LTR Visa is Now available for Long Term Residency

[oldcpu]

On 7/11/2024 at 8:20 PM, oldcpu said:

 

Currently - even thou I am applying for a Thai-Tax-ID, I may not submit a tax return for tax-year 2023 (nor possibly tax-year-2024, 2025 ... ). This is something I am reviewing for myself and I am not yet certain.

...

But again - I don't know for certain, and for myself, and my financial situation, I will continue to try to improve my own understanding.

 

 

My Thai wife submitted the online application for a Thai Tax-ID for myself (a foreigner in Thailand on an LTR-WP visa) , where that included uploading copies of my pink-ID and Yellow Book. She gave her phone # as the contact number.

 

Today she received a phone call from the Thai tax department, advising her, given I had no income in Thailand, that I did not have to obtain a Thai tax ID, even though I am in Thailand for >180 days.    My wife asked that some sort of official document be sent to her (and me) to record that. 

 

The person on the phone also purportedly told her that while a pink-ID card's number can be a foreigner's tax ID, it needs to be activated by Revenue Thailand before it becomes active as a Thai Tax ID number.

 

My wife advised the official on the phone that I obtain interest from Thai banks (which have a withholding tax amount) and also interest from a Thai bond (which also has a with holding tax amount).  My wife asked at what point do I have to obtain a Thai Tax ID if that interest exceeds some TBD financial level.

 

The official advised my wife she would call her back later after researching answer for the two questions (ie (1) my wife asking for an official record that I don't have to ask for a Tax ID, and (2) when do I have to ask for a Tax ID due to Thai interest reaching some TBD amount of money).

 

Frankly - I don't know if this was good or bad news - I was kind of left with a fuzzy feeling that the official may not be up to date with the latest Thai tax laws (but they should be) ... so I am most curious as to what the answer will be when my wife is phoned back (which IMHO could be a week or more).

 

Edited July 16 by oldcpu

[stat]

7 hours ago, JohnnyBD said:

I do not understand why some, who do not have LTR visas, keep posting that LTR visa holders can lose their tax exempt status for no reason at all. I was at BOI just last week, and was told as long as I continue to meet the requirements; insurance, $100k in bank, $80k pension income, etc., then all the monies I remit from overseas, will be tax exempt. The tax exempt benefits are posted on BOI's website for all to see, (Royal Decree 743 and Director-General's Notification on Tax No. 427). Take care.

Because "those people" questioning the tax exempt staus think about getting an LTR 😉. I will only get an LTR if the tax exemption is valid and ideally confirmed by TRD (not much hope though this will happen).

 

Did you kindly ask BOI explicitly if TRD has confirmed their view and or why their offical FB page states all is dependant on TRD? I know loss of face issue etc but this is business we are talking about serious money.

 

Thanks!

[JimGant]

52 minutes ago, stat said:

I will only get an LTR if the tax exemption is valid and ideally confirmed by TRD (not much hope though this will happen).

Then, don't get one. Move on with your life, and quit whining on this thread.

 

Not exactly sure of why such a big decision -- either a LTR visa, or you move out of Thailand?  Obviously, if you plan to stay in Thailand, and you qualify for the LTR visa -- get one. The probability is huge that the LTR tax exemption will survive any scenario. But, if not -- and you had planned to live in Thailand indefinitely -- you're then just another peon, with a Non Imm O visa. Is that not survivable? Anyway, maybe you should take a course in probability analysis..

[Ben Zioner]

1 hour ago, stat said:

IMHO BOI is not checking mid year if you still have 80K pension. AFAIK they will check after 5 years again and then maybe only the last year. Do not know about Health insurance but I would assume the same.

Not yet but their are likely to request proof of conformity at the 5 years renewal. And recalc your tax for every year you have failed to conform. Also they put TRD into the picture who is developing all the tools to keep people in check.

 

1 hour ago, stat said:

I understand that the folks who already have the LTR do not want to hear any doubts about the tax exemption status but there also the folks like me who are thinking about getting an LTR.

There is no doubt that we have tax exemption at this point in time and in all likelihood for the rest of 2024. What will happen next is everyone's guess. Mine would be a 60% chance that the exemption stays, because we are not dealing with idiots here, BOI and TRD know that too much tax kills revenue, even Reagan knew that. And even more so with highly mobile people on yearly incomes of 100000 Euros or more, who will simply vote with their feet and look from greener pastures 186 days a year.

