It's all going cashless!

[lopburi3]

I read all 4 pages and know I am probably in the minority but not convinced I want to use something I can not see without it being too large to hold or pocket and take chance of theft due my error or 3rd party.  Cash is cash and I am able to count, even in old age.  Will stick with my Nokia basic phone, which I can hold in one hand, does not require recharge every hour and I can actually hear a phone call - and I don't have to submit to a body search to use.  ????

Edited June 9, 2022 by lopburi3

[huangnon]

Some of the disadvantages of a cashless society:

Quote

Disadvantages of a Cash-Free World

Depending on your perspective, going cashless might be more problematic than beneficial. Here are some of the major downsides associated with a cashless financial system.

 

Digital Transactions Sacrifice Privacy

Electronic payments aren't as private as cash payments. You might trust the organizations that handle your data, and you might have nothing to hide. However, the more information you have floating around online, the more likely it is to wind up in malicious hands.6

 

Cash allows you to spend money and receive funds anonymously.

 

 

Cashless Transactions Are Exposed to Hacking Risks

Hackers are the bank robbers and muggers of the electronic world. In a cashless society, you're more exposed to hackers. If you are targeted and somebody drains your account, you may not have any alternative ways to spend money. Even if you're protected under federal law, it will still be inconvenient to restore your financial standing after a breach.7

 

Technology Problems Could Impact Your Access to Funds

Glitches, outages, and innocent mistakes can also cause problems, leaving you unable to buy things when you need to. Likewise, merchants have no way to accept payments when systems malfunction. Even something as simple as a dead phone battery could leave you "penniless," in a sense.

 

Economic Inequality Could Become Exacerbated

Unless special outreach efforts are made, the poor and unbanked will likely have an even harder time in a cashless society. If smartphone purchases become the standard way to transact, for example, those who can't afford smartphones will be left behind. The UK is experimenting with contactless ways to donate to charities and homeless individuals, but these efforts may not be developed enough yet to substitute cash donations.89

 

Payment Providers Could Charge Fees

If society is forced to choose from just a few payment methods, or if one app becomes the standard payment app, the companies who develop these services might not offer them for free. Payment processors may cash in on the high volumes by imposing fees, which would eliminate the savings that should come from less cash handling.10

 

The Temptation To Overspend May Increase

When you spend with cash, you recognize the financial impact by physically taking the cash out of your pocket and giving it to someone else. With electronic payments, on the other hand, it's easy to swipe, tap, or click without noticing how much you spend. Consumers may have to rethink the ways they manage their spending.

 

Negative Interest Rates Could Be Passed Onto Customers

When all money is electronic, negative interest rates could have a more direct effect on consumers. Countries like Denmark, Japan, and Switzerland have already experimented with negative interest rates.

 

Dropping the interest rate is typically a move to stimulate an economy, but the result is that money loses purchasing power.11

According to the International Monetary Fund, negative interest rates reduce bank profitability, and banks could be tempted to hike fees on customers to make up that deficit. Banks are limited in their ability to pass on those costs because customers can simply withdraw their cash from the bank if they don't like the fees.12 In the future, if customers can't withdraw cash from the bank, they may have to accept any additional fees.

I would also be wary of the power of megacorps (CP, example) in Thailand, that might exert control over payments to any competition they might yet have. All of a sudden your card doesn't work in Nong's Minimart..

Cashless is promoted as "convenient", but I doubt that is for consumers.

 

 

[Lacessit]

15 minutes ago, lopburi3 said:

I read all 4 pages and know I am probably in the minority but not convinced I want to use something I can not see without it being too large to hold or pocket and take chance of theft due my error or 3rd party.  Cash is cash and I am able to count, even in old age.  Will stick with my Nokia basic phone, which I can hold in one hand, does not require recharge every hour and I can actually hear a phone call - and I don't have to submit to a body search to use.  ????

You raise a valid point, to get the cash from my pocket, a thief would have to get past 6 feet and 85 kg of suspicious me.

OTOH, a thief could empty my phone account and I would be none the wiser until the next time I try to buy something, and it could take quite some time to get it sorted with a Thai bank, due to the language barrier.

I do wonder sometimes whether we are not outsmarting ourselves. The latest in self-driving technology, if one reads the fine print, contains the disclaimer the technology is not intended for use with a long list of conditions. I've been driving a 2006 Vios here for 8 years, it doesn't even have ABS.

Keep It Simple, Stupid.

