Thailand abstains in UN vote condemning Russia’s “illegal referenda” in Ukraine

coolcarer · October 16, 2022

20 minutes ago, connda said:

Look at Saudi Arabia. MBS didn't bend a knee to Biden and agree to forestall oil production cuts until after the mid-term elections.
So now that Saudi Arabia failed to bow to the political whims of a US president? They are going to sanction Saudi Arabia.

It's not difficult to see why non-aligned countries world-wide are willing to band together in economic and security alliances to keep from become a target of the collective West. Thailand included.

400 million USD humanitarian aid to Ukraine always helps

https://www.reuters.com/world/saudi-arabia-announces-400-mln-humanitarian-aid-ukraine-2022-10-14/

coolcarer · October 16, 2022

30 minutes ago, connda said:

When Thais benefit from trade agreements including uninterrupted, market-valued energy while Europeans freeze, the UK government pukes, and the US deals with "the Evil Putin induced runaway inflation" ????, and as moderate (rational) democrats 'WalkAway' on Nov 8th - Thailand as a whole will be in good shape and the average Thai citizen will not suffer austerity and massive price increases in order to prop up Western Geo-political goals of creating regime change in Russia (and China). When my 'leaders' tell my I must suffer and enjoy extreme austerity and highly inflated prices as the mega-wealthy seek to control all resources planet-wide - even if they need to invade countries (a euphemism for bringing so-called 'democracy' to the unwashed people of color in the ME/NA/Global South as these philanthropists shoulder the "White Man's Burden"), bomb them into the stone-age and steal their resources for the benefit of the West.

Those who 'abstained' understand they they too are under a constant threat of US sanctions and Western NGO sponsored ~~democracy~~ regime change. Study history since WWII and find that destabilizing sovereign nations is the US's SOP. As Henry Kissinger so aptly stated, "The US has neither friends or enemies, just interests." And they are willing to destroy weaker countries to further their goals. And Thailand fits the bill of a "weaker country."

Those countries who abstained (or voted "no"), including India and China, make up about 1/2 of the worlds global population. That's one heck of a trading block. As Western standards of living implode, Asian and the those of the Global South are on the rise - slowly but surely.

So I commend Thailand for their choice. It's the choice to stay neutral, to stay out of the fray, and to build their economic alliances with other developing countries on the rise as opposed to the dying colonial empires, i.e., the UK, US, and EU. Those of us who remain in Thailand benefit from that neutrality.

While you do that, in the meantime The Ukrainians are paying with their blood. They will carry on fighting for their own country, a sovereign nation that was illegally invaded by Putin and his war of choice.

connda · October 17, 2022

21 hours ago, coolcarer said:

While you do that, in the meantime The Ukrainians are paying with their blood. They will carry on fighting for their own country, a sovereign nation that was illegally invaded by Putin and his war of choice.

There are wars all over the globe, many fully backed by the US, where people are "paying with their blood." It doesn't stop the weapon makers of the world from supplying both sides with the armament to kill each other - for profit.

By the way - if China created a military alliance with South and Central American countries, and Mexico was all that stood between that alliance and the United States - I'd return to the US to support military efforts to stop the aggressive offensive, in Mexico, before it reached the US borders.
"But that's different!"
No it's not.

War is just politics by other means. But when it crashes against your country's own borders (in this case a NATO-back proxy creating an existential threat to the Russian homeland while Western leaders openly advocating for the overthrow of the Russian government)?
Well, Russia is now responding... And Russian soldiers, and civilians, are "paying with their blood" too.

Ukraine refuses negotiations. Russia doesn't particular care anymore either. So?
We'll all see how it shakes out by April of 2023.

connda · October 17, 2022

Just now, connda said:

There are wars all over the globe, many fully backed by the US, where people are "paying with their blood." It doesn't stop the weapon makers of the world from supplying both sides with the armament to kill each other - for profit.

By the way - if China created a military alliance with South and Central American countries, and Mexico was all that stood between that alliance and the United States - I'd return to the US to support military efforts to stop the aggressive offensive, in Mexico, before it reached the US borders.
"But that's different!"
No it's not.

