LTR Visa is Now available for Long Term Residency

[Pib]

On 1/15/2023 at 10:47 AM, Misty said:

Another update from the BoI LTR unit call Friday:

 

Health insurance requirement:  some changes have been made, including that US Tricare coverage for retired military is now accepted. Also, health policies that otherwise meet the requirement and are "guaranteed renewable," but that may renew annually at a date that is less than 10 months from the LTR application date, will also be accepted

 

 

 

 

 

On 1/15/2023 at 11:29 AM, Pib said:

Well that's great news about Tricare. 

 

However, they did not accept my application using Tricare in late Nov 2022.  I had to self insure.  But when I asked in mid Oct 2022 before submitting my application they said Tricare is accepted but as mentioned they did not accept it when I actually applied in Oct. 

 

I do hope that BOI has indeed had a change of heart about Tricare "and similar type of US govt sponsored insurance policies that provide worldwide coverage and do not have an end date/are basically open ended.   That is, as long as you are still breathing and paying any required monthly premium the policy remains in force...is basically on autopilot till death due you part.

 

This LTR insurance policy change will make it easier for more retired military/government American retirees to meet the LTR medical coverage requirement.

 

 

 

On 1/16/2023 at 5:18 PM, Pib said:

 

Update: I contacted BoI via their online contact form asking about the info in Misty's post regarding Tricare and similar type U.S. govt sponsored policies.   I got a quick response  shown below.  Now the response only mentioned Tricare vs also saying similar type U.S. govt sponsored coverage like I know a lot of U.S. govt or U.N. retirees have opened ended type medical coverage policies (i..e, no end date) sponsored by the government agency they retired from and the coverage is through a civilian insurance company.   That opened ended coverage basically renews automatically....and I think in those types of polices the members receive some type of policy coverage sheet/letter that closely resembles what a standard civilian insurance policy reflects with the exception of a end date.  Anyway, here is BoI's response.

 

Sure wish Tricare had been acceptable in Oct/Nov 2022 when I applied.  Now as I mentioned in a much earlier post in this thread BoI didn't flat-out reject my Tricare by saying such in an LTR online notification or email; it's just my application Status changed to "Request for Additional Docs" one day and in the area of the application/Docs Upload area there was just a comment which basically saying a Heath insurance policy with at least 10 months remaining OR Thailand social security coverage OR self insure is required.   To me that was a nice way of saying "No, your submitted Tricare docs are not good enough, so please submit one of above type docs.  And that is when I went the self insure route.

 

But unfortunately, as I have Tricare as a military retiree of many years, I do not know what document they are talking about which shows the Tricare insurance will renew annually.   The only document I'm aware of you can get saying you are enrolled in Tricare is a one page benefits letter you can download from the military "DEERS" system which stands for Defense Eligibility Enrollment Reporting System if you have a milConnect online acct.  I guess a person could also get the letter maybe by contacting DEERS via phone or in person, but I got mine by going online. 

 

This DEERS benefits letter is very generic in nature (snapshot below), lists your name and enrollment date up to six years earlier, but no where does it talk the coverage will renew itself annually.  A typical military type benefits letter that uses very generic wording.   See snapshot at bottom.

 

HOWEVER, there are variations of Tricare....such as Tricare for Life,  Tricare Prime, Tricare Select/Overseas, etc., which is meant for different groups of military active and reserve duty, retirees, etc.  "And there are several Tricare contractors involved in managing the worldwide Tricare program"...like a couple different contractors for people living in the U.S., a contractor for those living overseas, etc., and that is the contractor each enrollee will deal with when arranging medical care and filing a claim. There is "not" just one Tricare contractor the millions of Tricare enrollees worldwide will deal. See a list of the various contractor and partners at this Tricare weblink:  https://www.tricare.mil/About/Partners

 

The contractor that enrollees who live outside the U.S. and/or have Tricare for Life would probably deal with the WPS contractor based in Wisconsin who I think is a subcontractor to the SOS contractor.  And if you log onto your WPS online acct, which is basically just for filing a claim,  there is no such benefit letter available....I've been using the WPS claims portal for many years.     BUT MAYBE, other Tricare contractors on their websites do offer some type of coverage/benefits coverage letter that does talk auto renewal.  I plan to call WPS in the near future to ask abut such a letter, but I will be surprised to no end if there is such a letter they can provide saying I'm enrolled in Tricare for Life/Overseas and it automatically renews annually.  

