Testosterone enanthate – in Pattaya or BKK

[Dart12]

On 6/1/2022 at 8:28 PM, WaveHunter said:

After over 6 years of doing the testing every quarter, I know which specific tests I need to do and I just go "a la carte"

 

Here is a list just to illustrate (you should have your doctor prepare the list for you, since everyone is different).  It includes the price I pay)

 

Critical Tests (every quarter):

1.   Testosterone  500 baht  

2.   Estradiol (E2)  400 baht

3.   CBC (includes hematocrit) 100 baht

4.   Blood sugar (FBS)  60 baht

 

I just want to stress that even though I've been doing this for over 6 years, I ALWAYS forward the results to my doctor for analysis.  Being your own doctor with TRT is a real dumb thing to do IMO ????

 

Secondary tests (not necessarily each quarter). Note: I am into extreme sports so if I am training hard I will do the extra tests, and if I am not, I just stick to the basics, and then if my Doctor thinks something is off in the basic tests or if I tell him I'm not feeling up to snuff, he may tell me to get additional tests. 

 

6.   CREATININE (kidney) 80 baht

7.    BUN (kidneys)  80 baht

8.    Lipid Profiles (Cholesterol, HDL, LDL Triglyceride) 360 baht

9.    Liver Function Test (LFT) 400 baht

10.  PSA (prostate screening)  500 baht (proscar can effect PSA)

12.  Cortisol 600

13.  AST 60 THB (normal range: Males: 10 to 40 units/L

TTL Cost for all basic and secondary tests: THB 2760 = $88.38

 

As you may know if you have had blood tests done in the States, 3000 THB is really cheap for all of these tests!  When I lived inthe States, my insurance paid but I saw the bill one time at the lab and it was over $1300 USD ????

 

OPTIMAL TEST VALUES:

In most cases, the lab's range of acceptable values is pretty right on the money, but I have my own list of what I think are "optimal" values FOR ME:

 

* VITAMIN D3:  50 - 70 ng/dL

* HDL CHOLESTEROL: above 55 mg/dL

* LDL CHOLESTEROL:  Under 100mg/dL

* TRIGLYCERIDES TARGET: Under 100mg/d

* GLUCOSE:  70-85 mg/dL (fasting)

* Insulin: 5mg/dl (fasting)

* Total Cholesterol: 180-200mg/dL

* Total Cholesterol / HDL  Optimum Ratio = 3.5

* Target Cholesterol Ratio = 3.26

* TRIGLYCERIDES/HDL:  Under 100 mg/dL

* DHEA-s:  350-490 μg/dL

* Estradiol:  26-30 pg/mL

* Total Testosterone:  900 ng/dL

* Free Testosterone:  20-25 pg/mL

* VITAMIN B12: TARGET:  above 600 ng/dL

* IGF: 350-400

* 2-Hour Insulin Glucose Challenge Test

    * Glucose:  80mg/dl (resting), not above 110-120mg/dl after 1, 2 hr checks

    * Insulin: less than 5mg/dl (fasting), not above 30mg/dl after 1,2 hr checks

 

Talk to your doctor to make sure you are getting all the panels you might need.  It is so cheap to get tested here in Thailand, you don't want to pass by any tests that might be important.????

 

Sent you PM with a question if you don't mind.

[WaveHunter]

On 6/4/2022 at 12:14 PM, Dart12 said:

Can go to pharmacy next to Tim's with no hassle and less cost I'm sure.

Tim's really is the go-to pharmacy for trustworthy pharma and good advice from pharmacists who know their stuff, and they carry a lot of things most pharmas don't carry.

[WaveHunter]

On 6/3/2022 at 12:28 AM, travelli said:

Hi guys!

Does anybody know this clinic? http://www.maximumclinic.com

They are in BKK and Pattaya. Would you recommend it?

I am asking this because I would like to get some Proviron with minimum hassle.

I keep telling you guys...STAY AWAY FROM THESE TYPE OF CLINICS!  IMO, they are dangerous and they are only out to rip you off despite all their BS about how they are the only clinics that really know how to treat your needs.  Most licensed GP MD's knows everything there is to know about TRT.  it is not rocket science.  You can go to any hospital and ask to consult with an MD well versed in TRT, and get the advice, evaluation, blood tests, and a treatment protocol at a reasonable price.

 

Believe it or not, most of these TRT clinics here in Thailand are run by NON-LICENSED DOCTORS.  They may have a licensed MD associated with their business, but you will be getting your advice and treatment from somebody with no credentials at all!  It's a "legal" scam, and a very costly one to you, and far from ideal for your optimum health.