 

As far as you are concerned, it is difficult to understand that you express such anxiety, if you really want to retire to Thailand build your best case, solely based on one pension if you can and move ahead. The visa costs only 50000 Baht. But, between you and me, I wouldn't move here right now, I'd enjoy the mountains of Bavaria, Strudel, Weisswurzt and German P4P, which is quite good, I hope you are aware of that.

Edited July 16 by Ben Zioner

[JohnnyBD]

1 hour ago, stat said:

Because "those people" questioning the tax exempt staus think about getting an LTR 😉. I will only get an LTR if the tax exemption is valid and ideally confirmed by TRD (not much hope though this will happen).

 

Did you kindly ask BOI explicitly if TRD has confirmed their view and or why their offical FB page states all is dependant on TRD? I know loss of face issue etc but this is business we are talking about serious money.

 

Thanks!

All I can tell you is, I have it in writing from BOI, and was told just last week at the BOI office again, that all the monies I remit going forward are tax exempt. The BOI website has the Royal Decree 743 and Revenue Dept. Director-General's Notification on Tax No. 427 posted on it, which supports this. Right now, the rule is all monies remitted by LTR-WP visa holders are tax exempt. That is not in question. I'm sure if the rules ever change, BOI will notify everyone since we are in their database. I'm not worried at all. I don't know what else to tell you.

Edited July 16 by JohnnyBD

[oldcpu]

2 hours ago, oldcpu said:

 

My Thai wife submitted the online application for a Thai Tax-ID for myself (a foreigner in Thailand on an LTR-WP visa) , where that included uploading copies of my pink-ID and Yellow Book. She gave her phone # as the contact number.

 

Today she received a phone call from the Thai tax department, advising her, given I had no income in Thailand, that I did not have to obtain a Thai tax ID, even though I am in Thailand for >180 days.    My wife asked that some sort of official document be sent to her (and me) to record that. 

 

The person on the phone also purportedly told her that while a pink-ID card's number can be a foreigner's tax ID, it needs to be activated by Revenue Thailand before it becomes active as a Thai Tax ID number.

 

My wife advised the official on the phone that I obtain interest from Thai banks (which have a withholding tax amount) and also interest from a Thai bond (which also has a with holding tax amount).  My wife asked at what point do I have to obtain a Thai Tax ID if that interest exceeds some TBD financial level.

 

The official advised my wife she would call her back later after researching answer for the two questions (ie (1) my wife asking for an official record that I don't have to ask for a Tax ID, and (2) when do I have to ask for a Tax ID due to Thai interest reaching some TBD amount of money).

 

Frankly - I don't know if this was good or bad news - I was kind of left with a fuzzy feeling that the official may not be up to date with the latest Thai tax laws (but they should be) ... so I am most curious as to what the answer will be when my wife is phoned back (which IMHO could be a week or more).

 

 

I was unhappy with what I learned from my wife (and posted above), so I decided to ask my my more questions to see if she left out any details ... and of course - she did leave out a LOT ... and I mean a LOT . < sigh >  "Drilling down" for more details is always a bit risky from a happy marriage perspective, as it highly irritates my wife.

 

Anyway, the Tax official she talked to was from the Phuket branch of the Thailand tax department.  Apparently the online application went to the central office in Thailand, and they in turn passed the application to the Phuket branch of the tax department (as we live in Phuket).

 

The Phuket tax official asked my wife, how long do I stay in Thailand and what was my income source? 

 

My wife advised I am in Thailand for >180 days per year and my income is from foreign pensions. My wife said she then added a quick comment that I don't bring my pension into Thailand.  This is 'currently true' as at present any money I bring in is from savings from over a decade ago - long before 1-Jan-2024. However my wife did not say I am living off of savings nor did she state that I do bring that savings into the country on the odd occasion.

 

The Phuket tax official then said if I don't bring in any income into Thailand, then I do not have to file a Thailand tax form. The official added if I do bring foreign "income" into Thailand, then I should then apply for a tax ID.

 

My wife then asked, given I am on a LTR-Pensioner visa, which by royal decree states assessable income as tax exempt for LTR-P, am I still required to file a tax return? and am I required to get a tax ID? 

 

The Phuket tax official noted they had never heard of an LTR visa.  They would have to check.

 

.. < sigh > ...

 

The devil is in the details.  I have learned nothing from the above that I did not already know.

 

Hopefully when the tax official calls back, I will obtain more answers.  I am trying to 'prep' my wife as to what she needs to find out, but that is difficult, as she has her own view on these things. 

 

If I learn more, I will post - and my apologies for my quoted post on this, which is a bit misleading IMHO (but it IS what my wife initially passed on to me).

