Dual Pricing Reconfirmed In Thailand National Parks

[Neeranam]

2 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

But, my Wife and many of my friends are Thai, they also voice their opinion that the believe dual pricing is wrong

Would they prefer that they pay more so that the parks can lower the cost for foreigner tourists or expats that don't want to go through the residency process? 

I certainly wouldn't want to pay the same as those foreign tourists. I would agree to those expats who work here to get the local discount too. Foreign pensioners should pay the normal price, as they are not paying tax and they are getting so many other benefits, including the easier than normal immigration process, reduced travel costs, etc.

Those foreigners who illegally 'buy' houses through their spouse should pay the full price. Those with kids, who put a burden on the Thai government, should also pay full price. 

 

[ThailandRyan]

1 minute ago, Neeranam said:

Would they prefer that they pay more so that the parks can lower the cost for foreigner tourists or expats that don't want to go through the residency process? 

I certainly wouldn't want to pay the same as those foreign tourists. I would agree to those expats who work here to get the local discount too. Foreign pensioners should pay the normal price, as they are not paying tax and they are getting so many other benefits, including the easier than normal immigration process, reduced travel costs, etc.

Those foreigners who illegally 'buy' houses through their spouse should pay the full price. Those with kids, who put a burden on the Thai government, should also pay full price. 

 

Just for grins and giggles how many of us expats do you believe can obtain residency, as we arrived here retired, do not work, never have paid taxes and were or are married to a Thai.  I find your continued insistence that "expats that don't want to go through the residency process" is insulting as many of us can not.  While we are on the subject, "Why should a foreign woman be able to obtain residency and citizenship after marrying a Thai, but a foreign man not be given the same opportunity?".  That is insulting as well. 

[Neeranam]

12 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

Just for grins and giggles how many of us expats do you believe can obtain residency, as we arrived here retired, do not work, never have paid taxes and were or are married to a Thai. 

That was my point, if you don't pay taxes, you don't get reductions in prices. 

[ThailandRyan]

2 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

That was my point, if you don't pay taxes, you don't get reductions in prices. 

So then how about those Thais whom do not pay taxes, and I guess for those of us paying the annual residence taxes isn't considered paying Tax, nor the Vat that is payed by us on our purchases either.....you sure you want to go down that road.....

[Neeranam]

27 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

I find your continued insistence that "expats that don't want to go through the residency process" is insulting as many of us can not.

Why insulting? In my 30 years working here, I've met very few who are willing to go the Naturalization process for varying reasons. 

One of the reasons is the lax immigration laws.

Of course pensioners can't go through the process, like many other places in the world. 

I could say I am insulted by some expats saying that the Thai government discriminates against them when it just isn't true. 

How many countries in the world could you retire to and get citizenship, or even Permanent residency?

As a Thai, I am asked to INVEST 16 million baht to retire in the USA, for example. Retirees in Thailand have invest diddley squat, but just show 800,000 baht in the bank - I'd like to see some reciprocation in these areas. 

How many Thais could go to the USA and get married as easily as those Americans coming here?

Of course the Thai Naturalization Law has to be different than in developed countries.  The law is different for men and women due to the rather obvious. 

Should a retired Western guy marrying Buriram Noi(former 'cashier' at the Pink Pussy bar) be eligible for Citizenship? Of course not, the implications are obvious. Western women marrying Thai men are a completely different kettle of fish. 

Edited June 9, 2022 by Neeranam

[richard_smith237]

2 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Why insulting? In my 30 years working here, I've met very few who are willing to go the Naturalization process for varying reasons. 

One of the reasons is the lax immigration laws.

Of course pensioners can't go through the process, like many other places in the world. 

I could say I am insulted by some expats saying that the Thai government discriminates against them when it just isn't true. 

How many countries in the world could you retire to and get citizenship, or even Permanent residency?

Many if Married to a Local.... 

But, I’m married to a Thai and have lived in Thailand for 25 years, but I work overseas.

The intervals I have worked in Thailand have bene less than 3 years (which is required for tax records). 

 

So... How can someone who is not currently working (for more than 3 years) apply for PR and then Citizenship ????????

 

2 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

As a Thai, I am asked to INVEST 16 million baht to retire in the USA, for example. Retirees in Thailand have invest diddley squat, but just show 800,000 baht in the bank - I'd like to see some reciprocation in these areas. 

