Assault on Kiev: Russian helicopters swoop above Ukraine's capital

[thaibeachlovers]

10 hours ago, rabas said:

Question.

 

Invading land armies attaching prepared defenses require far greater numbers just to not get killed. This is well known. Russia also sends wave after wave of poorly trained and equipped conscripts from streets and prisons in meat grinder attacks where they die in droves. This is well documented even by Russia, a recent Russian video shows a commander telling new troops they will all die, and thanks them.

 

You many not know that defenders have an advantage in local hospitals and doctors, which reduces deaths (but not casualties).

 

Given these well known factors that should greatly increase  Russian casualties, what logic do you use to say Ukraine has a 2X-3X higher death rate? Is it propaganda?

IMO you are being disingenuous. You must know that that is how Russia has always fought, and that they have far more men to send than Ukraine has available.

Russia lost between 20 million and 40 million ( depending on the source ) in WW2, so they have a ways to go yet.

[jvs]

 

[rabas]

53 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

IMO you are being disingenuous. You must know that that is how Russia has always fought, and that they have far more men to send than Ukraine has available.

Russia lost between 20 million and 40 million ( depending on the source ) in WW2, so they have a ways to go yet.

 No, not disingenuous. You ignored or missed my genuine point. 

 

I correctly showed that Ukraine's death toll cannot be way beyond Russia's rather the opposite is true and 400K Ukraine dead is likely just more Russian propaganda.  

 

How many Russians, Ukrainians, or others butcher Putin is willing to kill is a different subject. 

[Gweiloman]

12 hours ago, tgw said:

please stop parroting Ruzzian disinformation.

 

here is Ukraine II in the making : over 200.000 Georgians demonstrating against Russia-Law in Tbilissi (Georgia has a population of 3.7 million).

 

 

 

It’s not ok for one side but ok for the other side? Hypocrisy, for sure.

 

And what is your point about protests against the Foreign Agents act? The bill would require organizations receiving more than 20% of their funding from abroad to register as “agents of foreign influence”. I think it’s a good thing for countries to protect its own sovereignty, don’t you? It’s not dissimilar to America’s FARA Act either. 

[Gweiloman]

10 minutes ago, rabas said:

 No, not disingenuous. You ignored or missed my genuine point. 

 

I correctly showed that Ukraine's death toll cannot be way beyond Russia's rather the opposite is true and 400K Ukraine dead is likely just more Russian propaganda.  

 

How many Russians, Ukrainians, or others butcher Putin is willing to kill is a different subject. 

All this talk about propaganda, disinformation etc is really just a waste of bandwidth. Both sides engage in spreading propaganda and misinformation. When even the BBC and Mediazona reports more Ukrainian than Russian casualties over the course of the war, then I’m tempted to believe it as these are 2 pro-western organisations.

 

Ukraine doesn’t care about how many of its soldiers die. This is obvious from their actions, throwing wave after wave of relatively untrained conscripts in Bakhmut and Avdiivka. This is evident also from the embezzlement of hundreds of millions of dollars meant for the construction of fortifications in Kharkov. Instead, the Russian army casually strolled in. The supposed fortifications one sees on a pro-Ukrainian map turned out be drawn by sharpies.

 

Zelensky doesn’t care. He’s not even a native Ukrainian speaker. His native tongue is Russian. One of your war mongering senators doesn’t care. He’s on record for saying he will support the conflict to the last Ukrainian. Not related but he is also on record for encouraging Israel to drop a nuclear bomb on Gaza and he believes that America did the right thing by dropping 2 nuclear bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, killing hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians. 
 

And there are some on here that says Putin is evil. Pathetic.

[Mavideol]

Putin troops being sent on off-road motorbikes in night attacks on Ukrainian forces, say UK defence chiefs

https://au.yahoo.com/news/putin-troops-being-sent-off-145750665.html

 

[Mavideol]

On 5/13/2024 at 11:46 PM, VBer said:

I see that you kind of satisfied with this. So can you clarify your point: it is okay to bomb apartment buildings with civilians, but only with civilians of certain nationality? Am I correct ?

 

As for me, it is as a war crime, the same as it happened with Russian strikes. To justify crime of one side and make it legit only because another side also made crimes is a way to inhumanity.

let's try to clarify something, who started to bomb civilian residential areas, schools, children's hospital, can you tell us who was....do you ever an eye for an eye, that's payback, do I agree, maybe not but that will not stop Putin from keeping doing it

[Mavideol]

On 5/14/2024 at 8:20 AM, Gweiloman said:

 

Russian President Vladimir Putin has appointed Sergei Shoigu secretary of the Russian Security Council, the Kremlin’s press service reports.

“Vladimir Putin signed a decree on the Secretary of the Security Council of the Russian Federation. 1. Appoint Sergei Kuzhugetovich Shoigu as Secretary of the Security Council of the Russian Federation,” the message says.

By another decree, the Russian leader released Nikolai Patrushev resigned from this position in connection with the transition to another job.

