Paperwork is clogging up government departments in Thailand

[robertson468]

My Thai Wife says the more staff employed in a Government Department, the more back-handers the boss gets for them to be considered for promotion!  Corruption personified?

[QPRFC]

There is even more demand to cut down trees now....so that they can plant Mary Jane trees instead ????

 

Do they keep the paperwork for the same 7 years as most countries do?

 

PS. I must already have quite a few boxes of paperwork stored somewhere....I even wonder if they know where to look to find my previous information !?!

[phitsanulokjohn]

After doing 6 years worth of marriage extensions.I would have to agree it requires more signatures than enough.I look at it this way, it usually takes an hour to complete and saves me a further B400,000 stuck in the bank doing nothing for the alternative of a retirement visa,so all in all I don't mind much.I have to admit though the amount of paperwork here is staggering.

[GaWalker]

8 hours ago, StayinThailand2much said:

The Thais certainly like their paperwork, everything copied and multiple times, too.  Sometimes one feels like having travelled through a wormhole back to the 1960s when there were only few computers...

The Vietnamese are the same, my daughters final exam diploma issued by the education department wasn’t good enough for the university in Saigon without first taking it to a government office to have it stamped and signed by some young guy behind a desc, wouldn’t life be easier if the school exam board would just send a copy electronically to the university’s, the certificate is already late by 1 year due to Covid. 

[Orinoco]

1 hour ago, Mavideol said:

was trying to figure how is their ratings... there's 1st world, 2nd world and 3rd world, can't see them fitting in any of these, what's the next classification ..... 555

Walley world. Fits very well.

[Archie Baker]

6 hours ago, gp2002 said:

"So what is stopping the government from implementing digitization on a grand scale?"

 

Common sense, intelligence... I'll stop there ????????

Digital = less people.  They need to keep people employed at all costs always been the case always will be.  Just look at the banking sector which has many similarities.  It's a case of if you don't like it go somewhere else. 

[brianthainess]

That's the way it is please desist from whining. ????

[brianthainess]

2 hours ago, shackleton said:

But what can one do just grin and bear it ???? 

It's the way things are here in Thailand

You can come on this site and whine about it apparently. ????

[Burma Bill]

Thailand- the "Hub of Bureaucracy"??? (one of the reasons I left after 20 years)

[blackshadow]

5 hours ago, ikke1959 said:

Everywhere in Thailand the same.. I needed a proof of adress at immigration and did my 90 days report.... I needed copy of my rental contract, copy of my passport to get my proof of adress.. Whatam I doing than every 90 days?? I had already a Tm form for my address, I do 17 years on the same addrees a 90 days  reports I renwe with all copies of everything my visa, and still they don't have a digital file???? How many passportpics they have already? Now I need an re entry visa so I am copying again everything..... So much waste of paper...and everywhere, taxoffice, Government offices, and just everywhere in THailand copies copies copies  

ITS CALLED a money making machine........

[LikeItHot]

Do tell.....

[BangkokReady]

"Paperwork is clogging up government departments in Thailand"

 

paperwork is the sole reason that the government departments are there. The government departments are paperwork.

[NoshowJones]

"It is starting to get out of hand and yet everything could be simply dealt with online."

Don't you need a bit of a brain to do things online?

[LikeItHot]

6 minutes ago, Burma Bill said:

Thailand- the "Hub of Bureaucracy"??? (one of the reasons I left after 20 years)

It took you twenty years to figure out out? You sound like one of them.

[LukKrueng]

What's your point? I recently applied for a Schengen visa. Although you fill in the application online, you still have to print it + few more declarations+passport copies+old visas in old passports + insurance + flight ticket + hotel reservations...

 

[Edina]

In a way I think the Thais have got it right, waste of paper yes I recognize but they have a pretty good idea who is in their country unlike the UK.   

[georgey]

When I recently did my one-year extension based on marriage, I decided, out of pure laziness, to use the same photos as last year. I was amazed when they phoned a few days later to tell me they were unacceptable. Someone had actually dug out my paperwork from last year and compared this year's photos with last year's. Full marks for being thorough!

[trainman34014]

My Wife is Thai and a former Nurse for 25 years.  She will tell you that Thailand is very much a Third World Country and the 'Elite' that run the Country want it kept that way as it suits all their Corrupt behaviour and keeps the Sheeple Uneducated, Dumbed Down and no credible threat to them.

 

The Mountains of Paperwork will remain for Generations to come as it is used as the reason for huge 'workforces' in all Government Departments that 'cover' for the Bosses running other Business's on the side and swanning off on lavish Holidays with their Mia Noi's whenever they feel like it, all at the Taxpayers expense.   Thousands of uneeded Civil Servants are employed and given long paid holidays and a Pension, mainly just for 'being there', as many do nothing more than continuous runs during the day for Food and Drinks for the rest, just sit and watch it happening as you wait for hours in any Government run Office !

