Jan. 6 committee says probe shows Trump led and directed effort to overturn 2020 election

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

Maga die hards aren't enough.

I didn't day he won't run.

He might.

But he won't be nominated.

Just so long as his worshipers keep sending him money.

[g man]

1 minute ago, ozimoron said:

You're deflecting from the point that the hearings have done tremendous damage to Trumps credibility and chances.

Of course they have, but unfortunately for some it's nowhere near enough, and should the lame J6 committee bloodies Trump nose, there won't be any criminal charges and well, Trump and MAGA will rise to the occasion as they always do.

Important to note that the dems are out of contention due to the current admins colossal failures and the lack of suitable candidate for president. So, Trump's credibility, chances could drop immensely and he'll still annihilate the likes of Biden.

 

Former President Trump has an early edge over President Biden in a hypothetical 2024 rematch, according to a new Emerson College poll.

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/3543735-trump-leads-biden-in-hypothetical-2024-matchup-poll/

 

More than 1 million voters switch to GOP in warning for Dems

https://apnews.com/article/2022-midterm-elections-biden-covid-health-presidential-e50db07385831e67f866ec45402be8b9

 

Believe it, Garland will bow out and this committee may soon get lambasted with some real sharp evidence and revelations that they don't want to discuss in their hearings. I can elaborate further in subsequent follow up but don't want to veer off topic.

[heybruce]

5 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Yes

 

Why indeed. 

 

We agree

 

Trump was not the government, nor am I. I think anyone not blinded by their ideology and  or their heat for Trump would see the context in which Trump attacked the press.  

 

I'm not arguing against a free press, I support it wholeheartedly. 

 

I asked "Why don't you provide some facts to support your claims above? " and your response is "Why indeed."  I assume that means you have no facts to support your claims:

 

"I know many of the stories presented as "fact" the media were refuted, but a large percentage of the citizenry still believe. "

 

and:

 

"Yes, but when 90% present something as true, and 10% show it to be false, and half the county never sees the 10%, it's not as "competitive" as it might be. "

 

In short, you believe Trump's "enemy of the people" claim without any evidence to support it.

 

Do you also believe his evidence free claim that the election was fixed?

 

Do you think Trump intentionally provoked the mob to attack the Capitol on January 6, or was he so stupid he didn't know what he was doing?  It has to be one or the other.

 

It is a fact that democracies don't survive without a critical free press.

 

It is a fact that you have not provided any evidence of the press failing to perform its functions of critically reporting events.

 

It is a fact that Trump, intentionally or through stupidity, provoked a mob into attacking the Capitol with the intention of preventing the legal certification of a legitimate election.

 

It is a reasonable, to the point of being unavoidable, conclusion that this makes Trump a threat to democracy in this country.

[heybruce]

1 minute ago, g man said:

Of course they have, but unfortunately for some it's nowhere near enough, and should the lame J6 committee bloodies Trump nose, there won't be any criminal charges and well, Trump and MAGA will rise to the occasion as they always do.

Important to note that the dems are out of contention due to the current admins colossal failures and the lack of suitable candidate for president. So, Trump's credibility, chances could drop immensely and he'll still annihilate the likes of Biden.

 

Former President Trump has an early edge over President Biden in a hypothetical 2024 rematch, according to a new Emerson College poll.

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/3543735-trump-leads-biden-in-hypothetical-2024-matchup-poll/

 

More than 1 million voters switch to GOP in warning for Dems

https://apnews.com/article/2022-midterm-elections-biden-covid-health-presidential-e50db07385831e67f866ec45402be8b9

 

Believe it, Garland will bow out and this committee may soon get lambasted with some real sharp evidence and revelations that they don't want to discuss in their hearings. I can elaborate further in subsequent follow up but don't want to veer off topic.

"..this committee may soon get lambasted with some real sharp evidence and revelations that they don't want to discuss in their hearings."

 

Did you get that from Qanon, or do you think Sidney Powell will finally "release the Kraken"?

