19 minutes ago, Saanim said:

And the casualties had been reported over the last 8 years by OSCE Ukraine Monitoring Mission (not really a "Russian propaganda") up to their very last reports in February 2022, unless they were ordered out of the country. 

 

The reports about their early years after 2014  (not really pleasant) were reported even in Western media, not so much in the later years.   

Here's another piece of news vis-a-vis the OCSE and the Russian backed separatists that clearly has escaped your notice:

Fate of OSCE personnel detained in separatist-controlled areas of eastern Ukraine hangs by a thread

Russian proxies continue to hold OSCE Ukrainian staff captive in pro-Russian separatist territories in Ukraine’s east, the OSCE said in a statement on Wednesday.

The OSCE evacuated its international staff members, who had been seconded by OSCE participating States to the OSCE Special Monitoring Mission (SMM), from Ukraine after Russia’s invasion. Many local Ukrainian staff members, however, remained in the country.

“The continuous allegations made against the SMM’s Mission members have become increasingly outrageous,” said OSCE Secretary General Helga Schmid.

https://www.shrmonitor.org/fate-of-osce-personnel-detained-in-separatist-controlled-areas-of-eastern-ukraine-hangs-by-a-thread/

 

And another...

OSCE mission in eastern Ukraine suspends operations amid protests

he Organization for Security and Cooperation on Europe has suspended its monitoring mission in eastern Ukraine following protests near its headquarters in separatist-controlled Donetsk, the chief monitor said on Sunday.

About 200 pro-Russian protesters confronted OSCE monitors on Saturday to demand the release of a rebel officer captured by the Ukrainian military last week. The mission had faced previous protests organised by Moscow-backed separatists, but this time demonstrators appeared to block the entrance to the hotel where the monitors are based. 

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/osce-mission-eastern-ukraine-suspends-operations-amid-protests-2021-10-17/

1 hour ago, Saanim said:

The civilian casualties in Russian controlled territory? It's still Ukraine territory, isn't it? 

 

And the casualties had been reported over the last 8 years by OSCE Ukraine Monitoring Mission (not really a "Russian propaganda") up to their very last reports in February 2022, unless they were ordered out of the country. 

 

The reports about their early years after 2014  (not really pleasant) were reported even in Western media, not so much in the later years.   

unbelievable how much non sense you post and on top of that you don't provide any links to that non sense posts, what a joyful life you must have not having to deal with facts and reality

2 hours ago, placeholder said:

You want to know what happened to the OSCE Ukraine Monitoring Mission? Guess what? The Russian Federation ruled out an extension of their mission

As I said before there had been many reports of OSCE Ukraine Monitoring Mission before end of February 2022, many of them still is obtainable by a search, e.g.:

https://www.osce.org/files/f/documents/e/7/233896.pdf

 

And that the Mission personnel had left with their white SUV's in the February days before the Russians started everybody could see on all world news those days.

 

Why they left and who gave the order? That can be also found, I guess. Not so illogical to further keep them when they were still issuing their reports, e.g. https://www.osce.org/special-monitoring-mission-to-ukraine/512872

 

That the months afterwards the situation has changed, also the statements, is also not so surprising, is it?   

   

16 minutes ago, Saanim said:

As I said before there had been many reports of OSCE Ukraine Monitoring Mission before end of February 2022, many of them still is obtainable by a search, e.g.:

https://www.osce.org/files/f/documents/e/7/233896.pdf

 

And that the Mission personnel had left with their white SUV's in the February days before the Russians started everybody could see on all world news those days.

 

Why they left and who gave the order? That can be also found, I guess. Not so illogical to further keep them when they were still issuing their reports, e.g. https://www.osce.org/special-monitoring-mission-to-ukraine/512872

 

That the months afterwards the situation has changed, also the statements, is also not so surprising, is it?   

   

The OSCE evacuated because it was unsafe due to the Russian invasion but you know that already.

 

Have you gone through those reports? Do you really know how many civilians have been killed in that 8 year period and by who?

 

in 2014 the Russian backed separatists formed militias with Russian forces, although Russia claimed they were there voluntarily, then took over government buildings. The ensuing chaos and war was brutal. 

 

However there have already been far more civilians killed in Ukraine since 24th Feb by the Russians than in the whole of that 8 year period.  For the period 2014 through to Dec 2021 the official number (UNHR) of civilians killed was 3,404 with 306 of those being foreign. The vast majority of those deaths were in 2014/15 with the numbers going down each year after. In 2020, 26 civilians were killed and by 2021 it was 25.

