Open season on foreign driver reigns

[zyphodb]

24 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

If that is the case, please explain how I have been accident-free for ten years using the left shoulder. The left shoulder IS NOT the inside lane, can't you read?

 

I agree the inside lane gets the worst potholes. Because the traffic on the left shoulder is mostly scooters, I have found it's actually the smoothest surface, except for the occasional gravel patch.

 

It's about reaction time. At 40 km/hr or less, I have plenty of time to assess and react to threats, and take avoiding actions.

 

So you are on your chosen lane, doing 100 km/hr to stay ahead of the traffic. How much reaction time do you think you have when someone behind you is closing at 150 km/hr, or someone in front of you decides to change lanes? How much time do you have for threat assessment?

 

You do it your way, I'll do it mine. Good luck, you're going to need it. Or super-fast reflexes.

The left shoulder IS the inside lane, the "shoulder" is short for hard shoulder, which is always the inside lane, what on earth are you talking about? 

 And I've been driving here, and done a lot of kilometers for ten years exclusively on motorbikes so I actually believe that I do know what I'm talking about, 40 km/hour is very slow which I said was the only safe way to ride in that lane. Doing 5,6 or 700 km rides I'm not prepared to go that slowly, nor I think would anyone else...

[Lacessit]

5 minutes ago, zyphodb said:

The left shoulder IS the inside lane, the "shoulder" is short for hard shoulder, which is always the inside lane, what on earth are you talking about? 

 And I've been driving here, and done a lot of kilometers for ten years exclusively on motorbikes so I actually believe that I do know what I'm talking about, 40 km/hour is very slow which I said was the only safe way to ride in that lane. Doing 5,6 or 700 km rides I'm not prepared to go that slowly, nor I think would anyone else...

Semantics, I'll have to disagree on your definition. There's sometimes a line dividing the inside lane from the left shoulder, maybe it does not register in your peripheral vision.

 

I'm on a scooter, a round trip of 10 km is my upper limit. You are on a motorbike, horses for courses. There is no way I would have the speed, acceleration and reflexes to stay alive in your preferred position. As Clint Eastwood said, a man's got to know his limitations.

 

I've seen quite a few foreigners here with permanent damage arising from accidents on bigger motorbikes. To me, big bikes are a lottery.

 

It would be interesting to compare the per capita death and injury statistics of scooters vs motorbikes, although that would have to be weighted against Thais who think 110 cc scooters are made to be driven at 120 km/hr.

 

If I want to travel 700 km, I'll take my car.

[treetops]

5 hours ago, zyphodb said:

The left shoulder IS the inside lane, the "shoulder" is short for hard shoulder, which is always the inside lane, what on earth are you talking about? 

That is not the definition of the hard shoulder that I've been taught.  The hard shoulder is (supposedly) a traffic free lane to the left of the inside driving lane which should be used in emergencies only.  Maybe it's different in Thailand but I think it's just they don't pay any difference to the rules unless it suits them so use it as an extra lane to drive in.

 

https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/driving-advice/what-is-the-hard-shoulder/

 

[zyphodb]

10 hours ago, treetops said:

That is not the definition of the hard shoulder that I've been taught.  The hard shoulder is (supposedly) a traffic free lane to the left of the inside driving lane which should be used in emergencies only.  Maybe it's different in Thailand but I think it's just they don't pay any difference to the rules unless it suits them so use it as an extra lane to drive in.

 

https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/driving-advice/what-is-the-hard-shoulder/

 

Which makes it the inside lane, agreed it's not supposed to be driven on, but here it doubles as the scooter lane

[Yellowtail]

1 hour ago, zyphodb said:

Which makes it the inside lane, agreed it's not supposed to be driven on, but here it doubles as the scooter lane

As I understand it, on a road with at least two lanes of traffic traveling in each direction, the inside lane, is the lane closest to the center of the road. The outside lane is the lane furthest from the center of the road, and the shoulder (if any) is outside of the outside lane. 

 

Edit: On the same the same road, although  less common, there could be shoulders inside the inside lanes as well. 

 

 

 

Edited April 27, 2022 by Yellowtail
clarity

[Yellowtail]

On 4/25/2022 at 8:25 AM, tomyami said:

Not quite the Insurance guy made it clear to my friend he was to be handed 1k for his part

Which begs the question, why did your friend not call his insurance company? 