[heybruce]

28 minutes ago, g man said:

Maybe you think it is so significant, and maybe many others don't but see it for what it is, complete with 3rd party he said / she said hearsay testimony with no chance to examine the witness. Why was the secret service not informed in advance of Hutchinson testimony and in addition only a moron solicits questionable hearsay testimony when the USSS Engle and Ornato could have provided first hand witness  account testimony of the events in the POTUS limo. We know the answer to that. Makes no sense and therefore anyone with a cortex can see thru the lame attempts to smear Trump. It's worse than a farce and AG Garland ain't gonna do squat. If he is, he best hurry because this committee will be escorted to the exits come January 2023. Imagine indicting a past president based on 3rd party uncorroborated testimony in a hearing that carries zero judicial authority. You are clearly not paying attention nor thinking this thru.

He best hurry, appoint a special counsel, appoint a prosecutor since AG Garland is conflicted, start the subpoena process and witness interviews and try to manage the 100's of legal challenges, but before you do that, a prima facia case of crimes needs to be articulated and so far nothing except some one sided stories produced for a television audience You better hurry and decide this real quick, before Trump declares his 2024 presidential intentions or this is all seen as another political witch hunt.

Trump doesn't need to be charged and convicted, though it would be nice.

 

As I've already noted, either Trump intentionally provoked a mob to violently storm the Capitol in order to prevent the legal certification of a legitimate election, or he did so stupidly.  I can think of no other explanation for his actions. 

 

Die hard Trump fans won't care that he is either a criminal or an idiot.  Hopefully a majority, large enough to overcome the undemocratic electoral advantage the Republicans have, will recognize that regardless of the explanation, Trump is unfit for office.

[candide]

51 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Yes, but when 90% present something as true, and 10% show it to be false, and half the county never sees the 10%, it's not as "competitive" as it might be.

I think you are confusing "show to be false" with "claim to be false". It's no wonder that 90% of media claim something is true when It's backed by facts. For example, it's no wonder 90% of media claimed Crowdstrike was not a Ukrainian company, that the big lie was a lie, etc...... (the full list would be too long).

Actually, the main issue is that some people only read/watch one type of media and so are not able to compare information from different sources.

[heybruce]

24 minutes ago, g man said:

Nothing wrong with DeSantis, either he or Trump will be the boss in 2025.

DeSantis is Trump minus the charisma but with more intelligence.  He has the same lack of ethics and abundance of contempt for democratic norms.

[Chomper Higgot]

28 minutes ago, g man said:

Nothing wrong with DeSantis, either he or Trump will be the boss in 2025.

And there lies the problem for both of them.

 

They’ll fight like cat and dog.

 

Divide and rule.

[ozimoron]

2 minutes ago, heybruce said:

DeSantis is Trump minus the charisma but with more intelligence.  He has the same lack of ethics and abundance of contempt for democratic norms.

Both totally self serving.

[g man]

3 minutes ago, heybruce said:

DeSantis is Trump minus the charisma but with more intelligence.  He has the same lack of ethics and abundance of contempt for democratic norms.

Both forgot more than Biden knows about just about anything.

[g man]

2 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

Both totally self serving.

Lol, what politician isn't? How's Joe doing?

Edited July 2, 2022 by g man

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, g man said:

Lol, what politician isn't? How's Joe doing?

Show me an example of even an allegation that Biden is grifting or has violated the emoluments act.

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/desantis-promotes-covid-drug-top-donor-invests-n1277049

[candide]

6 minutes ago, heybruce said:

Trump doesn't need to be charged and convicted, though it would be nice.

 

As I've already noted, either Trump intentionally provoked a mob to violently storm the Capitol in order to prevent the legal certification of a legitimate election, or he did so stupidly.  I can think of no other explanation for his actions. 

 

Die hard Trump fans won't care that he is either a criminal or an idiot.  Hopefully a majority, large enough to overcome the undemocratic electoral advantage the Republicans have, will recognize that regardless of the explanation, Trump is unfit for office.

There is another explanation: it was both intentionally provoked AND stupid! ????

[g man]

6 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

Show me an example of even an allegation that Biden is grifting or has violated the emoluments act.

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/desantis-promotes-covid-drug-top-donor-invests-n1277049

Nah, I won't bite on that as much as I would enjoy, nice try.

FYI: this is the theme.