[BusyB]

7 hours ago, gp2002 said:

"So what is stopping the government from implementing digitization on a grand scale?"

 

Common sense, intelligence... I'll stop there ????????

Nepotism: jobs for the boys.

 

Patrimony: jobs for the family.

 

All tolerated, even wanted by the upper classes cos it keeps people off the unemployment rolls.

[BusyB]

6 minutes ago, trainman34014 said:

My Wife is Thai and a former Nurse for 25 years.  She will tell you that Thailand is very much a Third World Country and the 'Elite' that run the Country want it kept that way as it suits all their Corrupt behaviour and keeps the Sheeple Uneducated, Dumbed Down and no credible threat to them.

 

The Mountains of Paperwork will remain for Generations to come as it is used as the reason for huge 'workforces' in all Government Departments that 'cover' for the Bosses running other Business's on the side and swanning off on lavish Holidays with their Mia Noi's whenever they feel like it, all at the Taxpayers expense.   Thousands of uneeded Civil Servants are employed and given long paid holidays and a Pension, mainly just for 'being there', as many do nothing more than continuous runs during the day for Food and Drinks for the rest, just sit and watch it happening as you wait for hours in any Government run Office !

Not a bad life if you can get it though ;D

 

[Almer]

But it creates a lot of work for people who would not have a job, same as lottery why not put a terminal in every 7/11, because it would see many with No income 

[samtam]

6 hours ago, jacko45k said:

Very true, and as you say not just immigration in on this.... the banks need to have a copy of many things too. (I got a new passport). 

I just got a new passport yesterday. About to be picked up by my IMM agent for transferring of stamps. He said I had to go in person, but as I've just had eye surgery, and look a fright, a sweetner will take care of my absence. Once that's done, I'll begin the laborious process of informing the banks where I have accounts, and completing the screeds of paper to effect that, a joy I will delay as long as I can.

 

 

4 hours ago, nchuckle said:

As a U.K. expat here I have been able to 1) Renew a lease on my rented house there 2) Renew my driving licence (they lift a photograph from my passport simply by giving them the number 3) Conduct all banking  4) Apply for new credit cards 5) Submit my tax return 6) Administer my various pensions 7) Handle my investments including selling/buying shares .

All this on line (including electronic signatures) without producing a single sheet of paper .

Thailand's productivity figures in this area ,apart from wasted paper /storage must be appalling by comparison. It’s only the comparative low wages that ameliorates this.

Agree, this is the ideal. However, the turnaround on passports, (cif above), is nothing to be proud of, sadly. But I suppose I was relatively lucky, as it only took 7 weeks. My UKDL took an inordinate amount of time and the tracking, (it was posted by my brother) showed it sitting at some Royal Mail office in the ulu for about a month. Yes, I know RM is not a government department.

 

 

3 hours ago, SbuxPlease said:

My Thai colleagues get it too - they see the waste and inefficiency, but also think it's "normal" and "no one could ever change it", and "not my problem". When you can get a day off work just to visit the DLT, it's suddenly not so bad (if you hate your job and work for "the man").

 

So, like us farangs, they complain a bit but accept it as an unchangeable system.

 

The only thing that could really change this is enough of the population traveling around the world and seeing various other ways of doing things and deciding that it matters.

 

But, you have to understand that the ones who can travel like and "get it" will move to live in another country anyways.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

...or the ones who travel have a gofer to do the donkey work. That's how I operate, as much as possible here now.

Edited July 19, 2022 by samtam

[Burma Bill]

34 minutes ago, LikeItHot said:

It took you twenty years to figure out out?

With respect, not at all. Going back to earlier years there wasn't the bureaucratic hassle of recent years under Prayut. Then, it was WHO you knew, not what you needed to know!! With reference to visas, extending my annual retirement visa here in Cambodia is so simple and no bureaucracy. Go to an official agent (you do not deal directly with Immigration), present valid passport, one current p/p photo, proof of registration on FPCS and 300 US$. The agent completes the application form. Processing is done in Phnom Penh and passport with new visa extension returned in 10 working days.

[Eaglekott]

I think the answer to why they need the same copies of your papers to be filed year after year is that they have no clue where the papers you filed last year are, And if the think they know they are no way they can find them among all the other documents. So more easy to ask for new copies...

 

Probably they have cut the documents you filed last year in to smaller pieces and use the back side for notes.

[hotchilli]

Wed 6th went to the IO to do my marriage Non-O ext'n based on savings...

usual mountain of paperwork... [been married now 19 years the last 14 years resident here in Thailand]

Officer asked for more information.. updated government documents plus a map of my home location, and a complete second set of copies of everything.