 

In the absence of any hard evidence, it's the insurance adjuster's job to side with their client. 

[Lacessit]

11 hours ago, treetops said:

That is not the definition of the hard shoulder that I've been taught.  The hard shoulder is (supposedly) a traffic free lane to the left of the inside driving lane which should be used in emergencies only.  Maybe it's different in Thailand but I think it's just they don't pay any difference to the rules unless it suits them so use it as an extra lane to drive in.

 

https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/driving-advice/what-is-the-hard-shoulder/

 

It's the same in Australia, the left shoulder is for emergencies only, and one can be fined for traveling in it.

It IS different in Thailand. Far less nanny state rules, one of the reasons I live here.

[Yellowtail]

19 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

It's the same in Australia, the left shoulder is for emergencies only, and one can be fined for traveling in it.

It IS different in Thailand. Far less nanny state rules, one of the reasons I live here.

In the US all shoulders are for emergencies, is it not the same in Australia? 

 

[moogradod]

I am aware this might look like a stupid naive question, but nevertheless:

 

Who has the OFFICIAL right of way on a normal crossing when two vehicles meet ? The one from the right or the one from the left ?

 

I have heard all kinds of versions, including the one from my wife having completing her driving license test just recently. I am aware of the INOFFICIAL customs (the one who is faster, bigger, lorry before limousine, bicycle does not count, police before others etc). I am driving myself since some years now without accident (all in all 44 years abroad and here). I know it would be dangerous to insist on your official right irrespective of the circumstances and I know at last it would not matter anyway in normal traffic.

 

But just out of curiosity: What would be the REAL regulation even if it were ever applied (maybe in case of an insurance claim ?)

[VocalNeal]

59 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

As I understand it, on a road with at least two lanes of traffic traveling in each direction, the inside lane, is the lane closest to the center of the road. The outside lane is the lane furthest from the center of the road, and the shoulder (if any) is outside of the outside lane. 

Well this explains a lot. ???? Next you will be explaining that the ground floor is in fact the 1st floor?

 

The inside lane is the lane nearest the edge of the road????

 

 

I doubt Thailand even has such designations?

Edited April 27, 2022 by VocalNeal

[Yellowtail]

2 hours ago, VocalNeal said:

Well this explains a lot. ???? Next you will be explaining that the ground floor is in fact the 1st floor?

 

The inside lane is the lane nearest the edge of the road????

 

 

I doubt Thailand even has such designations?

This is a joke right? 

 

[jacko45k]

4 hours ago, zyphodb said:

Which makes it the inside lane, agreed it's not supposed to be driven on, but here it doubles as the scooter lane

Doubles with traffic driving the wrong way!

[moogradod]

2 hours ago, moogradod said:

I am aware .........

 

But just out of curiosity: What would be the REAL regulation even if it were ever applied (maybe in case of an insurance claim ?)

No answer to my request yet.

 

At least this was no joke nor troll intended. We really dont now for sure since there are so many contradicting opinions, by telling or in writing.

 

Or is it that no nobody else does not know as well ?

[Yellowtail]

5 minutes ago, moogradod said:

No answer to my request yet.

 

At least this was no joke nor troll intended. We really dont now for sure since there are so many contradicting opinions, by telling or in writing.

 

Or is it that no nobody else does not know as well ?

Assuming you mean two cars meeting at the intersection of two roads of the same class that are about perpendicular,  in the US it's the vehicle coming from the right, but in all honesty, how often do two vehicles get to an intersection at exactly the same time? 

 

When was the last time it happened to you? 

[moogradod]

56 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Assuming you mean two cars meeting at the intersection of two roads of the same class that are about perpendicular,  in the US it's the vehicle coming from the right, but in all honesty, how often do two vehicles get to an intersection at exactly the same time? 

 

When was the last time it happened to you? 

All assumptions correct:

Roads: Same class

Topology/Geometry: Perpendicular

 

However I live in Thailand, not in the US. In Switzerland it is the car from the right, too. In Thailand I really do not know.

 

I do not know in which type of area you live (desert ?), but I live in the city and two cars may meet in such a place at a junction at approximate the same time all the time. For me this happens several times a day. Last time it happened: yesterday, since today I am not driving. We are not talking theoretical geometry here, it is enough that the cars are not meeting within a range in which it is safe to pass the intersection at an appropriate speed. The very most standard situation you will encounter a dozens of times in a city or its surroundings.

