Cultural Misunderstanding or Cultural Incompatibilty?

[sqwakvfr]

I have lived in CNX for 6 years and was a frequent visitor to LOS for 20 years.  I still don't understand Thai people. I always try to be generous in terms of tipping and I even give money to homeless people on the streets.  

 

In Chiang Mai there is woman and a toddler who are homeless.  They usually roam Huay Kaew Road from Nimman down to Somphet.  A few months ago it was raining and she was trying to stay dry with cardboard boxes.  I felt bad for her and gave her some money.  She took the money and walked away.  From time to time I see her on the streets and usually I give her 20 or 40 baht.  Each time she just takes the money and keeps walking.  Last week she came up to me while I was waiting for a Songtao and put her hand out.  I gave her a 10 baht coin(All I  had was a 1000 Baht note). . She was not happy and demanded more money.  I declined and she walked away.  This is the first  time  where a homeless person was upset because I did not give her enough money.  For comparison while I was in Seoul, S. Korea I gave the equivalent of $1 dollar to a homeless guy and he got on his knees and thanked me.  I seemed to recall most Koreans showed appreciation when I tipped at restaurants and even at the hotels I stayed.  I can't recall the last time I was show any appreciation for leaving a generous tip at any business in Thailand.  

 

I have been told tipping is not common in Thai culture but is not showing appreciation or even gratitude not part of Thai Culture as well?  Or does  it just apply to foreigners?  I still intend  on tipping and in some cases give money to homeless.  

 

Often I feel like I am at a different wavelength with most Thai people.  Even if I was fluent in the Thai language I doubt I could truly be compatible with most.  A few years ago I met a Thai woman who lived in San Francisco for a few years we got along mostly well.  She was the only Thai woman that I have met in LOS that I saw any potential for a possible relationship.  There was little to no hope with the other Thai woman I have met  Living in LOS has been fine as long as I have limited contact with most Thai people.  I am courteous to them and in turn most have been courteous to me.  So I do not have any major complaints but I just don't understand the people of LOS.  My guess is I never will.  

 

[CharlieH]

Looking to play chess in a land of checkers.

 

The game is impossible to play, don't apply your rules and standards and you won't be disappointed.You first must learn again.

[marin]

Do you feel better after your rant. You seem to have covered all your thoughts. She is most likely mentally ill. How do you feel about the mentally ill?

[Lacessit]

While I applaud the generosity of the OP, IMO it is unrealistic to raise expectations, and then dash them. The woman was conditioned to seeing 20 or 40 baht, 10 baht was a disappointment. IMO that would apply anywhere in the world.

[StayinThailand2much]

Are you sure the homeless people you're giving money to are Thai, or, perhaps, are they Cambodian, brought there by Thai gangs as a beggar scam?

[CharlieH]

Just now, StayinThailand2much said:

Are you sure the homeless people you're giving money to are Thai, or, perhaps, are they Cambodian, brought there by Thai gangs as a beggar scam?

Well known fact that the "flower girls" (as an example) in Bangkok and other places are manipulated and organised by crime gangs.

[OneMoreFarang]

a) Maybe you are just a faceless farang to her. You know, they look all the same like for us some Thais look all the same.

 

b) Don't expect too much thinking from a homeless person. If her brain would work well then probably she would do something different.

 

c) It was explained to me by Thais that the Thai "thinking" works similar to this: The poor people and beggars give us the opportunity to do something good. We give them money and because we give them money we feel good because we did something good. So basically beggars do us a favor for giving us the opportunity to feel good.

I don't know how true this is but it sounds reasonable (for Thai thinking) to me.

[FriendlyFarang]

Many homeless people have mental problems, so their behavior might not be rational to us, not limited to Thailand.

Thais usually don't tip, so when you tip it might take them by surprise and they don't know how to react.

To show appreciation Thais give fruit or these gift baskets with "chicken essence" etc.

[StayinThailand2much]

29 minutes ago, sqwakvfr said:

I have been told tipping is not common in Thai culture but is not showing appreciation or even gratitude not part of Thai Culture as well?

Thais don't usually tip, esp. in restaurants.

 

As a foreigner in Thailand, my tipping has changed over the years. While I usually tipped a lot at the beginning, I now, mostly, just tip taxi drivers and my barber. I also tip lower sums. The main reason is that, nowadays, I often hear people, who don't know me, calling me 'kee-niaow' and 'kee-nok', just to taunt me, so I adjusted my tipping to their low expectations. 

 

As for beggars, at least in Bangkok, most seem to be 'a fraud', either brought-in Cambodians, or scammers, while the 'real' homeless are rarely seen begging. (They just put up their plastic cup, as opposed to the aggressive Cambodian beggars, who are placed at strategic points by Thai gangs.)