War is just politics by other means. But when it crashes against your country's own borders (in this case a NATO-back proxy creating an existential threat to the Russian homeland while Western leaders openly advocating for the overthrow of the Russian government)?
Well, Russia is now responding... And Russian soldiers, and civilians, are "paying with their blood" too.

Ukraine refuses negotiations. Russia doesn't particular care anymore either. So?
We'll all see how it shakes out by April of 2023.

In the meanwhile Thailand has the right idea - Stay Neutral.

Artisi · October 17, 2022

1 minute ago, connda said:

There are wars all over the globe, many fully backed by the US, where people are "paying with their blood." It doesn't stop the weapon makers of the world from supplying both sides with the armament to kill each other - for profit.

By the way - if China created a military alliance with South and Central American countries, and Mexico was all that stood between that alliance and the United States - I'd return to the US to support military efforts to stop the aggressive offensive, in Mexico, before it reached the US borders.
"But that's different!"
No it's not.

War is just politics by other means. But when it crashes against your country's own borders (in this case a NATO-back proxy creating an existential threat to the Russian homeland while Western leaders openly advocating for the overthrow of the Russian government)?
Well, Russia is now responding... And Russian soldiers, and civilians, are "paying with their blood" too.

Ukraine refuses negotiations. Russia doesn't particular care anymore either. So?
We'll all see how it shakes out by April of 2023.

My understanding is that Ukraine has said loud and clear, they are prepared to negotiate but not with Putin and rightly so as it's blatantly clear what Putin's agenda is.

connda · October 17, 2022

1 hour ago, Artisi said:

My understanding is that Ukraine has said loud and clear, they are prepared to negotiate but not with Putin and rightly so as it's blatantly clear what Putin's agenda is.

The Russia government isn't 'Putin' any more then the France is Macron, the UK is Truss (or soon to be Sunak), Germany is Scholz, the democratic (unelected) European Union is Von der Lyden, the US is Biden, or the Ukraine is Zelensky.

Any functional, modern government in totality is not its figurehead leader.
The West has openly stated its goal of regime change, government overthrow, and partitioning of Russia. How does Russia perceive that? As it should - an existential threat. I can't blame them. It's standard-operating-procedure in the West. Look at Saudi Arabia. A few weeks ago the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia was the USA's best friend. But because Mohammed bin Salman Al Saud failed to obey Joe Biden's instructions to convince OPEC not cut oil production before the US mid-term elections? Now the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia is no longer a 'friend' and more than likely will be sanctioned - right along with all of the USA's other OPEC friends..... who are no longer friends. From "friends" to "enemies" in two weeks. That's how the US and the West works. "Give us your resources when we want them and at the price we dictate - or else!"

What would you think if Russia's precondition for negotiations was the removal of Zelensky? Biden? Macron? Scholz? Truss? Ursula Von der Lyden?
What if Russia openly called for 'regime change and partitioning' of France, or Germany, or the UK, or the European Union, or the US?

Reality.
Negotiations will happen when one side or the other is beaten or are close to surrendering. My guess is one side will capitulate by early next year. Time will tell.

Like Thailand - I see all sides and chose to remain neutral. I've got no dog in this fight, but I'm glad I'm living in 'neutral' Thailand right now. And I'm glad Thailand chose neutrality.

I spent my 8 full years in the US military when I actually felt that the old Soviet Union posed an real threat to the entire world. Under those circumstances, I'd do it again. Now I just follow the Geo-politics and comment on the never-ending insanity of war, which in my humble opinion is the bane of mankind. Man has been killing each other since they could pick up a rock or stick, and bash another man's head it - and then take the dead man's possessions.
And yet counter to that psychopathic, genocide impulse of many (most?) of mankind, there are those who embody the epitome of compassion, kindness, and selflessness.
This reality in which we live is quite The Crucible. But I wax philosophical.

Negotiations will happen when that which is within the crucible melts and can be reforged into a new paradigm. Until then? Pump the bellows.