 

 

Edited July 16 by oldcpu

[JohnnyBD]

6 hours ago, stat said:

Because "those people" questioning the tax exempt staus think about getting an LTR 😉. I will only get an LTR if the tax exemption is valid and ideally confirmed by TRD (not much hope though this will happen).

The following TRD document is on the BOI website. I hope it's enough (along with the Royal Decree 743) to convince you that the tax exmption for LTR visa holders is valid. I'm convinced.

 

Notification of the Director-General of the Revenue Department

Regarding Income Tax (No. 427)

Re: Prescribing rules, procedures, and conditions on income tax reduction and exemption for long-term resident

-----

By virtue of Section 3 and Section 6 of the Royal Decree issued under the Revenue Code governing reduction of tax rates and exemption of taxes (No. 743) B.E. 2565 (2022), the Director-General of the Revenue Department prescribes rules, procedures, and conditions on income tax reduction and exemption for long-term resident as follows:

-----

Clause 2 A foreigner categorised as High-Skilled Professional, Wealthy Global Citizen, Wealthy Pensioner, or Work-from-Thailand Professional who is eligible for income tax reduction or exemption under Section 3, Section 4, or Section 5 of the Royal Decree issued under the Revenue Code governing reduction of tax rates and exemption of taxes (No. 743) B.E. 2565 (2022), as the case may be, must meet the following qualifications:

(1) Be granted a Long-Term Resident Visa under immigration law, as the case may be;

(2) Meets qualifications for and complies with rules and conditions on Long-Term Resident Visa as prescribed by the Office of the Board of Investment.

Notification of Income Tax No.427 (EN).pdf (boi.go.th)

Royal Decree issued under the Revenue Code No.743 (EN).pdf (boi.go.th)

Edited July 16 by JohnnyBD

[oldcpu]

9 hours ago, JohnnyBD said:

The following TRD document is on the BOI website. I hope it's enough (along with the Royal Decree 743) to convince you that the tax exmption for LTR visa holders is valid. I'm convinced.

 

 

Thankyou for your post.

 

From the "Notification of the Director Gerneral of the Revenue Department Regarding Income Tax (No.427) it is clear that LTR visa foreigners under categories Highly Skilled Professional, Wealthy Global Citizen, Wealthy Pensioner, and Work-from-Thailand Professional (who are eligble for income tax reduction or exemption) MUST comply with rules and conditions on the LTR Visa as prescribed by the BOI.

 

Further, it notes foreigners under section-3 (LTR-Highly Skilled Professional) and section-4 which again refers to LTR-Highly Skilled Professional) as defined in the Royal decree, must file a Thai Income Tax return.

 

It does not state whether foreigners under section-5 (Wealthy Global Citzen, Wealthy Pensioner, and Work-from-Thailand Professional) need to file an income tax return. 

 

However it does clearly state (again) that all LTR visa holders MUST meet qualifications and comply with rules, procedures, and conditions as prescribed by the Director-General of the Revenue Department.  So what rule might these be?  How about the rule where if one is in Thailand >180 days one may need to file a tax return?

 

Note also the wording is clear, that the  Wealthy Global Citizen, Wealthy Pensioner, or Work-from-Thailand Professional are granted a Long-Term Resident Visa under immigration law are exempt for foreign assessable income. ... i.e. this directly refers to foreign income that IS assessable, but then it is considered exempted.  It is not made "not assessable", it is not defined as "not assesable", but rather it is made "exempt".   Does that wording matter?  I don't know.

 

So as I posted previous, for me that begs the question, is "assessable income that is exempt" from income tax clause identical to "non-assessable income" in all respects?  IMHO the question is important in regards to any need (or NO need) to file an income tax return. 

 

I prefer the explanation that 'exempt' is identical to 'not assessable' and hence  "NO NEED" to file a tax return answer - but honestly I don't know.  I prefer not to speculate based on my preference/hope.

 

Anyway - my hope is to eventually get a direct answer from the Thai revenue department on this question, rather than to try to dig up an answer from the BoI (where I suspect (but again I don't know) that any Revenue Department ruling may take precedent over any BoI statement). 

 

Which is not to preclude obtaining BoI answers - but I would also prefer if this was made crystal clear from the Thai Revenue Department.

 

I am still waiting for the Thai Revenue department to call my wife back, where we used the application of a Thai Tax-ID for me (with me being an LTR-P holder), as an approach to try to obtain the maximum amount of clarity on this question.  Perhaps I won't succeed here - but I am trying.

Edited July 17 by oldcpu

[Ben Zioner]

12 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

 

Thankyou for your post.