 

More research to do I guess....maybe even go visa BoI in the near future  see if they would show me a redacted version of the letter they are talking about....the type of letter they are satisfied with.   I'm sure there are many military retirees with Tricare coverage monitoring this thread.  So, if you know what Tricare coverage letter BoI is referring to that says your Tricare coverage renews annually (versus some general info Tricare website/booklet that talks such) then please share that info.  It may boil down to some of the Tricare contractors might provide a coverage letter that provides the info BoI is looking for....a letter totally unrelated to the generic DEERS benefit letter.  I sure hope this don't end up being a situation where only those Tricare enrollees with certain contactors can get the type of letter BoI is looking for.  

 

Example of Tricare Benefits letter available from "DEERS"

 

 

A few days ago I went to BoI to ask face-to-face if Tricare and similar type U.S. govt insurance policies "now" met BoI requirements for an LTR visa based on recent social media crossfeed regarding the LTR visa.  And the answer was Yes.   

 

I mentioned that in mid Oct I had initially been told via LTR Contact form reply that Tricare was acceptable, but during late Oct and thru Nov when my LTR application was processing my Tricare was not accepted so I self-insured instead.    And there was also social media crossfeed of some applicants who had similar U.S./U.N. sponsored health care coverage which is open-ended (i.e, no end date shown on policy statement) that most applicants were being rejected and but some accepted....but it seemed like the most recent applicants were now seeing a much higher acceptance rate....like BoI had become more flexible regarding insurance policy coverage for Tricare/U.S. govt type polices. 

 

The BoI rep said during Oct-Nov there was not total agreement within BoI and some other coordinating agencies if Tricare and similar type of U.S. govt sponsored polices were indeed acceptable and useable in Thailand,  but apparently that has now been resolved and the coverage considered acceptable as such policies do indeed provide excellent worldwide coverage.    BoI and other coordinating govt agencies are now aware such policies may not have a policy statement sheet that reflects a specific annual end date like a typical civilian insurance policy. 

 

For these type of polices which don't have a firm annual end date (example: 1 Jan-31 Dec 2022 coverage) but basically just show you are indeed enrolled and don't have to take any action to continue your enrollment year-to-year they prefer the policy/benefits letter has a statement somewhere that no action is required to continue annual enrollment.  

 

However, I stressed medical coverage like "Tricare Overseas/Select, Tricare for Life, etc.," don't require annual reenrollment as it's automatic, doesn't have an end date, and doesn't have any statement on the Tricare Benefits Letter saying year-to-year enrollment is automatic.  And as far as I know from my personal experience of being enrolled in Tricare Overseas/Tricare for Life for many years a person does not get an enrollment card, Tricare does not come with a civilian policy type coverage statement/sheet, etc.; instead all you can get is the Tricare Benefits Letter I posted an example of above which just basically confirms you are enrolled in one of the various Tricare programs...and it will also show how long you been enrolled up to a maximum of 6 years in the past.  

 

Since this was the only Tricare letter I'm aware a person in Tricare Overseas/Tricare for Life can get from the Dept of Defense I wanted to confirm if it's adequate evidence of having Tricare.  The rep said it should be but he would ask his supervisor.  He then took the letter to his BoI supervisor and a few minutes later came back and confirmed the Tricare Benefits Letter provides adequate evidence.

 

So, hopefully, Tricare and similar type U.S./U.N. sponsored polices with no end date are now indeed acceptable as first reported by Misty from that BoI and American Chamber of Commerce conference call.   A good step forwarded...this should make it a lot easier for military and other govt retirees to meet the LTR medical coverage requirement based purely on their coverage versus having to resort to self-insuring (if possible).

 

Time will tell.  Hopefully we will soon have some folks post that their opened end Tricare/U.S./U.N. sponsored medical coverage satisfied the LTR requirement....and hopefully they will mention what "document(s)" provided the evidence....like maybe that Tricare Benefits Letter example I posted above.  

[paddypower]

On 7/9/2022 at 12:57 PM, jensmann said:

If I have a million dollar back home, I wouldn't be here. Simple...

Great song, that (Bare Naked Ladies). ????

[K2938]

7 hours ago, Karma80 said:

Yes, but how many of these are just existing retirement visas converted? Seems to make up most of this thread contribution. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but it's not really much benefit to the country.

If I remember correctly, previous numbers disclosed indicated more than half were conversions. 

As the number of people eligible for a conversion is limited and many of those who can have already done so, their relative share is however likely to decline.  And with this the number of overall applications will most likely also further slow down.