Edited October 17, 2022 by connda

connda · October 17, 2022

For everyone listening enjoyment. Nothing has changed since the 1950s. That's for sure.

They're rioting in Africa
They're starving in Spain
There's hurricanes in Florida
And Texas needs rain

The whole world is festering
With unhappy souls
The French hate the Germans
The Germans hate the Poles

Italians hate the Yugoslavs
South Africans hate the Dutch
And I don't like anybody very much!

bobbin · October 17, 2022

1 hour ago, connda said:

The Russia government isn't 'Putin' any more then the France is Macron, the UK is Truss (or soon to be Sunak), Germany is Scholz, the democratic (unelected) European Union is Von der Lyden, the US is Biden, or the Ukraine is Zelensky.

When you are discussing totalitarian leaders your assertion does not hold up..

Do not confuse the decision makers with the grunts tasked with carrying out the decisions made by one man.. with assorted flunkies in the background nodding their heads.

Edited October 17, 2022 by bobbin

Bkk Brian · October 17, 2022

1 hour ago, connda said:

What would you think if Russia's precondition for negotiations was the removal of Zelensky? Biden? Macron? Scholz? Truss? Ursula Von der Lyden?
What if Russia openly called for 'regime change and partitioning' of France, or Germany, or the UK, or the European Union, or the US?

Vladimir Putin’s disdain for Ukraine’s president Volodymyr Zelensky reached its apex on February 25 in a bizarre speech, where he referred to the leadership of Ukraine as “a gang of drug addicts and neo-Nazis”. Putin also spoke about his desire for a new regime in the country.

Artisi · October 17, 2022

5 hours ago, connda said:

The Russia government isn't 'Putin' any more then the France is Macron, the UK is Truss (or soon to be Sunak), Germany is Scholz, the democratic (unelected) European Union is Von der Lyden, the US is Biden, or the Ukraine is Zelensky.

Any functional, modern government in totality is not its figurehead leader.
The West has openly stated its goal of regime change, government overthrow, and partitioning of Russia. How does Russia perceive that? As it should - an existential threat. I can't blame them. It's standard-operating-procedure in the West. Look at Saudi Arabia. A few weeks ago the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia was the USA's best friend. But because Mohammed bin Salman Al Saud failed to obey Joe Biden's instructions to convince OPEC not cut oil production before the US mid-term elections? Now the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia is no longer a 'friend' and more than likely will be sanctioned - right along with all of the USA's other OPEC friends..... who are no longer friends. From "friends" to "enemies" in two weeks. That's how the US and the West works. "Give us your resources when we want them and at the price we dictate - or else!"

What would you think if Russia's precondition for negotiations was the removal of Zelensky? Biden? Macron? Scholz? Truss? Ursula Von der Lyden?
What if Russia openly called for 'regime change and partitioning' of France, or Germany, or the UK, or the European Union, or the US?

Reality.
Negotiations will happen when one side or the other is beaten or are close to surrendering. My guess is one side will capitulate by early next year. Time will tell.

Like Thailand - I see all sides and chose to remain neutral. I've got no dog in this fight, but I'm glad I'm living in 'neutral' Thailand right now. And I'm glad Thailand chose neutrality.

I spent my 8 full years in the US military when I actually felt that the old Soviet Union posed an real threat to the entire world. Under those circumstances, I'd do it again. Now I just follow the Geo-politics and comment on the never-ending insanity of war, which in my humble opinion is the bane of mankind. Man has been killing each other since they could pick up a rock or stick, and bash another man's head it - and then take the dead man's possessions.
And yet counter to that psychopathic, genocide impulse of many (most?) of mankind, there are those who embody the epitome of compassion, kindness, and selflessness.
This reality in which we live is quite The Crucible. But I wax philosophical.

Negotiations will happen when that which is within the crucible melts and can be reforged into a new paradigm. Until then? Pump the bellows.

Your argument is flawed on too many points to even start a rebuttal and seems as if I'm not the only one with that opinion.

Puccini · October 17, 2022

8 hours ago, connda said:

...Ukraine refuses negotiations...

