36 minutes ago, FritsSikkink said:

There is another "treaty" between Russia and Ukraine about amongst things:

Ukraine will get rid of his nuclear weapons [I added emphasis]

Ukraine will not join NATO

Ukraine will decrease the size of their army from about 900K to 300K (not sure about these numbers)

Ukraine surrendered their nuclear weapons with the promise from Russia that their autonomy and sovereignty would be protected.

So much for Russian promises.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum_on_Security_Assurances

This headline makes me feel sick … You won’t be getting much Russian Money any more … Maybe TAT will give you some of their tourist pool ….. people won’t forget and Temples are viewed only once

12 hours ago, cliobkk said:

can do .... all transaction will be in Rubles only....or Ukrainian Hryvnias...

I do have empathy for the Russian and Ukrainian tourists and non tourist stranded around the world, not only those in Thailand....

But  to state that being Neutral.... entitles to anything.... hmmm...

anyway Asean Now give , or can we see , the official quote from TAT about "Neutrality...." if none given... : bad reporting

 

Once again the idiots are trying to put Tourism above Ukrainian life

10 hours ago, Isaan sailor said:

Would Thailand stay neutral if China invaded Taiwan?  How about SEAsia?

Thailand would stay neutral on any conflict, anywhere, its the nature of the beast and especially when the aggressor is bigger than them, its in their nature, culture and history. They need to judge their stance carefully though as current global opinion is turning rapidly on nations that are just sitting back. Corporations have detected this and are behaving in their best global interests. 50% of me feels sorry for the Russian people and 50% of me thinks you get the government that you deserve. There is no doubt despite Government statements that Thailand is not reliant on tourism, that in reality they are very heavily reliant on tourism and the Russian market is important to them but the way things are going they will at some point have to make a call one way or the other and then live with that decision.

Reported off topic post removed.

13 hours ago, Victornoir said:

Thailand is right to affirm its neutrality and seek ways around it. This country took no part in the measures and intimidation that led to this war and should not take sides or suffer the consequences.

 

I think the same for Europe but I am in the extreme minority and anyway it is too late now.

It appears that the usual and predictable circles have been hood winked regarding this Russian-Ukranian affair without knowledge as to all the other unsavoury factors that are part of the mix......and largely ignored or omitted. 

Imagine that.

13 hours ago, Victornoir said:

Thailand is right to affirm its neutrality and seek ways around it. This country took no part in the measures and intimidation that led to this war and should not take sides or suffer the consequences.

 

I think the same for Europe but I am in the extreme minority and anyway it is too late now.

I have no idea which country you were born or raised in or identify with. But imagine that country was invaded for no reason other than your country wanted to enter into international agreements. Sure, you could say that NATO membership might be threatening. But why has Russia not made attachment to Russia so great to the neighbouring states that they would not be interested in EU or NATO? Russia has 11 time zones and many "client states" where there is no democracy, not much development and they have to play ball with Russia as regards how they sell their main exports, who they enter into trade agreements etc etc

I can only imagine the uproar if the UK expected either of the following:

- Republic of Ireland must join NATO

- Republic of Ireland must leave EU and join in a mini Single Market with the UK.

Imagine the further uproar if the UK decided to invade the Republic of Ireland on the basis that they were one entity for about seven hundred years or so? 

9 hours ago, Neeranam said:

Easy for you to say if your finances are not affected. 

Most of Europe will be far more affected financially, yet they did the right thing.

To Do NOTHING  when Atrocities are being committed on Innocent People makes

you complicit.   Being " Neutral " is nothing but a spineless Cop Out .

 

 

12 hours ago, Isaan sailor said:

Would Thailand stay neutral if China invaded Taiwan?  How about SEAsia?

The answer is simple YES. 

big mistake - Russians con't pay anyway.

This naive attempt to have their cake and eat it will seriously damage Thailand's international standing

the "free" world needs to make Russians aware that they are not welcome anywhere......... Regardless of their personal pleas or excuses.

14 hours ago, wensiensheng said:

So Thailand wants to help Russians circumvent western sanctions, huh.

