Sattahip fire could have been avoided for an extra ฿200 a panel

[webfact]

 

After speaking to sound absorption suppliers, the dreadful fire at the Mountain B club in Sattahip could have been avoided by using non-flammable grade panels.

 

Apparently, the difference between the cheaper flammable and non-flammable panels was just THB200 per panel.

 

So tragically cutting back on the budget of building Mountain B has cost many lives and injured many more.

 

It is understood that the owners of “Mountain B” pub had asked for permission to be a restaurant, but later on decided to add a blackout without permission.

 

These materials used are suitable for sound absorption. They are commonly installed in hospitals, hotels, and recording rooms. including a pub bar or a place that needs silence.

Sound Absorption panels are believed to be the cause of the fire at the Mountain B pub in Sattahip.

It came from these sound-absorbing sponges installed on the ceiling and walls that make the fire spread faster.

 

According to a report by Thailand Post, https://thailand.postsen.com/live-style/amp/31648  they talked to Pinyada Jittapirak, a representative from Lucky Center Sealing Company Limited, an acoustic panel distribution company. 

 

They sell all types of sound-absorbing ceiling panels and have been in the industry for over 20 years, providing information on the many types of sound-absorbing discs.

The materials commonly used are all different varying in price.

 

Jittapira showed three materials, flame-retardant materials and non-flammable.

 

She had a white mineral sheet fiber, and a square polyester fiber sheet which both examples were non-flammable.

 

A third sheet was an ovarian sponge sheet and having studied the photos of the fire she said she knew that the club had used this paneling.

 

She said it absorbs 50-60% of the sound and although there was one roll still in stock, it is not sold anymore.

 

This type of sponge has two grades, flame retardant grade, priced at 400-600 baht/sheet, size 1.25×2 cm or a non-flammable grade at a more expensive price at 600-900 baht/sheet.

 

She said that when customers come to buy. It is recommended that you should not use flame retardant ovaries. 

 

The fire will burn as fast as a paper point when it is on. There are many other materials that can be used. 

There will also be a label indicating that it is resistant to fire.

 

 

Department of Chemistry findings

 

Meanwhile Assoc. Prof. Dr. Weerachai Phutthawong, Lecturer of the Department of Chemistry Kasetsart University provided information that the sound-absorbing panels used by Mountain B are flammable. 

 

He explained that it is a plastic polymer with a weak fuel and generates quite a lot of smoke, because it is organic.

 

In addition, as there was only one way out of the club, when there is smoke, people get disoriented and can’t go anywhere thus causing death

Also, this case is similar to the Santika Pub disaster in 2009, which resulted in killing 66 people and injuring scores more.

 

Since the fire Bangkok authorities have inspected many establishments and over 80 were told to close pending further inspections.

 

We can assume that authorities are now inspecting similar establishments across the country including Pattaya and Phuket’s nightlife districts too.

 

It is certainly a big wake up call to everyone.

 

To be honest most of us do not start inspecting the building materials in a restaurant or bar as we eat and enjoy a drink.

 

That said it will be now worthwhile checking the exits in future to check they are not locked.

 

 

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[Rampant Rabbit]

Sattahip fire could have been avoided

If govt  officials actually  did  their  jobs? inspections approvals etc Police  involvment instead  of Police  fund raiding......, doubtless the owner  pays them  the "monthly fee"

They  just dont care ...............like most  Thais..........rinse and repeat over and over, they learn  nothing and never  will, see  it  in their daily  driving habits, narrowly avoiding a  rear end  collison only  to repeatedly do the same 100  metres  donw the road.

[scubascuba3]

Shouldn't even be allowed to sell flammable panel's, seems madness

[Geoffggi]

What do the building codes stipulate ..................LOL

[wombat]

Ah yes..

That wonderful human malaise called hindsight.

[wombat]

3 hours ago, webfact said:

not use flame retardant ovaries. 

I'll just leave this right here.

[AndyFoxy]

Flame retardant ovaries??

[Kerryd]

"An extra 200 baht per panel" says it all.

They illegally modified a restaurant into a nightclub. I highly doubt they were looking at doing a quality job of it.

I suspect it was their plan all along - as there is already a large "Mountain" bar/bistro next door to where this place was (one of those places with a high, open, corrugated tin sheet roof).
The new "restaurant" appears to have been specifically built to be a low, enclosed roof kind of building. The kind you can use air-conditioners in because you aren't cooling a huge open, empty ceiling space.

And once they got their "restaurant" license, they probably went straight into turning the place into a nightclub.

Google maps shows the "restaurant" was under construction in Feb 2022 and the news articles say the nightclub had only been open a couple of months so it's not like they started a restaurant and weren't getting any business so they made the switch to become a nightclub.

They knew they couldn't get a license for a nightclub due to the area they were in. So they pretended they were a restaurant instead. 