Edited May 28, 2022 by StayinThailand2much

[4MyEgo]

22 minutes ago, sqwakvfr said:

I felt bad for her and gave her some money. 

Give because you want to, not because you want to be thanked, it's simple and a humane thing to do.

 

I give, I don't not expect a thank you, I just hope that what I give, fills that persons stomach for another day.

 

Have people thanked me with a wai, sure, have people walked away without thanking me, sure, did I give a rats a$$, no, why, because I gave as it made me feel good, I never expect a thank you, suffice to say, you are not in that persons situation, they might feel guilt, shame or are so far down just want to keep moving and the last thing on their mind during their despair is to wai you, or thank you, just keep giving with a smile and expect nothing in return if it makes you feel good.

 

[CharlieH]

Whilst I am  sure there are many genuine cases , I personally NEVER give cash. Buy them some food, absolutely, give them a bottle of water etc. NOT CASH.

It always reminds me of the true story of a "homeless" person begging each day outside a London tube station.

The truth was he made so much money from it each day, he had his Mercedes parked in the area and drove home to his million £ home each night !

 

So no, no cash from me, if things really are as they seem, the food or water will be welcome.

 

 

[StayinThailand2much]

8 minutes ago, CharlieH said:

So no, no cash from me, if things really are as they seem, the food or water will be welcome.

Seconded. That's what I do, too.

[Ohyesuare]

I always tip generously to the Grab Food drivers because the restaurants make them wait forever sometimes and they get like 30 baht for the whole delivery and also with gas prices going up etc.. Majority of the time, they seem grateful and give me a wai and polite thank you. I think most people don't tip them or give much if they do. At restaurants, it's hit or miss if they seem appreciative even of a generous tip. I don't give for thanks or to be appreciated, just what I feel is fair for the service provided.

[ezzra]

There's a tendency for people who give to also ask and find out what happens to their benevolent act, i use to be like that too until i said to my self: either give and don't ask questions or don't ask at all...

[sanuk711]

[Kwasaki]

1 hour ago, sqwakvfr said:

So I do not have any major complaints but I just don't understand the people of LOS.  My guess is I never will.  

No you won't until you've commit to a relationship with a Thai lady and her family.

I understand perfectly well, get it wrong sometimes but that's down to me. 

[fittobethaied]

3 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

a) Maybe you are just a faceless farang to her. You know, they look all the same like for us some Thais look all the same.

 

b) Don't expect too much thinking from a homeless person. If her brain would work well then probably she would do something different.

 

c) It was explained to me by Thais that the Thai "thinking" works similar to this: The poor people and beggars give us the opportunity to do something good. We give them money and because we give them money we feel good because we did something good. So basically beggars do us a favor for giving us the opportunity to feel good.

I don't know how true this is but it sounds reasonable (for Thai thinking) to me.

I've been told the same thing when the I go to dinner with the entire Thai family and they pass me the check to pay. Sounds like pretty convenient and well orchestrated Thai thinking if you ask me!

[Hummin]

22 minutes ago, fittobethaied said:

I've been told the same thing when the I go to dinner with the entire Thai family and they pass me the check to pay. Sounds like pretty convenient and well orchestrated Thai thinking if you ask me!

When that happens early in a relationship, you know how the future will be. 
 

I have experienced I was expected to pay, I offered me to pay, we shared the bill, and they payed when I was invited. Edit not on different occasions with different families. 
 

You know when you are on the way being taken for a rollercoaster.

 

However if she is together with you and she invite the family for a dinner, then its her meaning you who are supposed to pay. Listen and learn and understand the differences. 

Edited May 28, 2022 by Hummin

[The Hammer2021]

4 hours ago, marin said:

Do you feel better after your rant. You seem to have covered all your thoughts. She is most likely mentally ill. How do you feel about the mentally ill?

Yes. That occurred  to me.

[Gillyflower]

4 hours ago, CharlieH said:

Whilst I am  sure there are many genuine cases , I personally NEVER give cash. Buy them some food, absolutely, give them a bottle of water etc. NOT CASH.

It always reminds me of the true story of a "homeless" person begging each day outside a London tube station.

The truth was he made so much money from it each day, he had his Mercedes parked in the area and drove home to his million £ home each night !

 

So no, no cash from me, if things really are as they seem, the food or water will be welcome.

 

 

Reminds me of something I saw recently.  A man was standing on a bridge and of course begging.  There was a baker's shop nearby and a lady bought him a baguette.  As soon as she was out of sight, he threw it into the river.  He wanted MONEY for his beer. 

[Aussieroaming]

I like giving money to poor or homeless as well but I generally try not to make any 'regular patrons' anymore because I don't want them expecting it everytime I pass them. Lesson learnt below.

