Assault on Kiev: Russian helicopters swoop above Ukraine's capital

[Chris.B]

14 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Agreed but that does not stop them changing as in the report.

Why do we want them? What military contribution will  Switzerland be providing to defend Nato's borders? Why should we sacrifice men and weapons for the defence of Switzerland?

 

Edited May 17, 2022 by Chris.B

[GroveHillWanderer]

11 minutes ago, Chris.B said:

Why do we want them? What military contribution will  Switzerland be providing to defend Nato's borders? Why should we sacrifice men and weapons for the defence of Switzerland?

If you read the article they are really only talking about establishing somewhat closer ties to NATO - things like having discussions and possibly taking part in joint exercises.

 

There is virtually no chance of them actually joining the alliance, so the question of invoking Article 5 would not arise.

[Bkk Brian]

19 minutes ago, Chris.B said:

Why do we want them? What military contribution will  Switzerland be providing to defend Nato's borders? Why should we sacrifice men and weapons for the defence of Switzerland?

 

Did you read the report? Its not just about Nato its about its whole neutral status They can backfill munitions for the effort in Ukraine. Any effort to help Ukraine is welcome although perhaps Putin would not agree

 

"The defence ministry will also contribute to a broader study being prepared by the foreign ministry. That project will look at the adoption of sanctions, weapons, munitions exports"

Edited May 17, 2022 by Bkk Brian

[placeholder]

1 hour ago, Chris.B said:

Why do we want them? What military contribution will  Switzerland be providing to defend Nato's borders? Why should we sacrifice men and weapons for the defence of Switzerland?

 

Did you miss this part of the article?

"The defence ministry is drawing up a report on security options that include joint military exercises with NATO countries and "backfilling" munitions, Paelvi Pulli, head of security policy at the Swiss defence ministry told Reuters."

Where does it say that the joint exercises are going to be about defending Switzerland's borders? Which of its neighbors does Switzerland fear pose a military threat to its sovereignty? France? Germany? Italy? Austria? Lichtenstein?

[coolcarer]

1 hour ago, Bkk Brian said:

Vlad showing his award received from Jens Stoltenborg was well deserved, he's a genius ????

 

Analysis: Neutral Switzerland leans closer to NATO in response to Russia

 

BERN, May 15 (Reuters) - Switzerland's fabled neutral status is about to face its biggest test in decades, with the defence ministry tilting closer to Western military powers in response to Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

The defence ministry is drawing up a report on security options that include joint military exercises with NATO countries and "backfilling" munitions, Paelvi Pulli, head of security policy at the Swiss defence ministry told Reuters.

 

https://www.reuters.com/markets/europe/neutral-switzerland-leans-closer-nato-response-russia-2022-05-15/

Bravo the Swiss, a historic shift in attitude being discussed openly as a direct result of Putin’s aggression. Another shot in the foot for the self styled denazification war. Keep it up

[Chris.B]

10 minutes ago, heybruce said:

Huh?  Are you claiming that "not to long ago" nobody thought Russia would attack another country?

Well Ukraine didn't before 2014! ....and nobody else did before February this year!

????

[GroveHillWanderer]

3 minutes ago, Chris.B said:

Well Ukraine didn't before 2014! ....and nobody else did before February this year!

????

That's totally untrue. The US for one, had been predicting the Russian invasion for months before it happened.

 

Here's just one example from December 2021.

 

US intelligence finds Russia planning Ukraine offensive

[Chris.B]

Just now, GroveHillWanderer said:

That's totally untrue. The US for one, had been predicting the Russian invasion for months before it happened.

 

Here's just one example from December 2021.

 

US intelligence finds Russia planning Ukraine offensive

"For months"... hahahaha 

[Lacessit]

Perhaps this thread needs a new title, because the assault on Kiev is now ancient history. Russian tactics and logistics in that attack will be studied for decades by military colleges as an example of what NOT to do when attempting a blitzkrieg. They have been rolled back from Kharkiv, the butcher's bill of Russian soldiers stands at anywhere between 15,000 and 30,000, with probably double that wounded.

 

The only hope for Russia in Ukraine now is to negotiate a ceasefire, so they can consolidate the territorial gains in the Donbas. I doubt the Ukrainians will come to the party, they have every reason to hate Russians.

 

Meantime, on the economic front Russia will become a basket case for decades. Most foreign companies will not deal with Russia now, even the Chinese will tread warily. All industries will be forced to cannibalize equipment to keep going, because new spares won't be coming in. Expect several domestic airline crashes in the coming year or two. Every European nation is straining to reduce their dependence on Russian oil and gas.

 

IMO the only hope for the Russian people is for Putin to be toppled. That's a big ask, because the majority have been brainwashed into believing he is a national hero, instead of the thief and murderer he really is.

 

I don't know if the leaders of other countries have the stomach for it, but another option is to invite Putin to the G20. As soon as he sets foot outside Russia, arrest him, and haul him off to the Hague for trial as a war criminal.