In turn, the press secretary of the President of the Russian Federation Dmitry Peskov said that in his new post, Army General Shoigu will simultaneously be deputy president in the military-industrial complex commission, RIA Novosti reports.

“Shoigu, as secretary of the Security Council, will simultaneously be the deputy president in the military—industrial complex commission,” Peskov told reporters during a briefing.
The Kremlin spokesman added that Shoigu will also oversee the work of the Federal Service for Military-Technical Cooperation (FSMTC), which is directly subordinate to the head of state.

“You already know, earlier it was also reported that the FSVTS is being withdrawn from the Ministry of Defense under the president. And its work will also be headed and supervised by Sergei Shoigu,” Peskov said.

 

Sounds like he has been given more responsibilities.

you may be right, however the latest news report don't agree with you, I also know that you will be denying it and calling it western propaganda, go ahead and btw wasn't Prigozhin given some new post also after his attempted coup and guess what happened some time later, being promoted by Putin it's a bad hunch/omen

Sergei Shoigu: Russia’s political survivor battered by Ukraine setbacks

https://au.yahoo.com/news/sergei-shoigu-russia-political-survivor-200610862.html

Russia defense scandal deepens with arrest of new bribery suspect

The arrest of Yuri Kuznetsov signals a widening of the biggest government corruption scandal in years, two days after President Vladimir Putin unexpectedly removed Sergei Shoigu from the post of defense minister.

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/russia-defense-scandal-deepens-arrest-new-bribery-suspect-rcna152118#:~:text=The head of personnel at Russia’s Defense Ministry,discovered at his properties%2C investigators said on Tuesday.

Yevgeny Prigozhin Finally Gets His Revenge From Beyond the Grave

https://au.yahoo.com/news/yevgeny-prigozhin-finally-gets-revenge-151850576.html

 

 

Edited May 15 by Mavideol

[Bkk Brian]

The man 

 

"You need to know, the United States is with you, so much of the world is with you and they're fighting, not just for a free Ukraine, but for the free world. And the free world is with you, too."

 

 

[tgw]

8 hours ago, Gweiloman said:

All this talk about propaganda, disinformation etc is really just a waste of bandwidth. Both sides engage in spreading propaganda and misinformation.

 

 

seems you can still teach them one thing or two in that matter !

[thaibeachlovers]

20 hours ago, rabas said:

 No, not disingenuous. You ignored or missed my genuine point. 

 

I correctly showed that Ukraine's death toll cannot be way beyond Russia's rather the opposite is true and 400K Ukraine dead is likely just more Russian propaganda.  

 

How many Russians, Ukrainians, or others butcher Putin is willing to kill is a different subject. 

We live in a world of propaganda. One is somewhat foolish to believe anything either side says during a conflict.

Yes, Russians probably lose a lot of men as that is how they have always fought, but that doesn't mean that the superior Russian firepower isn't taking a high number of Ukrainian lives as well.

The truth is probably exposed by the Ukrainian admission that they are lacking in manpower, and that they are spread too thin.

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

We live in a world of propaganda. One is somewhat foolish to believe anything either side says during a conflict.

Yes, Russians probably lose a lot of men as that is how they have always fought, but that doesn't mean that the superior Russian firepower isn't taking a high number of Ukrainian lives as well.

The truth is probably exposed by the Ukrainian admission that they are lacking in manpower, and that they are spread too thin.

The main reason Ukraine is struggling so badly is the maga fascists cutting off aid. I will never forgive Russia of course for their extreme barbarity but I (and Ukrainians) will never forgive the maga fascists either.

[KhunLA]

56 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

The main reason Ukraine is struggling so badly is the maga fascists cutting off aid. I will never forgive Russia of course for their extreme barbarity but I (and Ukrainians) will never forgive the maga fascists either.

Have you forgiven NATO countries for their invade & occupy for 10-15 yrs in Iraq & Afghanistan ?  Still have some military in Iraq & Syria today.

Edited May 16 by KhunLA

[VBer]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

I love how you obviously believe that "separatist" areas are legitimately Russia. 

Then have nothing to say about the facts, speak about your opponent, right. You  invented that, I do not think that these areas legitimately Russia now.

Same as Crimea, in fact these are under control of Russia, taken against international law.

 

[BobBKK]

2 hours ago, Jingthing said:

The main reason Ukraine is struggling so badly is the maga fascists cutting off aid. I will never forgive Russia of course for their extreme barbarity but I (and Ukrainians) will never forgive the maga fascists either.

 Not our war

[BobBKK]

On 5/14/2024 at 8:22 PM, tgw said:

please stop parroting Ruzzian disinformation.

 

here is Ukraine II in the making : over 200.000 Georgians demonstrating against Russia-Law in Tbilissi (Georgia has a population of 3.7 million).

 

 

 

 Who cares about Georgians? Keep it on topic. Look at the flags behind this propagandist. When all is said and done a negotiated peace will prevail sooner or later - better SOONER.