Hence the use of the soundproofing panels, to try and keep the noise down so it wouldn't be as obvious from the outside. The bar/bistro next door seems to be a busy spot so a large number of vehicles around there wouldn't attract any "official" attention as it could be assumed they were customers at the two restaurants.

I'm curious though, does the "flame resistant" soundproofing do a better job (at soundproofing) than the "inflammable" soundproofing ? One would assume that the more expensive option would do a better job but the extra expense may be due to the inflammable materials used and not from being a better sound reducing option.

And this isn't the first place to burn down due to the material used. Last year (Aug 2021) there was a place right next to the Courthouse in Jomtien that burned down. The Fairy Sweet Village restaurant. 2nd time in less than a year that it had caught on fire actually (the first time being in Sept 2020).
From the news article about that fire:
"I turned on a switch before there was a bang and a fire broke out, spreading quickly across the roof of the building due to foam material used.”

In that case, the foam material was mostly used for decoration, not soundproofing. Probably not even "flame resistant" foam.

[Kerryd]

5 minutes ago, AndyFoxy said:

Flame retardant ovaries??

I'm guessing a poor Google translation (and proof-read).

 

The original article in the OP is from a Thai site (pptvhd36.com/) which was translated and posted on "Thailand Posts English" (thailand.postsen.com) and then copy/pasted into the OP.

The post on the "English" site uses "ovaries" but I think it is supposed to be "sponge".

Google translate comes up with "ovaries" if I past the entire sentence in, but changes to "sponge" if I delete some of the sentence.

[malibukid]

1 hour ago, Geoffggi said:

What do the building codes stipulate ..................LOL

remember where you are., land of S&^$

[jacko45k]

4 hours ago, webfact said:

Apparently, the difference between the cheaper flammable and non-flammable panels was just THB200 per panel.

I am surprised they even sell and stock flammable ones.....

[DUNROAMIN]

Would not have made any difference if were only 10B extra, mindset here, cheap, cheap, cheap. 

[sawadee1947]

Not surprising.

It's Thailand!

Safety? What's that?

????☹️????

[spidermike007]

This is precisely why in many nations there are inspection teams, who visit these public venues to make sure shortcuts like these were not taken. Lives could have been saved. 

 

So who is to blame? Both the owners and the authorities. Equally. 

[thailand49]

On top of the material where and why the spark?   Electrical? 

[Tropposurfer]

How terribly sad and despicable too. Try to imagine the terror of the folks who died and those who were burnt and escaped with their lives!!?

This issue of non-retardant claddings and interior panelling fit-outs is a worldwide issue and the misuse of improper materials is not unique to LOS mores the pity (and outrage).

The issues of owners and managers of businesses where fire doors are locked, obstructed, covered/obscured by heavy blockout curtains, fire stairs (if existent) completely inadequate to codes, no or partial weak sprinkler systems. The list of fire safety violations and derelictions goes on, and are not peculiar nor particular to LOS. 

 

Grenfell in England, similar (but less loss of life) catastrophe on east coast Australia not long ago. 

 

In lieu of that horrific, avoidable tragedy in England and a smaller one in Oz a short time later Oz officials inspected and announced that there were hundreds upon hundreds of high rise buildings in Australia clad externally in the exact same type/groups of flammable claddings on buildings as Grenfell.

I can only imagine how many places in LOS are like this illegally categorised and operating club.

 

The issues of non-compliance, shoddy and improper regulations allowing fitment of such materials to both internal and external building fit-outs is common across the globe even in so-called first world nation with perceived high-regulation standards, along with blinkered/poor building inspection procedures, poor and confusing regulations e.g. open to interpretation rather than fixed clear guidelines these avoidable mass incinerations will continue and those responsible will be inconvenienced not one jot, and get off Scott-free.

 

Edited August 8, 2022 by Tropposurfer

[JonnyF]

2 hours ago, Geoffggi said:

What do the building codes stipulate ..................LOL

They stipulate that any sub standard materials must be accompanied by a brown envelope to the building's inspector.

[law ling]

1. Wow, a bit of background checking and investigative journalism here! - well done.

 

2. Wouldn't need soundproffing at all for it's approved restaurant purpose. Seems like the well-trodden pathway here is: get approval for A, and then just do B.

[DekDaeng]

2 hours ago, Kerryd said:

"An extra 200 baht per panel" says it all.

They illegally modified a restaurant into a nightclub. I highly doubt they were looking at doing a quality job of it.

I suspect it was their plan all along - as there is already a large "Mountain" bar/bistro next door to where this place was (one of those places with a high, open, corrugated tin sheet roof).
The new "restaurant" appears to have been specifically built to be a low, enclosed roof kind of building. The kind you can use air-conditioners in because you aren't cooling a huge open, empty ceiling space.

And once they got their "restaurant" license, they probably went straight into turning the place into a nightclub.