To say that the Ukraine refuses negotiations is one of looking at it. Here is another way:

Quote

...Vladimir Putin's chief envoy on Ukraine told the Russian leader as the war began that he had struck a provisional deal with Kyiv that would satisfy Russia's demand that Ukraine stay out of NATO, but Putin rejected it and pressed ahead with his military campaign, according to three people close to the Russian leadership...

Source: https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/exclusive-war-began-putin-rejected-ukraine-peace-deal-recommended-by-his-aide-2022-09-14/

...and this:

Quote

Putin's conditions for ending the war

According to the newspaper ABC, Putin's conditions for peace are as follows:

1. Ukraine doesn't enter NATO and maintains a position of neutrality

2. Crimea is recognised as a territory of Russia

3. The independence is granted to the people's republics of Donetsk and Lugansk

4. Ukraine demilitarises and surrenders any weapons which constitute a threat to Russia

5. Ukraine goes through a process of denazification, which would essentially constitute a change of government based on Putin's previous words about the Ukrainian leadership.

6. Russian becomes the second official language of Ukraine and any laws which prohibit its use are repealed.

Source: https://www.marca.com/en/lifestyle/world-news/2022/03/16/6231e91022601ddc368b4593.html

Edited October 17, 2022 by Puccini
added one more citation

heybruce · October 17, 2022

15 hours ago, connda said:

There are wars all over the globe, many fully backed by the US, where people are "paying with their blood." It doesn't stop the weapon makers of the world from supplying both sides with the armament to kill each other - for profit.

By the way - if China created a military alliance with South and Central American countries, and Mexico was all that stood between that alliance and the United States - I'd return to the US to support military efforts to stop the aggressive offensive, in Mexico, before it reached the US borders.
"But that's different!"
No it's not.

War is just politics by other means. But when it crashes against your country's own borders (in this case a NATO-back proxy creating an existential threat to the Russian homeland while Western leaders openly advocating for the overthrow of the Russian government)?
Well, Russia is now responding... And Russian soldiers, and civilians, are "paying with their blood" too.

Ukraine refuses negotiations. Russia doesn't particular care anymore either. So?
We'll all see how it shakes out by April of 2023.

"There are wars all over the globe, many fully backed by the US..."

What wars are fully backed by the United States? US support for Ukraine is the only one I'm aware of.

heybruce · October 17, 2022

14 hours ago, connda said:

The Russia government isn't 'Putin' any more then the France is Macron, the UK is Truss (or soon to be Sunak), Germany is Scholz, the democratic (unelected) European Union is Von der Lyden, the US is Biden, or the Ukraine is Zelensky.

Any functional, modern government in totality is not its figurehead leader.
The West has openly stated its goal of regime change, government overthrow, and partitioning of Russia. How does Russia perceive that? As it should - an existential threat. I can't blame them. It's standard-operating-procedure in the West. Look at Saudi Arabia. A few weeks ago the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia was the USA's best friend. But because Mohammed bin Salman Al Saud failed to obey Joe Biden's instructions to convince OPEC not cut oil production before the US mid-term elections? Now the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia is no longer a 'friend' and more than likely will be sanctioned - right along with all of the USA's other OPEC friends..... who are no longer friends. From "friends" to "enemies" in two weeks. That's how the US and the West works. "Give us your resources when we want them and at the price we dictate - or else!"

What would you think if Russia's precondition for negotiations was the removal of Zelensky? Biden? Macron? Scholz? Truss? Ursula Von der Lyden?
What if Russia openly called for 'regime change and partitioning' of France, or Germany, or the UK, or the European Union, or the US?

Reality.
Negotiations will happen when one side or the other is beaten or are close to surrendering. My guess is one side will capitulate by early next year. Time will tell.

Like Thailand - I see all sides and chose to remain neutral. I've got no dog in this fight, but I'm glad I'm living in 'neutral' Thailand right now. And I'm glad Thailand chose neutrality.