 

If you are looking for Proviron, but asking about a clinic as a way to get your hands on some, it kind of sounds like you are trying to be you own TRT doctor.  BAD IDEA! 

 

TRT is a remarkably safe and effective treatment IF OVERSEEN BY A GOOD DOCTOR.  You really do not want to go messing around on your own based on information you pick up on YouTube, at the gym, or on muscle forums because sooner or later it's going to come back and bite you!  

 

Believe it or not, you can be self-administering and feel just fine...and then wind up in an emergency room one day with a heart attack!  Don't believe me?  Google "Polycythemia", just as an example.

 

I know a lot of people who relied on dumb advice they heard on some dopey YouTube guru's site and ended up regretting it.  Don't be one of them.

 

Many people overlook how amazing the resources are for TRT right at your local hospital here in Thailand.  Like I said, TRT is not rocket science.  Most MD's know how to run a protocol, and some of the younger doctors on staff at a hospital are ideal to put you on a good TRT protocol at a very reasonable cost.

[Hummin]

1 hour ago, WaveHunter said:

I keep telling you guys...STAY AWAY FROM THESE TYPE OF CLINICS!  IMO, they are dangerous and they are only out to rip you off despite all their BS about how they are the only clinics that really know how to treat your needs.  Most licensed GP MD's knows everything there is to know about TRT.  it is not rocket science.  You can go to any hospital and ask to consult with an MD well versed in TRT, and get the advice, evaluation, blood tests, and a treatment protocol at a reasonable price.

 

Believe it or not, most of these TRT clinics here in Thailand are run by NON-LICENSED DOCTORS.  They may have a licensed MD associated with their business, but you will be getting your advice and treatment from somebody with no credentials at all!  It's a "legal" scam, and a very costly one to you, and far from ideal for your optimum health.

 

If you are looking for Proviron, but asking about a clinic as a way to get your hands on some, it kind of sounds like you are trying to be you own TRT doctor.  BAD IDEA! 

 

TRT is a remarkably safe and effective treatment IF OVERSEEN BY A GOOD DOCTOR.  You really do not want to go messing around on your own based on information you pick up on YouTube, at the gym, or on muscle forums because sooner or later it's going to come back and bite you!  

 

Believe it or not, you can be self-administering and feel just fine...and then wind up in an emergency room one day with a heart attack!  Don't believe me?  Google "Polycythemia", just as an example.

 

I know a lot of people who relied on dumb advice they heard on some dopey YouTube guru's site and ended up regretting it.  Don't be one of them.

 

Many people overlook how amazing the resources are for TRT right at your local hospital here in Thailand.  Like I said, TRT is not rocket science.  Most MD's know how to run a protocol, and some of the younger doctors on staff at a hospital are ideal to put you on a good TRT protocol at a very reasonable cost.

Do you have any personal experience with Maximum clinics?

 

I have experience with Bangkok anti age and Maximum also for 6 years now. So wondering what your experience is with them. 

 

 

 

[WaveHunter]

3 hours ago, Hummin said:

Do you have any personal experience with Maximum clinics?

 

I have experience with Bangkok anti age and Maximum also for 6 years now. So wondering what your experience is with them. 

 

 

 

Thankfully no experience with any of them at all.  WHen I first started TRT I went to one of those clinics in the US, and it felt more like I was being grilled by a used car salesman or someone trying to sell me a lifetime contract at a health club.  The last thing I felt was that i was talking to a genuine physician.

 

Perhaps you found a clinic that doesn;t fit this mold but most of them in Thailand are just out to get as much money from clients as they can. 

 

One of them even had the nerve to pose as an expat on this forum trying to drum up business with ridiculous claims of how TRT changed his life in only a matter of weeks, and how "his doctor" was one of the top TRT doctors in the world and had special deals set up to get you Testosterone are dirt cheap prices.  I mean, what kind of reputable doctor works like this? LOL!

 

That kind of stuff just really burns me up,so maybe I've got a knee jerk reaction to these clinics, but the fact remains that TRT is not rocket science.  Why go to some overpriced and dubious clininc when you can go to practically any GP who is probably more knowledgeable and a better care giver and certainly far less expensive.

 

Just my 2 cents worth.  No offense intended  ????