Google maps shows the "restaurant" was under construction in Feb 2022 and the news articles say the nightclub had only been open a couple of months so it's not like they started a restaurant and weren't getting any business so they made the switch to become a nightclub.

They knew they couldn't get a license for a nightclub due to the area they were in. So they pretended they were a restaurant instead. 

Hence the use of the soundproofing panels, to try and keep the noise down so it wouldn't be as obvious from the outside. The bar/bistro next door seems to be a busy spot so a large number of vehicles around there wouldn't attract any "official" attention as it could be assumed they were customers at the two restaurants.

I'm curious though, does the "flame resistant" soundproofing do a better job (at soundproofing) than the "inflammable" soundproofing ? One would assume that the more expensive option would do a better job but the extra expense may be due to the inflammable materials used and not from being a better sound reducing option.

And this isn't the first place to burn down due to the material used. Last year (Aug 2021) there was a place right next to the Courthouse in Jomtien that burned down. The Fairy Sweet Village restaurant. 2nd time in less than a year that it had caught on fire actually (the first time being in Sept 2020).
From the news article about that fire:
"I turned on a switch before there was a bang and a fire broke out, spreading quickly across the roof of the building due to foam material used.”

In that case, the foam material was mostly used for decoration, not soundproofing. Probably not even "flame resistant" foam.

The Material that was used should be renamed 'VoompNapalm'

 

[austhai]

2 hours ago, Geoffggi said:

What do the building codes stipulate ..................LOL

Unfortunately as this place & many thai after hour venues are not legally licensed as a club, they have not submitted engineer approved & checked reports. Even now they sent 300 cops to check licensed clubs throughout the district where the big ones are legit. They need tom check all the ones that are not & just paying to leave alone. Even all the unlicensed & unhygienic restaurants dont get checked, but the licensed ones get hammered on the codes regularly. Nothing will change. 

[Jaybott]

This fire is why I prefer open air beer bars.

[Archie Baker]

It's called "Building Regulations"  and law.  Compensation is already set by the governor which is not even enough to cremate the dead let yet alone compensate the families. 

 

God bless those who suffered and lost their lives for the sake of stupidity and ignorance. 

 

 

[Eric Loh]

3 hours ago, Geoffggi said:

What do the building codes stipulate ..................LOL

Thalland building codes are comprehensive and in line with most standards. Unfortunately you can't say the same with the enforcement. Besides sound absorbing panels, timber panels & structures should have the highest standard for Spread of Flame. This incident will be footnote in a few weeks.  

See Section 2 - Fire resistance standards for construction materials & components. 

https://openjicareport.jica.go.jp/pdf/11710423_02.pdf

[DUNROAMIN]

1 hour ago, spidermike007 said:

This is precisely why in many nations there are inspection teams, who visit these public venues to make sure shortcuts like these were not taken. Lives could have been saved. 

 

So who is to blame? Both the owners and the authorities. Equally. 

Lets not forget the corrupt BIB.

[BadSpottedDog]

While these panels did cause the fire to spread, it almost surely started due to Thai electrical. This is something we have battled the entire time we've lived here. With outlets exploding, no ground, and so many other issues.
 

[tomacht8]

1 hour ago, thailand49 said:

On top of the material where and why the spark?   Electrical? 

From PNews:

They reportedly mentioned that there was an electric problem yesterday, so they called an electrician to fix the lighting system above the ceiling. The police then would continue the investigation on whether these repairs were the cause of the fire or not.

 

Also, a lot of stage lights, which get very hot when in use, were installed very close to the ceiling with the combustible insulation mats.

 

Probably multiple installation errors at once that led to this tragedy.

Edited August 8, 2022 by tomacht8

[shackleton]

Looks like should have but could have excuses now coming up 

Hindsight is a wonderful thing after the event 

Save money corrupt officials manager  are to blame for the building in the first place being built 

[newnative]

6 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

Shouldn't even be allowed to sell flammable panel's, seems madness

I was just going to text the same thing.  Madness, indeed.  Take them off the market already so customers don't keep making the cheap, dangerous, deadly choice.

[DPKANKAN]

4 hours ago, wombat said:

Ah yes..

That wonderful human malaise called hindsight.

Or the builder saving 200 baht per panel!!!????????????????????????????????

[Bangkok Barry]

1 hour ago, BadSpottedDog said:

While these panels did cause the fire to spread, it almost surely started due to Thai electrical. This is something we have battled the entire time we've lived here. With outlets exploding, no ground, and so many other issues.
 

As mentioned above, someone had been there fixing a power problem. The place had only been open a few weeks, FFsake. There are three things that Thailand should be forbidden from getting involved with - electrics, driving and government website planning.

Having said that, I was working in India a few years ago and the arena electrician tried to force a round Euro-style plug into an American-style socket.