 

Edited April 27, 2022 by moogradod

[nrasmussen]

4 hours ago, moogradod said:

I am aware this might look like a stupid naive question, but nevertheless:

 

Who has the OFFICIAL right of way on a normal crossing when two vehicles meet ? The one from the right or the one from the left ?

 

I have heard all kinds of versions, including the one from my wife having completing her driving license test just recently. I am aware of the INOFFICIAL customs (the one who is faster, bigger, lorry before limousine, bicycle does not count, police before others etc). I am driving myself since some years now without accident (all in all 44 years abroad and here). I know it would be dangerous to insist on your official right irrespective of the circumstances and I know at last it would not matter anyway in normal traffic.

 

But just out of curiosity: What would be the REAL regulation even if it were ever applied (maybe in case of an insurance claim ?)

[Yellowtail]

43 minutes ago, moogradod said:

All assumptions correct:

Roads: Same class

Topology/Geometry: Perpendicular

 

However I live in Thailand, not in the US. In Switzerland it is the car from the right, too. In Thailand I really do not know.

 

I do not know in which type of area you live (desert ?), but I live in the city and two cars may meet in such a place at a junction at approximate the same time all the time. For me this happens several times a day. Last time it happened: yesterday, since today I am not driving. We are not talking theoretical geometry here, it is enough that the cars are not meeting within a range in which it is safe to pass the intersection at an appropriate speed. The very most standard situation you will encounter a dozens of times in a city or its surroundings.

 

I live in Bangkok and drive most every day, what city do you live in?

 

Most everywhere I drive here it seems pretty clear to me who has the right-of-way. 

[Lacessit]

5 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

In the US all shoulders are for emergencies, is it not the same in Australia? 

 

The right shoulder in Australia is where the fastest traffic would be. IIRC I have occasionally seen freeways with enough room to have an emergency lane there; however, the left shoulder is far more common.

[Yellowtail]

1 minute ago, Lacessit said:

The right shoulder in Australia is where the fastest traffic would be. IIRC I have occasionally seen freeways with enough room to have an emergency lane there; however, the left shoulder is far more common.

In the US, assuming multiple lanes in the same direction, the left most lane is the considered  "fast" lane. All shoulders are emergency only. 

 

When I was a kid, the freeways in LA most all had two shoulders/emergency lanes  in each direction but these have most all been converted to traffic lanes. Lanes are narrower now as well. 

[moogradod]

17 minutes ago, nrasmussen said:

So here seems to be the final answer: The right of way has the vehicle coming from the LEFT. Thank you. Provided, the Road Traffic Act of 1979 is still in place ????, but contrary to many regulations, this rule might not change quickly. Would be a little bit like it was decided to drive on the right side instead of the left.

[moogradod]

23 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

I live in Bangkok and drive most every day, what city do you live in?

 

Most everywhere I drive here it seems pretty clear to me who has the right-of-way. 

I live in Pattaya and have driven many times in Bangkok as well. It seems to me the right of way in BKK is at times determined by the traffic flow regardless of where you want to go yourself ????. And I firmly believe that a minority of drivers will know that the vehicle coming from the left has priority given the hesitance with which they act at junctions. But better like this than accidents.

[Yellowtail]

28 minutes ago, moogradod said:

I live in Pattaya and have driven many times in Bangkok as well. It seems to me the right of way in BKK is at times determined by the traffic flow regardless of where you want to go yourself ????. And I firmly believe that a minority of drivers will know that the vehicle coming from the left has priority given the hesitance with which they act at junctions. But better like this than accidents.

If one is a busy street, and one is not, I think it safe to assume the busy street has the right-o-way. 

[richard_smith237]

5 hours ago, VocalNeal said:

Well this explains a lot. ???? Next you will be explaining that the ground floor is in fact the 1st floor?

 

The inside lane is the lane nearest the edge of the road????

 

 

I doubt Thailand even has such designations?

I agree with this.. but to avoid ambiguity and ensuing semantic argument I prefer to use ‘left most, middle, right most lanes’. 

 

The hard shoulder is simply the hard shoulder - In Thailand motorcycles potter along in this lane.

Some think it's safer and it certainly is safer IF doing 40kmh than it would be in the 'left most’ lane....

 

But, this lane is also often risky, has rain runoff, grit, potholes, is encroached by vegetation, has other vehicles edging out of blind-spots, bikes going the wrong way etc...   

