6 minutes ago, kwilco said:

Since Brexit between 20 and 30 thousand EU workers have left the NHS and recruitment rates have plunged as foreign workers can't get visas.

IMO nurses are hard to get now because they have to do a degree at uni instead of being paid to train like I was. The pay is just too low to make it worth while.

That's why so many Filipinas are working in the west, as they have a degree and even low NHS wages are better than what they'd get in the Philippines.

49 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Decades ago when I started nursing, I had considered being ambulance driver or working in A and E. Given the <deleted> people they have to deal with now, there is no way I'd even think about it today.

 

It was a different world back then, when most people had some consideration for others.

 

They keep theirselves supported with joking and messaging on FD. 

 

My daughter loves her job,  i joke with her saying when you come holiday i will put a flashing blue light and siren on my truck and you can drive in Thailand for me. ????

11 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

They keep theirselves supported with joking and messaging on FD. 

 

My daughter loves her job,  i joke with her saying when you come holiday i will put a flashing blue light and siren on my truck and you can drive in Thailand for me. ????

I'd have loved to be a paramedic, or work in A and E, but it's not the work that was the problem- blood and guts don't bother me- it was the <deleted> that attack people trying to help them. I wouldn't take that garbage and would have ended up getting fired. In the end I couldn't even tolerate the <deleted> on the wards and got a job in theatres where I didn't have to worry about <deleted> people.

4 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I'd have loved to be a paramedic, or work in A and E, but it's not the work that was the problem- blood and guts don't bother me- it was the <deleted> that attack people trying to help them. I wouldn't take that garbage and would have ended up getting fired. In the end I couldn't even tolerate the <deleted> on the wards and got a job in theatres where I didn't have to worry about <deleted> people.

I understand that.

 

Once after a cycling accident I was laid up in a busy A&E waiting like everybody else to be attended by the clearly very busy staff.

 

A man came in with his young daughter, she appeared to have injured her hand, painful for her and I’m sure distressing for her father.

 

They were immediately attended by a male nurse but then, like the rest of us asked to wait a while for the medical team to deal with his daughter.

 

The father started screaming abuse and punched the male nurse out and fighting people who came to try help the nurse.

 

The police to there credit were on it within moments, arresting the father on the spot.

 

But it was a real eye opener for me and I’ve learned since not at all an uncommon occurrence.

 

 

6 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I'd have loved to be a paramedic, or work in A and E, but it's not the work that was the problem- blood and guts don't bother me- it was the <deleted> that attack people trying to help them. I wouldn't take that garbage and would have ended up getting fired. In the end I couldn't even tolerate the <deleted> on the wards and got a job in theatres where I didn't have to worry about <deleted> people.

My daughter has been trained by airlines to deal with difficult people her previous job,  which has been an asset in her now paramedic employment.

 

They waist a lot time these days waiting for nurse or doctor to receive there so called emergency patients into the hospital and there lies another problem.

 

Going to external accidents obviously is not a problem only keeping them alive until A&E can take them in. 

 

It's the house calls resulting in the emergency caller opening the door and asking if they would like a cup of tea. ????

On 12/2/2022 at 5:13 PM, Kwasaki said:

It's the house calls resulting in the emergency caller opening the door and asking if they would like a cup of tea. ????

Which will continue till penalties are introduced for crank calls.

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Which will continue till penalties are introduced for crank calls.

There not crank calls there made by lonely elderly people having panic attacks for example.

 

Social services are notified by the paramedic teams but there's as usual a lack of staff. 

15 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

There not crank calls there made by lonely elderly people having panic attacks for example.

 

Social services are notified by the paramedic teams but there's as usual a lack of staff. 

Ambulances are needed  saving lives, not as some sort of comfort service.

 

Social services lack staff- what a surprise, given the sort of people they have to deal with now. They deserve medals ( and a huge bonus ) for doing that job.

8 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Ambulances are needed  saving lives, not as some sort of comfort service.

