"Normal" shocking in Thailand

[SunshineHarvey7]

Hi guys,

 

I have a video camera that has a non-grounded power adapter, and whenever I connect the a/c adapter, it's easy to get shocked by the chassis, which measures around 80 volts (between me and the camera when I have bare feet standing on a concrete floor). I get at least 40-60+ volts on my Macbook chassis. All this is not new and strange to us who have lived in Thailand for a while. However, a friend has a video studio here in Thailand, and he does NOT want the video staff to get shocked when they touch the camera. So ... is there any way that a building can be wired so that this issue is eliminated?

 

My friend said, "We don't have this problem in America, so I see no reason we should have it here. I want to do whatever it takes to fix the problem." He doesn't want to hear me tell him, "That's just the way it is here." I'd like to help him, but is there really anything I can do other than insisting that all cameras, laptops, and other devices must have a ground wire attached?

 

I'm sure this question might have already had a thorough discussion, and you are welcome to share a link of such a discussion with me if you have one. 

[Jotnar]

there is nothing normal about that.  

[fdsa]

I believe there is nothing normal about that as I've never had the same experience in the home country, but here in Thailand all houses I've lived in had the very same issue. I'm getting shocks when touching the aluminium lid of the laptop, when touching the steel body of the computer, etc.

And the most amusing part are sparks coming from the socket when I insert any device. Most people I've told about that said "these sparks are completely normal". LOLWUT? ????

Edited May 5, 2022 by fdsa

[bluejets]

There are many underlying issues that could present the problems you describe.

Best to get someone qualified to do some investigation as it would be impossible to define exactly from a distance on a forum.

Any "shock" from mains supply should be taken seriously and advisable not to use equipment that exibits these characteristics until such time as the probelm is defined.

[SunshineHarvey7]

39 minutes ago, fdsa said:

Most people I've told about that said "these sparks are completely normal".

That's my point. Question is, if you were building a new building, could it be wired so that you wouldn't get the typical shocking?

[SunshineHarvey7]

11 minutes ago, bluejets said:

Best to get someone qualified to do some investigation as it would be impossible to define exactly from a distance on a forum.

Are you in Chiang Mai area? Or does anyone recommend someone in Chiang Mai that could do a site consultation?

[Jotnar]

52 minutes ago, SunshineHarvey7 said:

That's my point. Question is, if you were building a new building, could it be wired so that you wouldn't get the typical shocking?

Yes, very easy, and you should never get shocked.  No such thing as typical.  All things universal; +s hooked up to +s, -s hooked up to -s, and grounded.  This from the meter to the breaker box to the outlets, all the same.   Shouldn't ever be getting those 'pops' when plugging something in.  All things grounded in box with earthing.

 

Use quality components, and test.  I always test, simply cause a short purposely, and breakers should disengage, click off, stop current, instantly.  Hot water heaters should also have click of, having a built in 'surge' protector, for lack of technical term.  Can also add an external breaker that when fluctuation is noted, it will cut power.

 

Good sparky will do it correctly.  All plugs & outlets should be the same.  Installed and wired the same.

2 prong plug, neutral will go in the left if ground is on south of outlet.  May have a white line or be ribbed,  or the actual metal prong that goes into the outlet will be wider.  Most plugs, though hard to read are labelled, or should be.

 

3 prong is easy, and if outlet is hooked up properly, then no worries.  If you a changing a plug, then you need to pay attention.  Or you'll wreak havoc on you appliance.

 

[Jotnar]

Another thing to look out for, is secure fit of plug & outlet.  It should not be loose, wiggle when in the outlet, or even come close to falling out if simply knocked on.   Loose fitting plug & outlets will possibly arc, and responsible for most home fires when the cause is electrical.

 

Most sockets, especially those cheap extension, fake surge protection cords will eventually lose their bite.  Trash them.

 

That applies for all conx, when wiring.  Screw the wire down, give it a tug, then another screw down, JIC you loosened it with the tug check.