As I Thai my Wife can get residency (ILR), and a few years after that she can get citizenship.

No need for investment or for her to work etc...

 

2 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

How many Thais could go to the USA and get married as easily as those Americans coming here?

Married ones ? or single ?

 

2 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Of course the Thai Naturalization Law has to be different than in developed countries.  The law is different for men and women due to the rather obvious. 

Should a retired Western guy marrying Buriram Noi be eligible for Citizenship? Of course not, the implications are obvious. Western women marrying Thai men are a completely different kettle of fish. 

A Wester woman marrying a Thai man of equal socio-economic status is not different from a Western man marrying a Thai woman of equal socio-economic status...   So why can’t they be eligible for PR or citizenship (as the UK or US?)... 

 

The law being different for men and women is antiquated and highlights an old fashioned mindset of a those making policy in a developing nation not a moderate developed nation.... 

 

 

I do understand your point.... Marriages of convenience for a visa... ? but does that happen ?....   Does Bob the retired plasterer quickly get hitched to Nok from the bar for the ease of visa?...   

 

 

 

 

[Neeranam]

12 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

So then how about those Thais whom do not pay taxes, and I guess for those of us paying the annual residence taxes isn't considered paying Tax, nor the Vat that is payed by us on our purchases either.....you sure you want to go down that road.....

Do you really want Thais to be questioned by Somchai, who is just a ticket seller, on how much tax they have paid? Get real. 

Do you want poor Thais that don't pay tax to not get a reduction ? I hope not. 

Should the foreign 2-week tourist pay the same as the 2 month tourist or the 6 month one?

It's rather a Colonial superior attitude to say that you pay so much tax on goods that you deserve to go to a park in Thailand cheaper than a Thai wo doesn't work. 

 

 

[Neeranam]

1 minute ago, richard_smith237 said:

I do understand your point.... Marriages of convenience for a visa... ? but does that happen ?....   Does Bob the retired plasterer quickly get hitched to Nok from the bar for the ease of visa?...   

No, because getting a Thai visa is so easy already. 

Many expats I know don't even satisfy visa requirements, yet can stay here for a year by bribing immigration $500. Do you want to go down that road?

There are so many illegal immigrants here, usually poor pensioners that are probably the ones making the biggest fuss over having to pay 200 baht, once a year, more than a poor farmer from Nakhon Nowhere

They love Thailand for some things, yet moan at other little things. 

[ThailandRyan]

3 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Do you really want Thais to be questioned by Somchai, who is just a ticket seller, on how much tax they have paid? Get real. 

Do you want poor Thais that don't pay tax to not get a reduction ? I hope not. 

Should the foreign 2-week tourist pay the same as the 2 month tourist or the 6 month one?

It's rather a Colonial superior attitude to say that you pay so much tax on goods that you deserve to go to a park in Thailand cheaper than a Thai wo doesn't work. 

 

 

I never intimated a colonial superior attitude.  My point on the taxes paid was a rebuttal to your words of expats not paying taxes like a Thai or even yourself.  A tourist is a tourist while a retiree living here with his Thai family is a resident and not here for two weeks or as a 6 month tourist.  Your view is skewed to say the least.

[Excel]

Just now, ThailandRyan said:

I never intimated a colonial superior attitude.  My point on the taxes paid was a rebuttal to your words of expats not paying taxes like a Thai or even yourself.  A tourist is a tourist while a retiree living here with his Thai family is a resident and not here for two weeks or as a 6 month tourist.  Your view is skewed to say the least.

And many expats who work here are paying a very high amount of taxes in general too.

[richard_smith237]

2 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

It's rather a Colonial superior attitude to say that you pay so much tax on goods that you deserve to go to a park in Thailand cheaper than a Thai wo doesn't work. 

No one is suggesting cheaper than Thai’s... just a level equality thats all. 

 

Tax is not a valid justification to argue all foreigners should pay 10x the entrance fee compared to Thai’s who have ever never paid Tax or who are extremely wealthy and have pad lots of tax and anywhere between... 

 

Foreigners fit within he same Thailand income tax spectrum - thus having paid income tax or not is a very poor justification for the 10x surcharge foreigners are expected to pay. 