[thaibeachlovers]

26 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

 Not our war

As I have said many times on here. Ukraine has no treaties with the US or EU, is not part of NATO and it's nothing to do with western countries, which should have done what they normally do, which is make a speech in the UN about how bad the invader is and should go sit on the naughty step for a while, then IMO go and sell lots of weapons to both sides.

 

I'm guessing but IMO the US thought it was a chance to bloody the bear's nose without American boys in bags, and of course the sycophantic EU and UK went along with it. Major miscalculation.

[thaibeachlovers]

34 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

 Not our war

Seems that "our side" or at least the so called leaders are getting into the habit of getting involved in far away wars that are nothing to do with them. Did the EU and UK have a mandate from the population to get involved in the Ukraine and the other one- no they did not, yet they took it on themselves to send lots of money that should have been spent on their own countries to buy weapons to send to a country that they have no treaties with and no obligation to help.

[Jingthing]

2 hours ago, BobBKK said:

 Not our war

That's what America First fascists said in WW2. Morons then morons now.

[Mavideol]

Russia Lost 1,510 Troops, 110 Vehicles, 23 Artillery in a Day: Kyiv

https://www.newsweek.com/russia-casualties-tanks-armored-vehicles-artillery-ukraine-kharkiv-1900735

[Hummin]

2 hours ago, Mavideol said:

Russia Lost 1,510 Troops, 110 Vehicles, 23 Artillery in a Day: Kyiv

https://www.newsweek.com/russia-casualties-tanks-armored-vehicles-artillery-ukraine-kharkiv-1900735

Russia must have lost 500 000 troops by now, and Ukraine 35 000 refered to your information?

[Hummin]

21 minutes ago, tgw said:

 

you know that Ruzzian-paid militias have bombed both sides at the time, right ?

there is a video somewhere of grad being fired in both directions.

Is those numbers realistic?

[BobBKK]

5 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Seems that "our side" or at least the so called leaders are getting into the habit of getting involved in far away wars that are nothing to do with them. Did the EU and UK have a mandate from the population to get involved in the Ukraine and the other one- no they did not, yet they took it on themselves to send lots of money that should have been spent on their own countries to buy weapons to send to a country that they have no treaties with and no obligation to help.

 That's very true, and look at Afghanistan, Vietnam, Syria, Iraq, Cuba and now Ukraine, Gaza, etc. The USA cannot help meddling worldwide - followed by their puppies in Europe.

The world is in a dire place, and WW3 is not far away if Idiots like Lindsay Graham, Macron and Blinken have their evil way. 

[Bkk Brian]

1 minute ago, BobBKK said:

 That's very true, and look at Afghanistan, Vietnam, Syria, Iraq, Cuba and now Ukraine, Gaza, etc. The USA cannot help meddling worldwide - followed by their puppies in Europe.

The world is in a dire place, and WW3 is not far away if Idiots like Lindsay Graham, Macron and Blinken have their evil way. 

More Russian talking points

[BobBKK]

1 minute ago, Bkk Brian said:

More Russian talking points

 
Nah, I'm not Russian - I'm a neutral observer - I loathe war wherever it is happening. But I have often been to Ukraine and Russia - have you, Brian?

[Hummin]

5 minutes ago, Hummin said:

Is those numbers realistic?

Thank you for your confused emotion, but to be fair, it is easy to believe those numbers is necessary propaganda for Americans to continue continue their support, and have the voters satisfied.

 

You cant have a healthy debate, if questions is not asked! 

 

The numbers of casualties is all over the place, and to be true is it realistic numbers for both sides?

[BobBKK]

On 2/25/2022 at 2:25 PM, Jingthing said:

It was quite peaceful already BEFORE Putin invaded!

 Really?  have you been to Ukraine and Russia? I have, many times

[BobBKK]

On 3/19/2022 at 1:42 PM, tgw said:

long story short, less than 2% of voters support the far-right in Ukraine.

in all countries there are always a small group of extremists.

Ukraine doesn't have a far-right problem.

But in Russia it seems the extremists have taken over the government.

 That is not true; now, the opposition is in jail, and elections are banned. Please be FACTUAL. I know it's difficult, but could you please try?  All you do is repeat MSNBC/CNN - you have probably never been to Ukraine or Russia, and you definitely do not understand the issues and history. What we need is a negotiated settlement - a neutral Ukraine and a withdrawal by Russia.

[Bkk Brian]

3 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

 
Nah, I'm not Russian - I'm a neutral observer - I loathe war wherever it is happening. But I have often been to Ukraine and Russia - have you, Brian?

Didn't claim you were Russian but you are the least neutral observer I have read on here apart from those that are not shy about hiding their Russian nationality and ties. Like I said, your post was pure Russian talking points

[BobBKK]

Just now, Bkk Brian said:

Didn't claim you were Russian but you are the least neutral observer I have read on here apart from those that are not shy about hiding their Russian nationality and ties. Like I said, your post was pure Russian talking points

 Well, I could charge you for MSNBC/CNN talking points only. This does not help anything—I am British but have extensively travelled to Russia and Ukraine. I have family in Kiev, but I was born in London.