Edited May 5, 2022 by Jotnar

[bankruatsteve]

Yah.  It is "normal' in that many Thai homes do not have proper ground to the receptacles.  And/or plugs are not 3-prong to use the ground.

 

Does the OP know the condition of his house (with reference to ground)?

[The Hammer2021]

I have never had such  an experience in 30 years living or staying in over a hundred buildings including hotels, hostels, guesthouses, condos and shop houses. It happened to a friend of mine who  contacted his landlord.

[SunshineHarvey7]

3 hours ago, bankruatsteve said:

Yah.  It is "normal' in that many Thai homes do not have proper ground to the receptacles.  And/or plugs are not 3-prong to use the ground.

 

Does the OP know the condition of his house (with reference to ground)?

I have no problem with equipment that uses a 3-prong plug. Grounded outlets work well. My original question pertains to 2-prong devices, such as many devices with ac-dc adapters. Is there any way that a building can be wired so these devices won’t have a “shocking chassis”?

[digbeth]

Things like macbook power brick, you can get power lead that grounds it, the ground contact is hidden in the connector

[Crossy]

OK, I think I know what's going on here. It's not easily fixed with building wiring I'm afraid.

 

What we are seeing is the leakage via the mains filter in the power supply, the same effect as we see with un-grounded desktop PCs. The actual leakage is very small and not hazardous in itself, but bare feet on a conductive (concrete) floor may lead to annoying tingles. I suspect that the adapter was actually designed for a grounded supply and was cheaply modified for the local market ???? 

 

Is the camera / adapter a known brand (Sony etc.)?

 

You could try reversing the plug in the outlet or replacing the adapter with a different brand. If the adapter is of the 90-250V "universal" type try running it off a 220-110V transformer.

 

You might try to find an "isolating transformer" but these are generally less than cheap and may not actually fix the issue. 

 

Otherwise, avoid using the camera with the adapter or break out the rubber flip-flops.

[SunshineHarvey7]

8 hours ago, Crossy said:

Is the camera / adapter a known brand (Sony etc.)?

 

You could try reversing the plug in the outlet

Yes, it’s the official adapter for a Sony professional camera. 
 

Tried reversing the laptop plug and the camera plug. No improvement in either case. 

[SunshineHarvey7]

8 hours ago, Crossy said:

Otherwise, avoid using the camera with the adapter or break out the rubber flip-flops.

I had already pretty much resigned myself to this approach, but my friend (who usually visits Thailand for a few weeks at a time) is having a hard time believing that there isn’ta real “fix”—especially when some who talk like experts tell him his problem is due to poor wiring. 

[digbeth]

you can run a separate ground from the chassis of the camera where there's exposed metal to the ground in the wall outlet or a known good ground

this is how most appliance in Thailand gets proper ground, as many come with Shuiko EU plug that don't make contact with the ground prongs in typical Thai receptacle 

[SunshineHarvey7]

19 minutes ago, digbeth said:

 

you can run a separate ground from the chassis of the camera where there's exposed metal to the ground in the wall outlet or a known good ground

 

I’ve suggested this approach to my friend, but I think he considers this to be just a bandaid and a nuisance if the real solution can be found in good and proper wiring. 

[Chris.B]

Wear rubber flip flops.

 

[Screaming]

You know your in a third world country when its buildings do not include ground wiring.

[bankruatsteve]

9 minutes ago, SunshineHarvey7 said:

I’ve suggested this approach to my friend, but I think he considers this to be just a bandaid and a nuisance if the real solution can be found in good and proper wiring. 

Well, the only way to stop "tingles" is by using the ground system.  Does the adapter use a Schuko plug?  If so, get a 3-pin adapter.  Available in Lazada.

[SomchaiDIY]

53 minutes ago, digbeth said:

you can run a separate ground from the chassis of the camera where there's exposed metal to the ground in the wall outlet or a known good ground

this is how most appliance in Thailand gets proper ground, as many come with Shuiko EU plug that don't make contact with the ground prongs in typical Thai receptacle 

Connecting float dc ground of electronic side to main supply ground can cause more problem.