 

From the "Notification of the Director Gerneral of the Revenue Department Regarding Income Tax (No.427) it is clear that LTR visa foreigners under categories Highly Skilled Professional, Wealthy Global Citizen, Wealthy Pensioner, and Work-from-Thailand Professional (who are eligble for income tax reduction or exemption) MUST comply with rules and conditions on the LTR Visa as prescribed by the BOI.

 

Further, it notes foreigners under section-3 (LTR-Highly Skilled Professional) and section-4 which again refers to LTR-Highly Skilled Professional) as defined in the Royal decree, must file a Thai Income Tax return.

 

It does not state whether foreigners under section-5 (Wealthy Global Citzen, Wealthy Pensioner, and Work-from-Thailand Professional) need to file an income tax return. 

 

However it does clearly state (again) that all LTR visa holders MUST meet qualifications and comply with rules, procedures, and conditions as prescribed by the Director-General of the Revenue Department.  So what rule might these be?  How about the rule where if one is in Thailand >180 days one may need to file a tax return?

 

Note also the wording is clear, that the  Wealthy Global Citizen, Wealthy Pensioner, or Work-from-Thailand Professional are granted a Long-Term Resident Visa under immigration law are exempt for foreign assessable income. ... i.e. this directly refers to foreign income that IS assessable, but then it is considered exempted.  It is not made "not assessable", it is not defined as "not assesable", but rather it is made "exempt".   Does that wording matter?  I don't know.

 

So as I posted previous, for me that begs the question, is "assessable income that is exempt" from income tax clause identical to "non-assessable income" in all respects?  IMHO the question is important in regards to any need (or NO need) to file an income tax return. 

 

I prefer the explanation that 'exempt' is identical to 'not assessable' and hence  "NO NEED" to file a tax return answer - but honestly I don't know.  I prefer not to speculate based on my preference/hope.

 

Anyway - my hope is to eventually get a direct answer from the Thai revenue department on this question, rather than to try to dig up an answer from the BoI (where I suspect (but again I don't know) that any Revenue Department ruling may take precedent over any BoI statement). 

 

Which is not to preclude obtaining BoI answers - but I would also prefer if this was made crystal clear from the Thai Revenue Department.

 

I am still waiting for the Thai Revenue department to call my wife back, where we used the application of a Thai Tax-ID for me (with me being an LTR-P holder), as an approach to try to obtain the maximum amount of clarity on this question.  Perhaps I won't succeed here - but I am trying.

You ought to wait until the 2024 IT form comes out. 

Edited July 17 by Ben Zioner

[oldcpu]

1 hour ago, Ben Zioner said:

You ought to wait until the 2024 IT form comes out. 

 

That definitely is a good approach. 

 

Another thought I had on the approach my Thai wife and I are adopting, is by 'shaking the tree' very very VERY tactfully in an indirect way now, that we may contribute to the RD thinking in terms of the 2024 IT, such that it will have the correct entries for the LTR visa  ... or result in further Revenue Department clarifications.

Edited July 17 by oldcpu

[Ben Zioner]

1 hour ago, oldcpu said:

So what rule might these be?  How about the rule where if one is in Thailand >180 days one may need to file a tax return?

Honestly this is what I believe:

 

a) BOI rules we know for sure

  - 80000 USD Pension,

  - Health Insurance.

b) TRD rule(s) speculation

 - file a tax return,

 - ?

You may note that b) could fee into the enforcement of a). If not I'd suggest people keep their paperwork tidy for when they apply for the next 5 years lot. 

 

[oldcpu]

46 minutes ago, Ben Zioner said:

Honestly this is what I believe:

 

a) BOI rules we know for sure

  - 80000 USD Pension,

  - Health Insurance.

b) TRD rule(s) speculation

 - file a tax return,

 - ?

You may note that b) could fee into the enforcement of a). If not I'd suggest people keep their paperwork tidy for when they apply for the next 5 years lot. 

 

 

I agree with that - except 5 years may be too late, ... and further the only addition I might have is a caution in the Royal Decree No.743 on the LTR visa, in Section-7 that states (unofficial English translation):

 

"Section 7 - In the case that a foreigner has applied tax reduction or exemption under this Royal Decree, and does not comply with the rules prescribed in Section 3, Section 4, Section 5 and Section 6, in any tax year, benefits will be suspended in that tax year."

 

That is rather punitive.

 

Note that 'section-6' (which is referred to in section-7 above) then states (again unofficial English translation):

 

"Section 6 - A foreigner who is entitled to the benefits under Section 3, Section 4, and Section 5 must meet qualifications and comply with rules, procedures, and conditions as prescribed by the Director-General of the Revenue Department."

