Cabinet divisions break out over U.K. plan to override Brexit treaty

[Mac Mickmanus]

18 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

If he got ‘Brexit Done’ why does he now want to undo that which he signed up to?

Maybe he has nothing better to do ?

[Chomper Higgot]

1 minute ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Maybe he has nothing better to do ?

He could deal with ‘Law and order’…… oh…. Perhaps not.

[GrandPapillon]

he needs to keep the plebe busy, before they go after his bad hair style ????

[robblok]

6 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

You must realise that situations change and if a Political party in Ireland wins an election , they may want something different to the previous Government, and so something needs to change .

   This is caused by the Irish electing a troublesome  Political party , instead of an agreeable one 

Yes I understand things like that, however you don't just tear up agreements your OWN party negotiated. Anyway its not the EU that is at fault its your government. 

 

If the UK does break its word i hope tough financial sanctions will follow. Its just crazy to do such things.

[robblok]

6 hours ago, baboon said:

I have never been so disgusted to call myself British. There are many of us just like like myself who are equally appalled. 

Don't take this forum to be an accurate representation of the British.

Oh I don't see this forum as a representation of the British at all, the demographics are totally wrong.

 

We got many older guys here who in general are far more conservative and hate the EU and live in the past days of the empire. Also this does not reflect on individual members or whatever. I know perfectly well there are plenty of Brits who hold other views.  I am sure this will add to some members calling me anti Brit because again i dared to speak out against their beloved country.

 

But this behavior is just strange, the party who negotiated this now wants to break open the deal while the ink on the contract isn't dry yet. I mean this is so short after agreeing its laughable. That is what you get when you got a PM that is a populist and driven in a corner. 

 

I just hope the EU puts up some trade sanctions in return. They must learn that you don't just break contracts like this.

 

Like you I don't agree with stuff my government does and when people call me out on it i won't defend my country because im Dutch. Stupid nationalism. 

 

 

[RayC]

2 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

He got Brexit done . 

Thats all we wanted 

No ones really bothered about the Irish border or even Irish unification 

I imagine that, as a minimum, those living on the island of Ireland have a passing interest in matters plus the Irish diaspora which includes a lot of influencal US politicians. Best to keep on their good side as we'll need to suck up to them shortly.

[RayC]

4 hours ago, TropicalGuy said:

You mean economically ? Too early to tell.

Maybe. But the short-term omens don't look great and the payback period for these perceived economic benefits seems to stretch further and further into the future by the day.

 

4 hours ago, TropicalGuy said:

Sovereignty- wise it’s been terrific from day one. 

How so? What positive difference has it made to the UK?

[herfiehandbag]

8 hours ago, GrandPapillon said:

well well, how this doesn't come as a surprise from the treacherous Boris ????

 

the EU is laughing, and maybe a possible full embargo would eventually calm down Boris and his silly ambitions ????

 

Way to go! 

 

A full embargo!

 

On the other hand, perhaps the " butterflies" have their hands full trying to persuade their partners to cave in to Russia over Ukraine?

Edited June 10, 2022 by herfiehandbag

[JonnyF]

5 hours ago, robblok said:

But this behavior is just strange, the party who negotiated this now wants to break open the deal while the ink on the contract isn't dry yet. I mean this is so short after agreeing its laughable. That is what you get when you got a PM that is a populist and driven in a corner. 

Incorrect.

 

All the Remainers/Rejoiners/Europhiles and Brit haters love to claim that the UK’s plan to abrogate the Northern Irish Protocol “breaches international law”.

 

When in reality, article 16 of the Protocol specifies that, should the agreement lead to “serious economic, societal …harms or to a diversion of trade, [parties] may unilaterally take appropriate measures.” The EU's insistence on a disproportionate amount of checks is causing these issues. So we can take appropriate measures.

 

A very intelligent clause for the UK to have added. This is what the Government is now seeking to do via legislation.

 

The EU's spitefulness and intransigence are backfiring once again. Still sulking like a dumped teenage girl 6 years after the vote ????. 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

36 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Incorrect.

 

All the Remainers/Rejoiners/Europhiles and Brit haters love to claim that the UK’s plan to abrogate the Northern Irish Protocol “breaches international law”.

 

When in reality, article 16 of the Protocol specifies that, should the agreement lead to “serious economic, societal …harms or to a diversion of trade, [parties] may unilaterally take appropriate measures.” The EU's insistence on a disproportionate amount of checks is causing these issues. So we can take appropriate measures.

 

A very intelligent clause for the UK to have added. This is what the Government is now seeking to do via legislation.

 

The EU's spitefulness and intransigence are backfiring once again. Still sulking like a dumped teenage girl 6 years after the vote ????. 

 

So answer me this then.

 

Why are members of the Tory Government arguing against their own PM that his plan to unilaterally break the NI protocol is a plan to break international law?

 

I suspect they are looking at the law, not misinformation from the rightwing press, but of course you might have evidence to the contrary.

[robblok]

1 hour ago, JonnyF said:

Incorrect.

 

All the Remainers/Rejoiners/Europhiles and Brit haters love to claim that the UK’s plan to abrogate the Northern Irish Protocol “breaches international law”.