[Hummin]

1 hour ago, WaveHunter said:

Thankfully no experience with any of them at all.  WHen I first started TRT I went to one of those clinics in the US, and it felt more like I was being grilled by a used car salesman or someone trying to sell me a lifetime contract at a health club.  The last thing I felt was that i was talking to a genuine physician.

 

Perhaps you found a clinic that doesn;t fit this mold but most of them in Thailand are just out to get as much money from clients as they can. 

 

One of them even had the nerve to pose as an expat on this forum trying to drum up business with ridiculous claims of how TRT changed his life in only a matter of weeks, and how "his doctor" was one of the top TRT doctors in the world and had special deals set up to get you Testosterone are dirt cheap prices.  I mean, what kind of reputable doctor works like this? LOL!

 

That kind of stuff just really burns me up,so maybe I've got a knee jerk reaction to these clinics, but the fact remains that TRT is not rocket science.  Why go to some overpriced and dubious clininc when you can go to practically any GP who is probably more knowledgeable and a better care giver and certainly far less expensive.

 

Just my 2 cents worth.  No offense intended  ????

I can assure you that Bangkok Hospital anti aging center and my experience with Maximum clinic have been positive, and if you manage your own TRT, the blood work and Dr is not that expensive and the expertise have been excellent.

 

I never attended any other Dr or clinics in Thailand, but I truly believe they have specialists who know what they are talking about. They have never recommend  any other medications to squise out of me some extra money. 

 

They helped me with an optimized dose of T, that have made my T and estradiol stable without excess T to produce extra estradiol.

 

I agree totally to be careful, and be sure your Dr know and have studied hormones and anti aging.

 

I'm not sure any Dr knows better than they do.

 

I know body builders use Maximum, but I'm sure they do not treat me as an bodybuilder. 

[Destiny1990]

Anyone here knows how to obtain Enclomiphene? pharmacies here don’t even know it. Could an anti aging clinic from the bkk pty hospital get it?

my T level is 390 and my lh is 2,0. I been told Enclomiphene tablets can boost both numbers with fewer side effects then ordinary Testosterone medicines.

[dj230]

bayer testosterone enanthate 250mg is 220 baht an amp/box at my pharmacy, I bet they'd drop it to 200baht a box if I bought 20

 

You're not saving too much to be honest, even if you saved 100 baht each amp that's only 100 baht of savings a week at most considering each amp usually has a bit extra in each, 275mg a week of test-e is already more than usually prescribed. I think bayer is more reputable, probably more important considering this medication is injected

 

51 minutes ago, Destiny1990 said:

Anyone here knows how to obtain Enclomiphene? pharmacies here don’t even know it. Could an anti aging clinic from the bkk pty hospital get it?

my T level is 390 and my lh is 2,0. I been told Enclomiphene tablets can boost both numbers with fewer side effects then ordinary Testosterone medicines.

You're probably looking for clomid or clomiphene citrate, it might work depending on the underlying reason for your low testosterone 

[dj230]

On 5/20/2022 at 3:16 AM, Hummin said:

I am using Subcutaneous injections when it suits my time schedule and not travelling, and in fact on my 3. Week now, and it is really a great method I'm very happy with. Better blood results and stable T and less E floating up and down. I inject 3ml every 5 - 6 day. 

 

There is some clinical reasearches in process and a few already posted.

 

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34698352/

3ml? Of 250mg/ml testosterone? 

Subcutaneous injections if you look at the studies show really bad results if you at the data, it's been spread by people mis-interpreting the data and thinking it actually gives more stable blood levels. If you look at the study they did with transgenders you'll see huge variances in testosterone levels from some having the testosterone barely even absorbed.

 

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2050116116300058

 

For example this study shows 200mg of test e administered intramuscularly resulted in higher testosterone levels and the same estrogen levels as 100mg of test e administered subcutaneously, probably because aromatase enzymes are actually found in the fat so you'd get more estrogen conversion injecting directly in the fat.

 

Just curious do you use the estrogen sensitive blood test? Lots of labs use the cheaper estrogen test which is meant for females and isn't very accurate for men's estrogen levels, as the high levels of estrogen in females don't require a precise measurement of estrogen.

 

[dj230]

On 5/30/2022 at 4:25 PM, WaveHunter said:

Wow so much misinformation and pseudo-scientific answer being tossed about on this thread LOL!  It sounds to me like some of you are getting your information from YouTube gurus instead of from legitimate sources like an experienced doctor or credible scientific sources.

