Using agents for visas

[Chainsaw]

Is it legal to use an agent to get a visa

 

Edited October 25, 2022 by Chainsaw

[CharlieH]

Depends entirely on your personal circumstances and what you are using them for.

 

Generally, yes, some people find them much more convenient than processing the application etc themselves.Agents have many services.

[problemfarang]

as CharlieH mentioned its depends why you are using them.

 

in most cases people are using them just because of lack of money. For example if you have non-o marriage visa, but cannot extend it for a year you will use visa agency or you are retired and have non-o but dont have the money in the bank or income.. you use agency. they show like you have the money. is it fair? i think yes, fair if you are married to a thai. if about retirement i think 50-50

in both or other cases, agency give money to the immigration officer to... help you, and show some fake documents such as your income or the money in the bank. i think you know the meaning of 'bribe'. simply that's what's happening. so in that two cases you are simply bribing the immigration officer via agency... well.. you tell me its legal or illegal?

 

other cases like people have all the documents and ready to go but lazy to do things by themselves or just want to be sure about things. These cases are one in a million because if you already have all necessary paper work you don't need any help. the rest is so easy.

 

there are some other cases such as people trying to stay and live in Thailand as much as they can do without any reason.. by reason i mean no work, no wife/husband, etc. These people are using agency to get some education visa or other funny visas such as martial arts or Thai food cooking classes. At some point yes, it seems legal but if you look deeply actually its abusing the system. Also at some point it comes to what is next? i mean what will you do after graduating from 2 universities and educate yourself again after the age of 50, 2 language schools which you wont even attend, 2 thai cooking classes and you cannot even eat spicy food, getting a black belt in self defense but you cannot even move your leg.. then.. what? i think you got my point.

 

lets put it in a simple way, it is illegal to use an agency the way people are using them in Thailand because 98% of the agencies in Thailand are bribing the Thai immigration police to do your visa. 

 

 

 

Edited October 25, 2022 by problemfarang

[timendres]

Agents, in general, are 100% legal.

Some agents are exceptionally good at what they do.

That said, some do provide services that are questionable.

 

For myself, having to renew a work permit, then an extension based on that work permit (the extension requiring nearly 100 pages of documentation, all in Thai), there is no way on earth I would renew without an agent.

[DezLez]

I have used the same CM agency for many years just because of the pure convenience,  At one time in CM, not so many years ago, you had to arrive at the IO before 4AM to get dealt with that same day if you were lucky plus COVID and irate IOs etc.  (I know times have changed but!!).

 

I am fully legit and pay my agent so all I do is before going there I go into BKK Bank to get my letter and updated passbook (Money in the bank fixed deposit) attend their office for 5 minutes and sign my documents, which they have already prepared and a day or two later spend 10 minutes max at the IO getting my Photo taken and signing for my extension and getting my passport back.

 

I would rather spend my time in the bar knowing my extension is hassle free than f@rt about with the IOs and their whims!

 

To me it is money well spent!

 

I cannot comment regarding those who feel they have to use agents for other reasons!

[DezLez]

20 minutes ago, problemfarang said:

"in most cases people are using them just because of lack of money."

 

"lets put it in a simple way, it is illegal to use an agency the way people are using them in Thailand because 98% of the agencies in Thailand are bribing the Thai immigration police to do your visa."

Do you have any proof of those statements?

 

I and many others use an agent for convenience, others from expediency. 

 

Nobody apart from the agents and the IOs, I assume, know the figures for each group!

 

 

 

 

Edited October 25, 2022 by DezLez

[Lacessit]

There are legitimate agents dealing with legitimate clients who have the requisite funds. There are other agents who use various subterfuges to circumvent the immigration laws, including bribery. The consensus seems to be the risk of being caught is quite low.

I used to have a legitimate agent in Chiang Mai. I started doing my yearly visa extensions and 90 day reporting myself, because all the agent did was smooth the path at the Immigration office.

