42 minutes ago, Mavideol said:

if only the Tories could listen to you all problems solved and England back to be "fully" independent from the UK  555

Long live the King. 

21 minutes ago, stevenl said:

How about a vote on england becoming independent?

Leave up to the others to decide what they want to do ?

6 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Leave up to the others to decide what they want to do ?

Au contraire. You claim the English want the Scots out, so why not have the English a vote on getting out themselves.

2 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Au contraire. You claim the English want the Scots out, so why not have the English a vote on getting out themselves.

I don't think that there would be much interest from the English in an independence vote

9 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

I don't think that there would be much interest from the English in an independence vote

I'm not getting drawn in another discussion with you where you contradict yourself.

10 hours ago, kwilco said:

Brexit - it puts the UK out of trade and 4 to 10% economically worse. The rest of the world is suffering from inflation ,energy crisis etc etc but the UK threw the baby out with the bat water. 

You've nailed it.A staggeringly stupid mistake to make.

43 minutes ago, stevenl said:

I'm not getting drawn in another discussion with you where you contradict yourself.

I was talking about the English voting on Scottish intemperance , the English voting on English independence would be a different issue .

   So, no contradiction on my part 

1 hour ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Leave up to the others to decide what they want to do ?

and that's called DEMOCRACY  ... does England still have some 555

1 hour ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

I don't think that there would be much interest from the English in an independence vote

and you know that how, tarot cards or the fortune teller down at the corner of your street ?? you may be surprised by the vote outcome, give it a try

4 minutes ago, Mavideol said:

and you know that how, tarot cards or the fortune teller down at the corner of your street ?? you may be surprised by the vote outcome, give it a try

Just that I have never heard anyone from England mention it at all , ever.

1 hour ago, chang50 said:

You've nailed it.A staggeringly stupid mistake to make.

Well democracy can be stupid.

7 hours ago, RayC said:

Problem is that there is no evidence to suggest that things will get better. It's nothing but blind faith to suggest otherwise.

 

The UK almost never had to enact any legislation from Brussels that it didn't agree with. 

Unless you have a working crystal ball, you don't know that things won't get better.

4 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

The added benefit is that millions of Europeans  can not just come to the UK and live and work in the U.K 

You state that your objection to freedom of movement is not based on economic factors.

 

You also deny that you are motivated by xenophobia.

 

What exactly is your objection to Europeans living and working in the UK?

 

(Please do not mention the effect on the UK job market unless you are willing to concede that is an economic factor).

7 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Unless you have a working crystal ball, you don't know that things won't get better.

That is such a lazy argument. It's akin to saying that God must exist because you can't prove categorically that s/he/it doesn't. 

 

The other favourite Brexiter counter-argument, that they know someone whose business is now thriving therefore Brexit is beneficial, is like saying that I knew someone who smoked 40 Capstan full strength per day and he lived to 90. Therefore, smoking must be good for you. It simply isn't true. It is another false argument.

 

The facts are simple: (Almost) Every piece of research conducted into Brexit has found that it has had and - based on certain assumptions - will continue to have negative economic effects. If Brexiters do not accept these hypotheses, arguments and conclusions then the onus on them to find flaws in the assumptions and methodologies. The fact that there are few, if any, studies which have done so suggest that the original research is credible and valid.

 

Why do Brexit supporters find it so difficult to acknowledge this?

42 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Unless you have a working crystal ball, you don't know that things won't get better.

There's lie's the problem with people thinking like that nowadays.

 

I was paying 14% on my mortgage at one time nothing i could do about it other than get on with it. 

 

14 minutes ago, RayC said:

That is such a lazy argument. It's akin to saying that God must exist because you can't prove categorically that s/he/it doesn't. 

 

The other favourite Brexiter counter-argument, that they know someone whose business is now thriving therefore Brexit is beneficial, is like saying that I knew someone who smoked 40 Capstan full strength per day and he lived to 90. Therefore, smoking must be good for you. It simply isn't true. It is another false argument.

 

The facts are simple: (Almost) Every piece of research conducted into Brexit has found that it has had and - based on certain assumptions - will continue to have negative economic effects. If Brexiters do not accept these hypotheses, arguments and conclusions then the onus on them to find flaws in the assumptions and methodologies. The fact that there are few, if any, studies which have done so suggest that the original research is credible and valid.

 

Why do Brexit supporters find it so difficult to acknowledge this?

Just go and have a beer and don't think about it. ????

11 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Call me a fool then. Remember bent bananas?

the 2 Brexit myths - bent bananas and Bangers - that is the only thing Brexiteers ever refer to - hardly a reason to leave the biggest free trade area in the world - but it does sum up the mentality of so many Brexiteers.

18 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Requiring foreigners to obtain visas before visiting a Country isn't being xenophobic 

THere's a common theme running through all your posts on Thaivisa - look back at that checklist of Tropes and cliches I posted.

18 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Requiring foreigners to obtain visas before visiting a Country isn't being xenophobic 

Not all Brexiteers are racists, but all racists are Brexiteers

23 minutes ago, RayC said:

That is such a lazy argument. It's akin to saying that God must exist because you can't prove categorically that s/he/it doesn't. 

 

The other favourite Brexiter counter-argument, that they know someone whose business is now thriving therefore Brexit is beneficial, is like saying that I knew someone who smoked 40 Capstan full strength per day and he lived to 90. Therefore, smoking must be good for you. It simply isn't true. It is another false argument.

 

The facts are simple: (Almost) Every piece of research conducted into Brexit has found that it has had and - based on certain assumptions - will continue to have negative economic effects. If Brexiters do not accept these hypotheses, arguments and conclusions then the onus on them to find flaws in the assumptions and methodologies. The fact that there are few, if any, studies which have done so suggest that the original research is credible and valid.