 

If you go off of TRT for a period of time, it is not a crisis situation and you will notice very little change, physically or psychologically (except what you trick yourself into believing).  I have been on TRT for well over 7 years, and often go off of it for days, weeks, or even over a month a couple of times, and notice nothing negative at all. 

 

TRT DOES increase your estradiol levels but it is easily controlled after a few blood tests to determine if you need an aromatase inhibitor like Anastrozole, and if so how much.  Optimal levels of estradiol  in aging men are around 18-30 pg/mL, and that is pretty easy and inexpensive to maintain with something like Arimidex.

 

Hair loss associated with TRT is NOT a myth!  If your 5α-reductase levels are high, or the enzyme is particularly prolific, TRT may in fact lead to higher DHT levels, which could indeed cause increased hair loss symptoms.  However, the effects are easily controlled is to minimize Test from being converted to DHT by using a drug like Proviron.

 

Don't take my word for any of this.  I am only posting this because SO MUCH misinformation gets thrown around in forums and on YouTube that you should not believe any of it.  If you want REAL answers talk to a qualified MD, or start reading from recognized sources like medical journals...not YouTube or idle chit-chat of lay people on forums like this.

 

TRT can and does improve the quality of life for many men, but the effects are incredibly subtle and take months to recognize.  The same is true in discontinuing usage.  Many who go off TRT get crazy thinking they must do Post Cycle Therapy (PCT) which for most men is just plain crazy!  The human body is far more resilient than most recognize.

 

FAR MORE IMPORTANT, if you are on TRT is to not think of it as a "magic bullet".  It's ore important for your overall health and well-being (and yes, even your natural Test levels) to take nutrition more seriously, and to exercise regularly and a but on the intensive side (in other words, not walking on a treadmill while reading a magazine or watching TV!).  Those two things will do quite a bit to restore your Test levels and a lot of other metabolic markers as well.

 

Finding a MD with a well rounded and science-based understanding of metabolic health to advise you is your very best bet ????

 

Why would Proviron stop hair loss when it's a DHT-derived steroid? Proviron would accelerate hair loss if you were genetically prone to mall pattern baldness. Did you mistaken it for finasteride / propecia? 

 

[dj230]

On 6/1/2022 at 7:33 PM, Nickelbeer said:

When I came to Thailand, six years ago, I was taking a Testoviron injection every three weeks. When I came here, I consulted a swiss doctor who told me my levels were a bit too high and said it has the opposite effect to that desired. He cut me back to one injection per month. I have not had any "crashes" which is what my doctor in Alabama warned about. No hair loss, but my T levels have been low ever since I had radiation treatment for prostate cancer. I was completely non-functional in that arena until I saw a doctor who put me on a Testosterone gel. within a month of using the gel every day, I started to get my function back and also decided that I would rather take injections. The gels are not available here in Thailand, but I get Testosterone Enanthate from Ocean Pharmacy and take the 250 mg vials down to a nearby clinic and get an injection for 100 baht. The price on the vials has gone up recently to 250 baht per vial. The pharmacy will sell them in small quantities. I usually get about five vials at a time. The latest batch of five cost me 1250 baht. In America, there are still many doctors who believe that testosterone causes Prostate Cancer. This thinking is based on a study in the late fifties which has since been debunked.

The gels are available here in thailand, Androgel from Bensins Healthcare

[WaveHunter]

On 6/13/2022 at 2:06 AM, dj230 said:

Why would Proviron stop hair loss when it's a DHT-derived steroid? Proviron would accelerate hair loss if you were genetically prone to mall pattern baldness. Did you mistaken it for finasteride / propecia? 

 

You're right!  I was thinking of another poster looking for Proviron when I wrote that.   I did, in fact mean finasteride / dutasteride.  Sorry about that and thanks for making the correction????

[Hummin]

On 6/12/2022 at 9:05 PM, dj230 said:

3ml? Of 250mg/ml testosterone? 

Subcutaneous injections if you look at the studies show really bad results if you at the data, it's been spread by people mis-interpreting the data and thinking it actually gives more stable blood levels. If you look at the study they did with transgenders you'll see huge variances in testosterone levels from some having the testosterone barely even absorbed.

 

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2050116116300058

 

For example this study shows 200mg of test e administered intramuscularly resulted in higher testosterone levels and the same estrogen levels as 100mg of test e administered subcutaneously, probably because aromatase enzymes are actually found in the fat so you'd get more estrogen conversion injecting directly in the fat.

 

Just curious do you use the estrogen sensitive blood test? Lots of labs use the cheaper estrogen test which is meant for females and isn't very accurate for men's estrogen levels, as the high levels of estrogen in females don't require a precise measurement of estrogen.