 

I used to give an old lady 50b on most days because I used to walk to the park each day and if I didn't have any money on a particular day she would chase me and yap away at me to show she was miffed. She was definitely a little nutty but she recognised me. Anyway one day I walked passed her and didn't have any cash and put my hands up to show her that they were empty and she followed me and rammed the sharp end of her umbrella into my back about 4 times just to show me that she was really annoyed. That was the last day she got anything and since then I have made sure to spread any donations around rather than giving one person unfair monetary expectations.

[swm59nj]

In general manners and courtesy does not seem to be a virtue in this Land of Smiles. 
 

[rwill]

I give a fair amount of money away.  But I don't usually give to those asking for it.  But like when I see an elderly person pusing a big cart down the road looking for bottles and such I will stop and give them some money.  Most of them thank me.  I have had a couple of people that didn't want to take my money.  Lots of them will give you a blessing after you give them money.  But as mentioned earlier some of the mentally unstable ones are less likely too.  But I don't look for any thanks or recognition when I give money away.

[Tony125]

4 hours ago, fittobethaied said:

I've been told the same thing when the I go to dinner with the entire Thai family and they pass me the check to pay. Sounds like pretty convenient and well orchestrated Thai thinking if you ask me!

Never happened when I have been out with my Thai family = wife, her dad, sister/brothers, aunts/uncles ,cousins. Usually  Thai families let the richest  pay but  even before I retired and was working they never let me pay the entire bill, just let me chip in. I have heard they may have you pay Sin  Sod when marry but if they ever ask for money after that they don't consider you family.  Her sister owns a company and she will sometimes take out everyone and pick up the check. If it's really expensive place she may alow me and some of her uncles to chip in.  She took her daughter , my wife , and company employess to Japan a few years ago.

[2009]

8 hours ago, StayinThailand2much said:

Thais don't usually tip, esp. in restaurants.

 

As a foreigner in Thailand, my tipping has changed over the years. While I usually tipped a lot at the beginning, I now, mostly, just tip taxi drivers and my barber. I also tip lower sums. The main reason is that, nowadays, I often hear people, who don't know me, calling me 'kee-niaow' and 'kee-nok', just to taunt me, so I adjusted my tipping to their low expectations. 

 

As for beggars, at least in Bangkok, most seem to be 'a fraud', either brought-in Cambodians, or scammers, while the 'real' homeless are rarely seen begging. (They just put up their plastic cup, as opposed to the aggressive Cambodian beggars, who are placed at strategic points by Thai gangs.)

Yeah, I'm the same: I don't tip much any more.

 

Mostly, because Thais don't tip. If my daughter was a waitress in a Thai restaurant/bar, for example, she'd get nothing -- so why should I tip people who don't tip others?

 

Also, service here is usually <deleted>, particularly where I hang out (farang spots). The tourist industry here is where you'll find so much scum, and it reflects in their service. Also, things are generally way overpriced in farang places, so the owner should be able to pay his staff well. Anyway, up to them.

 

I only really tip my barber and my kid's tutor. We'll I'd call that an end-of-year bonus/holiday pay, rather than a tip, but still.

 

It is rare to find service that compels me to want to tip here.

[2009]

You gotta love the Indians.....they walk into a massage parlor and try to negotiate a foot massage for 100 baht each, cos there is half a dozen of them. Lol 

 

Then, while getting their massage, they are directing the masseuse on exactly how to do it, and being a general nuisance.

 

Then, they leave without leaving a tip, maybe 20 baht for all of them.

 

My EX does massage and the stories she tells me about the Indians really crack me up.

 

I just think, som nam na. Nothing wrong with a taste of your own medicine once in a while.

[2009]

Honestly, the service staff here are so entitled, compared with where I come from (where people actually appreciate little things).

 

Here, if you give something, it's often considered stingy or not enough.

[billd766]

I live in rural Kamphaeng Phet and we rarely go out to eat. My wife is a great cook anyway.

 

Many tears ago when I was working and living in BKK I used to give a tip if I was eating out and I also gave to only 2 beggars by the BTS stations.

 

Now I tip my barber in the big village 4 times a year and give him 2 x 10 baht coins, one for each of his kids.

[Mark Nothing]

Foreigners do not have a place in societal hierarchy so ignore them as if they don't exist.  Disregard these beggars and concentrate on your own needs.  

 

If you give your left arm they will demand your right.

[1FinickyOne]

You want sanity from a likely mentally ill person? 

 

I am a good tipper and friendly and I can easily see the appreciation... though I do speak Thai and am not a pain in the butt to waitresses, though surely you are also not, but I see the appreciation all the time, plenty of genuine smiles and good service and sometimes larger portions.. 

 

And I don't find Thai people that difficult to understand - maybe more direct and simple in many ways...

 

Tevya: Here is 10 shekels.

Beggar: But last week you gave me 20 shekels

Tevya: I had a bad week.

Beggar: Because you had a bad week I have to suffer?