Had to go to some local government offices so took time to get the info.

Returned to IO Mon 11th before the holiday break.

Not happy with the "google map I supplied with a pin on my house location.

Asked for a hand drawn map on the reverse... two copies.

Eventually excepted the paperwork.

Today had a visit at home from immigration, many questions and more copies later they went away happy.

Now wait to see if it's been excepted when I call the IO in a few days.

 

 

[kimamey]

7 hours ago, ezzra said:

Bureaucracy equal mountains of forms and more forms, double and triple of everything, Oh and don't forget the rubber stamps, every form must have few red/blue chops, all run by an army of pencil pushers.. remanences of the communist style books and record's keeping...

Ah yes the rubber stamps. My wife works in a government office so I'm used to seeing lots of  stamps but when we went to immigration for a visa extension and provide my signature at least 20 times the woman there had 4 large plastic boxes full of rubber stamps. And that was only the ones I could see. 

[kimamey]

14 minutes ago, hotchilli said:

Wed 6th went to the IO to do my marriage Non-O ext'n based on savings...

usual mountain of paperwork... [been married now 19 years the last 14 years resident here in Thailand]

Officer asked for more information.. updated government documents plus a map of my home location, and a complete second set of copies of everything.

Had to go to some local government offices so took time to get the info.

Returned to IO Mon 11th before the holiday break.

Not happy with the "google map I supplied with a pin on my house location.

Asked for a hand drawn map on the reverse... two copies.

Eventually excepted the paperwork.

Today had a visit at home from immigration, many questions and more copies later they went away happy.

Now wait to see if it's been excepted when I call the IO in a few days.

 

 

Our house is down a short shared driveway and we don't have a sign with the address either on the road or on our gate so my wife printed out the house number, put it in a plastic sleeve and tied it to the gate. Then we took pictures. Another time she wrote it on an old tile with a marker pen.

Thus time we had a visit from immigration and immigration police. I think there were 3 or 4 of them plus 2 people from the village to back us up. Oh and me but I think my only involvement was in the obligatory pictures. 

[kimamey]

I remember going to get our affirmation of freedom to marry some years ago. After visiting the embassy and getting the translation we handed in the papers to a guy who just took them one by one and without looking just picked them up again and put them in a tray or envelope. I think he may have counted them. Then we waited and were called into a room where there was a woman in uniform (almost certainly with a university degree) who just stamped each one without looking at them. My wife was in front of me and sat down but I didn't as by then the stamping was finished and we left. 

 

I think a lot of it is down to job creation. They seem to split jobs that could be done by one person to use more. 

[khunPer]

I have for many years been wondering where they file all these papers...????

 

When I apply for something as simple as an annual retirement extension - and I've been doing that since 2007 - I have to supply:

• Application for extension of stay with a passport size-photo (I'm also photographed, when I receive my extension)
• Copies of all pages in my passport
• Copies of all pages in my bankbook with deposit for my extension of stay
• Original bank statement and confirmation letter from my bank that I have enough funds
• Copy of my house book (if I didn't have that, then rental agreement and owners ID card)
• Print of Google Map showing where I live with address and coordinates printed in a white square box next to the place 
• Hand drawn map of where I live, so someone can find me
• Medical certificate from a hospital
• Signed statement that I will follow the rules for extension of stay in the Kingdom

The older my passport and bankbook becomes, the more copies; and all need to be signed and as portrait format - so the officer can flip through as pages in a book - if copied landscape I would have been send out to make new copies...

 

[kimamey]

1 hour ago, trainman34014 said:

My Wife is Thai and a former Nurse for 25 years.  She will tell you that Thailand is very much a Third World Country and the 'Elite' that run the Country want it kept that way as it suits all their Corrupt behaviour and keeps the Sheeple Uneducated, Dumbed Down and no credible threat to them.

 

The Mountains of Paperwork will remain for Generations to come as it is used as the reason for huge 'workforces' in all Government Departments that 'cover' for the Bosses running other Business's on the side and swanning off on lavish Holidays with their Mia Noi's whenever they feel like it, all at the Taxpayers expense.   Thousands of uneeded Civil Servants are employed and given long paid holidays and a Pension, mainly just for 'being there', as many do nothing more than continuous runs during the day for Food and Drinks for the rest, just sit and watch it happening as you wait for hours in any Government run Office !

My wife works in civil government and she gets 10 days holiday a year plus the national holidays so I'm not sure if the "long paid holidays" is accurate. 

As for getting food, they usually bring it with them but sometimes they can get what my wife refers to as "the maid" to get it although I haven't seen this recently. These are the women who clean, lock up ect.