 

[Neeranam]

5 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

A Wester woman marrying a Thai man of equal socio-economic status is not different from a Western man marrying a Thai woman of equal socio-economic status...   So why can’t they be eligible for PR or citizenship (as the UK or US?)... 

 

The law being different for men and women is antiquated and highlights an old fashioned mindset of a those making policy in a developing nation not a moderate developed nation.... 

Unfortunately, those types of marriages are outnumbered by the ones with a huge socio-economic difference. 

 

The Nationality Act was changed recently, allowing married men to get Citizenship in an easy process, without even having to speak Thai. Fact is, most foreigners don't even know this and believe the barstool myth that it's impossible. As I have always tried integrating into society and learning to read newspapers, I found this out and got Citizenship, despite being a low-paid English teacher. 

[Neeranam]

2 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Foreigners fit within he same Thailand income tax spectrum - thus having paid income tax or not is a very poor justification for the 10x surcharge foreigners are expected to pay. 

It is not a surcharge. It is the normal price. 

[Mike Teavee]

2 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

They clearly were, the chinese tourist were furious... 

...  they had no baggage with them... and just had a small bag of 7-11 stuff... 

Its clear they had walked over the National Park line (border type thing) and were picked up walking back in.... it was a proper obvious stich-up. 

 

When they had the "Checkpoints" at Sai Kaew Beach they would check the tickets on each entry (though in quiet times they would recognise you from previous days & wave you on), so I suspect it was a misunderstanding & the Chinese tourists didn't have their tickets with them so were asked to pay again. 

 

The 200 THB "Entry ticket" is valid for 5 days & many times I've shown a ticket bought days earlier & passed with no problems (They also used to check your ticket if you went to one of the other beaches & again never a problem if you have one purchased within the previous 5 days).

 

Nowadays you purchase a ticket when you get off the ferry so if you visit for more than 5 days there is no need to purchase another ticket. 

 

 

 

Edited June 9, 2022 by Mike Teavee

[ThailandRyan]

1 hour ago, Neeranam said:

It is not a surcharge. It is the normal price. 

No its not, it's a dual pricing  structure where foreigners pay 10x or 5x the price a Thai national does regardless if they are a tourist or a longtime resident. Why is that so hard for you to understand.  Just because you now have Thai citizenship you seem to have become unable to see through the murkiness.......the OP also indicates they want to have a Type of ID card, which many alresdy have a Thai ID of some sort, a Thai DL or a Non Immigrant ID card, which can and are used by the longterm expats to obtain the resident price.  Resident price versus Tourist dual pr8cing is what we are discussing.  What's the difference between your family and a family with  Thai children, a Thai wife, and a foreigner father, but a resident which this government is blind to.  Of course your Thai now, but you were not before and therfore you were subject to the same as we are.  You just refuse to see it.  I am done trying to rationalize this with you.  TTFN.

Edited June 9, 2022 by ThailandRyan

[Dickp]

What does your Thai family think of you (and them) not going to any National Parks where they get in for a discounted price?

Your word tisting, you need to work for Bidin. Your words with a tisted reply. "Would they prefer that they pay more so that the parks can lower the cost for foreigner tourists or expats that don't want to go through the residency process?" 

 

No they beleive it's wrong to dual price on anyone just because there here and not Thai. I never said that "my Thai family does not go to any National Parks where they get in for a discounted price"? They travel a lot here to places that have due have dual price, or over seas, to National parks around the world that do not have dual pricing. other.  They just feel it's not correct thing for a goverment to do dual price.

I see by your words that you are not a natual born Thai. Seems you think just because I have been here 30+ plus years I should have change to Thai Nationalty! Lets see 1,900.00 X 31 yrs = 58,900.00 THB for yearly renewal of stay and and the cost of 191,400 THB cost to change to Thai Nationalty.

PLUS 

Notification of Immigration Commission Criterion and conditions of foreign nationals’ residential permit consideration Base on the authority prescribed in Section 7, Section 41, Section 43 and Section 45 of Immigration Act B.E. 2522 stipulate that foreign nationals who wish to attain resident in the Kingdom of Thailand may apply for resident permit with the Immigration Commission

 

 1.4 The applicant must be able to understand and speak Thai language

So looks like some of your past data is wrong.