I spent my 8 full years in the US military when I actually felt that the old Soviet Union posed an real threat to the entire world. Under those circumstances, I'd do it again. Now I just follow the Geo-politics and comment on the never-ending insanity of war, which in my humble opinion is the bane of mankind. Man has been killing each other since they could pick up a rock or stick, and bash another man's head it - and then take the dead man's possessions.
And yet counter to that psychopathic, genocide impulse of many (most?) of mankind, there are those who embody the epitome of compassion, kindness, and selflessness.
This reality in which we live is quite The Crucible. But I wax philosophical.

Negotiations will happen when that which is within the crucible melts and can be reforged into a new paradigm. Until then? Pump the bellows.

"The West has openly stated its goal of regime change, government overthrow, and partitioning of Russia."

What western nation has stated it wants regime change, etc. in Russia? Use credible sources, please.

thaibeachlovers · October 17, 2022

On 10/13/2022 at 5:24 PM, plus7 said:

Hi,

Thailand is not only a beach and Russia is not only tourists.

That's right. Thailand is also temples and Grand Palace and night markets and kantoke and massage etc.

Lots of Russian tourists spending money in LOS. People can't eat western morality, and will go for whatever pays the bills.

thaibeachlovers · October 17, 2022

9 hours ago, Artisi said:

Your argument is flawed on too many points to even start a rebuttal and seems as if I'm not the only one with that opinion.

His argument seems reasonable to me, and certainly more reasonable that of those baying to join the fight of something that does not even concern Thailand.

On another thread about defending oneself against a bad person the consensus was that it's better to avoid getting into a fight, and likewise Thailand is better off not getting involved in other people's wars.

Of what benefit to Thailand is supporting the Americans/ Europeans over Ukraine?

thaibeachlovers · October 17, 2022

On 10/16/2022 at 7:30 PM, coolcarer said:

While you do that, in the meantime The Ukrainians are paying with their blood. They will carry on fighting for their own country, a sovereign nation that was illegally invaded by Putin and his war of choice.

The topic is about the vote, not about Ukrainians dying. Whatever Thailand voted is irrelevant to the outcome on the ground in Ukraine as Putin isn't going to give up because Thailand voted with the US.

thaibeachlovers · October 17, 2022

14 hours ago, connda said:

The Russia government isn't 'Putin' any more then the France is Macron, the UK is Truss (or soon to be Sunak), Germany is Scholz, the democratic (unelected) European Union is Von der Lyden, the US is Biden, or the Ukraine is Zelensky.

Any functional, modern government in totality is not its figurehead leader.
The West has openly stated its goal of regime change, government overthrow, and partitioning of Russia. How does Russia perceive that? As it should - an existential threat. I can't blame them. It's standard-operating-procedure in the West. Look at Saudi Arabia. A few weeks ago the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia was the USA's best friend. But because Mohammed bin Salman Al Saud failed to obey Joe Biden's instructions to convince OPEC not cut oil production before the US mid-term elections? Now the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia is no longer a 'friend' and more than likely will be sanctioned - right along with all of the USA's other OPEC friends..... who are no longer friends. From "friends" to "enemies" in two weeks. That's how the US and the West works. "Give us your resources when we want them and at the price we dictate - or else!"

What would you think if Russia's precondition for negotiations was the removal of Zelensky? Biden? Macron? Scholz? Truss? Ursula Von der Lyden?
What if Russia openly called for 'regime change and partitioning' of France, or Germany, or the UK, or the European Union, or the US?

Reality.
Negotiations will happen when one side or the other is beaten or are close to surrendering. My guess is one side will capitulate by early next year. Time will tell.

Like Thailand - I see all sides and chose to remain neutral. I've got no dog in this fight, but I'm glad I'm living in 'neutral' Thailand right now. And I'm glad Thailand chose neutrality.

I spent my 8 full years in the US military when I actually felt that the old Soviet Union posed an real threat to the entire world. Under those circumstances, I'd do it again. Now I just follow the Geo-politics and comment on the never-ending insanity of war, which in my humble opinion is the bane of mankind. Man has been killing each other since they could pick up a rock or stick, and bash another man's head it - and then take the dead man's possessions.
And yet counter to that psychopathic, genocide impulse of many (most?) of mankind, there are those who embody the epitome of compassion, kindness, and selflessness.
This reality in which we live is quite The Crucible. But I wax philosophical.