 

Again, Section-3 and 4 refers to the "LTR High-Skilled Professional" and section-5 refers to "Wealthy Global Citzen, Wealthy Pensioner, and Work From Thailand Professional".

 

So very clearly Section-3 and Section-4 and Section-5  LTR-visa holders can run into problems if they do not comply with  rules, procedures, and conditions as prescribed by the Director-General of the Revenue Department.  I ask again, what are those rules, procedures, and conditions?

 

And again, Thailand Revenue Department has tuned its tax intepretation defining anyone in Thailand for 180 days and greater is considered a tax resident, which means they need to file a tax return on assesable income.  Thailand Revenue Department did NOT state LTR visa holders are exempt from following their rules.  There is nothing that states clearly that Section-5 (from Royal Decree) visa holders do not have to follow Thai Revenue Department rules, procedures nor conditions. Just the opposite is stated.

 

So if a Section-5 LTR Visa holder (ie LTR-WP, LTR-GC, or LTR-HSP) should not follow Thai Revenue Department rules, procedures nor conditions their tax benefits will be suspended in that tax year.  .... ie one could interpret that as saying they will then have to pay tax on their foreign income if they don't follow some rule (where I fear such could be something as basic as not filing an income tax return).

 

This is the thrust of my trying to figure this out and why I think it useful to try have this made very very clear. And that is why I am adopting the indirect approach I noted ...

 

Yes, I could turn a blind eye, stick my head in the sand, and indeed, it may work out fine just like I think we all hope it works out fine (as that was what we were lead to believe by BoI when we applied for the LTR Visa). ie No tax return !! No tax on foreign sourced income.  I do hope that. I want to blindly hope that.

 

But I don't like that "hope only" approach. So I am trying to very tactfully prod the Thai Revenue department, by applying for a Tax ID, and obtain something definitive from them.

 

I don't criticize those who put their faith 100% that there will be no tax return requirements for Section-5 LTR visa holders, as that is ALSO what I want.  

 

I just want to ensure we don't get impacted by Section-7's punitive clause because we had too much faith and believed in good faith we did not have to file a tax return.  

 

I will try to explore this as tactful as possible - and as noted - I may not succeed to get any clarity.

Edited July 17 by oldcpu

[White Rabbit]

1 hour ago, oldcpu said:

 

That definitely is a good approach. 

 

Another thought I had on the approach my Thai wife and I are adopting, is by 'shaking the tree' very very VERY tactfully in an indirect way now, that we may contribute to the RD thinking in terms of the 2024 IT, such that it will have the correct entries for the LTR visa  ... or result in further Revenue Department clarifications.

Respectfully, I think you are asking for trouble... you will not get more concise answers - the system doesn't work like that - and it wouldn't in Italy, or today's Germany or the UK for that matter.

In Thailand wordings are mostly opaque - not necessarily intentionally but it's in the language which is much less black and white than our Western languages are.

So my advice would be to cease harassing your wife for further phone calls, and to relax and enjoy your life and the tax free status which the LTR WP visa grants you - at least for now and the foreseeable future.

I'm sure your wife will thank you as well. Most Thais feel we're overthinking things anyway.

By applying for the LTR visa we have all done what we could. 

 

(If you can't stop worrying you could always travel and make sure you'll spend less than 180 days in Phuket/Thailand.)

Edited July 17 by White Rabbit

[oldcpu]

14 minutes ago, White Rabbit said:

Respectfully, I think you are asking for trouble... you will not get more concise answers - the system doesn't work like that - and it wouldn't in Italy for Germany or the UK for that matter. In Thailand wordings are often opaque - not necessarily intentionally but it's in the language which is much less black and white than our Western languages are. So my advice would be to cease harassing your wife for further phone calls, and to relax and enjoy your life and the tax free status which the LTR WP visa grants you - at least for now and the foreseeable future. I'm sure your wife will thank you as well. Most Thais feel we're overthinking things anyway. By applying for the LTR visa we have all done what we could. 

(If you can't stop worrying you could always travel and make sure you'll spend less than 180 days in Phuket/Thailand.)

 

I agree with all that you state EXCEPT for the "asking for trouble" wording. 

 

I am going about this very indirectly and tactfully. Very tactfully.

 

Would you prefer to find out (say in year 2027)that you have to pay tax on year 2024 and 2025 and 2026 assessable foreign income, that you should have been tax exempt, but you now have to pay tax on it, only because you failed to file a tax return?

 

As you infer, TIT (this is Thailand).  I can't predict the future despite many years living here.  What I can predict is that somethings are not predictable.