Nobody has to circumvent any Western sanctions. China, UAE are already helping Russians Oligarch move money around. China is engaged with payment system replaced by MC/Visa. India is negotiating to buy Russian oil using Indian Rupees. China is already buying Russian oil. Thailand being a small country so stay neutral without helping the Russian government or it Oligarchs. Not sure if Thailand buys oil from Russia or not. 

We are all reading from the same hymnsheet put out the MSM and what do we know about them, they are a bunch of liars. Remember Saddam's WMDs that could attack the UK in 20 minutes and it is the same old story, worse. We in the west started this conflict with NATO expansion and funding the most corrupt government in the world, Ukraine. First they bombed Donnesk and Luansk and were about to so the same in Crimea to continue their slaughter of ethnic Russian when the Russian troops stationed there stopped them and now those people live in peace. Unfortunately this didn't happen in the other two Russian states with the Ukraine and Kiev has been killing them for the past 6 years. Well eneough is enough and Putin is acting to protect his own people.

 

Thailand know this and neutrality is the best option.

1 hour ago, Onerak said:

Nobody has to circumvent any Western sanctions. China, UAE are already helping Russians Oligarch move money around. China is engaged with payment system replaced by MC/Visa. India is negotiating to buy Russian oil using Indian Rupees. China is already buying Russian oil. Thailand being a small country so stay neutral without helping the Russian government or it Oligarchs. Not sure if Thailand buys oil from Russia or not. 

SO the makes it OK for Thailand?

1 hour ago, AllanB said:

We are all reading from the same hymnsheet put out the MSM and what do we know about them, they are a bunch of liars. Remember Saddam's WMDs that could attack the UK in 20 minutes and it is the same old story, worse. We in the west started this conflict with NATO expansion and funding the most corrupt government in the world, Ukraine. First they bombed Donnesk and Luansk and were about to so the same in Crimea to continue their slaughter of ethnic Russian when the Russian troops stationed there stopped them and now those people live in peace. Unfortunately this didn't happen in the other two Russian states with the Ukraine and Kiev has been killing them for the past 6 years. Well eneough is enough and Putin is acting to protect his own people.

 

Thailand know this and neutrality is the best option.

Regardless of what some news stations put out we all knew WMDs are a myth just s we know Russia has taken an unjustifiable invasion of a foreign country 

6 minutes ago, Thunglom said:

SO the makes it OK for Thailand?

Sure. There are thousands  of American businesses that have stopped doing businesses in Russia and also there are hundreds of American businesses that still continue to do business in Russia. I bet the picture is similar throughout the Western World. 

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/western-companies-still-operating-russia-26426115

13 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

Why should everybody jump into a war because the USA and Western Europe would like NATO to have arms directly on the Russian border? 

100% right ..This one like many others stinks of hypocrisy, the truth will hopefully prevail as history has shown .

34 minutes ago, Onerak said:

Sure. There are thousands  of American businesses that have stopped doing businesses in Russia and also there are hundreds of American businesses that still continue to do business in Russia. I bet the picture is similar throughout the Western World. 

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/western-companies-still-operating-russia-26426115

You aren't actually taking on the point? Completely off the mark

 

 

35 minutes ago, Onerak said:

Sure. There are thousands  of American businesses that have stopped doing businesses in Russia and also there are hundreds of American businesses that still continue to do business in Russia. I bet the picture is similar throughout the Western World. 

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/western-companies-still-operating-russia-26426115

there's a difference between an organisation continuing to do business with russia and a country engaging with russia. many other countries are seeking to distance themselves. guess it depends what reputation/image a country wants on the world stage.

2 hours ago, AllanB said:

We are all reading from the same hymnsheet put out the MSM and what do we know about them, they are a bunch of liars.

Remember Saddam's WMDs that could attack the UK in 20 minutes and it is the same old story, worse.

Wrong, it was 45 min. threat as it was documented in the "dossier" copied from one student's cheat sheet.

 

However, it has to be admitted, that no stone was left unturned:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/3570845.stm

1 hour ago, it is what it is said:

there's a difference between an organisation continuing to do business with russia and a country engaging with russia. many other countries are seeking to distance themselves. guess it depends what reputation/image a country wants on the world stage.