 

Edited January 20, 2023 by K2938

[Boomer6969]

14 hours ago, Pib said:

 

 

 

A few days ago I went to BoI to ask face-to-face if Tricare and similar type U.S. govt insurance policies "now" met BoI requirements for an LTR visa based on recent social media crossfeed regarding the LTR visa.  And the answer was Yes.   

 

I mentioned that in mid Oct I had initially been told via LTR Contact form reply that Tricare was acceptable, but during late Oct and thru Nov when my LTR application was processing my Tricare was not accepted so I self-insured instead.    And there was also social media crossfeed of some applicants who had similar U.S./U.N. sponsored health care coverage which is open-ended (i.e, no end date shown on policy statement) that most applicants were being rejected and but some accepted....but it seemed like the most recent applicants were now seeing a much higher acceptance rate....like BoI had become more flexible regarding insurance policy coverage for Tricare/U.S. govt type polices. 

 

The BoI rep said during Oct-Nov there was not total agreement within BoI and some other coordinating agencies if Tricare and similar type of U.S. govt sponsored polices were indeed acceptable and useable in Thailand,  but apparently that has now been resolved and the coverage considered acceptable as such policies do indeed provide excellent worldwide coverage.    BoI and other coordinating govt agencies are now aware such policies may not have a policy statement sheet that reflects a specific annual end date like a typical civilian insurance policy. 

 

For these type of polices which don't have a firm annual end date (example: 1 Jan-31 Dec 2022 coverage) but basically just show you are indeed enrolled and don't have to take any action to continue your enrollment year-to-year they prefer the policy/benefits letter has a statement somewhere that no action is required to continue annual enrollment.  

 

However, I stressed medical coverage like "Tricare Overseas/Select, Tricare for Life, etc.," don't require annual reenrollment as it's automatic, doesn't have an end date, and doesn't have any statement on the Tricare Benefits Letter saying year-to-year enrollment is automatic.  And as far as I know from my personal experience of being enrolled in Tricare Overseas/Tricare for Life for many years a person does not get an enrollment card, Tricare does not come with a civilian policy type coverage statement/sheet, etc.; instead all you can get is the Tricare Benefits Letter I posted an example of above which just basically confirms you are enrolled in one of the various Tricare programs...and it will also show how long you been enrolled up to a maximum of 6 years in the past.  

 

Since this was the only Tricare letter I'm aware a person in Tricare Overseas/Tricare for Life can get from the Dept of Defense I wanted to confirm if it's adequate evidence of having Tricare.  The rep said it should be but he would ask his supervisor.  He then took the letter to his BoI supervisor and a few minutes later came back and confirmed the Tricare Benefits Letter provides adequate evidence.

 

So, hopefully, Tricare and similar type U.S./U.N. sponsored polices with no end date are now indeed acceptable as first reported by Misty from that BoI and American Chamber of Commerce conference call.   A good step forwarded...this should make it a lot easier for military and other govt retirees to meet the LTR medical coverage requirement based purely on their coverage versus having to resort to self-insuring (if possible).

 

Time will tell.  Hopefully we will soon have some folks post that their opened end Tricare/U.S./U.N. sponsored medical coverage satisfied the LTR requirement....and hopefully they will mention what "document(s)" provided the evidence....like maybe that Tricare Benefits Letter example I posted above.  

Somehow these shifts and adjustments lead me  to think the IQ scores at BOI must be 20 points higher than those of TI.

[Oorinara]

17% Personal Income Tax (PIT) for High Skilled Pro (HSP)

 

Decree 743/2022 says 17% PIT on “assessable” income

https://ltr.boi.go.th/documents/Royal-Decree-743.pdf
 

In turn, generally progressive tax rates applicable to “taxable” income.

”Taxable” income = “Assessable” income - deductions - allowances (such as eligible insurance premium, Retirement Mutual Fund and Provident Fund)

https://www.rd.go.th/english/6045.html

 

Wondering if anyone knows 17% PIT for HSP on “assessable” or “taxable” income. Many thanks! 

[Rimmer]

A post discussing moderation has been removed also a post using Russian text, this is an English language forum.

 

Please abide by the forum rules that you agreed to when you signed up, the  forum rules are  HERE

 

3. English is the only permitted language anywhere on ASEAN NOW, except within the Thai language forum, where using Thai is allowed.

 

[MicroB]

I was advised to check this topic, but having searched it,Thailand, but if a company doesn't knw  it seems my question has not been raised before. For those working from Thailand, for a non-Thai entity, how has the question of Permanent Establishment been dealt with.