 

As for doing nothing and having faith, ... that's your choice. I respect that.  It is thou what I call the 'head in the sand approach' and I will repeat it may very well be the best approach.  And it may not.

 

But its not my approach.

Edited July 17 by oldcpu

[stat]

19 hours ago, JimGant said:

Then, don't get one. Move on with your life, and quit whining on this thread.

 

Not exactly sure of why such a big decision -- either a LTR visa, or you move out of Thailand?  Obviously, if you plan to stay in Thailand, and you qualify for the LTR visa -- get one. The probability is huge that the LTR tax exemption will survive any scenario. But, if not -- and you had planned to live in Thailand indefinitely -- you're then just another peon, with a Non Imm O visa. Is that not survivable? Anyway, maybe you should take a course in probability analysis..

Apparently you do not care for the difference between whining and careful consideration in a huge financial decission. Also you are making lots of assumptions which are just that assumptions and wrong in my case.

 

Why would I pay taxes in TH if other countries offer me to be tax free?

 

NB: I have read my Incerto series which I am sure you have not 😉

Edited July 17 by stat

[JackGats]

1 hour ago, oldcpu said:

 

...

 

So very clearly Section-3 and Section-4 and Section-5  LTR-visa holders can run into problems if they do not comply with  rules, procedures, and conditions as prescribed by the Director-General of the Revenue Department.  I ask again, what are those rules, procedures, and conditions?

 

...

That defines the conundrum in a nutshell.

[JohnnyBD]

37 minutes ago, JackGats said:

That defines the conundrum in a nutshell.

 

37 minutes ago, JackGats said:

  1 hour ago, oldcpu said:

So very clearly Section-3 and Section-4 and Section-5  LTR-visa holders can run into problems if they do not comply with  rules, procedures, and conditions as prescribed by the Director-General of the Revenue Department.  I ask again, what are those rules, procedures, and conditions?

These appear to be the TRD rules that apply to LTR visa tax exemption. I haven't found any other TRD documents which have additional rules on tax exemption.

 

Clause 2 A foreigner categorised as High-Skilled Professional, Wealthy Global Citizen, Wealthy Pensioner, or Work-from-Thailand Professional who is eligible for income tax reduction or exemption under Section 3, Section 4, or Section 5 of the Royal Decree issued under the Revenue Code governing reduction of tax rates and exemption of taxes (No. 743) B.E. 2565 (2022), as the case may be, must meet the following qualifications:

(1) Be granted a Long-Term Resident Visa under immigration law, as the case may be;

(2) Meets qualifications for and complies with rules and conditions on Long-Term Resident Visa as prescribed by the Office of the Board of Investment.

Edited July 17 by JohnnyBD

[JackGats]

12 minutes ago, JohnnyBD said:

 

The rules are listed below, and was in the TRD document you are referring to:

 

Clause 2 A foreigner categorised as High-Skilled Professional, Wealthy Global Citizen, Wealthy Pensioner, or Work-from-Thailand Professional who is eligible for income tax reduction or exemption under Section 3, Section 4, or Section 5 of the Royal Decree issued under the Revenue Code governing reduction of tax rates and exemption of taxes (No. 743) B.E. 2565 (2022), as the case may be, must meet the following qualifications:

(1) Be granted a Long-Term Resident Visa under immigration law, as the case may be;

(2) Meets qualifications for and complies with rules and conditions on Long-Term Resident Visa as prescribed by the Office of the Board of Investment.

 

Point (1) and (2) just mean holders of an LTR visa are eligible for an LTR-based tax exemption insofar as they go on fulfilling the conditions of an LTR visa, the corollary being that they lose the exemption if they stop fulfilling said conditions. This sounds like something that was self-evident and hardly needed spelling out.

 

The question now is: "is this all?".

[White Rabbit]

2 hours ago, oldcpu said:

 

I agree with all that you state EXCEPT for the "asking for trouble" wording. 

 

I am going about this very indirectly and tactfully. Very tactfully.

 

Would you prefer to find out (say in year 2027)that you have to pay tax on year 2024 and 2025 and 2026 assessable foreign income, that you should have been tax exempt, but you now have to pay tax on it, only because you failed to file a tax return?

 

As you infer, TIT (this is Thailand).  I can't predict the future despite many years living here.  What I can predict is that somethings are not predictable.

 

As for doing nothing and having faith, ... that's your choice. I respect that.  It is thou what I call the 'head in the sand approach' and I will repeat it may very well be the best approach.  And it may not.

 

But its not my approach.