 

Links to UN and OSCE sources in the below article

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Russo-Ukrainian_War

 

 

2 hours ago, Saanim said:

As I said before there had been many reports of OSCE Ukraine Monitoring Mission before end of February 2022, many of them still is obtainable by a search, e.g.:

https://www.osce.org/files/f/documents/e/7/233896.pdf

 

And that the Mission personnel had left with their white SUV's in the February days before the Russians started everybody could see on all world news those days.

 

Why they left and who gave the order? That can be also found, I guess. Not so illogical to further keep them when they were still issuing their reports, e.g. https://www.osce.org/special-monitoring-mission-to-ukraine/512872

 

That the months afterwards the situation has changed, also the statements, is also not so surprising, is it?   

   

simple question..... if you were a member of the OSCE would you have stayed, back in February 2022,  after Russia started to sending bombs all around Ukraine

2 hours ago, Saanim said:

As I said before there had been many reports of OSCE Ukraine Monitoring Mission before end of February 2022, many of them still is obtainable by a search, e.g.:

https://www.osce.org/files/f/documents/e/7/233896.pdf

 

And that the Mission personnel had left with their white SUV's in the February days before the Russians started everybody could see on all world news those days.

 

Why they left and who gave the order? That can be also found, I guess. Not so illogical to further keep them when they were still issuing their reports, e.g. https://www.osce.org/special-monitoring-mission-to-ukraine/512872

 

That the months afterwards the situation has changed, also the statements, is also not so surprising, is it?   

   

The report you cited was not created by the OSCE Ukraine Monitoring Mission. Rather the OSCE published the report of The Foundation for the Study of Democracy headed by a certain Maksim Grigoriev. This is the same Grigoriev who published an expose claiming that it was the White Helmets in Syria responsible for poison gas attacks. Not Russia nor the Syrian govt. It is to laugh. He's a Russian apparatchik.

And even if this report were true, it does nothing to refute the fact that Russia interfered with the work of the OCSE by, among other things, restricting its monitoring to 2 border crossings even though the border between Russian and Eastern Ukraine extends for hundreds of miles. Nor would that report contradict the reports of the OSCE re separatist transgressions.

 

And as the article I linked to pointed out, the OCSE left at the end of February 2022  because Russia refused to extend its mandate. Why is that so difficult for you to understand?

3 hours ago, Saanim said:

As I said before there had been many reports of OSCE Ukraine Monitoring Mission before end of February 2022, many of them still is obtainable by a search, e.g.:

https://www.osce.org/files/f/documents/e/7/233896.pdf 

   

Fake Ukrainophobic publications: OSCE and Russian propaganda

 

Back in June, 2015, Ukrainian economic and investigation journalist Andrii Ianitsky, published the post on Facebook informing that Maksim Grigoriev put the propagandistic materials on the tables during OSCE conference “Journalists Safety, Media Freedom and Pluralism in Times of Conflict”. He emphasized that Ukrainian journalists noticed the provocation so the oganisers had to take the “report” away. However, this “report” in English was not deleted from OSCE website.

The Foundation for the Study of Democracy is led by Maksim Grigoriev. He is the Chairman of the Coordinating Council for Public Control over Voting at the Civic Chamber of the Russian Federation. The organisation started working on discrediting the Ukrainian side in 2013

 

https://neweuropeans.net/article/3638/fake-ukrainophobic-publications-osce-and-russian-propaganda

A post with an altered quote and reply have been removed.

 

Do not change anything inside the quoted box, including by making text bold. 

21 minutes ago, Saanim said:

 

(^Bold emphasis by myself)

 

Wasn't the Russian invasion on 24th February?

  

When googled:
About 115,000 results (0.50 seconds)
OSCE monitoring mission staff pull out from eastern Ukraine

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-staff-osce-begins-pullout-donetsk-eastern-ukraine-2022-02-13/
Feb 13, 2022 � The OSCE's Special Monitoring Mission to Ukraine has been deployed in eastern Ukraine since 2014 when war broke out Ukrainian troops and ...
 

The first link of Reuters, however,  sorry:

Access Denied

Our apologies, the content you requested cannot be accessed.