Negotiations will happen when that which is within the crucible melts and can be reforged into a new paradigm. Until then? Pump the bellows.

Excellent post.

heybruce · October 17, 2022

17 hours ago, connda said:

The Russia government isn't 'Putin' any more then the France is Macron, the UK is Truss (or soon to be Sunak), Germany is Scholz, the democratic (unelected) European Union is Von der Lyden, the US is Biden, or the Ukraine is Zelensky.

Any functional, modern government in totality is not its figurehead leader.
The West has openly stated its goal of regime change, government overthrow, and partitioning of Russia. How does Russia perceive that? As it should - an existential threat. I can't blame them. It's standard-operating-procedure in the West. Look at Saudi Arabia. A few weeks ago the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia was the USA's best friend. But because Mohammed bin Salman Al Saud failed to obey Joe Biden's instructions to convince OPEC not cut oil production before the US mid-term elections? Now the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia is no longer a 'friend' and more than likely will be sanctioned - right along with all of the USA's other OPEC friends..... who are no longer friends. From "friends" to "enemies" in two weeks. That's how the US and the West works. "Give us your resources when we want them and at the price we dictate - or else!"

What would you think if Russia's precondition for negotiations was the removal of Zelensky? Biden? Macron? Scholz? Truss? Ursula Von der Lyden?
What if Russia openly called for 'regime change and partitioning' of France, or Germany, or the UK, or the European Union, or the US?

Reality.
Negotiations will happen when one side or the other is beaten or are close to surrendering. My guess is one side will capitulate by early next year. Time will tell.

Like Thailand - I see all sides and chose to remain neutral. I've got no dog in this fight, but I'm glad I'm living in 'neutral' Thailand right now. And I'm glad Thailand chose neutrality.

I spent my 8 full years in the US military when I actually felt that the old Soviet Union posed an real threat to the entire world. Under those circumstances, I'd do it again. Now I just follow the Geo-politics and comment on the never-ending insanity of war, which in my humble opinion is the bane of mankind. Man has been killing each other since they could pick up a rock or stick, and bash another man's head it - and then take the dead man's possessions.
And yet counter to that psychopathic, genocide impulse of many (most?) of mankind, there are those who embody the epitome of compassion, kindness, and selflessness.
This reality in which we live is quite The Crucible. But I wax philosophical.

Negotiations will happen when that which is within the crucible melts and can be reforged into a new paradigm. Until then? Pump the bellows.

"The Russia government isn't 'Putin' any more then the France is Macron, the UK is Truss (or soon to be Sunak), Germany is Scholz, the democratic (unelected) European Union is Von der Lyden, the US is Biden, or the Ukraine is Zelensky."

Putin speaks for Russia, and arrests, exiles or kills all prominent voices that challenge him. The same is not true for Macron, Truss, Scholz, Von der Lyden, Biden or Zelensky.

BonMot · October 18, 2022

On 10/15/2022 at 11:30 PM, coolcarer said:

While you do that, in the meantime The Ukrainians are paying with their blood. They will carry on fighting for their own country, a sovereign nation that was illegally invaded by Putin and his war of choice.

...and defended entirely with western and more specifically US tax money. Money that it cannot afford, money that is borrowed from the international banking cartel. Money that has been created out of thin air and is some, if not much of the root of inflation. Money that has been diverted from needs of US health care, infrastructure and investment.

But the money is just one level of stupidity. The sanctions and energy caps bring the insanity to an entirely different level. Brandon's cancelation of oil drilling just fuel to the fire. Oh, the pun so ironic..

I don't understand why everyone on the planet cannot see this clearly. These sorts of wars have been going on our entire lives and if your memory so short ... well, Iraq, Syria, Yemen, Afghanistan...

So, let the Ukrainians fight with their blood and your personal donations. Maybe leave Thailand and go volunteer in the Ukrainian rag tag army ????

Brandon lost Afghanistan he sure isn't going to be victorious against the bear and winter is coming.