Of course you are right to try if you so wish and should you get clearer answers I and others will certainly be grateful if you share those with us here.

 

I'm personally quite satisfied with the answers laid out by the BOI and communicated here. A royal decree does hold value for sure. 

 

I would not agree that mine is a 'head in the sand' approach though as I simply just doubt there will ever be a clear black and white answer. There are advantages for the authorities to not clarifying things 100% - so there's always a possibility to fault/pressurise you should you misbehave. 

In Italy for example if you build you'll always and inevitably be in the wrong as there are countless diverging and opposing laws and regulations. You'll learn to live with it as you do with all inherent risks of life... 

 

I personally think it's equally risky to pressurise local authorities in Phuket too much about something they themselves not even know how to deal with yet. I'd prefer to fly under the radar as much as possible without neglecting my research. 

 

The BOI and the PM for all his activism are no strangers to reasonable economic behaviour and are aware of the mid- and longterm consequences of heavily taxing wealthy foreigners and companies. (Of course the best solution for all would be simple flat tax (1-300k THB or so) payable by all foreign residents without having to strip naked and fill out forms.)

 

There are so many considerations that we have absolutely no control over as much as one might wish.

 

Wishing you all the best and good luck. 

 

[JohnnyBD]

52 minutes ago, White Rabbit said:

Of course you are right to try if you so wish and should you get clearer answers I and others will certainly be grateful if you share those with us here.

 

I'm personally quite satisfied with the answers laid out by the BOI and communicated here. A royal decree does hold value for sure. 

Just so you know, the question was asked and answered by BOI just this week on whether LTR-P visa holders need to file a tax return. BOI's answer was NO, we do not need to file a tax return if we had no Thai-sourced income. I am quite satisfied with BOI's answer, and if anything changes, I'm sure BOI will let us know if we need to file a "nil" tax return.

 

On 7/15/2024 at 9:15 AM, Incorrigible1 said:

For what it is worth, today I went to One Stop to get a residence certificate (LTR proved to be valuable in getting expedited, courteous service).  After finishing I stopped by BOI and met with one of the representatives.  In answer to my question, he told me that any income earned outside of Thailand is exempt and that if I had no income generated in Thailand, I did not have to file a tax return.

Edited July 17 by JohnnyBD

[K2938]

8 hours ago, oldcpu said:

I agree with all that you state EXCEPT for the "asking for trouble" wording. 

 

I am going about this very indirectly and tactfully. Very tactfully.

 

Would you prefer to find out (say in year 2027)that you have to pay tax on year 2024 and 2025 and 2026 assessable foreign income, that you should have been tax exempt, but you now have to pay tax on it, only because you failed to file a tax return?

 

As you infer, TIT (this is Thailand).  I can't predict the future despite many years living here.  What I can predict is that somethings are not predictable.

 

As for doing nothing and having faith, ... that's your choice. I respect that.  It is thou what I call the 'head in the sand approach' and I will repeat it may very well be the best approach.  And it may not.

 

But its not my approach.

Very grateful for your work!  🙏🙏🙏

[Ben Zioner]

17 hours ago, JackGats said:

Point (1) and (2) just mean holders of an LTR visa are eligible for an LTR-based tax exemption insofar as they go on fulfilling the conditions of an LTR visa, the corollary being that they lose the exemption if they stop fulfilling said conditions. This sounds like something that was self-evident and hardly needed spelling out.

issued

The question now is: "is this all?".

Self evident maybe, but not insignificant as the document quoted by @JohnnyBD has been issued by TRD. And, if you read it carefully it seems to imply that filing a tax return is not require for LTR/WP holders. Section 5 or RD 743 isn't mentioned in Clause 3, only Sections 3 & 4 are.

Edited July 18 by Ben Zioner

[Danny Liu]

Dear members, I recently received my Qualification Endorsement (Pre-Approval) from BOI for my LTR application. However, my dependent application still showing "Consideration by Government Agencies". Should I proceed with submission of Additional Documents or wait until my dependent application to approved.

 

Another question is, if I choose "The Immigration Bureau" as visa issuance location. How long I need to wait to get the appointment for visa issuance?

 

Thanks in Advance

[JackGats]

4 minutes ago, Danny Liu said:

Dear members, I recently received my Qualification Endorsement (Pre-Approval) from BOI for my LTR application. However, my dependent application still showing "Consideration by Government Agencies". Should I proceed with submission of Additional Documents or wait until my dependent application to approved.

 

Another question is, if I choose "The Immigration Bureau" as visa issuance location. How long I need to wait to get the appointment for visa issuance?