Your constant misinformation is getting boring:

 

The Reuters article you quoted is online and clearly states it began:

 

DONETSK, Ukraine, Feb 13 (Reuters) - Staff of the Organisation for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE), which has been monitoring the situation in eastern Ukraine, began to pull out of the rebel-held city of Donetsk on Sunday as fears of a possible Russian invasion grew.

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-staff-osce-begins-pullout-donetsk-eastern-ukraine-2022-02-13/

 

You can also access the same article via this site and it goes onto say:

 

(OSCE), which has been monitoring the situation in eastern Ukraine, began to pull out of the rebel-held city of Donetsk on Sunday as fears of a possible Russian invasion grew. The OSCE said in a statement that "certain participating states" had told their citizens at the mission to leave within the next days. It did not name the countries but said the mission would carry on with its work.

https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2022-02-13/u-s-staff-of-osce-begins-pullout-from-donetsk-in-eastern-ukraine

 

In addition on the 24th Feb The OSCE issued its official statement of full evacuation as I stated in a previous post to you:

 

Statement of the Secretary General on the temporary evacuation of OSCE staff from Ukraine

VIENNA 24 February 2022

Due to the ongoing fighting and deteriorated security situation in Ukraine, in coordination with the Chairman-in-Office, I have decided to temporarily evacuate all international mission members from Ukraine as soon as possible.

https://www.osce.org/secretary-general/512953

 

 

 

I'd say we have at least one member on here who has taken up the call:

 

Zelensky warns of ‘media terror’ of propaganda, disinformation amid Russian invasion

BY JARED GANS - 07/16/22 5:42 PM ET

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky warned against the “media terror” that he says is coming from Russian propaganda and disinformation amid Russia’s invasion of Ukraine in an address on Saturday. 

Throughout the war, Russia has mounted an intense disinformation campaign, accusing the Ukrainian government of committing genocide as a false pretense for its invasion and exaggerating Russian military successes.

 

https://thehill.com/policy/international/3562666-zelensky-warns-of-media-terror-of-propaganda-disinformation-amid-russian-invasion/

A sad day in History

On this day, 17th July 2014 Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 was shot out of the sky when flying at 33,000 feet. 283 passengers and 15 crew died. The plane was shot down over Pro Russian Separatist controlled Donbas with a Russian Buk missile.

 

https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-55b856fc5d338fb2b97d5b639d8258a2

just say no to Rashism

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rashism

A sad every day occurrence in Ukraine, I hope the Putin fanboy's watch and read....????

 

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/evil-cannot-win-killed-russian-132318796.html

Tweet from BBC monitoring reporter ???? A snippet from the vid (paraphrase) "in memory of our son we bought a nice white car so we can go to the cemetery to visit"

 

VIDEO with English subs

You couldn't make this up Last night Russian state TV ran a report on the unexpected 'benefits' of having your son killed in Ukraine You can buy a Lada with the compensation given to you by the state!

 

 

Putin is creating his very own “Hitler jugend”:

 

https://www.newsweek.com/putin-youth-movement-teach-russian-children-national-principles-1724624

Russian Air Force ‘desperate’ says RAF Air Marshal

 

"the Russian Air Force just doesn’t seem to even want to begin to think about establishing the sort of air campaign we would consider as a pretty essential thing to be doing, and as you’ve suggested they are using their aircraft largely over territory that they control and where they clearly feel safe. Beyond that, they’re using it would appear, a range of guided and semi-guided rockets now in what you’d have to say just looks like a terror campaign.

 

Stringer added, “The Russia of today is a gangster-state”.

 

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/russian-air-force-desperate-says-raf-air-marshall/

So this explains everything........lol

 

Russia Says It’s Losing Because Ukraine Has Experimental Mutant Troops Created in Secret Biolabs

 

Nearly five months into its senseless war against Ukraine, Russia has concocted a wild new explanation for why the Kremlin’s plans for a quick takeover fell apart so spectacularly—because Ukrainian troops were turned into superhuman killing machines during “secret experiments” in American-run biolabs, of course.

 

Never mind the myriad reports of Russian troops refusing to fight by the thousands, sabotaging their own shoddy equipment and even deliberately wounding themselves to abandon the war, Russian lawmakers claim the real setback for Moscow was “drugged up” Ukrainian soldiers.

 

Konstantin Kosachev, the deputy speaker of Russia’s Federation Council, and Irina Yarovaya, deputy chair of the State Duma, touted what they described as bombshell findings from the “investigation.”