 

Social services lack staff- what a surprise, given the sort of people they have to deal with now. They deserve medals ( and a huge bonus ) for doing that job.

So are you saying that over 20,000 people left the ambulance service/emergency/responder/care because they don't like the people they transport? Or that suddenly people have started malingering?

1 minute ago, kwilco said:

So are you saying that over 20,000 people left the ambulance service/emergency/responder/care because they don't like the people they transport? Or that suddenly people have started malingering?

Don't be in such a hurry to attack me, LOL.

The comment about short staffing was restricted to social services- NOT the ambulance service.

Nothing to with transporting people.

 

8 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Don't be in such a hurry to attack me, LOL.

The comment about short staffing was restricted to social services- NOT the ambulance service.

Nothing to with transporting people.

 

It is the aftercare services that are so screwed - this is because they left after Brexit. You do understand what is happening in the NHS, don't you?

Boris and the Brexiteers promised to spend £350 million pounds a week on the NHS - in reality funding is reduced and staff have exited from all levels of healthcare. Ambulance response times that should be 8 minutes are up to over an hour. I was actually pt on HOLD on a 99 cal a month ago. Without a buoyant  economy the NHS can't function - Brexit has killed all that.

 

Blaming the sick and elderly is just that - SICK

2 minutes ago, kwilco said:

It is the aftercare services that are so screwed - this is because they left after Brexit. You do understand what is happening in the NHS, don't you?

Given I worked in it for years I have an idea. Bad management and bullying managers don't make for a happy organisation. Might have helped if they paid enough to entice British people to become nurses.

7 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Given I worked in it for years I have an idea. Bad management and bullying managers don't make for a happy organisation. Might have helped if they paid enough to entice British people to become nurses.

well my family has Doctors and Physios who have "worked for years" but rather than claim family - I look at the evidence -  - but the difference is that perceptions of bad management etc are a constant that doesn't explain the profound b=nose-dive the NHS has take since Brexit. We haven't suddenly got bad managers - we've suddenly lost between 20 and 40 thousand staff. wE are also falling behind the quality offered in EU countries.

we haven't "suddenly" got bad management - we have suddenly LOST thousands of staff which has caused a fatal backlog in the hospitals themselves

 

1 minute ago, kwilco said:

well my family has Doctors and Physios who have "worked for years" but rather than claim family - I look at the evidence -  - but the difference is that perceptions of bad management etc are a constant that doesn't explain the profound b=nose-dive the NHS has take since Brexit. We haven't suddenly got bad managers - we've suddenly lost between 20 and 40 thousand staff. wE are also falling behind the quality offered in EU countries.

 

You miss my point entirely, which is that British people don't want to work in the NHS. The NHS has exploited overseas workers for years, which is why it's a problem now that they can't get cheap labour, and not enough British qualified.

I was one of the exploited and bullied in the NHS. Only reason I didn't leave it and become a tube driver ( better money, more holidays, free travel in London ) was that I was too old to do so.

12 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

You miss my point entirely, which is that British people don't want to work in the NHS. The NHS has exploited overseas workers for years, which is why it's a problem now that they can't get cheap labour, and not enough British qualified.

I was one of the exploited and bullied in the NHS. Only reason I didn't leave it and become a tube driver ( better money, more holidays, free travel in London ) was that I was too old to do so.

These are is such pathetic cliches! - "British don't want to work"? So suddenly after Brexit they won't work???

"Exploited overseas workers" - You can't replace these people without training which takes months or even years - so you admit we need to recruit? Why must we recruit? Because thousands left - not because they were suddenly released from exploitation - they had freedom of movement and could leave whenever they wanted - they have now gone to other countries in the EU where wages may even be better but they don't have to get visas and work permits or worry about losing their accommodation or listen to racist comments on their way to work.

 

If these workers were exploited how will the NHS attract new workers? By offering new higher wages? Well the nurses are being offered lower tan inflation - as are doctors and carers - so that's hardly "not exploiting"; isn't it just exploiting another bunch of untrained Brits.