 

If shock from isolated power adapter are problem for user best take this problem to electronic tech 

 

[Crossy]

Can you post a photo of the adaptor please, particularly the mains connectors.

 

It is odd that a pukka Sony adaptor is giving tingles.

[SunshineHarvey7]

7 minutes ago, Crossy said:

Can you post a photo of the adaptor please, particularly the mains connectors.

 

It is odd that a pukka Sony adaptor is giving tingles.

Here you go:

 

 

This is a Sony A7S camera (no cheapy).

[Crossy]

Thanks ^^^, and the plug at the adaptor end is also 2-pin?

 

It's possible that the adaptor has gone leaky internally for which the solution is a replacement ???? Can you beg or borrow another to try?

 

EDIT Is this occuring in the building in your other thread with the apparently excessive current in the N-E link? Is it the same elsewhere?

[CrunchWrapSupreme]

On 5/5/2022 at 4:34 PM, Jotnar said:

Most sockets, especially those cheap extension, fake surge protection cords will eventually lose their bite.  Trash them.

Yup. Especially here in the LOS, where part of their culture is constantly plugging and unplugging devices, wanting to save on the electric bill, and prevent fire hazards. Unfortunately this then creates loose connections that are then prone to sparking.

 

First thing I did after I met my wife and began visiting her folks, was replace all the 20 year old sockets in the house.

[SunshineHarvey7]

On 5/6/2022 at 5:35 PM, Crossy said:

Thanks ^^^, and the plug at the adaptor end is also 2-pin?

 

It's possible that the adaptor has gone leaky internally for which the solution is a replacement ???? Can you beg or borrow another to try?

 

EDIT Is this occuring in the building in your other thread with the apparently excessive current in the N-E link? Is it the same elsewhere?

Yes, the AC cord is 2-conductor at both ends.

 

We have three cameras of the same model, and all three behave the same way.

 

Yes, this issue is occurring in the same building with funny questions about 3-phase. However, I've measured leaking voltage on the camera chassis at two completely separate locations (one a house and one a church). Thus I'm less suspicious that the problem is caused by poor wiring at the studio.

[SunshineHarvey7]

On 5/6/2022 at 5:47 PM, CrunchWrapSupreme said:

First thing I did after I met my wife and began visiting her folks, was replace all the 20 year old sockets in the house.

Nice. I don't know about you, but in the last 10 years or so, it seems like the quality of outlets and light switches available at most hardware stores has gone DOWN. Kinda disappointing.

[bluejets]

It would be interesting to know just how you "tested" for leakage.

Some power supply units, usually cheaper smps are not built as isolation supplies and leakage there would be expected so most tend not to use them AND they are banned from import to many countries.

The supply you show seems on the larger physical side and perhaps suggest it might be of the older transformer design which would more than likely incorporate some form of primary filtering which can get leaky.

Possible it is double insulated which sort of rules the former out.

Many problems can occur and without actually being there to test or look for possibilities, it's an almost impossible query to answer with any certainty.

Usually the biggest issue are those who don't have a clue, jumping to inaccurate conclusions.

[Crossy]

In reality I think we are looking at a "design fact".

 

We have three units which behave in the same way - Unlikely to be a faulty unit.

 

They appear to do the same in a number of locations - Not likely to be a wiring issue.

 

The units are intended to be used 2-wire, so no missing ground.

 

The leakage is very, very small and likely only noticeable in bare feet on a conductive floor. I can just feel the "shock" from my neon screwdriver if I'm downstairs on our tiled concrete floor, it barely manages to light upstairs on the wooden floor or if I wear my ancient sandals.

 

As a "solution" it's the slippers or a less conductive floor covering I'm afraid.

 

[SunshineHarvey7]

44 minutes ago, Crossy said:

As a "solution" it's the slippers or a less conductive floor covering I'm afraid.

So far, that’s the best solution we have found.