 

So far using subq injections have given me better bloodwork both from private labs and hospital labs. To be true Those private labs, I have no idea if they use estrogen sensitive tests or not, and not even sure BKK Hospital do them either or any lab in Thailand. 
 

Im really not that worried about e since my test when doing low dosing have been quite good compare to when doing nebido which I sky rocketing and also 250mg every 17 days. I would do test prior to new injection, and also after half time before new injection during my trials. Took me some time and some bloodwork to optimize my doses. 
 

My mood have improved and have to remember I have been long time user now for 6 years, and do not feel any elevated anymore by testosterone like you do your first year or two, and no more sensitive nipples either, and I believe or feel my balls have improved a bit. My balls shrinked when using nebido, and have not really  recovered yet, but that is a side effect that I do not worry to much about, as long I function well. 
 

From what I can see from the clinical and reviews of clinical trials, subq is a good alternative to IM. 
 

We will see in future how it turns out, so far I feel it works for me very well, and my dr also recommend me to continue. 

[Levin Hong]

Does anyone knows which online pharmacy in Thailand ships to Singapore ? 
I was quoted 300 baht by another pharmacy. It’s so expensive.

[dj230]

4 hours ago, Hummin said:

So far using subq injections have given me better bloodwork both from private labs and hospital labs. To be true Those private labs, I have no idea if they use estrogen sensitive tests or not, and not even sure BKK Hospital do them either or any lab in Thailand. 
 

Im really not that worried about e since my test when doing low dosing have been quite good compare to when doing nebido which I sky rocketing and also 250mg every 17 days. I would do test prior to new injection, and also after half time before new injection during my trials. Took me some time and some bloodwork to optimize my doses. 
 

My mood have improved and have to remember I have been long time user now for 6 years, and do not feel any elevated anymore by testosterone like you do your first year or two, and no more sensitive nipples either, and I believe or feel my balls have improved a bit. My balls shrinked when using nebido, and have not really  recovered yet, but that is a side effect that I do not worry to much about, as long I function well. 
 

From what I can see from the clinical and reviews of clinical trials, subq is a good alternative to IM. 
 

We will see in future how it turns out, so far I feel it works for me very well, and my dr also recommend me to continue. 

Any lab should be able to do it, it's called estrogen sensitive test, the only reason I mention it, is if you're monitoring your estrogen levels they can fluctuate quite a bit with the regular estrogen test so it's not a very accurate reading. Some doctors reporting when they had a test done with both the regular estrogen test + estrogen sensitive on the same day/blood draw, they had drastically different readings.

 

I know there was a famous TRT doctors recommending subcutaneous injections Dr John Crisler, I am sure they work but I am not sure how superior they are compared to regular intramuscular injection. I personally don't even think TRT administered with injections is the way to go, the human body naturally produces testosterone in daily cycles, so I think the gel is a more accurate replication of natural testosterone production. I've noticed having peaks and troughs during the day affect a few things, mainly noticing sleep and digestion patterns to be more normal, I would assume it also helps regulate androgen receptor sensitivity. The only issue is the possible transfer of medication due to it being applied on the skin. 

 

Just curious when you say you do not feel elevated anymore by testosterone like the first year or two, were you also using subcutaneous injections during that time? and also have you noticed any increase in your Hemoglobin A1C levels or fasting blood sugars?

[Hummin]

6 minutes ago, dj230 said:

Any lab should be able to do it, it's called estrogen sensitive test, the only reason I mention it, is if you're monitoring your estrogen levels they can fluctuate quite a bit with the regular estrogen test so it's not a very accurate reading. Some doctors reporting when they had a test done with both the regular estrogen test + estrogen sensitive on the same day/blood draw, they had drastically different readings.

 

I know there was a famous TRT doctors recommending subcutaneous injections Dr John Crisler, I am sure they work but I am not sure how superior they are compared to regular intramuscular injection. I personally don't even think TRT administered with injections is the way to go, the human body naturally produces testosterone in daily cycles, so I think the gel is a more accurate replication of natural testosterone production. I've noticed having peaks and troughs during the day affect a few things, mainly noticing sleep and digestion patterns to be more normal, I would assume it also helps regulate androgen receptor sensitivity. The only issue is the possible transfer of medication due to it being applied on the skin. 