 

maybe they could use the £350 million a week? Oh no because that didn't exist..

 

for the first time ever in history, the nurses are going on strike because they are receiving "exploitative wages from government that wants to destroy the NHS = the Government has admitted they are training the armed forces to take over fire fighting and ambulance/nurse services - other countries have problems but this single issue Brexit goverment has proved incapable of running the country.

They wanted to "take the country back"  - and they have -  to the 1930s!

1 minute ago, kwilco said:

These are is such pathetic cliches! - "British don't want to work"? So suddenly after Brexit they won't work???

"Exploited overseas workers" - You can't replace these people without training which takes months or even years - so you admit we need to recruit? Why must we recriut? Because thousands left - not becuase they were suddenlt released from exploitation - they had freedom od moverment and could leave whenec=ver they wanted - they have now gone to otger countries in the EU where wahges may even be better but they don't have to get visas and workpermits or worry about losing their accommodation or listen to racist comments on their way to work.

Calm down, have a cuppa and a lie down then read what I wrote and you might stop making things up.

"British don't want to work" You left out "in the NHS".

 

"You can't replace these people without training which takes months or even years"

That's right and they haven't been training enough for decades- relying on cheap labour from overseas instead.

 

All those bad management decisions are now coming back to bite them, and all forseeable.

 

 

13 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Calm down, have a cuppa and a lie down then read what I wrote and you might stop making things up.

"British don't want to work" You left out "in the NHS".

 

"You can't replace these people without training which takes months or even years"

That's right and they haven't been training enough for decades- relying on cheap labour from overseas instead.

 

All those bad management decisions are now coming back to bite them, and all forseeable.

 

 

Sadly all you can do is cherry pick and move the goalposts when you argument falls flat.

I make nothing up unlike Brexit , my arguments are based on evidence and reason things tat are anathemas to Brexiteers.

They are NOT training people they have left - what fantasy world do you live in - I have spent the last year looking after elderly people and have seen first hand the problems of he NHS in England I have also witnessed t disappearance of people from the health service at all levels. My best friend from school a retired doctor had to come back into service due to the dite shortage in his area.

All you are doing is grubbing around nonsense looking for a plausible alternative to the "bleedin' obvious" (JC) - just admit it Brexit has been an absolute disaster.

Depite you efforts to change the goalposts re NHS - it isn't just in the NHS this is happening,,,it's been lorry drivers, catering worker/tourist workers - and many. many more. This is NOT happening in the EU as people there have freedom of movement and can work where and when they want.

 

the only thing "coming back to bite them" is Brexit.

2 hours ago, kwilco said:

Sadly all you can do is cherry pick and move the goalposts when you argument falls flat.

I make nothing up unlike Brexit , my arguments are based on evidence and reason things tat are anathemas to Brexiteers.

They are NOT training people they have left - what fantasy world do you live in - I have spent the last year looking after elderly people and have seen first hand the problems of he NHS in England I have also witnessed t disappearance of people from the health service at all levels. My best friend from school a retired doctor had to come back into service due to the dite shortage in his area.

All you are doing is grubbing around nonsense looking for a plausible alternative to the "bleedin' obvious" (JC) - just admit it Brexit has been an absolute disaster.

Depite you efforts to change the goalposts re NHS - it isn't just in the NHS this is happening,,,it's been lorry drivers, catering worker/tourist workers - and many. many more. This is NOT happening in the EU as people there have freedom of movement and can work where and when they want.

 

the only thing "coming back to bite them" is Brexit.

Calm down, it's a forum, not the UN, and I do not have to agree with you, nor does my post have to conform to your druthers and no, I am not blaming Brexit for the long standing deficiencies in NHS management.

As the clouds of Covid and economic lunacy clear, what remains is the stark reality that anything the world is suffering from is exacerbated by fir the UK by Brexit......

 

The media is now reporting more and more of the da.aged caused by this aberration...