[connda]

Businesses that go cashless will lose my business.
I keep getting stuck behind people who spend two to five minutes dinking with their phone to make a QR payment.  Credit cards often take time too especially when they simply don't work.  And trust me - billionaires are collecting your spending data and selling it to make more billions from what should be your own private purchases.  I even do COD with Lazada and Shopee.  It's just sooo much easier.
"But it's convenient!!!"
Convenient my foot.  It's about tracking you.

[connda]

37 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

You raise a valid point, to get the cash from my pocket, a thief would have to get past 6 feet and 85 kg of suspicious me.

OTOH, a thief could empty my phone account and I would be none the wiser until the next time I try to buy something, and it could take quite some time to get it sorted with a Thai bank, due to the language barrier.

I do wonder sometimes whether we are not outsmarting ourselves. The latest in self-driving technology, if one reads the fine print, contains the disclaimer the technology is not intended for use with a long list of conditions. I've been driving a 2006 Vios here for 8 years, it doesn't even have ABS.

Keep It Simple, Stupid.

Thank you.  I agree.  KISS!

[richard_smith237]

12 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

12 hours ago, Lacessit said:

It may be great for some moron with a smartphone who is paying for their goods at a supermarket checkout. It's not so convenient when they have a queue of people behind them waiting for said moron to get their act together on the phone to make payment after a minute or two of fumbling.

It's bad enough Thai checkout chicks have never heard of Aldi checkout speeds, 3000 items an hour, without adding in cashless payment. Ever seen a Thai trying to pay by phone when they have left their glasses somewhere else, that's what I mean.

Expand  

Its usually quicker when paying cashless than it is with paying cash . 

People having to find their money, forgetting which pocket they put into , then counting it out and giving it to the cashier, the cashier then counting the money , putting it into the till and then counting out the change , sometimes counting the change out five times to make sure they got it right and often the cashier having to go into the safe to get smaller notes out . 

I think there are extremes on both sides and some people are just slow. 

Cash / Credit-Card / Banking App are all quick if you’re not a halfwit - thats about the crux of it. 

 

Singling out the slow people for confirmation bias to justify preference for cash or cashless payment is not presenting a balanced point. 

[Lacessit]

2 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

I think there are extremes on both sides and some people are just slow. 

Cash / Credit-Card / Banking App are all quick if you’re not a halfwit - thats about the crux of it. 

 

Singling out the slow people for confirmation bias to justify preference for cash or cashless payment is not presenting a balanced point. 

That's a nice lure on the fishing line, tempting me to estimate how many halfwits there are in Thailand. Just take a Sunday drive, OK?

 

I suppose one could argue phones are contactless, cash spreads COVID.

So you're comfortable with the government knowing about your hypothetical bit of fluff on the side?

 

 

[richard_smith237]

43 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

You raise a valid point, to get the cash from my pocket, a thief would have to get past 6 feet and 85 kg of suspicious me.

OTOH, a thief could empty my phone account and I would be none the wiser until the next time I try to buy something, and it could take quite some time to get it sorted with a Thai bank, due to the language barrier.

Cheery picked bias. 

OR you drop your wallet - you lose the cash. 

If I drop my phone no one can get my cash unless they have my face. 

 

Two tier authentication makes it extremely difficult for anyone else to access your accounts. 

I have dropped money, lost a wallet etc... I’ve never had money taken from my account in Thailand. 

 

That said: I have been caught by Credit Card Fraud - money has always always returned as the CC companies offer protection.

 

One think I do do....  I have two accounts: One with a smaller amount in it I use as a daily account for QR payments and ATM....   Another which is the main account. 

I try to use Credit Card Payments as much as possible, wherever possible, its gives us points for flights or decent discounts in the Mall Group.

 

43 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

I do wonder sometimes whether we are not outsmarting ourselves.

No we are not all being outsmarted...   some are just being outsmarted as they are unable to keep up. 

I’m sure the same will happen to me as I get older....  NFT’s and Block-chain is already enough of a struggle. 

 

43 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

The latest in self-driving technology, if one reads the fine print, contains the disclaimer the technology is not intended for use with a long list of conditions. I've been driving a 2006 Vios here for 8 years, it doesn't even have ABS.

Keep It Simple, Stupid.

The fear of new tech is somewhat ‘boomer-ish’....  My father hated electric windows in the 80’s...  'Just another thing to go wrong’....   

 

I agree... Keep it simple - let the tech work for me - it’ll save me hassle in the long run, ABS, BlindSpot warning, lane departure warning, heads up display, collision warning alert, collision avoidance....  etc etc...  all excellent and can prevent anyone from having an accident.... 

I’m sure ABS on my motorcycle has already...

Of course, you’ll say that you don’t need that as you drive with attention etc... until you don’t (dunning Kruger effect).