It's a matter of individual choice, I may go back to an agent if I get too old to handle the paperwork competently.

[DezLez]

25 minutes ago, problemfarang said:

  i went to immigration to extend my visa and saw this guy who is in his 50s and trying to extend his education visa. and i could see the immigration officer face was like.. dude... really?!

Why should a 50s year old person not be allowed an ED Visa.  He may have met his potential future sole mate but wants to learn Thai before committing to marriage!

Edited October 25, 2022 by DezLez

[TravelerEastWest]

16 minutes ago, timendres said:

Agents, in general, are 100% legal.

Some agents are exceptionally good at what they do.

That said, some do provide services that are questionable.

 

For myself, having to renew a work permit, then an extension based on that work permit (the extension requiring nearly 100 pages of documentation, all in Thai), there is no way on earth I would renew without an agent.

Agree!

[DezLez]

23 minutes ago, problemfarang said:

it is illegal to use an agency the way people are using them in Thailand

WRONG!!!!!!!

[problemfarang]

8 minutes ago, DezLez said:

Do you have any proof of those statements?

you are joking, right? do you read the posts in this forum? why they are asking help from agencies? you are aware that the agencies IN thailand are not tourism agencies, right? 

 

10 minutes ago, DezLez said:

I and many others use an agent for convenience, others from expediency. 

 

Nobody apart from the agents and the IOs I assume know the figures for each group!

well than you and that 'many others' are in that one million i mentioned. if you are willing to pay to an agency something between 15 to 38K which you can easily do for 3000 baht is totally your choice. but it not change the reality that most of the people in thailand are using agencies because they dont have the necessary visa requirement. which makes what agency doing is illegal. and.. what you are doing. 

 

you have over 3000 posts... dont tell me you dont know the reality about the agencies and how they work. And its legal or not when they work. bribing is illegal. thats it. 

[problemfarang]

8 minutes ago, DezLez said:

Why should a 50s year old person not be allowed an ED Visa.  He may have met his potential future sole mate but wants to learn Thai before committing to marriage!

man.. so sorry, i was posting to another post but posted here wrongly.

[problemfarang]

22 minutes ago, DezLez said:

I cannot comment regarding those who feel they have to use agents for other reasons!

good. this shows actually you got my point

[problemfarang]

7 minutes ago, DezLez said:

WRONG!!!!!!!

not wrong. many people using agencies in Thiland because they dont have the necessary things to get the visa or extend the visa. 

people who can do, they just go to immigration and do in 1 day for max 3000 baht

 

i dont say anything to people using agency just because they dont want to deal with the immigraton. but they have all the things legal. 

[OneMoreFarang]

27 minutes ago, problemfarang said:

as CharlieH mentioned its depends why you are using them.

 

in most cases people are using them just because of lack of money. For example if you have non-o marriage visa, but cannot extend it for a year you will use visa agency or you are retired and have non-o but dont have the money in the bank or income.. you use agency. they show like you have the money. is it fair? i think yes, fair if you are married to a thai. if about retirement i think 50-50

in both or other cases, agency give money to the immigration officer to... help you, and show some fake documents such as your income or the money in the bank. i think you know the meaning of 'bribe'. simply that's what's happening. so in that two cases you are simply bribing the immigration officer via agency... well.. you tell me its legal or illegal?

 

other cases like people have all the documents and ready to go but lazy to do things by themselves or just want to be sure about things. These cases are one in a million because if you already have all necessary paper work you don't need any help. the rest is so easy.

 

there are some other cases such as people trying to stay and live in Thailand as much as they can do without any reason.. by reason i mean no work, no wife/husband, etc. These people are using agency to get some education visa or other funny visas such as martial arts or Thai food cooking classes. At some point yes, it seems legal but if you look deeply actually its abusing the system. Also at some point it comes to what is next? i mean what will you do after graduating from 2 universities and educate yourself again after the age of 50, 2 language schools which you wont even attend, 2 thai cooking classes and you cannot even eat spicy food, getting a black belt in self defense but you cannot even move your leg.. then.. what? i think you got my point.