 

Lots of details to the claims here................????

https://www.yahoo.com/news/russia-says-losing-because-ukraine-104546288.html

36 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

So this explains everything........lol

 

Russia Says It’s Losing Because Ukraine Has Experimental Mutant Troops Created in Secret Biolabs

 

Nearly five months into its senseless war against Ukraine, Russia has concocted a wild new explanation for why the Kremlin’s plans for a quick takeover fell apart so spectacularly—because Ukrainian troops were turned into superhuman killing machines during “secret experiments” in American-run biolabs, of course.

 

Never mind the myriad reports of Russian troops refusing to fight by the thousands, sabotaging their own shoddy equipment and even deliberately wounding themselves to abandon the war, Russian lawmakers claim the real setback for Moscow was “drugged up” Ukrainian soldiers.

 

Konstantin Kosachev, the deputy speaker of Russia’s Federation Council, and Irina Yarovaya, deputy chair of the State Duma, touted what they described as bombshell findings from the “investigation.”

 

Lots of details to the claims here................????

https://www.yahoo.com/news/russia-says-losing-because-ukraine-104546288.html

Not even smart! If Russian troops believe it, they will be more afraid of Ukrainians than before.

14 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

Russian Air Force ‘desperate’ says RAF Air Marshal

 

"the Russian Air Force just doesn’t seem to even want to begin to think about establishing the sort of air campaign we would consider as a pretty essential thing to be doing, and as you’ve suggested they are using their aircraft largely over territory that they control and where they clearly feel safe. Beyond that, they’re using it would appear, a range of guided and semi-guided rockets now in what you’d have to say just looks like a terror campaign.

 

Stringer added, “The Russia of today is a gangster-state”.

 

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/russian-air-force-desperate-says-raf-air-marshall/

Syria comes to mind... the completely/unnecessarily raised to the ground cities & towns regardless of the atrocities committed

4 hours ago, Mavideol said:

Syria comes to mind... the completely/unnecessarily raised to the ground cities & towns regardless of the atrocities committed

It’s the only way they know how to wage war: just bomb the hell out of everything and everybody. And that’s exactly what the Russian artillery is doing right now in Ukraine.

On 7/19/2022 at 9:34 PM, Bkk Brian said:

Russian Air Force ‘desperate’ says RAF Air Marshal

 

"the Russian Air Force just doesn’t seem to even want to begin to think about establishing the sort of air campaign we would consider as a pretty essential thing to be doing, and as you’ve suggested they are using their aircraft largely over territory that they control and where they clearly feel safe. Beyond that, they’re using it would appear, a range of guided and semi-guided rockets now in what you’d have to say just looks like a terror campaign.

 

Stringer added, “The Russia of today is a gangster-state”.

 

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/russian-air-force-desperate-says-raf-air-marshall/

Hot on the heels of the RAF statement comes this.....????

 

They Did It Again: Russia Shoots Down Another Of Its Own Jets — Were They Aiming At An American Rocket?

 

A day after ignominiously shooting down one of their own top-end Su-34M jets, Russian surface-to-air crews seem to have repeated the mistake, this time apparently knocking a Russian Su-35 out of the sky.

The loss of an $85m Su-35 is an even bigger embarrassment than the previous loss of a $36m Su-34 bomber. The Su-35 is one of Russia’s most advanced fighters, a ‘supermaneuverable’ evolution of the Su-27 It is packed with advanced sensors and armed with a built-in cannon and twelve hardpoints for air-to-air missiles, and can also attack ground targets.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidhambling/2022/07/20/they-did-it-again-russia-shoots-down-another-of-its-own-jets--are-american-rockets-confusing-them/

On 7/17/2022 at 7:48 PM, transam said:

A sad every day occurrence in Ukraine, I hope the Putin fanboy's watch and read....????

 

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/evil-cannot-win-killed-russian-132318796.html

Yes heart breaking and for what?Just one mentally ill little man named Putin.  I just wonder what goes thru his head every time he picks up his new baby daughter.

It has been more quiet here on the pro Putin front,maybe they finally start to realize there is no defending what is going on.

2 hours ago, jvs said:

It has been more quiet here on the pro Putin front,maybe they finally start to

realize there is no defending what is going on.

Don’t get your hopes up, they’ll come crawling back out of the woodwork soon enough to defend their hero Putin and everything he does to defend mother Russia and Russian interests. They’re like Trump supporters, completely blind to the truth and living in a fact free world. 