But the cost is not why I never changed to be a Thai national, it was more work related. Had to be US born national and NO dual nationalty, real good money and alot of traveling..

[4MyEgo]

On 6/6/2022 at 6:56 PM, RocketDog said:

So, by the same reasoning the Thai people also contribute to society by living here. So much for that argument.

And, as in any society, we expats are free to pay for things we want and ignore what we don't want.

I think the point you missed was that if your not a Citizen, you have no argument, in other words we are simply guests contributing to Thai society in exchange for living here.

 

You summed it up when you said: 

On 6/6/2022 at 6:56 PM, RocketDog said:

At the end of the day the fees are pocket change anyway and hardly worth getting your nose bent about.

 

I know: "but it's the principle of the thing ".

The principle of the thing is that it's still pocket change.

I left the principal thing behind, because it doesn't exist here, hold onto it and you will only get upset, just duck and weave, and avoid and life is as perfect as it can be here.

[jacko45k]

15 hours ago, Neeranam said:

That was my point, if you don't pay taxes, you don't get reductions in prices. 

So  how do I avoid the purchase tax, vehicle tax etc I am subjected to?

[ed strong]

On 6/9/2022 at 10:58 AM, richard_smith237 said:

It would have just been easier for you to write “If you don’t like it go home” !!! .... 

 

Your response is that of a door-mat.

 

But, my Wife and many of my friends are Thai, they also voice their opinion that the believe dual pricing is wrong... I suppose you’ll fund a way to suggest that their options are valueless because they know a foreigner !!!!

 

And... I am allow to work in Thailand, I have worked in Thailand many times.. 

It’s taken me a matter of days to secure a work permit (not me, but the company I’ve worked for) when ever I’ve worked in Thailand. 

 

For you it may normal to look down and expect the worst of others, but I like Thailand, I expect better things and would like to see Thailand develop into the modern world when it comes to these ‘official attitudes’ which are currently somewhat antiquated and appear uneducated. 

 

Additionally, why do you think I’m frustrated... I have an opinion thats all.

Do you let your opinions get you frustrated and spoil your day ? - don’t project !

 

 

Are you really suggesting we should not develop opinions of something we do not agree because it has happened long before we were here??....    You’re on the wrong side of history for that one (just think of any rights movements down to simple letters of petition). 

 

Additionally,  forums such as this highlight opinion....  The TM30 regulations were altered because people voiced opinions... Now many of use have it a tiny bit easier because of that. 

 

Your comments have not in anyway or form justified dual pricing, but they haves simply highlighted that fecklessness is your modus-operandi. 

 

 

 The thing i have found with Thailand is you will do better to accept there way of living and culture rather than trying to change it. The pricing structure encourages the parks to be used by nationals of Thailand...is it a national park.

 

There are clubs in the UK that you cannot join if you live outside of a certain post code so its a service offered to locals than others from outside cannot visit or participate in, end of story.

 

Let me guess your Thai friends are at least 90% women if not 100% of course they will agree with you. You are the boss at the end of the day. When you bring this up with Thais you are more than likely coming across as sounding slightly obnoxious, they wont call you out on it, however be aware you are a visitor and respect the country that you now live in.

[RocketDog]

23 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

I think the point you missed was that if your not a Citizen, you have no argument, in other words we are simply guests contributing to Thai society in exchange for living here.

 

You summed it up when you said: 

I left the principal thing behind, because it doesn't exist here, hold onto it and you will only get upset, just duck and weave, and avoid and life is as perfect as it can be here.

So true. My mantra is "Lower Your Expectation". 

My opinion of western society is that we were all conditioned to have fantastic  expectations of life. Unreasonable expectations lead to unbearable disappointments and a feeling that the world and/or society has unfairly cheated you out of joy. The thing you do is retaliate.

"if you really want it and work for it you can be president."

 

Like I'd really want such a tragic fate.

 

Take joy where you find it and just tolerate the rest. For me joy is easier to find here than in my home country. It's that simple.

[4MyEgo]

22 minutes ago, RocketDog said:

Take joy where you find it and just tolerate the rest. For me joy is easier to find here than in my home country. It's that simple.

Amen to that.