 

lets put it in a simple way, it is illegal to use an agency the way people are using them in Thailand because 98% of the agencies in Thailand are bribing the Thai immigration police to do your visa. 

 

 

PS: i just remembered, i went to immigration to extend my visa and saw this guy who is in his 50s and trying to extend his education visa. and i could see the immigration officer face was like.. dude... really?! 

I disagree with most of what you write.

I don't know how many people use agents in which way. But I know plenty of people who are legally in Thailand and who don't need any illegal support but who use agents. The reason is that it is so much more convenient.

I.e. with my yearly business visa extension my agent, hired by my company, arrives at the immigration maybe at 6am. I see him at 8:30, walk with him to the immigration officer's "office", wait maybe 3 minutes before the previous person is processed, and then I sit with the officer, smile in the camera and a few minutes later I walk away. All done. No hassle. And if there are any questions then the agent works them out. Perfect! Currently my company pays for that, but I would pay it myself just for the convenience.

 

Now about the situation which are impossible without an agent because one or several people have to be bribed. I think people should only use this if they are desperate and have no other option. Why? Because things can go wrong. I remember an agent from years ago who seemed to be able to get miraculously lots of visas for lots of people. All was wonderful. Until the moment when the agent had to leave Thailand, within days. Out, or else. It seems he was doing the official stamps by himself in his office. Approved, sure...

Now I wonder what happened with those people who used his service and received visas which were just done with a fake stamp.

Sorry sir, you were illegal in Thailand for the last three years... 

Obviously that doesn't have to happen. But I think people who want to live here should keep that in mind when they ask agents to do the impossible.

 

[JimmyJ]

About every 2 weeks the same basic thread.

 

OP - Your question has been answered, or at least you have heard both.sides.

 

 If you want to read these same arguments for the next week, do a search of your question and read the same repetitive endless arguments on countless previous threads.

 

 

I suggest the thread be closed before it becomes an 18 page rehash of the thread from 2 weeks ago which was a rehash of the thread from 2 weeks before that, etc.

 

 

 

 

Edited October 25, 2022 by JimmyJ

[problemfarang]

11 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I disagree with most of what you write.

I don't know how many people use agents in which way. But I know plenty of people who are legally in Thailand and who don't need any illegal support but who use agents. The reason is that it is so much more convenient.

I.e. with my yearly business visa extension my agent, hired by my company, arrives at the immigration maybe at 6am. I see him at 8:30, walk with him to the immigration officer's "office", wait maybe 3 minutes before the previous person is processed, and then I sit with the officer, smile in the camera and a few minutes later I walk away. All done. No hassle. And if there are any questions then the agent works them out. Perfect! Currently my company pays for that, but I would pay it myself just for the convenience.

 

Now about the situation which are impossible without an agent because one or several people have to be bribed. I think people should only use this if they are desperate and have no other option. Why? Because things can go wrong. I remember an agent from years ago who seemed to be able to get miraculously lots of visas for lots of people. All was wonderful. Until the moment when the agent had to leave Thailand, within days. Out, or else. It seems he was doing the official stamps by himself in his office. Approved, sure...

Now I wonder what happened with those people who used his service and received visas which were just done with a fake stamp.

Sorry sir, you were illegal in Thailand for the last three years... 

Obviously that doesn't have to happen. But I think people who want to live here should keep that in mind when they ask agents to do the impossible.

 

with all respect i think we all can understand what the OP post means and what he is asking. obviously he is not asking things like this. And obviously he is asking something like if he can use the agency if he hasn't got the necessary visa requirements. and he wants to know if its legal or not. OR he wants to know if an agency do his visa which hasnt got the necessary visa requirements will be legal or not if a police asks him to see his visa or likewise situations. 