 

When in reality, article 16 of the Protocol specifies that, should the agreement lead to “serious economic, societal …harms or to a diversion of trade, [parties] may unilaterally take appropriate measures.” The EU's insistence on a disproportionate amount of checks is causing these issues. So we can take appropriate measures.

 

A very intelligent clause for the UK to have added. This is what the Government is now seeking to do via legislation.

 

The EU's spitefulness and intransigence are backfiring once again. Still sulking like a dumped teenage girl 6 years after the vote ????. 

 

Its more that those dreaming of the empire are now understanding its not going to happen and need to keep stoking the fire of discontent to justify their decision to break away. 

 

Anyone still believing BJ and believing that what he said about Brexit was right have serious problems. I mean party gate shows how liberal the guy is with the truth.

[JonnyF]

21 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

So answer me this then.

 

Why are members of the Tory Government arguing against their own PM that his plan to unilaterally break the NI protocol is a plan to break international law?

 

I suspect they are looking at the law, not misinformation from the rightwing press, but of course you might have evidence to the contrary.

Could be a number of reasons.

 

1. Pro EU

2. Anti Boris

3. Anti Brexit

4. Views on a united Ireland

 

It's politics. Not all Conservatives like Boris (see the recent no confidence vote) and not all wanted to leave the EU (Theresa May and her BRINO machinations are a good example of this). Some are quite happy with the protocol as it fits with their aims of separating NI from the rest of the UK. Many of these will claim international law is being broken as it suits their agendas. However, it is not - due to article 16.

[JonnyF]

4 minutes ago, robblok said:

Its more that those dreaming of the empire are now understanding its not going to happen and need to keep stoking the fire of discontent to justify their decision to break away. 

 

Anyone still believing BJ and believing that what he said about Brexit was right have serious problems. I mean party gate shows how liberal the guy is with the truth.

Nobody is talking of Empire Rob, except maybe you and your extreme views on The British.

 

Believing Boris Johnson sometimes tells lies and believing that Britain is better out of the EU federalist project is not mutually exclusive. Most voters knew that both sides in 2016 were exaggerating the benefits/drawbacks of leaving the EU and made their own mind up.

[robblok]

5 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Could be a number of reasons.

 

1. Pro EU

2. Anti Boris

3. Anti Brexit

4. Views on a united Ireland

 

It's politics. Not all Conservatives like Boris (see the recent no confidence vote) and not all wanted to leave the EU (Theresa May and her BRINO machinations are a good example of this). Some are quite happy with the protocol as it fits with their aims of separating NI from the rest of the UK. Many of these will claim international law is being broken as it suits their agendas. However, it is not - due to article 16.

You forgot the real reason.. its breaking an international treaty. If you think the EU would just let this slide then you are crazy. This will hurt the UK more then the EU. 

 

Slowly but surely your Great Britain will disintegrate. (Ireland gone, Scotland gone)

[robblok]

2 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Nobody is talking of Empire Rob, except maybe you and your extreme views on The British.

 

Believing Boris Johnson sometimes tells lies and believing that Britain is better out of the EU federalist project is not mutually exclusive. Most voters knew that both sides in 2016 were exaggerating the benefits/drawbacks of leaving the EU and made their own mind up.

So its ok for you to make stupid comments about teenage girls sulking but when i make a joke about an empire its suddenly serious. Talk about double standards. Its poking fun, just like you did.

[Chomper Higgot]

10 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Could be a number of reasons.

 

1. Pro EU

2. Anti Boris

3. Anti Brexit

4. Views on a united Ireland

 

It's politics. Not all Conservatives like Boris (see the recent no confidence vote) and not all wanted to leave the EU (Theresa May and her BRINO machinations are a good example of this). Some are quite happy with the protocol as it fits with their aims of separating NI from the rest of the UK. Many of these will claim international law is being broken as it suits their agendas. However, it is not - due to article 16.

Or it could be, these Conservative MPs know that Johnson’s plans are against International Law.

[JonnyF]

Just now, robblok said:

You forgot the real reason.. its breaking an international treaty. If you think the EU would just let this slide then you are crazy. This will hurt the UK more then the EU. 

 

Slowly but surely your Great Britain will disintegrate. (Ireland gone, Scotland gone)

1. Please read about article 16 in my post above. Unilateral action is allowed.

2. The EU will do nothing of significance.

3. Ireland is not part of Great Britain. Maybe you are thinking of the UK?  ????
4. Scotland is going nowhere. Scottish Independence is dead. They voted to stay.

[JonnyF]

1 minute ago, robblok said:

So its ok for you to make stupid comments about teenage girls sulking but when i make a joke about an empire its suddenly serious. Talk about double standards. Its poking fun, just like you did.

I was comparing the EU to a sulking teenage girl that had been dumped by her boyfriend. A perfectly reasonable analogy given their behaviour.

[Chomper Higgot]

10 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Nobody is talking of Empire Rob, except maybe you and your extreme views on The British.

 

Believing Boris Johnson sometimes tells lies and believing that Britain is better out of the EU federalist project is not mutually exclusive. Most voters knew that both sides in 2016 were exaggerating the benefits/drawbacks of leaving the EU and made their own mind up.

