www.cnn.com/2022/02/19/health/fourth-covid-19-vaccine-dose-us/index.html

 

 

Edited February 22, 2022 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

19 hours ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

all reports of waning efficacy are based exclusively on diminishing antibody levels but super-high antibody levels are never maintained by the body and long-term immunity is much more dependent on B and T cells.

 

No, I don't believe that's correct. A lot of the waning efficacy projections have have been based on follow-up studies where people who have been vaccinated are then monitored and tracked over periods of time for future infections to see how often they occur and how long after the original vaccinations, and at what rates for different vaccines or combinations of vaccines.

 

[GroveHillWanderer]

9 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

No, I don't believe that's correct. A lot of the waning efficacy projections have have been based on follow-up studies where people who have been vaccinated are then monitored and tracked over periods of time for future infections to see how often they occur and how long after the original vaccinations, and at what rates for different vaccines or combinations of vaccines.

 

You don't believe that antibodies always wane eventually and cellular immunity is more important for longer term protection? 

 

That's just a basic fact of immunology. The body does not and cannot maintain a high level of antibody production against every pathogen it ever encounters, indefinitely. If it did, your blood would become a dangerously thick "sludge" causing serious problems.

 

As Dr. Rachel Presti, medical director of the Infectious Diseases Clinical Research Unit at Washington University in St. Louis puts it in the article below:

 

Quote

"If we had high levels of antibodies in our blood to every pathogen we were exposed to, our blood would quickly just become a sludge of antibodies"

The article also states, quite unequivocally:

 

Quote

Though sick people's bodies will initially pump tons of antibodies into their blood to clear an infection, the true masters of long-term viral immune defense are B-cells and T-cells

https://www.businessinsider.com/fauci-do-not-measure-covid-protection-immunity-with-antibody-test-2021-6

 

In another article Stephanie Langel, an immunologist at Duke University says the following:

 

Quote

“Immune responses can’t just stay in your blood forever,” Langel told me. If they didn’t abate, we’d have no room or resources for the body to mount a different defense, against another threat—and our blood would be nothing more than a useless antibody sludge."

 

"Waning" immunity not all bad

 

And that article further points out:

 

Quote

The focus on antibody counts alone actually does a disservice to our understanding of immunity, experts told me. Like a block of wood being hewn into a sharper blade, vaccinated immune systems can hone their skills over time. Part of waning certainly does mean fewer. But it can also mean better.

So if you don't believe that antibodies actually get better and more efficient as they get fewer in number, or don't accept the role of B and T cells in long term immunity then you are arguing against well-established scientific principles.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 hour ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

You don't believe that antibodies always wane eventually and cellular immunity is more important for longer term protection? 

 

None of what you posted above was pertinent to my comment, nor was I disagreeing with those points.

 

What I said and explained was wrong was your comment that:

 

"all reports of waning efficacy are based exclusively on diminishing antibody levels"

 

As I explained above, a lot of the studies and reports on waning efficacy are based on actual followup studies of vaccinated people who are then tested on at what rates, and when, they subsequently become infected.

 

Your prior comment suggested, whether you intended it or not, that the research and reported findings on waning efficacy was only being done using measurements of antibody levels, like the health authorities in Thailand often like to report on.

 

 

Edited February 23, 2022 by TallGuyJohninBKK