 

We’ve digressed....  The point I want to make is that every weakness of a cashless society can be mirrored by using cash...  It ultimately comes down to preference, nothing completely free of risk or pitfalls....  I’m sure ‘holding something tangiable’ is preferred for the olds who are far more used to it, where as the younger generation much prefer cash-less, they’ve grown to trust it and its more convenient. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Lacessit]

3 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Cheery picked bias. 

OR you drop your wallet - you lose the cash. 

If I drop my phone no one can get my cash unless they have my face. 

 

Two tier authentication makes it extremely difficult for anyone else to access your accounts. 

I have dropped money, lost a wallet etc... I’ve never had money taken from my account in Thailand. 

 

That said: I have been caught by Credit Card Fraud - money has always always returned as the CC companies offer protection.

 

One think I do do....  I have two accounts: One with a smaller amount in it I use as a daily account for QR payments and ATM....   Another which is the main account. 

I try to use Credit Card Payments as much as possible, wherever possible, its gives us points for flights or decent discounts in the Mall Group.

 

No we are not all being outsmarted...   some are just being outsmarted as they are unable to keep up. 

I’m sure the same will happen to me as I get older....  NFT’s and Block-chain is already enough of a struggle. 

 

The fear of new tech is somewhat ‘boomer-ish’....  My father hated electric windows in the 80’s...  'Just another thing to go wrong’....   

 

I agree... Keep it simple - let the tech work for me - it’ll save me hassle in the long run, ABS, BlindSpot warning, lane departure warning, heads up display, collision warning alert, collision avoidance....  etc etc...  all excellent and can prevent anyone from having an accident.... 

I’m sure ABS on my motorcycle has already...

Of course, you’ll say that you don’t need that as you drive with attention etc... until you don’t (dunning Kruger effect).

 

We’ve digressed....  The point I want to make is that every weakness of a cashless society can be mirrored by using cash...  It ultimately comes down to preference, nothing completely free of risk or pitfalls....  I’m sure ‘holding something tangiable’ is preferred for the olds who are far more used to it, where as the younger generation much prefer cash-less, they’ve grown to trust it and its more convenient. 

 

 

 

 

 

You raise some valid points, I am sure.

If anything, I have the obverse of Dunning - Kruger effect - I err on the pessimistic side of my capabilities, which is probably why I have never had an accident on the scooter or in the car in ten years of driving here.

I don't carry a wallet here, strictly cash, I can't drop what I don't have.

I suppose I am selective in the new technologies I embrace, comfortable with DUO, ZOOM, and video editing software.

Actually, I am pre-Boomer.

[Denim]

2 hours ago, Lacessit said:

Homo sapiens has been around for about 200,000 years,

The way things are going humans will be unnecessary in the future since at the moment the machines are taking over all our jobs. Once almost everyone is unemployed the machines can take over our social interactions as well. No need to make love to a woman....get a machine to do it for you. Oh hang on .....that is already an option.

[DrJoy]

17 hours ago, Crossy said:

 

The only negative is that Makro won't accept TrueMoney if linked to a credit card, cash load only ???? 

 

Of course they accept the same CitiBank card as a physical card. TiT.

Citi is taken over by UOB, so UOB cards will be accepted in the near term 

[billd766]

16 hours ago, redwood1 said:

Or you can forget all this wifi stuff and just pay AIS 1,800 Baht a year for unlimited data 24/7/365 ...

Do you have a link to that please?

[billd766]

5 hours ago, daveAustin said:

Only because the Thai system is slow and cumbersome. With Apple Pay back in the world, I wouldn’t even bother carrying cash or any cards for weeks on end. So fast!

But this is not the world as you know it. This is Thailand as it is, rather than how posters would like it to be.

[billd766]

1 hour ago, richard_smith237 said:

I think there are extremes on both sides and some people are just slow. 

Cash / Credit-Card / Banking App are all quick if you’re not a halfwit - thats about the crux of it. 

 

Singling out the slow people for confirmation bias to justify preference for cash or cashless payment is not presenting a balanced point. 

But it is reality in todays world.

[richard_smith237]

12 minutes ago, billd766 said:

1 hour ago, richard_smith237 said:

I think there are extremes on both sides and some people are just slow. 

Cash / Credit-Card / Banking App are all quick if you’re not a halfwit - thats about the crux of it. 

 

Singling out the slow people for confirmation bias to justify preference for cash or cashless payment is not presenting a balanced point. 

But it is reality in todays world.

Agreed....  and its likely that the same people who are slow to dig out their purse or wallet then dig around for cash or the right card are also the same people who are slow to get there Banking App out to scan the QR code... 