 

I work for a UK Plc, in the financial sector. Based on company revenue, my salary and my qualifications, I seem to qualify for this LTR visa. My employer is in multiple different industries, and in 2020 purchased a UK company concerned with the automotive sector, which came with a significant Bangkok business that is now 49% owned by my employer. However, its not a part of the company I work with or ever work with (I work in the healthcare sector).

 

While Permanent Establishment does have a UN definition, it seems countries have their own view. Essentially it considers if a company is subject to Corporation Tax because it has established some sort of presence in that country that is to do with deriving revenue from that country. Thai corporation tax is 20% of revenues earned from business with Thailand. If the comapany doesn't know how much revenue it gets from Thailand, corporation tax is 5% of total revenues (I think), which would amount to about £10 million a year to the Thai finance ministry. If that happened, I don't think I will be doing the move. Also, it will cost the company a significant amount of effort/expenditure to figure which Thai incomes are not currently taxed according to Thai law, which are subject to tax treaty etc..

 

BUT PE isn't an issue if the presence in country is not "directly" related to revenue generation. ie. If I was in sales, doing deals with Thai clients, or if I was involved in contract agreements (signing off contracts), I would be considered establishing a PE. However, my role is Director of Research, within out healthcare entity; essentially I direct the creation of content that the sales people go out and sell. Nothing I do is specific to Thailand, but I do know Thai entities do purchase our healthcare data. At least, this is how I understand it.

 

So, does the fact the company already has a subsidiary in Thailand, albeit at some distance from the work I do, mean nothing changes for the company's status if I choose to move to Thailand?

 

I would add this is something I want to do for personal reasons, not because my company wants to relocate me. The company has recently introduced new working policies, which includes a conditional approval to work in places other than my home country. So far, within the company, I know of one employee who chose to work in Poland, but was put on Polish wages, another who relocated from Canada to Japan, and who was retained on Canadian wages, some who have gone from UK to New York and San Francisco, and are pretty much on the same salary deal as London. In theory, I could be put on Thai wages, and still be UK taxed (but I suspect if it came to it, they'd agree to maintain a UK level salary).

Edited January 25, 2023 by MicroB

[Pib]

MicroB,

   The answer to your question if far beyond the knowledge within my pea brain, but the Double Tax Agreement (DTA) between Thailand and the UK may offer some info.   The DTA is located at below Thailand Revenue Department webpage...Section 5 of the DTA deals with Permanent Establishment.

 

https://www.rd.go.th/english/770.html

 

 

[K2938]

3 hours ago, MicroB said:

I was advised to check this topic, but having searched it,Thailand, but if a company doesn't knw  it seems my question has not been raised before. For those working from Thailand, for a non-Thai entity, how has the question of Permanent Establishment been dealt with.

 

I work for a UK Plc, in the financial sector. Based on company revenue, my salary and my qualifications, I seem to qualify for this LTR visa. My employer is in multiple different industries, and in 2020 purchased a UK company concerned with the automotive sector, which came with a significant Bangkok business that is now 49% owned by my employer. However, its not a part of the company I work with or ever work with (I work in the healthcare sector).

 

While Permanent Establishment does have a UN definition, it seems countries have their own view. Essentially it considers if a company is subject to Corporation Tax because it has established some sort of presence in that country that is to do with deriving revenue from that country. Thai corporation tax is 20% of revenues earned from business with Thailand. If the comapany doesn't know how much revenue it gets from Thailand, corporation tax is 5% of total revenues (I think), which would amount to about £10 million a year to the Thai finance ministry. If that happened, I don't think I will be doing the move. Also, it will cost the company a significant amount of effort/expenditure to figure which Thai incomes are not currently taxed according to Thai law, which are subject to tax treaty etc..

 

BUT PE isn't an issue if the presence in country is not "directly" related to revenue generation. ie. If I was in sales, doing deals with Thai clients, or if I was involved in contract agreements (signing off contracts), I would be considered establishing a PE. However, my role is Director of Research, within out healthcare entity; essentially I direct the creation of content that the sales people go out and sell. Nothing I do is specific to Thailand, but I do know Thai entities do purchase our healthcare data. At least, this is how I understand it.

 

So, does the fact the company already has a subsidiary in Thailand, albeit at some distance from the work I do, mean nothing changes for the company's status if I choose to move to Thailand?

 

I would add this is something I want to do for personal reasons, not because my company wants to relocate me. The company has recently introduced new working policies, which includes a conditional approval to work in places other than my home country. So far, within the company, I know of one employee who chose to work in Poland, but was put on Polish wages, another who relocated from Canada to Japan, and who was retained on Canadian wages, some who have gone from UK to New York and San Francisco, and are pretty much on the same salary deal as London. In theory, I could be put on Thai wages, and still be UK taxed (but I suspect if it came to it, they'd agree to maintain a UK level salary).