1 hour ago, rudi49jr said:

Don’t get your hopes up, they’ll come crawling back out of the woodwork soon enough to defend their hero Putin and everything he does to defend mother Russia and Russian interests. They’re like Trump supporters, completely blind to the truth and living in a fact free world. 

No, they usually just deflect off on to other topics.  In short, they go silent.  The point is, they are still around and still capable of damaging the cause of the Ukrainian people.   

6 hours ago, Credo said:

No, they usually just deflect off on to other topics.  In short, they go silent.  The point is, they are still around and still capable of damaging the cause of the Ukrainian people.   

What nonsense I still just monitoring the war situation I'm not pro Putin.

What happens here if you have opinion on the wider picture of the war in Ukraine  you are vilified by the hi-jackers of Chris.B thread. 

1 hour ago, Kwasaki said:

just monitoring the war situation

Priceless…

Russia's got a problem recruiting more troops and we've all heard about the enforced conscription of Ukrainians in temporarily occupied territory that's been happening. Forcing Ukrainians to fight their own people. 

 

Here's some video evidence of just that:

 

‘They hunt us like stray cats’: pro-Russia separatists step up forced conscription as losses mount

 

Footage emerges of Ukrainian citizens in occupied Donbas being press-ganged to fight for Moscow. Pro-Russia separatist forces have stepped up the forced conscription of men – including Ukrainian passport holders – in occupied areas of the Donbas region, amid mounting evidence of the scale of losses on the Russian side.

 

According to credible evidence from the region, forced conscription – already a feature of the Russian-backed separatists’ rule before the Kremlin’s invasion on 24 February – appeared to have picked up again in June, with checkpoints and patrols, some reportedly involving Chechen fighters allied to the Kremlin, on the lookout for men to recruit.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jul/20/pro-russian-separatists-step-up-forced-conscription-as-losses-mount

 

 

41 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Russia's got a problem recruiting more troops and we've all heard about the enforced conscription of Ukrainians in temporarily occupied territory that's been happening. Forcing Ukrainians to fight their own people. 

 

Here's some video evidence of just that:

 

‘They hunt us like stray cats’: pro-Russia separatists step up forced conscription as losses mount

 

Footage emerges of Ukrainian citizens in occupied Donbas being press-ganged to fight for Moscow. Pro-Russia separatist forces have stepped up the forced conscription of men – including Ukrainian passport holders – in occupied areas of the Donbas region, amid mounting evidence of the scale of losses on the Russian side.

 

According to credible evidence from the region, forced conscription – already a feature of the Russian-backed separatists’ rule before the Kremlin’s invasion on 24 February – appeared to have picked up again in June, with checkpoints and patrols, some reportedly involving Chechen fighters allied to the Kremlin, on the lookout for men to recruit.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jul/20/pro-russian-separatists-step-up-forced-conscription-as-losses-mount

 

 

I didn’t know this. Just goes to show that they will stoop to any low to achieve their sick ambitions. Very sad indeed. 

1 hour ago, Bkk Brian said:

Russia's got a problem recruiting more troops and we've all heard about the enforced conscription of Ukrainians in temporarily occupied territory that's been happening. Forcing Ukrainians to fight their own people. 

 

Here's some video evidence of just that:

 

‘They hunt us like stray cats’: pro-Russia separatists step up forced conscription as losses mount

 

Footage emerges of Ukrainian citizens in occupied Donbas being press-ganged to fight for Moscow. Pro-Russia separatist forces have stepped up the forced conscription of men – including Ukrainian passport holders – in occupied areas of the Donbas region, amid mounting evidence of the scale of losses on the Russian side.

 

According to credible evidence from the region, forced conscription – already a feature of the Russian-backed separatists’ rule before the Kremlin’s invasion on 24 February – appeared to have picked up again in June, with checkpoints and patrols, some reportedly involving Chechen fighters allied to the Kremlin, on the lookout for men to recruit.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jul/20/pro-russian-separatists-step-up-forced-conscription-as-losses-mount

 

 

 more trouble on the horizon for Vlad.... he's showing weakness by asking Iran for help, Chechens may have sensed it

 

https://www.foxnews.com/world/putin-faces-second-war-front-chechens-threaten-new-offensive-russia

Putin faces second war front as Chechens threaten new offensive in Russia