Funny how libs love to spend others money, know what's best for other people always expressed through virtue signaling and theft of public coffers

Thailand made the right choice, chiefly protecting its own interests. US, UK and EU obviously doing precisely that.

Edited October 18, 2022 by BonMot

Phoenix Rising · October 18, 2022

On 10/17/2022 at 11:33 AM, connda said:

There are wars all over the globe, many fully backed by the US, where people are "paying with their blood." It doesn't stop the weapon makers of the world from supplying both sides with the armament to kill each other - for profit.

By the way - if China created a military alliance with South and Central American countries, and Mexico was all that stood between that alliance and the United States - I'd return to the US to support military efforts to stop the aggressive offensive, in Mexico, before it reached the US borders.
"But that's different!"
No it's not.

War is just politics by other means. But when it crashes against your country's own borders (in this case a NATO-back proxy creating an existential threat to the Russian homeland while Western leaders openly advocating for the overthrow of the Russian government)?
Well, Russia is now responding... And Russian soldiers, and civilians, are "paying with their blood" too.

Ukraine refuses negotiations. Russia doesn't particular care anymore either. So?
We'll all see how it shakes out by April of 2023.

Your hatred for the US makes you ignore the dictator Putin, the suffering of the Ukrainian people and the fact that Putin MUST lose this shameful war.

Shame on you.

Jingthing · October 18, 2022

2 hours ago, BonMot said:

...and defended entirely with western and more specifically US tax money. Money that it cannot afford, money that is borrowed from the international banking cartel. Money that has been created out of thin air and is some, if not much of the root of inflation. Money that has been diverted from needs of US health care, infrastructure and investment.

But the money is just one level of stupidity. The sanctions and energy caps bring the insanity to an entirely different level. Brandon's cancelation of oil drilling just fuel to the fire. Oh, the pun so ironic..

I don't understand why everyone on the planet cannot see this clearly. These sorts of wars have been going on our entire lives and if your memory so short ... well, Iraq, Syria, Yemen, Afghanistan...

So, let the Ukrainians fight with their blood and your personal donations. Maybe leave Thailand and go volunteer in the Ukrainian rag tag army ????

Brandon lost Afghanistan he sure isn't going to be victorious against the bear and winter is coming.

Funny how libs love to spend others money, know what's best for other people always expressed through virtue signaling and theft of public coffers

Thailand made the right choice, chiefly protecting its own interests. US, UK and EU obviously doing precisely that.

I don't know this "Brandon" you speak of. Is he Chad's cousin?

This war is about trying to preserve the rules based system put into effect, not perfectly but still happening, after World War 2.

If war criminal mass murdering fascist dictator nuclear bully Putin is allowed to win, that's over.

This is already a world war (more or less) and people with short term isolationist views like American fascists Ford and Lindbergh were againt getting involved in a European war back then too. Those types were wrong then, and the far right isolationists like Tucker Carlson and Marjorie Taylore Greene are wrong now. Ukraine must win. Putin must lose. The west cannot accept any other outcome and the good news is at least for now Ukraine is winning and there is popular support among the western allies to continue supporting Ukraine with what it needs to continue winning. It's tragic of course, but the blame and guilt is all on Putin.

This is not the same thing as saying that Ukraine or the west are saints. That's another of the Putinista propaganda games. Correctly point out flaws in the west as some kind of justification for Putin's outrageous aggressive actions, basically announcing GENOCIDAL intentions towards a neighboring sovereign nation.

Edited October 18, 2022 by Jingthing

thaibeachlovers · October 18, 2022

6 hours ago, BonMot said:

So, let the Ukrainians fight with their blood and your personal donations. Maybe leave Thailand and go volunteer in the Ukrainian rag tag army ????

Brandon lost Afghanistan he sure isn't going to be victorious against the bear and winter is coming.

Funny how libs love to spend others money, know what's best for other people always expressed through virtue signaling and theft of public coffers

Thailand made the right choice, chiefly protecting its own interests. US, UK and EU obviously doing precisely that.

I'm pretty sure most wanting western countries to get more involved might not be keen to go fight there themselves- much better for other people to do that. Wonder how many would be encouraging their sons to do so?