1) You need to get some professional tax advice, ideally from one of the Big 4.  And this includes both Thai and UK tax consequences.
2) If I remember correctly, somebody else above also had a related query on this, so you might want to link up with that person. 

3) My gut feel when reading through some of the questions also posed above by other people is that nobody has really thought through all the tax issues here.  So you are bound to risk getting some nasty surprises if you do not investigate in advance.  And asking the BOI is probably not really going to help you very much either because while they are nice and polite, what they say might not necessarily be true.
4) You might want to check before all this if your company really will maintain your UK level salary because you certainly would not want to make this move on a Thai salary (and would also hardly qualify for the LTR visa with such a Thai salary).

Edited January 25, 2023 by K2938

[Pib]

2 hours ago, Pib said:

MicroB,

   The answer to your question if far beyond the knowledge within my pea brain, but the Double Tax Agreement (DTA) between Thailand and the UK may offer some info.   The DTA is located at below Thailand Revenue Department webpage...Section 5 of the DTA deals with Permanent Establishment.

 

https://www.rd.go.th/english/770.html

 

 

MicroB

I'll just add that after reading Section 5, Para 5 (quoted below) of the Thailand-UK DTA "and" how you described your duties/responsibilities I do not think you working from Thailand would be considered establishing a Permanent Establishment since your duties/responsibilities do not include the authority to conclude contracts on behalf of your company.......you do not maintain a stock of goods to fill orders.....and you do not secure orders.   

 

But ultimately it's your company that must make the decision if you working from Thailand with an LTR visa somehow creates a new/additional tax burden for your company.

 

Quote

 

5          A person acting in a Contracting State on behalf of an enterprise of  the other Contracting State-other than a broker, general commission agent or any other agent of an independent status  to  whom  paragraph (6) applies-shall be deemed to be a permanent establishment in the first-mentioned State, but only if:

            (a)        he has and habitually exercises in the first- mentioned State,

                         an authority to conclude contracts on behalf of the enterprise,

                         unless his activities are limited to the purchase of goods or

                         merchandise for the enterprise; or

            (b)        he habitually maintains in the first-mentioned State a  stock

                         of goods or merchandise belonging to the enterprise from

                         which he regularly fills orders or makes deliveries on behalf

                         of the enterprise; or

            (c)        he habitually secures orders for the sale of goods or

                         merchandise  in  the  first-mentioned  State exclusively or

                         almost exclusively on behalf of the enterprise itself of or on

                         behalf of the enterprise and other enterprises controlled by it

                        or which have a controlling interest in it.  

 

 

Edited January 25, 2023 by Pib

[MicroB]

I think the Permanent Establishment issue kills this. If anything, it limits what I can do for the company.

 

The Company is not going to look into it and is putting all responsibilities for costs, including taxation, on me. As you point out, a lot of people aren't thinking this through clearly.

Edited January 25, 2023 by MicroB

[eddyod]

Has anyone gone from a Non-O visa to one of these successfully? I'm already in Thailand with a Non-O that will expire in late March and would like to get one of these.

 

Thanks

[Pib]

45 minutes ago, eddyod said:

Has anyone gone from a Non-O visa to one of these successfully? I'm already in Thailand with a Non-O that will expire in late March and would like to get one of these.

 

Thanks

It dosen't matter what type of visa you are on or even if you don't have a visa.   I'm sure quite a few of the people who received an LTR visa were on  Non O visa/extension of stay.

 

If you have a visa once you are approved for an LTR visa your other visa (or extension of stay based on a years old Non O, Non OA, etc) will be cancelled once you take the final step in the LTR process were you pay the Bt50K fee.  You have 60 days to take the final step after you receive the LTR endorseme approval notice from BOI.  If you don't take that final step then the LTR approval expires and you must start all over.

 

Like for me when I took the final LTR visa step the BOi Immigration cancelled my old Non OA with current marriage extension of stay while issuing me the new LTR pensioner visa.  Kinda like a combo action

 

[K2938]

1 hour ago, eddyod said:

Has anyone gone from a Non-O visa to one of these successfully? I'm already in Thailand with a Non-O that will expire in late March and would like to get one of these.

 

Thanks

If your Non-O is expiring in late March and you want to go down the LTR route, then it would be most urgent time to apply .  The 20 working days processing time mentioned by the BOI is largely a myth and even if you apply right now, you might run into timing problems.