 

Just curious when you say you do not feel elevated anymore by testosterone like the first year or two, were you also using subcutaneous injections during that time? and also have you noticed any increase in your Hemoglobin A1C levels or fasting blood sugars?

Subq have been proven to be as good as IM, but not better when it comes to T levels. Estradiol is very individual, but also shows a positive trend for most a I can read and understand. When it comes to walk in labs in Thailand, I really do not know, and as we know estradiol fluctate during the day as normal t also does for people who do not use trt. 
 

Gel I choose not to use because of climate, and Im quite active, shower three times a day, and also do not want to transfer Test gel to my gf. I like gel when Im back in Europe when alone, and find it quite good. However My own production was quite shut down after using nebido, now it have improved a bit, but not much. 
 

my bloodwork show no increase in hemoglobin and fasting sugar dependes on your diet no matter 8 or 12 hour fasting, so that fluctates in norm. Often when visiting Bangkok no matter bloodwork or not, we eat and drink good, and try to give at least 8 hour fasting and sometimes 12 hours. 
 

With subq “micro doses” I have no more sensitive niples, that could or more likely indicate elevated estradiol. I know some claim sensitive nipples have nothing to do with high E, but to and my bloodwork I can believe there is a connection. But again, estradiol is hard to know the quality of the lab doing estradiol measuring correct. 

[Dart12]

On 6/11/2022 at 11:15 AM, WaveHunter said:

Tim's really is the go-to pharmacy for trustworthy pharma and good advice from pharmacists who know their stuff, and they carry a lot of things most pharmas don't carry.

Talk to the oldest brother though.  The sis doesn't know any thing even their own stock typically (at least about the topic in here)

[Hummin]

6 minutes ago, Dart12 said:

Talk to the oldest brother though.  The sis doesn't know any thing even their own stock typically (at least about the topic in here)

Try Fascino North Pattaya, seems to be reliably  and have not seen any underground lab products there either, which is typical for a pharmacy selling steroids in Pattaya or tourist places. 
 

Clomid is a typical faked product in Thailand, and just be careful using medicine that normally is prescribed medicine. Anastrozole/arimedex Is another product that is dangerous if used wrong, and it is most likely when buying in Thailand from a underground lab. 

[JensenZ]

On 6/11/2022 at 4:04 PM, WaveHunter said:

One of them even had the nerve to pose as an expat on this forum trying to drum up business with ridiculous claims of how TRT changed his life in only a matter of weeks, and how "his doctor" was one of the top TRT doctors in the world and had special deals set up to get you Testosterone are dirt cheap prices.  I mean, what kind of reputable doctor works like this? LOL!

Actually that statement is absolutely 100% true. One shot can change your life in a matter of days if you have very low natural levels. Testosterone is so important for men that if levels get too low you will feel (and look) like cr*p.  

 

[WaveHunter]

On 6/18/2022 at 5:21 AM, JensenZ said:

Actually that statement is absolutely 100% true. One shot can change your life in a matter of days if you have very low natural levels. Testosterone is so important for men that if levels get too low you will feel (and look) like cr*p.  

 

Not true at all.  TRT is not like an on/off switch.  My serum levels were incredibly low when my doctor suggested TRT therapy.  They were below 300 ng/dL (TT).  It took over three months of injections before I noticed any discernible difference at all, and even then they were very subtle.

 

My doctor was smart enough to tell me at the outset, that far more important to resolving my issues was to improve my lifestyle in terms of nutrition and exercise, and I followed that advice in a big way.

 

Sorry but there is just too much hyped up misinformation about TRT out there right now.  It's put out there by self-serving doctors looking to profit from it, and from new TRT patients with such unrealistic expectations that they delude themselves into believing that TRT is magically transforming them, when in fact, it is not.

 

TRT is not going to make you Superman overnight, and what I have found after being on TRT for over 6 years now is that it's a good thing to keep your serum levels on the high end of normal, but there are a lot of other things you should be doing to improve your lifestyle, like nutrition and proper exercise that will benefit you to a greater extent than just relying on drugs.

[WaveHunter]

On 6/17/2022 at 2:45 PM, Dart12 said:

Talk to the oldest brother though.  The sis doesn't know any thing even their own stock typically (at least about the topic in here)

I'm afraid you are correct.  I used to only deal with the "parents" and they were so knowledgeable I felt like I was talking to a doctor! 

 

One of the younger ones was always pretty good too, but on my last visit, one of the others sounded like he didn;t know what he was talking about at all.  His advice made me so uncomfortable, I decided not to buy from them that day.