And right now they are all experiencing the downside consequences.

 

Except that is, those in NI who are enjoying the benefits of continuing un-interrupted trade with the EU via the NI/SI open border, with the result that the NI economy is outstripping that of the rest of the UK.

 

So much for negative consequences of the NI protocol - there are none, they don’t exist.

 

 

Edited June 10, 2022 by Chomper Higgot

[TropicalGuy]

11 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Why would anyone in NI want to change the NI Protocol, the economy of NI is out performing that of the rest of the UK:

 

https://www.ft.com/content/3b5059c4-4ef1-44d1-ae1f-43a875efb7ca

 

Perhaps Rees Mogg could gather a few ‘Brexit Opportunity’ hints from the province, or would doing so upset his chums in the ERG.

Rees -Mogg speaks Clear Rational Truth . Smartest Guy in the Room. Should be and perhaps will be PM. Will go with his views every time against various bitter & twisted petulant false anti- UK <deleted> narratives????????

 

NI a Massive Financial Drain on UK.Demographics will eventually see it join Ireland. 

[TropicalGuy]

13 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

I was comparing the EU to a sulking teenage girl that had been dumped by her boyfriend. A perfectly reasonable analogy given their behaviour.

EU more like that Walliams’  flouncing aggressive gay PM PA character in “ Little Britain” ????????????????????

Edited June 10, 2022 by TropicalGuy

[Chomper Higgot]

Just now, TropicalGuy said:

Rees -Mogg speaks Clear Rational Truth . Smartest Guy in the Room. Should be and perhaps will be PM. Will go with his views every time against various bitter & twisted petulant false anti- UK <deleted> narratives????????

 

NI a Massive Financial Drain on UK.Demographics will eventually see it join Ireland. 

I’m not sure being ‘the smartest guy in the room’ is much of an accolade, given the ‘room’ is Johnson’s Government.

 

Are you missing the point that the NI unionist tail is wagging the Tory dog?

 

 

[bannork]

12 hours ago, candide said:

Exactly! Like Rees-Mogg! ????

Or Johnson's father!

[TropicalGuy]

15 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

And right now they are all experiencing the downside consequences.

 

Except that is, those in NI who are enjoying the benefits of continuing un-interrupted trade with the EU via the NI/SI open border, with the result that the NI economy is outstripping that of the rest of the UK.

 

So much for negative consequences of the NI protocol - there are none, they don’t exist.

 

 

There are no downsides. UK well rid of Protectionist Federal Failed EU. UK Covid & Ukraine Response alone proves that.

 

EU IS Deliberately & Petulantly applying Excessive Unnecessary Customs Checks, Disrupting internal UK Trade. Clear FACT established by Statistics. 20% ALL such EU Checks are between GB & NI. 

[robblok]

21 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

I was comparing the EU to a sulking teenage girl that had been dumped by her boyfriend. A perfectly reasonable analogy given their behaviour.

And i was taking a pot shot at the ancient thinking of Brexiteers linking it to the empire. You ultra conservative living in the past. Perfectly reasonable too.

[Chomper Higgot]

5 minutes ago, TropicalGuy said:

There are no downsides. UK well rid of Protectionist Federal Failed EU. UK Covid & Ukraine Response alone proves that.

 

EU IS Deliberately & Petulantly applying Excessive Unnecessary Customs Checks, Disrupting internal UK Trade. Clear FACT established by Statistics. 20% ALL such EU Checks are between GB & NI. 

Where are these checks taking place? Who’s making these checks?

 

Trade between the UK and NI is direct, it doesn’t go through EU territory.

[TropicalGuy]

7 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I’m not sure being ‘the smartest guy in the room’ is much of an accolade, given the ‘room’ is Johnson’s Government.

 

Are you missing the point that the NI unionist tail is wagging the Tory dog?

 

 

Unionists are understandably Politicking against Protocol & IRA but Bad EU responsible too.
 

Both Solved by dissolving (all) UK Devolved Parliaments & legally ditching NI Protocol. Let these disparate people argue in NI etc. local council & institution chambers not at national level. 

[TropicalGuy]

9 minutes ago, robblok said:

And i was taking a pot shot at the ancient thinking of Brexiteers linking it to the empire. You ultra conservative living in the past. Perfectly reasonable too.

This “concept” exists only in the minds of bitter EU -adoring Remainers ???????? Brexit about UK Independence not “ Empire”. 
As if EU is not an empire with super- state pretensions!!????????????

Edited June 10, 2022 by TropicalGuy

[Mavideol]

14 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Seems to be a tough and difficult choice to make .

Either stick with the E.U regulations and risk Northern Ireland leaving the U.K and joining Ireland , or ignoring the E.U regulations . 

  Once again, its the E.U interfering with the U.Ks sovereignty 

how is the EU interfering with anything, the guy has no face, never respected any of his agreements, he's always looking  to antagonize the EU, he made a BIG mistake leaving, lies and more lies will bring him down

[Mavideol]

14 hours ago, baboon said:

Always someone else's fault. Always.

you beat me to it 555