[Misty]

1 hour ago, eddyod said:

Has anyone gone from a Non-O visa to one of these successfully? I'm already in Thailand with a Non-O that will expire in late March and would like to get one of these.

 

Thanks

As @K2938 mentions, applying sooner is better.  A couple of things to note:  the BoI LTR unit takes about 20 days for their approval.  However, applications still have to coordinate with other Thai agencies, for example Immigration and maybe Labour (if a work permit is involved).  Immigration in particular can apparently take its own sweet time.  That said, if your current visa is getting close to the expiration the BoI LTR unit will work to make sure the visa is done in time. 

 

The only issue is that you may need to get the LTR unit's attention at that point.  Just trying to email or call them may not be enough.  So if you apply today, and find you're still waiting final approval by mid-March, my suggestion would be to go to the LTR unit in person with your documents. From observation, they work very hard to resolve any outstanding issues at that point.  The LTR unit staff are the good guys and as some have suggested to me, the BoI itself has "magical powers."

[Pib]

Below BOI LTR webpage shows the LTR visa approval timeframe.....it's pretty detailed in identifying how long a person's application could take in the various steps of approval.   But when the real world dust settles in seems most applications will take one to two calendar months.....one month if the BOI is satisfied with all docs provided in your application.....two months if the request additional docs later on.   A few get approved in a little under a month.

 

The step that usually takes the longest is Step 3 (see snapshot below) where the BOI must obtain coordination with five other govt agencies like Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Immigration Bureau, etc., but it's the BOI that does its best to ensure you meet the requirements and have provided all the necessary docs before the package is forwarded to the other agencies for coordination.   

 

The BOI is the key agency to please as they are the Office of Primary Responsibility for the LTR visa, but they still must ensure coordinating offices like Immigration are happy with your application also.   It's the BOI and "not" Immigration that is the primary office in determining if your documents meet requirements.  It different than the application process for a standard visa such as a Non O, Non OA, etc., where the Ministry of Foreign Affairs or Immigration are the primary offices reviewing/approving your visa/extension of stay application. 

 

And keep in mind if BOI requests Additional Docs that can slow down/reset the clock to reaching the 20 working days approval goal the BOI advertises.  And it seems the request for additional docs is commonly related to meeting the medical insurance requirement and income   So, be sure to provide the best/fullest documentation possible. 

 

As Misty said if you located in Thailand and in a time crunch to get the LTR visa because you current visa expiring soo,, well, phone calls and emails to BOI in trying to speed-up your application may not help much although the BOI reps will be very polite and professional on the phone.  You may get better results if you visit BOI with a puppy dog eye expression to plead accelerated processing of your application.  Now that will not prevent you from needing to meet all requirements and provide necessary docs but it may help your application processing date from possibly being reset to zero/being put back on the bottom of the pile in those cases where additional docs were requested. 

 

See LTR Application Steps/Timeline at this BOI webpage

https://ltr.boi.go.th/page/application-timeline.html

 

 

The key, longest step

 

 

[Karma80]

On 1/25/2023 at 10:22 PM, MicroB said:

I think the Permanent Establishment issue kills this. If anything, it limits what I can do for the company.

 

The Company is not going to look into it and is putting all responsibilities for costs, including taxation, on me. As you point out, a lot of people aren't thinking this through clearly.

I took professional expat tax accountant advice, and agree that people are seeing what they want, rather than an unpleasant reality.

 

I would be performing work in Thailand, albeit for an overseas company. The LTR personally allows for a tax exemption, but in no way addresses the broader issue of creating a PE, which may or may not be captured conclusively under the relevant DTA. The Thailand Revenue Department has not issued any regulations and exemptions from taxation for foreign employers with staff working in Thailand under a work-from-Thailand professional visa. 

 

The visa in relation to remote workers can leave people and their employers in a very precarious position and ill-thought-out.

 

I think it wildly misses the mark. A person capable of remote work and already outside their employer's home economy is likely already a contractor through their own corporate entity to facilitate cross-border employment, and unable to meet the financial requirements of the LTR

 

It would only be a very unique subset of people that could avail themselves of this visa without significant tax risk to the company or themselves. And I, for one, have no intention of being that crash test dummy.

[Pib]

1 hour ago, Karma80 said:

I would be performing work in Thailand, albeit for an overseas company. The LTR personally allows for a tax exemption, but in no way addresses the broader issue of creating a PE, which may or may not be captured conclusively under the relevant DTA. The Thailand Revenue Department has not issued any regulations and exemptions from taxation for foreign employers with staff working in Thailand under a work-from-Thailand professional visa. 