 

he asked if the agencies are legal or not and i simply explained him they are legal yes. i also explained him WHEN they are not illegal. so he can choice his answer.. 

[nightfox]

The best agent I found is actually immigration themselves. 

[scubascuba3]

Legal as long as it isn't some shady falang at a bar claiming he can do it for you. Needs to be a long established office with a good reputation 

[thaibeachlovers]

6 hours ago, problemfarang said:

well than you and that 'many others' are in that one million i mentioned. if you are willing to pay to an agency something between 15 to 38K which you can easily do for 3000 baht is totally your choice. but it not change the reality that most of the people in thailand are using agencies because they dont have the necessary visa requirement. which makes what agency doing is illegal. and.. what you are doing. 

Some proof of that would be acceptable, otherwise it's just your opinion.

I used an agent and worth every baht to eliminate the stress. I did have the required money in the bank for the required time.

The only thing I really disliked about Thailand was the immigration office, with their made up pointless rules about such as size of photo, colour of pen, and the worst one of all- having to update bank book on same day. What difference does one day make, especially when a withdrawal would be printed in the bank book? None, but it does make it far more difficult than it needs to be.

I reckon they sit around making up stupid rules to annoy us.

[jerrymahoney]

From THAILAND IMMIGRATION ACT, B.E. 2522 (1979)

 

Rate of fees, working fees, and other expenses (Page 38)

 

(3) Application for extension of temporary stay in the Kingdom under Section 35, per person, each time 2,000 baht 

 

Unofficial translation http://web.krisdika.go.th/data/outsitedata/outsite21/file/Immigration_Act_B.E._2522.pdf

Edited October 25, 2022 by jerrymahoney

[Hummin]

6 hours ago, DezLez said:

WRONG!!!!!!!

If you do not neet the requirements for visa and use an agent to get the visa.  Is it still legal?

[PeachCH]

Whatever people are saying here, visa agents are an "institution" in Thailand and working hand in hand with the Immigration and Bangkok bank since many, many years. If you are over 50 and don't have the required financial resources, then use an agency. 

 

Without this agents, Pattaya would be very empty!! 

[BritTim]

4 minutes ago, Hummin said:

If you do not neet the requirements for visa and use an agent to get the visa.  Is it still legal?

This has been discussed many times. There are ways it can be done, taking advantage of (deliberate) loopholes in the law., With care by the agent it is legal, although it involves what looks like corruption. Besides the apparent corruption which operates indirectly, a senior official abuses his discretion in allowing the extension, but that does not make it actually illegal. If the official's superiors do not turn a blind eye, he could be disciplined (without any actual laws needing to be broken).

 

In the event of a crackdown, you have broken no laws even if, clumsily, the agent has. You are paying the agent to help with your application, and have plausible deniability over the ethics and legality of the methods used by the agent to process your application. The worst that might reasonably happen is that other disapproving immigration officials could give you a hard time in future. See, for instance, what happened after the dubious scheme involving volunteer visas and extensions during Covid. There was a kind of crackdown, but no one prosecuted for any crime.

[Hummin]

8 minutes ago, BritTim said:

This has been discussed many times. There are ways it can be done, taking advantage of (deliberate) loopholes in the law., With care by the agent it is legal, although it involves what looks like corruption. Besides the apparent corruption which operates indirectly, a senior official abuses his discretion in allowing the extension, but that does not make it actually illegal. If the official's superiors do not turn a blind eye, he could be disciplined (without any actual laws needing to be broken).

 

In the event of a crackdown, you have broken no laws even if, clumsily, the agent has. You are paying the agent to help with your application, and have plausible deniability over the ethics and legality of the methods used by the agent to process your application. The worst that might reasonably happen is that other disapproving immigration officials could give you a hard time in future. See, for instance, what happened after the dubious scheme involving volunteer visas and extensions during Covid. There was a kind of crackdown, but no one prosecuted for any crime.