 

But... its does improve... when we can ‘tap our phone’ (or watch) on an receiver at a check out and just select ‘yes’ on the pop-up window on our phone... life has just become a little simpler...  although I understand why that process in itself may be too much for some and the prefer good old fashioned cash.... 

 

It should come down to personal preference in the end and if stores want to go cash-less only, I think they’d lose some customers and that would be silly.

 

 

[Lacessit]

56 minutes ago, Denim said:

The way things are going humans will be unnecessary in the future since at the moment the machines are taking over all our jobs. Once almost everyone is unemployed the machines can take over our social interactions as well. No need to make love to a woman....get a machine to do it for you. Oh hang on .....that is already an option.

IIRC, it was the Japanese who invented blow-up dolls for their sailors on long voyages.

[billd766]

10 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Agreed....  and its likely that the same people who are slow to dig out their purse or wallet then dig around for cash or the right card are also the same people who are slow to get there Banking App out to scan the QR code... 

 

But... its does improve... when we can ‘tap our phone’ (or watch) on an receiver at a check out and just select ‘yes’ on the pop-up window on our phone... life has just become a little simpler...  although I understand why that process in itself may be too much for some and the prefer good old fashioned cash.... 

 

It should come down to personal preference in the end and if stores want to go cash-less only, I think they’d lose some customers and that would be silly.

 

 

TBH I really can't think of anything much simpler than paying in cash. You know how much cash you have to spend and you can keep to that limit.

[redwood1]

57 minutes ago, billd766 said:

Do you have a link to that please?

  14 hours ago, PFMills said:

That sounds a deal, I've never seen that advertised, what is the package called please and what speed do you get.

It's called  Mao Unlimited Internet 1Mbps 12 months.......Its fine for most things..Maybe a tiny bit slow but unless your a very heavy user you will not notice much......I have had it for about 5 years now...For 1,800 a year it's great...

[xylophone]

2 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

Cash / Credit-Card / Banking App are all quick if you’re not a halfwit - thats about the crux of it. 

I must have been terribly unlucky in encountering more than my fair share of halfwits because so many times I have waited in line behind people who are trying to pay bills with their smart phones, in the likes of Starbucks and Tops, and they seem unable to do so. 

 

Cash or debit card are my preferred methods and as you say, are all quick and easy.

[richard_smith237]

7 minutes ago, xylophone said:

2 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

Cash / Credit-Card / Banking App are all quick if you’re not a halfwit - thats about the crux of it. 

I must have been terribly unlucky in encountering more than my fair share of halfwits because so many times I have waited in line behind people who are trying to pay bills with their smart phones, in the likes of Starbucks and Tops, and they seem unable to do so. 

 

Cash or debit card are my preferred methods and as you say, are all quick and easy.

Possibly confirmation bias...   you notice someone faffing with their phone, it draws attention, you look for it to take more time because you don’t like it. 

 

Those who don’t like it seem to only be highlighting being slowed down in a ’supermarket’... are you over egging the pudding ???

 

How often are you in a supermarket and how often does someone slow you down? and for how long ? 30 seconds, 1 min ?

 

 

What about in other situations....   Taxi (cashless with Grab), Paying by QR code in a bar or restaurant....  You’d never notice a slow person infant of you or around you. 

 

For me, by far more worse than someone being slow to pay is the self-centred moron who realises ‘forgot something’ half way through checking out and nips back into the supermarket to get their ‘important must have item’....... 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 9, 2022 by richard_smith237

[BritManToo]

10 minutes ago, xylophone said:

I must have been terribly unlucky in encountering more than my fair share of halfwits because so many times I have waited in line behind people who are trying to pay bills with their smart phones, in the likes of Starbucks and Tops, and they seem unable to do so. 

 

Cash or debit card are my preferred methods and as you say, are all quick and easy.

1. Open banking app,

2. select Scan,

3. point phone camera at QR code, enter amount (if not already entered from QR),

4. type in your security number.

Not that hard to do.

Edited June 9, 2022 by BritManToo

[xylophone]

8 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Possibly confirmation bias...   you notice someone faffing with their phone, it draws attention, you look for it to take more time because you don’t like it. 

Nonsense, I don't have a bias one way or the other, but waiting for many minutes, and actually going to another checkout queue, because someone in the front has tried many times to pay a bill with their smart phone, and not succeeded, just shows that supposedly simple things, do not work for everybody.

 

It would be great if it was as quick as it is supposed to be, but often as not, it isn't.

 

Maybe I pick the queues with more than its fair share of halfwits in it!

[billd766]

34 minutes ago, redwood1 said:

  14 hours ago, PFMills said:

That sounds a deal, I've never seen that advertised, what is the package called please and what speed do you get.