[metisdead]

Some off topic deflection posts and replies have been removed.

[Chomper Higgot]

2 hours ago, Chris.B said:

Why do we want them? What military contribution will  Switzerland be providing to defend Nato's borders? Why should we sacrifice men and weapons for the defence of Switzerland?

 

Take a look at a map and see if you can figure out which nations’ territory/airspace would need to be crossed in order to attack Switzerland.

 

An attack on Switzerland from a none NATO nation is inherently a violation of NATO territory / airspace.

Edited May 17, 2022 by Chomper Higgot

[heybruce]

56 minutes ago, Chris.B said:

Well Ukraine didn't before 2014! ....and nobody else did before February this year!

????

Georgia 2008   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Georgian_War

 

Moldova 1992   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transnistria_War

 

The Baltic states joined NATO in 2004 to because they feared Russia would someday try to occupy them.

 

And, as noted, warnings about Russia's intention to invade Ukraine started months before the actual invasion.

 

I don't know if there was any time in the history of Russia when surrounding states didn't fear an invasion.  Remember, before the USSR it was the Russian Empire.

[transam]

11 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

I beg to differ, rape and murder as used by the Russians as a tool of terror in Ukraine is very much on topic.

I was referring to his dig at Switzerland over an individual, nothing else..

[Bkk Brian]

After Rand Paul's pathetic delay it looks like the $40 Billion will be through this week so Ukraine can rely on the US effort and military aid against the barbarians.

 

The US Senate voted on Monday to advance $40 billion more aid for Ukraine in its war against Russia, setting the stage for a vote on the bill possibly later this week, after the military and humanitarian assistance was delayed due to opposition from one Republican senator.

The tally was 81 to 11 on the first of a possible three procedural votes paving the way for final Senate passage of the funding.

[Lacessit]

3 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

After Rand Paul's pathetic delay it looks like the $40 Billion will be through this week so Ukraine can rely on the US effort and military aid against the barbarians.

 

 

Possibly the best book ever written on Russia was by Sir Laurens van der Post, "Journey into Russia". In it, he makes the point Russians were a society kept on the run for centuries by the Mongols and Tartars, and hence never got the chance to coalesce from tribalism into a civilized nation as we know it. That's why Putin is successful in their eyes, a strong leader.

 

Russia has thrown up giants in various fields, Dostoevsky,Tolstoy, Tchaikovsky, Sakharov, Pasternak, Nureyev and so on. Having said that, their actions in Ukraine demonstrate at heart, they are still savages.

[GroveHillWanderer]

3 hours ago, Chris.B said:

"For months"... hahahaha 

Yes, months. You claimed that "nobody" thought Russia would attack Ukraine, "before February this year."

 

This is patently untrue.

[placeholder]

3 hours ago, Chris.B said:

Well Ukraine didn't before 2014! ....and nobody else did before February this year!

????

An article from Nov 17, 2021

The world is worried Putin is about to invade Ukraine

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/11/17/the-world-is-worried-putin-is-about-to-invade-ukraine-heres-why.html

[coolcarer]

All coming along nicely.

 

@POTUS signed the Ukraine Democracy Defense Lend-Lease Act, providing another tool we can use to provide security assistance quickly to ????????. Our allies & partners are also doing their part, and we recognize their efforts 

https://twitter.com/usosce/status/1526502523359612929?s=21&t=1cQ1tVHJGnvJc9RSP4Ptsw

 

[Chris.B]

54 minutes ago, coolcarer said:

All coming along nicely.

 

@POTUS signed the Ukraine Democracy Defense Lend-Lease Act, providing another tool we can use to provide security assistance quickly to ????????. Our allies & partners are also doing their part, and we recognize their efforts 

https://twitter.com/usosce/status/1526502523359612929?s=21&t=1cQ1tVHJGnvJc9RSP4Ptsw

 

Germany and France are doing their part? BS.

 

[farmerjo]

4 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

After Rand Paul's pathetic delay it looks like the $40 Billion will be through this week so Ukraine can rely on the US effort and military aid against the barbarians.

 

The US Senate voted on Monday to advance $40 billion more aid for Ukraine in its war against Russia, setting the stage for a vote on the bill possibly later this week, after the military and humanitarian assistance was delayed due to opposition from one Republican senator.

The tally was 81 to 11 on the first of a possible three procedural votes paving the way for final Senate passage of the funding.

Mr Paul said he wanted an inspector general to be appointed to oversee the funds,

 

Sensible,if it was my money i would want the same.

 

[candide]

55 minutes ago, Chris.B said:

Germany and France are doing their part? BS.

 

It's all here. Germany is not that bad, but France's military contribution doesn't seem to be high. Actually It's more complex than that as the EU is also financing arms purchase and it is not included. 