Yeah, but really? We know better right? 

[Lacessit]

57 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Some proof of that would be acceptable, otherwise it's just your opinion.

I used an agent and worth every baht to eliminate the stress. I did have the required money in the bank for the required time.

The only thing I really disliked about Thailand was the immigration office, with their made up pointless rules about such as size of photo, colour of pen, and the worst one of all- having to update bank book on same day. What difference does one day make, especially when a withdrawal would be printed in the bank book? None, but it does make it far more difficult than it needs to be.

I reckon they sit around making up stupid rules to annoy us.

While I agree updating the bank book on the same day is annoying, it's not that hard. I go to the cash deposit machine outside the bank at 7 am, deposit 1000 baht. Then move to the passbook update machine. Takes a couple of minutes.

IMO the rule is there because it is possible to withdraw an appreciable amount of funds using a linked debit card without those withdrawals showing in the passbook.

[BritTim]

6 minutes ago, Hummin said:

Yeah, but really? We know better right? 

You and I certainly do, but I am pretty sure that many using agents have no idea of the requirements for their extensions. I would also be completely truthful in stating that I had no desire for the agent to do anything illegal.

Edited October 25, 2022 by BritTim

[Mike Teavee]

7 hours ago, problemfarang said:

you are joking, right? do you read the posts in this forum? why they are asking help from agencies? you are aware that the agencies IN thailand are not tourism agencies, right? 

 

well than you and that 'many others' are in that one million i mentioned. if you are willing to pay to an agency something between 15 to 38K which you can easily do for 3000 baht is totally your choice. but it not change the reality that most of the people in thailand are using agencies because they dont have the necessary visa requirement. which makes what agency doing is illegal. and.. what you are doing. 

 

you have over 3000 posts... dont tell me you dont know the reality about the agencies and how they work. And its legal or not when they work. bribing is illegal. thats it. 

I'm another one who uses an agent purely for the convenience & the cost is 7.900b in Bangkok, 8,000b in Pattaya. (The amounts you quoted are for people who don't meet the Finance and/or Insurance requirements to extend their Non-Imm O / OAs). 

 

Worth it to me... ... E.g. Last Year I hadn't updated my Bank Book often enough so there were some amalgamated entries in there which would have been unacceptable to Immigration, my Agent spotted this and took me to Bangkok Bank to explain what I needed to fix the problem - Saved me at least one additional trip to CW... ... Maybe it isn't to you, but I'm sure I could point to things that you spend your money on that I wouldn't consider to be worth it to me. 

 

Too each his own.

 

 

 

Back to the OP... It is not Illegal to use an Agent, it's not even Illegal to get an extension without the necessary finances being in place (Senior IOs have the discretion to wave the requirement) BUT there have been instances in the past where Agents have done some very illegal things (e.g. Using fake immigration stamps or sending passports on border runs) so if you're going to use one, use a reputable one even if you are maybe straying into "Grey Areas" 

 

[The Old Bull]

I got screwed on the Thai Pass last year so used an agent second time I applied. Advertised time was 2 to 7 days. I had mine in 3 hours cost B3000 . I should have used them first time.

[OneMoreFarang]

6 hours ago, problemfarang said:

with all respect i think we all can understand what the OP post means and what he is asking. obviously he is not asking things like this. And obviously he is asking something like if he can use the agency if he hasn't got the necessary visa requirements. and he wants to know if its legal or not. OR he wants to know if an agency do his visa which hasnt got the necessary visa requirements will be legal or not if a police asks him to see his visa or likewise situations. 

 

he asked if the agencies are legal or not and i simply explained him they are legal yes. i also explained him WHEN they are not illegal. so he can choice his answer.. 

 

And you get your above interpretation of what he actually wants to know from this simple question? Amazing!

8 hours ago, Chainsaw said:

Is it legal to use an agent to get a visa