It's called  Mao Unlimited Internet 1Mbps 12 months.......Its fine for most things..Maybe a tiny bit slow but unless your a very heavy user you will not notice much......I have had it for about 5 years now...For 1,800 a year it's great...

Thank you.

 

[billd766]

18 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

1. Open banking app,

2. select Scan,

3. point phone camera at QR code, enter amount (if not already entered from QR),

4. type in your security number.

Not that hard to do.

1   see how much you have to pay,

2   take out cash and give the cashier

3   collect bill and change

4    Say thank you and walk away with your shopping/goods etc

 

Also not that hard to do.

[bbko]

Plus with the cashless route, there's no need to worry if the cashier shortchanges you.  A common concern with many here.

[ThailandRyan]

42 minutes ago, xylophone said:

Nonsense, I don't have a bias one way or the other, but waiting for many minutes, and actually going to another checkout queue, because someone in the front has tried many times to pay a bill with their smart phone, and not succeeded, just shows that supposedly simple things, do not work for everybody.

 

It would be great if it was as quick as it is supposed to be, but often as not, it isn't.

 

Maybe I pick the queues with more than its fair share of halfwits in it!

A few minutes out of the 1,440 minutes in each day, sounds stressful to me, especially if retired with not much else to really do except sit on your duff when you return home....,,

[ThailandRyan]

32 minutes ago, billd766 said:

1   see how much you have to pay,

2   take out cash and give the cashier

3   collect bill and change

4    Say thank you and walk away with your shopping/goods etc

 

Also not that hard to do.

3. Collect Bill and change from cashier who sits there trying to count out the change exactly, not once but twice and sometimes 3 times so they ensure it is right and do not get charged the missing coins at the end of the shift......Cashless makes there lives easier in reality and is one reason for businesses to migrate that way.

[JetsetBkk]

49 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

1. Open banking app,

2. select Scan,

3. point phone camera at QR code, enter amount (if not already entered from QR),

4. type in your security number.

Not that hard to do.

The reality:

 

1. Fumble in your pocket or handbag for your phone.

2. Switch it on.

3. Swipe until you find the banking app.

4. Tap it and wait for it to open.

5. Find the buttons to get to "Scan".

6. Tap "Scan" and wait for app to run.

7. Point phone at QR code and wait for response.

8. Try again because it didn't work.

9. Enter the amount if required.

10. Enter your security number.

11. Enter your correct security number.

12. Wait for a beep.

13. Close app and put phone back in your pocket/handbag.

14. Take bill from cashier.

 

[ThailandRyan]

1 hour ago, xylophone said:

I must have been terribly unlucky in encountering more than my fair share of halfwits because so many times I have waited in line behind people who are trying to pay bills with their smart phones, in the likes of Starbucks and Tops, and they seem unable to do so. 

 

Cash or debit card are my preferred methods and as you say, are all quick and easy.

Like Thai's we must learn to live the Sabai Sabai easy easy lifestyle and learn to relax and stay on Thai time..........

[Sametboy2019]

I agree with everybody about the negative consequences of digital money but as noted in this thread that its becoming more and more common especially with the young! 

I havent been to the West for a few years now so i cant comment on its popularity but its very common in Thailand. 

 

Like all technology they will say it wont catch on and its a fad  but in the end its inevitable! 

 

Global reserve currencies have historically lasted in cycles of about 100 years as seen on the currency chart. Fiat currencies have historically recorded an average life span of 27 yrs. The USD has been serving as a global reserve currency for over 90 years, 40 of which as a fiat global reserve currency.

 

With the amount on US dollars printed in the last couple of years and the end of the petro dollar where does this end?

 

China, Russia, and other countries will ditch the dollar and use yuan, gold, and potentially Bitcoin to trade oil. It will be the end of the petrodollar system, and it is imminent. For over 50 years, the petrodollar system has allowed the US government and many Americans to live way beyond their means.

 

BRICS is an acronym for Brazil, Russia, India, China, and South Africa. Goldman Sachs economist Jim O'Neill coined the term BRIC (without South Africa) in 2001, claiming that by 2050 the four BRIC economies would come to dominate the global economy by 2050. South Africa was added to the list in 2010.

 

If the US wants to stay on top they are going to have to innovate and make some big moves. This is where blockchain technology and CBDC's come in to play! The US is starting to make regulations on crypto and once its finalized then that will be the green light for the BIG boys to pour their money in!

 

Its gonna be a bumpy ride and all the ponzi and crypto that doesnt have utility will be regulated out of existence but a very small percentage will survive that will create the new financial system!

There is the opportunity to make lots of money if you pick the right horse