 

Life is so cheap here, that is one of my main joys here for me, the weather is also great vs the constant disappointment everyone is telling me now days back in the old country, inflation, property prices, fuel, gas, electricity, food, everything up, and now of course rising interest rates, also lets not forget the miserable cold weather they have to endure.

 

Joy to us ????

[DjSilver]

On 6/6/2022 at 10:05 AM, Thunglom said:

There is a lot of examples racism on this site but dual pricing isn't one of them. The pricing is based on the assumption that foreigners are richer than Thai visitors and the extra money raised will contribute to the maintenance of the parks. This is patently not true - but it isn't racism.

In fact it is those who claim it to be racist who are the racists. White rcisits love to claim that other ethnicities are "racist against them". Racists see racism everywhere in other ethnicities and then deny their own actions are racist - coincidence??

Just because someone is more rich than someone else doesn't mean they should be paying more for the same. Than we are talking about discrimination.

 

I like to eat my everyday street food noodles for 40 baht and I would never even consider buying it if I had to pay 50 baht for the same noodles that Thais pay 40 baht for. I would just stop going there all together and go somewhere else instead that is not racially discriminating me.

[Photoguy21]

On 6/6/2022 at 4:12 AM, Thechook said:

If we thought of doing this in Australia we would be branded racist and face fines.  No matter where you come from even Thailand you pay the same as locals.

Same in the UK

[Thunglom]

1 hour ago, DjSilver said:

Just because someone is more rich than someone else doesn't mean they should be paying more for the same. Than we are talking about discrimination.

 

I like to eat my everyday street food noodles for 40 baht and I would never even consider buying it if I had to pay 50 baht for the same noodles that Thais pay 40 baht for. I would just stop going there all together and go somewhere else instead that is not racially discriminating me.

Yes - it isn't racist though. It's divided by non-Thai, nothing else.

BTW - 40 against 50 is wildly different from 40 against 400.

White people claiming they are racially discriminated against just shows they are racist and trying to justify their racist views bty claimiing others practice racism. THisis also incorrect as racism is based on a pseudo-scientific belief in a racial hierarchy. None of this has anything to do with dual pricing at NPs and elsewhere.

 

[Hanuman2547]

6 hours ago, Thunglom said:

Yes - it isn't racist though. It's divided by non-Thai, nothing else.

BTW - 40 against 50 is wildly different from 40 against 400.

White people claiming they are racially discriminated against just shows they are racist and trying to justify their racist views bty claimiing others practice racism. THisis also incorrect as racism is based on a pseudo-scientific belief in a racial hierarchy. None of this has anything to do with dual pricing at NPs and elsewhere.

 

Correct.  It's more about xenophobia than anything else.  You're either a Thai or you're not.  Thais get one price, non-Thais get a much higher price.  

[MarcB]

Like they care.

If 1 foreigner pays, they do not need 4 other foreigners if calculated at local price.

So, less dirty foreign visitors, and more room for Thais only.

Let's face it, they dont really like tourists. They just like tourists moneyyyy

[Speedhump]

16 hours ago, Thunglom said:

White people claiming they are racially discriminated against just shows they are racist and trying to justify their racist views bty claimiing others practice racism. 

 

Sorry, this is dumb. White people can be racially discriminated against, and for them to call it out is NOT racist. What are you talking about? 

 

Anyway if a person is xenophobic, they also are by definition racist, just against every 'foreign' race. The only slight distinction possible is the dictionary definitions, fear is not necessarily hatred, but the two do go hand in hand very often, and the words are often used interchangeably, even by the media . 

[Mac Mickmanus]

16 hours ago, Thunglom said:

 

White people claiming they are racially discriminated against just shows they are racist and trying to justify their racist views bty claimiing others practice racism. 

 

Racists are being racist by accusing others of being racist because they are being racist against them ?

[jacko45k]

5 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Racists are being racist by accusing others of being racist because they are being racist against them ?

I think we are all racist, but the best of us do not show it!

[mogandave]

On 6/6/2022 at 6:48 AM, ThailandRyan said:

No it's not.  Non resident pricing for Disneyland and some places like it have always been done as locals go more often, but you do not pay more to go to a museum or national park....nice try.

You are just wrong.

 

Buy a California fishing license or visit a state park.