 

As Laccessit (I think it was) commented - he feels safer doing 40 kmh down the shoulder - fair enough. 

I feel safer travelling at the speed or just slightly faster than the general flow of the other traffic. 

 

That said: each and every situation is different - riding style, speed etc has to be adjusted wherever we are (as does driving). 

 

 

[moogradod]

10 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

If one is a busy street, and one is not, I think it safe to assume the busy street has the right-o-way. 

What you are saying is: driving is allowed where there is free space. Could as well be applied to parking. In fact somehow this is how Thai traffic rules really work in practice. It appears even sympathetic to me since I have been living in Switzerland - where quite a different mindset exist which does not make sense all the time. Wild West - as long as everyone takes care of everybody - a free world - nice idea. And now lets open the throttles - provided no other disturbing car is in sight

[kekalot]

On 4/24/2022 at 7:02 PM, richard_smith237 said:

Then we have vehicles  speeding up to pass us, then cut across us turning left. 

this, so much.

I got passed hundreds of times by simpletons that brake in my face 2 seconds later to turn to the gas stations.

 

a little story similar to the above, one lady smashed my big bike while turning left once, she had no license, no helmet and didn't use the signal lights, turned left in my front wheel

I was told it was my fault and I had to pay 5000 baht to her cause she got banged up, then I had to pay to fix my own motorbike which I think cost 12,000

 

it was her fault, but nevermind the fact that she was legally not supposed to be on the road due to no license, no helmet etc..

basically, unless you have proof on your side, you pay.

[Lacessit]

2 hours ago, kekalot said:

this, so much.

I got passed hundreds of times by simpletons that brake in my face 2 seconds later to turn to the gas stations.

 

a little story similar to the above, one lady smashed my big bike while turning left once, she had no license, no helmet and didn't use the signal lights, turned left in my front wheel

I was told it was my fault and I had to pay 5000 baht to her cause she got banged up, then I had to pay to fix my own motorbike which I think cost 12,000

 

it was her fault, but nevermind the fact that she was legally not supposed to be on the road due to no license, no helmet etc..

basically, unless you have proof on your side, you pay.

If you want to think about it, probably was your fault because you failed to make enough allowance for her incompetence.

I not only assume everyone on Thai roads is trying to kill me, I also assume most have the smarts of an amoeba.

[Rimmer]

Troll post and reply removed

[VocalNeal]

On 4/27/2022 at 12:52 PM, jacko45k said:

Doubles with traffic driving the wrong way!

Life is a two way street????

[VocalNeal]

On 4/27/2022 at 12:39 PM, Yellowtail said:

This is a joke right? 

 

Actually it is a joke , left. The same side as driven on in Thailand and many other countries.

[richard_smith237]

On 4/27/2022 at 4:42 PM, kekalot said:

this, so much.

I got passed hundreds of times by simpletons that brake in my face 2 seconds later to turn to the gas stations.

 

a little story similar to the above, one lady smashed my big bike while turning left once, she had no license, no helmet and didn't use the signal lights, turned left in my front wheel

I was told it was my fault and I had to pay 5000 baht to her cause she got banged up, then I had to pay to fix my own motorbike which I think cost 12,000

 

it was her fault, but nevermind the fact that she was legally not supposed to be on the road due to no license, no helmet etc..

basically, unless you have proof on your side, you pay.

Sorry to hear that.

 

My next comments are not so much criticizing you, but more for others who may find themselves in a similar situation in future.
 

You paid because you agreed to.

 

The police here take the path of least resistance, that was you.
If you refused & force them to follow the law rather than follow their ‘feel sorry for’ modus-operandi which supports the person they feel bad for and try to help out, there is not much they can do.

 

I have been in the same situation, at first my fault., I disagreed, refused to accept blame (very calm, very firm), mentioned I was perfectly happy to see this progress higher. 

They tired to pin the blame on me so my insurance would pay. 
 

The mini-van (van taxi) driver also started to ‘fake an injury’.
 

As soon as the police realized I wasn’t going to fold and accept full blame the path of least resistance for them shifted. 

 

Ultimately the uninsured van who hit me was forced to pay for his own van. 

My insurance covered my car only - it was up to my insurance to go for the other driver then. 

(I didn’t want to accept any blame and allow them to take the easy smooth path out of concern for further potential repercussions of paying out more for injury / loss of earnings etc when the driver was faking injure).