 

There are a coupe of Thai Revenue  Code/Dept Laws & notices posted on the LTR website in English and Thai...specifically attachments 8 thru 11 as circled in below snapshot.   Don't know if they may help clarify things.

 

https://ltr.boi.go.th/page/laws-regulations.html

 

 

[MicroB]

16 minutes ago, Pib said:

There are a coupe of Thai Revenue  Code/Dept Laws & notices posted on the LTR website in English and Thai...specifically attachments 8 thru 11 as circled in below snapshot.   Don't know if they may help clarify things.

 

https://ltr.boi.go.th/page/laws-regulations.html

 

 

For me the personal income tax issue was already pretty clear. The more important issue was Permanent Establishment; whether me moving to Thailand would have a significant impact on the financials and costs to my employer, the company.

 

 

A poster was supposedly told verbally by BOI that there was a PE exemption, but no documentary proof has been provided to date.

 

See:

 

[Pib]

From a related LTR thread regarding Permanent Establishment.  

 

[eddyod]

I have a question about notarizing the documents. I am already living in Thailand so that means getting notarizations from the US embassy, which is a bit of a farce. The US embassy doesn't really notarize anything, they just notarize a 'template' they give you where you can write anything as long as it doesn't mention an 'attachment'. I would be applying for the highly skilled govt professional and they mention wanting a notarized university certificate and a notarized letter from the research institution I work for.  Has anyone gotten anything notarized from the US embassy for the LTR?

 

Thanks!

[oldcpu]

A question on the Annual Reporting requirements of the Long Term Visa (LTR).

 

I understanding that nominally LTR visa holders and followers (spouse and children) must report the status of their residence with the associated government agency (ie BoI in Bangkok), annually.   Is this also true if one is in/out of Thailand a few times per year?

 

ie.  does the counter for one's 1-year annual report restart if one goes out/in of Thailand?  

 

My guess is (unlike Type-O/OA non-immigration Visas) , for the LTR one still must report after one year, even if one goes out/in Thailand, past Thai immigration a few times during that year, and those occasions passing immigration don't count to restart the 1-year counter.  ie One must still report every year to BoI (?) in Bangkok  ... but I wanted to be certain I understood that correctly.

Edited January 30, 2023 by oldcpu

[ThailandRyan]

30 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

A question on the Annual Reporting requirements of the Long Term Visa (LTR).

 

I understanding that nominally LTR visa holders and followers (spouse and children) must report the status of their residence with the associated government agency (ie BoI in Bangkok), annually.   Is this also true if one is in/out of Thailand a few times per year?

 

ie.  does the counter for one's 1-year annual report restart if one goes out/in of Thailand?  

 

My guess is (unlike Type-O/OA non-immigration Visas) , for the LTR one still must report after one year, even if one goes out/in Thailand, past Thai immigration a few times during that year, and those occasions passing immigration don't count to restart the 1-year counter.  ie One must still report every year to BoI (?) in Bangkok  ... but I wanted to be certain I understood that correctly.

From what I was told if I left the country just prior to my 1 year then returned the clock would reset and a new 1 year time frame would start, this was told to me on the day the inserted my LTR Visa back in October by the BOI LTR staff.

 

As i said I obtained my LTR in October, I then left for a trip to the Philippines in November, and upon my return was stamped back in with the same ending date as the initial 5 year stamp. I called BOI just to enguire again and was told my 1 year report then restarted with my new arrival date. Just like your 90 days restart when on an extension of stay and using a re-entry permit, which the LTR Visa includes.

[Misty]

2 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

From what I was told if I left the country just prior to my 1 year then returned the clock would reset and a new 1 year time frame would start, this was told to me on the day the inserted my LTR Visa back in October by the BOI LTR staff.

 

As i said I obtained my LTR in October, I then left for a trip to the Philippines in November, and upon my return was stamped back in with the same ending date as the initial 5 year stamp. I called BOI just to enguire again and was told my 1 year report then restarted with my new arrival date. Just like your 90 days restart when on an extension of stay and using a re-entry permit, which the LTR Visa includes.

Yes, the LTR folks have told me the same thing in person as well as said this is how it works during online seminars. That is, the clock on the 1 year report works like the 90 day report - it restarts when you re-enter the country.