Jan. 6 committee says probe shows Trump led and directed effort to overturn 2020 election

U need to try better deflection and obfuscation games than that

[candide]

1 hour ago, ozimoron said:

"Republicans are bracing for Donald J. Trump to announce an unusually early bid for the White House, a move designed in part to shield the former president from a stream of damaging revelations emerging from investigations into his attempts to cling to power after losing the 2020 election," The New York Times reported. "While many Republicans would welcome Mr. Trump’s entry into the race, his move would also exacerbate persistent divisions over whether the former president is the party’s best hope to win back the White House. The party is also divided over whether his candidacy would be an unnecessary distraction from midterm elections or even a direct threat to democracy."

 

https://www.rawstory.com/trump-2024-announcement/

It's going to be good! ????

Trump is so jealous that he will destroy the Republican party rather than let DeSantis take the lead.

[Captain Monday]

How this will play out is so obvious. For some little fish there WILL be convictions for serious crimes, in  continuation of existing prosecutions. The so-called Proud Boys who constituted Trumps' Fred Perry clad  brawling brown shirts, and then Popeye and his Oathkeepers. Those trained anti-government militants, and a few other minnows

 

In his absurd naiveté Garland will never bring serious charges against Trump or his closest aides as this would bring the whole  of  "US credibility" into question.  "For the good of the country" Trump will be let off suffering only stern rebukes from rival politicians. Nothing the deplorables ever listen to anyway to them it is all lies and a joke.   Unfortunately some fish are too big to fry.

 

The next president will be Trump or someone much much worse like DeSantis and the convicted insurrectionists all will be pardoned and released. One day Trump will expire in a soft bed a very rich man having never missed a meal or spent a moment in Jail. 

 

US democracy is already doomed.

Edited July 2, 2022 by Captain Monday

[ozimoron]

2 minutes ago, g man said:

Nah, I won't bite on that as much as I would enjoy, nice try.

FYI: this is the theme.

Jan. 6 committee says probe shows Trump led and directed effort to overturn 2020 election

U need to try better deflection and obfuscation games than that

You claimed Biden was self serving. Just another unsubstantiated throw away deflection?

[g man]

1 minute ago, candide said:

https://www.rawstory.com/trump-2024-announcement/

LOL,,,

• Overall, we rate Raw Story Left Biased based on story selection that favors the left and Mixed for factual reporting due to half-true, false, and unproven claims, as well as the promotion of mild pseudoscience misinformation.

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/raw-story/

 

[g man]

1 minute ago, ozimoron said:

You claimed Biden was self serving. Just another unsubstantiated throw away deflection?

He is worse than self serving.

 

Go play your silly games elsewhere.

[ozimoron]

2 minutes ago, g man said:

He is worse than self serving.

 

Go play your silly games elsewhere.

so put up? out of ammo beside personal attacks?

[ozimoron]

8 minutes ago, g man said:

LOL,,,

• Overall, we rate Raw Story Left Biased based on story selection that favors the left and Mixed for factual reporting due to half-true, false, and unproven claims, as well as the promotion of mild pseudoscience misinformation.

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/raw-story/

 

Ad Fontes Media rates Raw Story in the Skews Left category of bias and as Generally Reliable/Analysis OR Other Issues in terms of reliability.

 

https://adfontesmedia.com/raw-story-bias-and-reliability/

[candide]

1 hour ago, g man said:

Maybe you think it is so significant, and maybe many others don't but see it for what it is, complete with 3rd party he said / she said hearsay testimony with no chance to examine the witness. Why was the secret service not informed in advance of Hutchinson testimony and in addition only a moron solicits questionable hearsay testimony when the USSS Engle and Ornato could have provided first hand witness  account testimony of the events in the POTUS limo. We know the answer to that. Makes no sense and therefore anyone with a cortex can see thru the lame attempts to smear Trump. It's worse than a farce and AG Garland ain't gonna do squat. If he is, he best hurry because this committee will be escorted to the exits come January 2023. Imagine indicting a past president based on 3rd party uncorroborated testimony in a hearing that carries zero judicial authority. You are clearly not paying attention nor thinking this thru.

He best hurry, appoint a special counsel, appoint a prosecutor since AG Garland is conflicted, start the subpoena process and witness interviews and try to manage the 100's of legal challenges, but before you do that, a prima facia case of crimes needs to be articulated and so far nothing except some one sided stories produced for a television audience You better hurry and decide this real quick, before Trump declares his 2024 presidential intentions or this is all seen as another political witch hunt.

You are too impatient.

 

Haven't you noticed how these hearings have been expertly scenarized?