 

FYI, I ended up buying from another pharmacy right around the corner from where I live in Jomtien called Ocean Pharmacy.  Not nearly as much stock as Tim's but I was only looking to purchase Testosterone, and they carried Bayer.

 

I like Tim's and will try again...hoping they get their act together!

[WaveHunter]

On 5/7/2022 at 1:43 PM, FriendlyFarang said:

I just called them. Yes, currently out of stock, they expect the new delivery within the next month.

So it's not off the market, just out of stock.

Still hoping to find Rotex Medica 20-amp boxes.  It is now "next month" (june).  I asked my pharmacist and she says she hasn't heard anything yet.  How about you...any updates? 

 

The price for Bayer right now is 250 THB per vial (only available as 1-vial packs) which seems VERY expensive compared to the 20 vial packs from Rotex Medica that cost only 165 THB per vial (3,300 THB for the 20-pack)

[Hummin]

29 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

Not true at all.  TRT is not like an on/off switch.  My serum levels were incredibly low when my doctor suggested TRT therapy.  They were below 300 ng/dL (TT).  It took over three months of injections before I noticed any discernible difference at all, and even then they were very subtle.

 

In the beginning it was an felt elvated state for me, and that could be result of many things, so I believe it is very individual feeling. Never underestimate placebo effect either when it comes to make changes in life just by doing something, and start something new. 
 

As you say, activity it self stimulate hormones to work better as well diet.

[Hummin]

8 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

Still hoping to find Rotex Medica 20-amp boxes.  It is now "next month" (june).  I asked my pharmacist and she says she hasn't heard anything yet.  How about you...any updates? 

 

The price for Bayer right now is 250 THB per vial (only available as 1-vial packs) which seems VERY expensive compared to the 20 vial packs from Rotex Medica that cost only 165 THB per vial (3,300 THB for the 20-pack)

Rotex Medica they had in stock last time at Fascino North Pattaya.

[JensenZ]

5 hours ago, WaveHunter said:

Not true at all.  TRT is not like an on/off switch.  My serum levels were incredibly low when my doctor suggested TRT therapy.  They were below 300 ng/dL (TT).  It took over three months of injections before I noticed any discernible difference at all, and even then they were very subtle.

 

My doctor was smart enough to tell me at the outset, that far more important to resolving my issues was to improve my lifestyle in terms of nutrition and exercise, and I followed that advice in a big way.

 

Sorry but there is just too much hyped up misinformation about TRT out there right now.  It's put out there by self-serving doctors looking to profit from it, and from new TRT patients with such unrealistic expectations that they delude themselves into believing that TRT is magically transforming them, when in fact, it is not.

 

TRT is not going to make you Superman overnight, and what I have found after being on TRT for over 6 years now is that it's a good thing to keep your serum levels on the high end of normal, but there are a lot of other things you should be doing to improve your lifestyle, like nutrition and proper exercise that will benefit you to a greater extent than just relying on drugs.

My comment was not intended to suggest you'd become a Superman overnight. This is the notion that makes the subject taboo for many people - the use of testosterone as a PED (Performance Enhancing Drug) and not for replacement therapy. I was referring to just feeling better with more energy and hopefully an increased libido. You can take as much as you like, but without intensive sports training, you won't gain much muscle if any, so I would like to put that notion to bed.

 

I don't know what your doctor was using to increase your serum testosterone levels, and they were probabaly very conservative, only raising your serum testosterone very slowly - so it took 3 months. I'm sorry to hear that your journey was so slow.

 

I still stand by my statement, and I will qualify it. If you take a 250mg jab in your a** (1 ampule), you will very likely feel different and better the same day, but certainly by the next morning if you have below normal natural testosterone levels.

 

How much you supplement will depend on your blood panel. If the level gets too high, so will your estradiol, which is not a good thing. It also increases your DHT levels, which will speed up hair loss. As you say, high end of normal is good place to be, but not over.

 

I'm not suggesting you should undertake TRT without the supervision of a doctor, but many doctors can be the problem, not the solution, and they can charge through the roof.

 

A lot of people are trying to avoid the needle, but it's still the most effective and cheapest way. 

[JensenZ]

On 6/17/2022 at 2:59 PM, Hummin said:

Try Fascino North Pattaya, seems to be reliably  and have not seen any underground lab products there either, which is typical for a pharmacy selling steroids in Pattaya or tourist places. 
 