Why European  countries are not completely banning Oil and gas import from Russia? They can also ban their companies not to do business in Russia.

17 hours ago, wombat said:

The whole world will do nothing when Taiwan is taken back.

The same way the whole world did nothing when HK was taken back and all those bits of signed paper aka treaties were shown for what they were ...bits of paper.

Hong Kong was not taken back. There was no necessity to give Hong Kong away - it was not part of the lease - it belonged to Britain.  The stupid Conservative government gave it back for no good reason.  Maybe some ministers and other important people got big presents from Peking.  The reason  that we had leased the New Territories was to get sufficient fresh water for the colony (Hong Kong island).  WE now know that it is possible to desalinated sea water on a massive scale as some Middle Eastern countries do.  Hong Kong could have happily survived without the New Territories.

16 hours ago, mtls2005 said:

Worked in WW2, no reason why it wouldn't work now.

 

And thailand is not neutral, they're just appeasing Russia, at least until it "looks" bad.

 

 

Thailand was not neutral in WW2

15 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

Remember the Cuba crises? The USA threatened with nuclear arms if the Russia didn't remove their base from Cuba.

The USA is 200 years at war non stop, what does that tell you? My country is bad too.

I remember the Cuban missile crisis. The US threatened to kick ass if the missile bases were set up.  The Russians backed off and war was avoided.

 

Now that US was dreaming of having missiles based on Russia's front door, the Russian threatened to give Ukraine a kicking if they didn't back-off.

The ever-expanding 'free-world' did not back off   .........   Now the West is surprised that the sh*t has hit the fan.

that all tracks, Thailand is known to be ignorant of history, oblivious to world matters and fiscally unrealistic. I'd like to know the TAT projections for how many Russian tourists they expect to attract from this junket to Moscow, or don't they realize the Russians will be twice as tight with their rubles as the Indians with their rupees?

12 hours ago, khunPer said:

What about stranded Ukrainians..?

How many Ukranian tourists are stranded in Thailand ?

All of this work really doesn't matter if Russia decides to nationalise the leased aircraft Aeroflot uses. All indications are they will.

 

The knock on effect will be catastrophic for flyers as this will break the Cape town accord that means the relationship between leasing companies, insurance companies and the aviation industry will be shattered. Without control over the correct maintenance, these aircraft become valueless as who knows what dodgy parts the Russians will fit if not watched. That means $10's of billions will have to be written off.

 

As a result Global aircraft leasing fees will go sky high, insurance Premiums for these schemes will go sky high too, and the increased costs will have to be passed onto the flyers.

 

Secondly Leaseholders will ban the use of any aircraft they own flying into Russia and any Russian plane landing outside of Russia in the future will probably be seized to reclaim the debt owned.

 

Even if Thailand relax the rules we will probably go back to a World where long haul air travel will only be affordable by the rich and Russia will be off the map for good for tourism.

 

Either these guys are idiots or they really don't see the Tsunami that is going to break in the next 10 days. My money is on both.

20 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

Why should everybody jump into a war because the USA and Western Europe would like NATO to have arms directly on the Russian border? 

Where have Nato put arms directly on the Nato border with Russia? Russian arms appear to be moving towards those borders and Nato is being impotent.

https://eturbonews.com/3035156/russias-aeroflot-halts-all-of-its-international-flights/

 

great job TAT...spend $$ on a market that can't get here

9 hours ago, NeoDinosaw said:

Hong Kong was not taken back. There was no necessity to give Hong Kong away - it was not part of the lease - it belonged to Britain.  The stupid Conservative government gave it back for no good reason.  Maybe some ministers and other important people got big presents from Peking.  The reason  that we had leased the New Territories was to get sufficient fresh water for the colony (Hong Kong island).  WE now know that it is possible to desalinated sea water on a massive scale as some Middle Eastern countries do.  Hong Kong could have happily survived without the New Territories.

The lease was held by the UK and expired in 1997. Just like the lease for Macau, held by the Portuguese, which also expired in 1997.