It also depends whether one considers absolute value or % of GDP. On this criteria some Eastern European countries are very well positioned.

Another limitation is that statistics are based on commitments (= promises) and not on actual deliveries. 

https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/?cookieLevel=not-set

Edited May 17, 2022 by candide

[Jingthing]

23 minutes ago, farmerjo said:

Mr Paul said he wanted an inspector general to be appointed to oversee the funds,

 

Sensible,if it was my money i would want the same.

 

The context is the man is an extreme isolationist in the shameful spirit of Henry Ford and Charles Lindbergh in WW2. Also a history of Putin admiration.

[coolcarer]

1 hour ago, farmerjo said:

Mr Paul said he wanted an inspector general to be appointed to oversee the funds,

 

Sensible,if it was my money i would want the same.

 

“Mr” Paul has wanted a lot of things in the past much of it featured on Russian RT news along with his father who are both Putin apologists

[coolcarer]

1 hour ago, Chris.B said:

Germany and France are doing their part? BS.

 

All you seem to be doing today is criticizing other countries and the support they offer. I have no doubt France and Germany could do more as could a lot of other countries but what they are supplying is not insignificant. France 2 Billion Euros in supporting Ukraine in its fight with Russian armed forces. Germany over 1  Billion euros plus newly announced heavy artillery and tanks.

 

https://www.rfi.fr/en/france/20220505-france-pledges-€2bn-for-ukraine-s-resistance-against-russian-troops
https://www.thedefensepost.com/2022/04/17/germany-military-aid-ukraine/

[Bkk Brian]

G7 Finance Ministers Plan 15 Billion Euros in Aid for Ukraine - German Official

 

BERLIN (Reuters) - The finance ministers of the Group of Seven economic powers want to put together a 15 billion euro ($15.80 billion) aid package for Ukraine at their meeting in Bonn this week, a senior German government official said on Tuesday.

 

Terror-stricken Russians anticipate the delivery of foreign arms to the Armed Forces of Ukraine - conversation intercepted by the Security Service of Ukraine

 

The Security Service of Ukraine has published another intercepted conversation between Russian soldiers. In that conversation, the aggressors express their envy that Ukrainians have Bayraktars (medium-altitude long-range unmanned combat aerial vehicles), and they are terror-stricken at the prospect of the delivery of foreign weapons to the Armed Forces of Ukraine.

[farmerjo]

8 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

G7 Finance Ministers Plan 15 Billion Euros in Aid for Ukraine - German Official

 

BERLIN (Reuters) - The finance ministers of the Group of Seven economic powers want to put together a 15 billion euro ($15.80 billion) aid package for Ukraine at their meeting in Bonn this week, a senior German government official said on Tuesday.

 

Terror-stricken Russians anticipate the delivery of foreign arms to the Armed Forces of Ukraine - conversation intercepted by the Security Service of Ukraine

 

The Security Service of Ukraine has published another intercepted conversation between Russian soldiers. In that conversation, the aggressors express their envy that Ukrainians have Bayraktars (medium-altitude long-range unmanned combat aerial vehicles), and they are terror-stricken at the prospect of the delivery of foreign weapons to the Armed Forces of Ukraine.

At a meeting of G7 finance ministers next week, the G7 countries want to initiate budget support for Ukraine worth nearly 30 billion euros -Spiegel

 

https://twitter.com/iuliiamendel/status/1525121717848489984?s=21&t=kXVAm3fKi3TERjDGSV0Ugg

 

What a couple of days difference makes in the press.

[Bkk Brian]

7 minutes ago, farmerjo said:

At a meeting of G7 finance ministers next week, the G7 countries want to initiate budget support for Ukraine worth nearly 30 billion euros -Spiegel

 

https://twitter.com/iuliiamendel/status/1525121717848489984?s=21&t=kXVAm3fKi3TERjDGSV0Ugg

 

What a couple of days difference makes in the press.

Do you have a link to the Spiegel article, headlines only can often be deceiving?

 

The 15 Billion announced today is only for the next 3 months there will be much more to come.

[farmerjo]

On 5/13/2022 at 10:22 PM, coolcarer said:

Try again

 

At a meeting of G7 finance ministers next week, the G7 countries want to initiate budget support for Ukraine worth nearly 30 billion euros -Spiegel

 

https://twitter.com/iuliiamendel/status/1525121717848489984?s=21&t=kXVAm3fKi3TERjDGSV0Ugg

 

Sorry you will have to ask him.

Edited May 17, 2022 by farmerjo

[Bkk Brian]

1 minute ago, farmerjo said:

 

Link to the article for context, all you've done is post the twitter headline.........again? While that is from a verified account I repeat the headline does not always give the full picture does it?

[Bkk Brian]

7 minutes ago, farmerjo said:

Sorry you will have to ask him.

Why? I have already posted an update, the latest announcement published today, your the one that brought up an old headline

Edited May 17, 2022 by Bkk Brian