 

Thanks in Advance

At this point they want you to be Thailand. They are not interested in your flight, they want you first legally into Thailand. You should first travel to Thailand (on a visa waiver or on your present visa). As soon as you check into your hotel in Thailand, upload a scan of your "permitted to stay" passport stamp as "additional document" as well as your immigration card as the case may be (but I think immigration cards are no longer used). The BIO will then email you to ask in which hotel you are staying, including which room in that hotel. Make sure the hotel declares your arrival to immigration asap.

 

I was invited to pick an appointment on the very same day I sent the info about my hotel in Thailand. They don't send you the appointment, they ask you to pick one from a roster.

 

If I am forgetting something I'm sure some forum member will correct me.

[Danny Liu]

Appreciate ur valuable input JackGats.

[Incorrigible1]

There are 1,300+ wealthy pensioners with the LTR, each having a minimum annual income of $80,000.  If each person spent only half of that annual income in Thailand each year, this would be $52,000,000.  I seriously doubt that the Thai government would risk losing this

[Lost Nomad]

Need some quick guidance.  I'm hoping to schedule appt tomorrow morning but am confused by the email.  I can't find a couple of the forms and need quick photos.  Staying in Phrom Phong area so hope to get everything prepped tonight.  I'm using a laptop and not sure if these missing forms are already filled in and I just can't find them or do I need to find blank forms and fill them in.

 

Then please download, print out and bring the following documents
together with other required documents in order to present to the
immigration officer on the appointment date.
1. the Notification of qualification endorsement for Long-Term
Resident Visa - Do I print the English version/Thai version/ or both?
2. TM.94 form (double-sided) - Can't find this on my LTR page
3. STM.8 form (double-sided) - Can't find this on my LTR page
4. One passport size photo (4 cm x 6 cm) white background, dressed
in business attire (t-shirt is not allowed) without wearing glasses or
headgear, taken within 6 months (a photocopy or poor quality - Is that the right size?
photos will not be accepted) - Is there a photo center in Chamchuri Square building?
5. the appointment confirmation document / processing fee payment
form from the system.
 

Edited July 18 by Lost Nomad

[stat]

1 hour ago, Incorrigible1 said:

There are 1,300+ wealthy pensioners with the LTR, each having a minimum annual income of $80,000.  If each person spent only half of that annual income in Thailand each year, this would be $52,000,000.  I seriously doubt that the Thai government would risk losing this

I tend to agree but then TiT. Maybe they decide they would get much more in taxes and only a hadfull of expats will leave. Our western logic does not really work in TH. BTW France also imposed a 75% income tax only to realise later that it was a mistake

[JohnnyBD]

1 hour ago, Lost Nomad said:

Need some quick guidance.  I'm hoping to schedule appt tomorrow morning but am confused by the email.  I can't find a couple of the forms and need quick photos.  Staying in Phrom Phong area so hope to get everything prepped tonight.  I'm using a laptop and not sure if these missing forms are already filled in and I just can't find them or do I need to find blank forms and fill them in.

 

Then please download, print out and bring the following documents
together with other required documents in order to present to the
immigration officer on the appointment date.
1. the Notification of qualification endorsement for Long-Term
Resident Visa - Do I print the English version/Thai version/ or both?
2. TM.94 form (double-sided) - Can't find this on my LTR page
3. STM.8 form (double-sided) - Can't find this on my LTR page
4. One passport size photo (4 cm x 6 cm) white background, dressed
in business attire (t-shirt is not allowed) without wearing glasses or
headgear, taken within 6 months (a photocopy or poor quality - Is that the right size?
photos will not be accepted) - Is there a photo center in Chamchuri Square building?
5. the appointment confirmation document / processing fee payment
form from the system.
 

1. Notification - I printed both versions and gave them both to be safe, they were in the last section where I uploaded the docs

2. The TM.94 had a button to press to print on first screen after I scheduled appt.

3. same for STM.8, had button, also appointment confirmation had button to press to print, only after appt. was scheduled 

4. Yes 4x6cm, I brought my 5x5cm US passport photo also, and they used it instead of 4x6

There is a print & photo shop around Sukhumvit 33 close to Phrom Phong on north side of street that I used.

 

Edited July 18 by JohnnyBD

[Lost Nomad]

Thanks!  Once I scheduled the appointment the magical buttons appeared.  Forms are printed and I found a photo shop in the HiSo mall down the street. I'm sure I overpaid, but at least I saw the Thai Justin Beeber walking through the mall.  The girls were lined up by the hundreds all with their phones snapping photos.  I have no idea who he is, but he was somebody famous to Thai people.