Perhaps one day ordinary Americans might wake up to how much of their tax money is going to make weapon manufacturers "profitable".

As always, IMO Thailand government is doing what is best for Thailand, not western countries.

thaibeachlovers · October 18, 2022

On 10/17/2022 at 7:44 PM, connda said:

For everyone listening enjoyment. Nothing has changed since the 1950s. That's for sure.

They're rioting in Africa
They're starving in Spain
There's hurricanes in Florida
And Texas needs rain

The whole world is festering
With unhappy souls
The French hate the Germans
The Germans hate the Poles

Italians hate the Yugoslavs
South Africans hate the Dutch
And I don't like anybody very much!

For sure those with eyes to see and brains to understand, know that this conflict is just the latest in a constant battle ( with intermittent episodes of peace ) that has been going on since mankind evolved.

I doubt it will be the last. After all, there is always someone else to hate.

BonMot · October 18, 2022

On 10/16/2022 at 11:52 PM, Bkk Brian said:

Vladimir Putin’s disdain for Ukraine’s president Volodymyr Zelensky reached its apex on February 25 in a bizarre speech, where he referred to the leadership of Ukraine as “a gang of drug addicts and neo-Nazis”. Putin also spoke about his desire for a new regime in the country.

The US has openly discussed regime change in Russia. Russia and US are not even at war. What is your point?

It's quite a common psychological tactic to paint people with opposing views as the others whether the term is Nazis, drug addicts or *breeders*...

Edited October 18, 2022 by BonMot

BonMot · October 18, 2022

On 10/17/2022 at 1:07 PM, heybruce said:

"The West has openly stated its goal of regime change, government overthrow, and partitioning of Russia."

What western nation has stated it wants regime change, etc. in Russia? Use credible sources, please.

US this is total common knowledge.

GIYF

BonMot · October 18, 2022

On 10/15/2022 at 11:30 PM, coolcarer said:

While you do that, in the meantime The Ukrainians are paying with their blood. They will carry on fighting for their own country, a sovereign nation that was illegally invaded by Putin and his war of choice.

Paying with their blood...join the Bangkok drama club.

Sovereign nation that was for 1000 years the part of greater Russia. Chuckles.

Illegally invaded. Another laff as the US is in dozens of countries at the moment, mischief and meddling. Ironically, the reason Putin decided to move into Ukraine was precisely this.

All wars are someone's war of choice.

coolcarer · October 18, 2022

2 hours ago, BonMot said:

The US has openly discussed regime change in Russia. Russia and US are not even at war. What is your point?

It's quite a common psychological tactic to paint people with opposing views as the others whether the term is Nazis, drug addicts or *breeders*...

Take a look at the post I was responding to and you’ll see exactly what my point was. If you can’t even follow the basic string of responses then I can’t help you.

BonMot · October 18, 2022

On 10/17/2022 at 1:06 PM, heybruce said:

"There are wars all over the globe, many fully backed by the US..."

What wars are fully backed by the United States? US support for Ukraine is the only one I'm aware of.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/9/10/infographic-us-military-presence-around-the-world-interactive

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colour_revolution

coolcarer · October 18, 2022

5 minutes ago, BonMot said:

Paying with their blood...join the Bangkok drama club.

Sovereign nation that was for 1000 years the part of greater Russia. Chuckles.

Illegally invaded. Another laff as the US is in dozens of countries at the moment, mischief and meddling. Ironically, the reason Putin decided to move into Ukraine was precisely this.

All wars are someone's war of choice.

The Bangkok drama club you say.

Unfortunately those fighting are not actors, those being raped and tortured are real and those being executed are dead, including the children all carried out by Putin’s war of choice

BonMot · October 18, 2022

At the end of the day... Thailand made it's decision and will most likely make similar ones in the future.

You will stay here and just complain (whine) to other foreigners rather than going to Ukraine and fighting or going home.

If you don't like your host's politics move on! I recommend Hungary.

Thailand ????????????????

Edited October 18, 2022 by BonMot

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