[Misty]

4 hours ago, eddyod said:

I have a question about notarizing the documents. I am already living in Thailand so that means getting notarizations from the US embassy, which is a bit of a farce. The US embassy doesn't really notarize anything, they just notarize a 'template' they give you where you can write anything as long as it doesn't mention an 'attachment'. I would be applying for the highly skilled govt professional and they mention wanting a notarized university certificate and a notarized letter from the research institution I work for.  Has anyone gotten anything notarized from the US embassy for the LTR?

 

Thanks!

I prepared a number of cover sheets for the US embassy to notarize for university diplomas and professional certificates a couple of years back when I had prepared a PR application.  I imagine the wording used could work for an LTR application as well.  The notarized statements didn't say much, just:

 

I (full name) do hereby swear that I graduated from (university name) at (location) on (graduation date) with a (name of degree). 

 

This cover sheet accompanied a photo copy of my diploma.

 

[mudcat]

Has anyone received from BOI the allowable methods of >1-year in the Kingdom notification?  Other 1-year reports allow mail in and the Royal Gazette states any IO can accept the  notification.

Sorry if I missed it, somewhere in the 57-pages.

 

[Pib]

I expect once BoI gets around to providing 1 year address reporting info on the LTR visa website that it will probably pretty much mirror the SMART visa website which allows 1 year address reporting two ways at the BoI One Stop Service Center: 

(1) in person (or authorized representative)

(2) by mail.

 

See Para 4.1 at below BOI SMART visa webpage.  This webpage also mentions the 1 year reporting resets every time you reenter Thailand....so, if a person exits/reenters Thailand once a year they would never have to do an in-person or by mail report.

https://smart-visa.boi.go.th/smart/pages/how-to-manage.html

 

Hopefully the LTR website will be updated/expanded over the next 6 months or so to provide a lot more info....like the lot more info on the SMART Visa website.

 

 

[OneZero]

On 1/16/2023 at 5:18 PM, Pib said:

 

Update: I contacted BoI via their online contact form asking about the info in Misty's post regarding Tricare ...........But unfortunately, as I have Tricare as a military retiree of many years, I do not know what document they are talking about which shows the Tricare insurance will renew annually.   The only document I'm aware of you can get saying you are enrolled in Tricare is a one page benefits letter you can download from the military "DEERS" system which stands for Defense Eligibility Enrollment Reporting System if you have a milConnect online acct.  

 

More research to do I guess....maybe even go visa BoI in the near future  see if they would show me a redacted version of the letter they are talking about....the type of letter they are satisfied with.   I'm sure there are many military retirees with Tricare coverage monitoring this thread.  So, if you know what Tricare coverage letter BoI is referring to that says your Tricare coverage renews annually (versus some general info Tricare website/booklet that talks such) then please share that info. 

 

Pib,

Thank you for your research & comments ref TRICARE.  I will apply for LTR (Wealthy Pensioner) & 

am assembling documentation.  My only concern about that is satisfying proof for my TRICARE coverage.  If & when the TRICARE issue firms up, I will be eager to hear about it.

 

To compound the TRICARE proof issue for me: I can't even get the one-page DEERS letter you referenced, because I can't get into a DS logon milconnect account I thought I had established years ago. 

 

However, at https://mypay.dfas.mil military retirees are able to download a 1095B proving (to IRS & anybody else concerned) that DOD did indeed sponsor medical coverage for the Prior Year (But not the current year). Wish I knew if that will be acceptable to BOI because it is all I have at the moment.

2022 Form 1095-B (irs.gov)

 

 

 

 

 

 

[OneZero]

The https://mypay.dfas.mil site will also provide a current year letter for military pay to include the statement as follows: ...."normally payable during his/her lifetime."  Unfortunately there is no similar TRICARE letter.

 

Perhaps if BOI were "Educated" they would accept the current year military pay letter as evidence that a military retirees TRICARE benefit would also tag right along with the military pay "during his/her lifetime".
 

Edited DFAS Verify Pay CY2023.pdf

[OneZero]

DEFENSE FINANCE AND ACCOUNTING SERVICE
Retired and Annuitant Pay 8899 E 56th Street - Retired Pay
Indianapolis, IN 46249-1200 https://www.dfas.mil/RetiredMilitary/

January 29, 2023

 

NAME & ADDRESS OF SUBJECT INDIVIDUAL

 

TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN:

Reference is made to your request for certification regarding receipt of Military pay in the 
account of      abcdefg

This is to certify that the member is on the Retired rolls of this Center and is currently entitled 
to pay at the gross monthly rate of  $x,xxx.00 which is normally payable during his/her lifetime.

Sincerely,

Retired Pay Department