 

Why do Brexit supporters find it so difficult to acknowledge this?

Voting leave wasn't a result of critical thinking, it was a largely emotional response so now that project fear has materialised they can't go back because there is nothing to go back on....it involve a degree of naval gazing tat is way beyond them. They will just latch onto another feeling to get them by . Dunkirk spirit and nationalism are 2 that spring to mind - and of course the shape of bananas and contents of sausages.

 

56 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Unless you have a working crystal ball, you don't know that things won't get better.

So no good using reasoned thought and deduction, then?

3 minutes ago, kwilco said:

THere's a common theme running through all your posts on Thaivisa - look back at that checklist of Tropes and cliches I posted.

Your checklist is a nonsense lists that just calls every single person racist because its not possible to tick none of the boxes .

   Its like a trick questionnaire where every result  give gives the same result : "Youre a racist" is the answer to the checklist . 

   The checklist also considers you yourself to be a racist .

So you act as if your checklist is some kind of genuine official defining  document , where its isn't defining at all and doesn't show anything 

13 minutes ago, kwilco said:

the 2 Brexit myths - bent bananas and Bangers - that is the only thing Brexiteers ever refer to - hardly a reason to leave the biggest free trade area in the world - but it does sum up the mentality of so many Brexiteers.

With your high intelligence and amazing powers of observation , I would have thought that you would have realised that the "bent bananas" is a reference to all the E.U's regulations that were imposed on the U.K , rather than just specifically bent bananas .

   Rather than list all the E.U regulations , people just say "bent bananas" for short as  an example

1 hour ago, RayC said:

That is such a lazy argument. It's akin to saying that God must exist because you can't prove categorically that s/he/it doesn't. 

 

The other favourite Brexiter counter-argument, that they know someone whose business is now thriving therefore Brexit is beneficial, is like saying that I knew someone who smoked 40 Capstan full strength per day and he lived to 90. Therefore, smoking must be good for you. It simply isn't true. It is another false argument.

 

The facts are simple: (Almost) Every piece of research conducted into Brexit has found that it has had and - based on certain assumptions - will continue to have negative economic effects. If Brexiters do not accept these hypotheses, arguments and conclusions then the onus on them to find flaws in the assumptions and methodologies. The fact that there are few, if any, studies which have done so suggest that the original research is credible and valid.

 

Why do Brexit supporters find it so difficult to acknowledge this?

Let’s make it even more simple than that.

 

Rees-Mogg was appointed as minister of ‘Brexit Opportunities’, he couldn’t find any.

 

Or rather he omitted the ‘Brexit Opportunities handed to him and that other hedge fund manager Crispin Odey to place bets against the UK.

 

So why did hedge funds managers who where betting against the UK back Brexit?

 

The bitter irony is, Rees Mogg is as thick as two short planks, but he and his hedge fund managers raked in vast fortunes by convincing ordinary Brits that Old Etonians had their best interests at heart.

 

 

 

 

28 minutes ago, kwilco said:

Voting leave wasn't a result of critical thinking, it was a largely emotional response so now that project fear has materialised they can't go back because there is nothing to go back on....it involve a degree of naval gazing tat is way beyond them. They will just latch onto another feeling to get them by . Dunkirk spirit and nationalism are 2 that spring to mind - and of course the shape of bananas and contents of sausages.

I came to the same conclusion in 1975 and 2016. The Treaty of Rome answered my questions, although sorting through that mess was time-consuming and very difficult, the first time. Successive treaties have just made the decision easier. For the EEC/EU to function as the original treaty envisioned, then that means the eventual creation of a single European state - this would have to mean that member states would eventually lose their sovereignty to become just regions. This is neither desirable nor acceptable to me. 

 

It was never about economics but about preservation of the nation as it is, for future generations.

 

Europe could easily have a "common market" without this appointed political clan ruing over it.  

 

 

 

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

I came to the same conclusion in 1975 and 2016. The Treaty of Rome answered my questions, although sorting through that mess was time-consuming and very difficult, the first time. Successive treaties have just made the decision easier. For the EEC/EU to function as the original treaty envisioned, then that means the eventual creation of a single European state - this would have to mean that member states would eventually lose their sovereignty to become just regions. This is neither desirable nor acceptable to me. 

 

It was never about economics but about preservation of the nation as it is, for future generations.

 

Europe could easily have a "common market" without this appointed political clan ruing over it.  

 

 

 

It's same old cliche's somewhere between Jackanory and conspiracy theory. What I can't fathom is how the UK got so stupid.

2 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Your checklist is a nonsense lists that just calls every single person racist because its not possible to tick none of the boxes .

" not possible to tick none of the boxes .: - QED!!!

3 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

Well democracy can be stupid.

so what is they voted the world was flat?

Troll post reported and removed.  

 

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

I came to the same conclusion in 1975 and 2016. The Treaty of Rome answered my questions, although sorting through that mess was time-consuming and very difficult, the first time. Successive treaties have just made the decision easier. For the EEC/EU to function as the original treaty envisioned, then that means the eventual creation of a single European state - this would have to mean that member states would eventually lose their sovereignty to become just regions. This is neither desirable nor acceptable to me. 

 

It was never about economics but about preservation of the nation as it is, for future generations.

 

Europe could easily have a "common market" without this appointed political clan ruing over it.  

 

 

 

Nonsense. So long as the UK had its own currency, it couldn't be incorporated into a one nation EU. And if the unlikely day would come when the EU made such a demand, then the UK would be perfectly free to leave.