Clomid is a typical faked product in Thailand, and just be careful using medicine that normally is prescribed medicine. Anastrozole/arimedex Is another product that is dangerous if used wrong, and it is most likely when buying in Thailand from a underground lab. 

Anastrozole/arimedex is very expensive in Thailand if you can find it, but the only "danger" is that it is extremely effective in lowering estradiol and in the regular 1mg capsule dose, it is way too powerful to be used with regular TRT testosterone doses and it could lower your estradiol to zero. It is best to find it in hard tablet form, and use a tablet cutter to divide one tablet in 4. I used to use 1/4 tablet every other day to keep my estradiol in the normal range. For most people on very conservative TRT, even that is too much.

 

We're not living in the dark ages anymore, where doctors are the only purveyors of knowledge. You can learn everything you need to know online... which is exactly what people are doing in this thread.

[Hummin]

7 minutes ago, JensenZ said:

Anastrozole/arimedex is very expensive in Thailand if you can find it, but the only "danger" is that it is extremely effective in lowering estradiol and in the regular 1mg capsule dose, it is way too powerful to be used with regular TRT testosterone doses and it could lower your estradiol to zero. It is best to find it in hard tablet form, and use a tablet cutter to divide one tablet in 4. I used to use 1/4 tablet every other day to keep my estradiol in the normal range. For most people on very conservative TRT, even that is too much.

 

We're not living in the dark ages anymore, where doctors are the only purveyors of knowledge. You can learn everything you need to know online... which is exactly what people are doing in this thread.

I learned that Estradiol can be controlled by micro dosing the T, make my T and E stable as my mood. No extra medication needed. 
 

Correct as you say, even splitting 1mg anastrozole in 4 and use 1/4 every 3. day was to strong on 250mg every 17. day. I had estradiol peaks up to 130pg/ml on that scheme, and soon found my estradiol on 10pg/ml using anastrozole. Optimal is 30pg/ml - 40pg/ml depending on your T levels.

 

But again, I do not trust Thai labs to always manage to measure correct E, and also E as said many times fluctates during the day as well.. 

[JensenZ]

6 minutes ago, Hummin said:

I learned that Estradiol can be controlled by micro dosing the T, make my T and E stable as my mood. No extra medication needed. 
 

Correct as you say, even splitting 1mg anastrozole in 4 and use 1/4 every 3. day was to strong on 250mg every 17. day. I had estradiol peaks up to 130pg/ml on that scheme, and soon found my estradiol on 10pg/ml using anastrozole. Optimal is 30pg/ml - 40pg/ml depending on your T levels.

 

But again, I do not trust Thai labs to always manage to measure correct E, and also E as said many times fluctates during the day as well.. 

I've gone the same way. I micro dose the T and don't use any estrogen blockers/reducers. Unfortunately micro dosing is very difficult with 1 ml (250mg/ml) amupules, which most people are discussing here. My idea of micro dosing is a jab every 7 - 10 days, but only 0.5 ml (125mg). A 1 ml jab every 3 weeks or so is not going to give very stable levels. Even my dosage scheme doesn't. You need the multi-use 10ml vials or empty 1 ml ampules into sterile vials.

[Hummin]

6 minutes ago, JensenZ said:

I've gone the same way. I micro dose the T and don't use any estrogen blockers/reducers. Unfortunately micro dosing is very difficult with 1 ml (250mg/ml) amupules, which most people are discussing here. My idea of micro dosing is a jab every 7 - 10 days, but only 0.5 ml (125mg). A 1 ml jab every 3 weeks or so is not going to give very stable levels. Even my dosage scheme doesn't. You need the multi-use 10ml vials or empty 1 ml ampules into sterile vials.

I pull up 3 syringe, and put two of them in the fridge. It was an earlier member here who told us his Dr recommended and teached him, and I asked my Dr if there could be any problems if I did the same, and as long I kept it sterile, and minimized the aircontact outside freedge, he saw no problems with it. 

 

The only risk is to inject to quick and get this fat lumbs. The same can happen with fake T with not medical proved oil. 

[JensenZ]

1 hour ago, Hummin said:

I pull up 3 syringe, and put two of them in the fridge. It was an earlier member here who told us his Dr recommended and teached him, and I asked my Dr if there could be any problems if I did the same, and as long I kept it sterile, and minimized the aircontact outside freedge, he saw no problems with it. 

 

The only risk is to inject to quick and get this fat lumbs. The same can happen with fake T with not medical proved oil. 

That will only happen if you don't reach the muscle and end up injecting into fat. You might need a longer needle LOL.