 

First, Trump's Republican aides testifying he had been warned that the Big Lie was effectively a lie. After that, Trump's Republican aides testifying how the plot was conceived and implemented (plus some written evidence). Then the unexpected Republican aide with her shock testimony. Followed by outcry and whining in the MAGA sphere, which actually directed public attention to some Jan. 6 events.

 

Haven't thought about what the next episode will be? The next session will be Cipollone (and maybe others) confirming under oath what Hutchinson already told under oath. It will also include FBI agents testimony that Trump eagerly wanted to go to the Capitol, where the mob was already assaulting the building (whether they confirm or not the steering wheel funny episode, is of minor importance).

Edited July 2, 2022 by candide

[Yellowtail]

45 minutes ago, heybruce said:

DeSantis is Trump minus the charisma but with more intelligence.  He has the same lack of ethics and abundance of contempt for democratic norms.

What democratic norms? 

[ozimoron]

2 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

What democratic norms? 

Here's a start.

 

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/05/06/politics/desantis-signs-florida-bill-voting-restrictions/index.html

[Yellowtail]

1 hour ago, heybruce said:

I asked "Why don't you provide some facts to support your claims above? " and your response is "Why indeed."  I assume that means you have no facts to support your claims:

 

"I know many of the stories presented as "fact" the media were refuted, but a large percentage of the citizenry still believe. "

 

and:

 

"Yes, but when 90% present something as true, and 10% show it to be false, and half the county never sees the 10%, it's not as "competitive" as it might be. "

 

In short, you believe Trump's "enemy of the people" claim without any evidence to support it.

 

Do you also believe his evidence free claim that the election was fixed?

 

Do you think Trump intentionally provoked the mob to attack the Capitol on January 6, or was he so stupid he didn't know what he was doing?  It has to be one or the other.

 

It is a fact that democracies don't survive without a critical free press.

 

It is a fact that you have not provided any evidence of the press failing to perform its functions of critically reporting events.

 

It is a fact that Trump, intentionally or through stupidity, provoked a mob into attacking the Capitol with the intention of preventing the legal certification of a legitimate election.

 

It is a reasonable, to the point of being unavoidable, conclusion that this makes Trump a threat to democracy in this country.

It's only reasonable to you, and others that share your ideology and or hate for Trump. 

 

It's not reasonable to me, and others that do not share your ideology and or hate for Trump. 

[Yellowtail]

4 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

Here's a start.

 

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/05/06/politics/desantis-signs-florida-bill-voting-restrictions/index.html

Is that all you have, really?

[ozimoron]

4 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Is that all you have, really?

I believe I said it was a start.

[Yellowtail]

12 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

I believe I said it was a start.

From your link: "In signing the bill during an appearance on "Fox & Friends," the Florida Republican highlighted provisions of the bill including stricter voter ID requirements for voting by mail, creating limits on who can pick up and return a voter's ballot, and banning private funding for elections."  s 

 

How does this show an "...abundance of contempt for democratic norms."?

 

 

 

[Hanaguma]

Kind of a no win scenario for Democrats.  If Trump skates (like he usually does) then they look petty and vindictive. There is a bruising fight for the GOP nomination. Trump may win and is elected again.

 

If Trump gets tarred enough, he doesn't run. Then the GOP can relax and dig into their deeeeeeeeep bench of young, energetic, and charismatic presidential hopefuls.  The Democrats are forced to reckon with the prospect of an 80 plus year old Biden trying to fend off his nimble and photogenic opponent. The GOP wins again. 

 

Or the Democrats dump Biden/convince him to not run again. Who do they have? Can you see Kamala Harris trying again to win the nomination. She got zero delegates last time and was  a proven lightweight. Who is left? Revenge of the Hillary- third time is the charm? Lost to Obama, lost to Trump, now lose again to the GOP. Not a great legacy for her at all. 

[ozimoron]

3 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

From your link: "In signing the bill during an appearance on "Fox & Friends," the Florida Republican highlighted provisions of the bill including stricter voter ID requirements for voting by mail, creating limits on who can pick up and return a voter's ballot, and banning private funding for elections."  s 

 

How does this show an "...abundance of contempt for democratic norms."?

Those rights have been inherent in US elections for decades. Dismantling them is contempt for democracy. It is well established and incontrovertible that voting restrictions reduce voter turnout among the poorest.