7 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Ambulances are needed  saving lives, not as some sort of comfort service.

 

Social services lack staff- what a surprise, given the sort of people they have to deal with now. They deserve medals ( and a huge bonus ) for doing that job.

Yes they still care for old people doing something wrong they don't treat old people like some people have done recently on another thread. ????????

4 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Calm down, it's a forum, not the UN, and I do not have to agree with you, nor does my post have to conform to your druthers and no, I am not blaming Brexit for the long standing deficiencies in NHS management.

Remainers will use anything to be able to say I told you so, so just leave them in there bubble and move on. 

Deficiencies in NHS was going on when UK was in EU. 

46 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

Remainers will use anything to be able to say I told you so, so just leave them in there bubble and move on. 

Deficiencies in NHS was going on when UK was in EU. 

It's true that the Tories were screwing up the NHS before brexit. However, you offer no explanationfor the sudden decline in staffing in the wake of brexit.

33 minutes ago, placeholder said:

It's true that the Tories were screwing up the NHS before brexit. However, you offer no explanationfor the sudden decline in staffing in the wake of brexit.

Pretty obvious and discussed on LBC talk radio station, 'Covid' was one, cost of living rises many leaving because of low wages. 

 

Regarding the UK NHS . The fact is that the nurses have been underpaid for many years . To enable the service to continue working over the last 20 years or more , the government sought foreign nurses who were happy to work in the NHS as they were being paid very much more that they were getting in their home countries . I believe they were working on 3 or 4 year visas and had to return to their mother countries when the visas expired . So that is one reason on the lack of nurses but another reason is migration . Last year there was a net migration of 504,000 . However that does not tell the whole story because there were 1,064,000 immigrants and 504,000 emigrants . In the last year 2000 doctors and 40,000 nurses left the UK to countries such as Australia , New Zealand and the U.S.A. where their profession is well paid and respected . Furthermore some of the NHS nurses who left , went and worked for agencies and doubled their income but ironically were then working again within the NHS as agency nurses at a huge cost to the government .   The NHS is in danger of collapsing and it needs urgent help with cross party involvement , not just the Tories who have not managed it well . As a Tory , I am embarrassed with the lack of attention given by the government over the last 12 years , no excuses as it has been going down the pan for some time . 

the UK is "again" rewarded from the Brexit, with so much "good" deals one has to wonder what the UK will be doing with so many "free deals"   555  (Sarcasm intended)

Brexit strikes again as UK exports to Japan fall short

Brexit strikes again as UK exports to Japan fall short (msn.com)

 

Buffeted by Economic Woes, U.K. Starts to Look at Brexit With ‘Bregret’

 

"The cause of the remorse is clear: Britain’s economic crisis, which is the gravest in a generation and worse than those of its European neighbors. 

The latest eruption of this never-ending drama began last week with an opinion poll that showed support for Brexit had fallen to its lowest level yet. Only 32 percent of those surveyed in the poll, by the firm YouGov, said that they thought leaving the European Union was a good idea; 56 percent said it was a mistake."

 

Huge Majority Now Say Brexit Was A Mistake

 

London Loses Crown of Biggest European Stock Market to Paris

 

What a fantastic success this Brexit has turned out to be. Who knew, right?!

Why is UK struggling MORE? Because of Brexit. Citing other problems is deflection

more and more critics of Brexit are being reported - basically as the cloud of covid nd other "excuses" are stripped away the stark reality remains.....

 

5 minutes ago, kwilco said:

more and more critics of Brexit are being reported - basically as the cloud of covid nd other "excuses" are stripped away the stark reality remains.....

 

Did you read the bit where its says that Brexit was adding/contributing  to the soaring price rises and the main cause was Ukraine and Covid ?

26 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Did you read the bit where its says that Brexit was adding/contributing  to the soaring price rises and the main cause was Ukraine and Covid ?

It's between the bits where the article states " ... there are clear signs leaving the EU was adding to soaring prices ..." and " .. it was important to highlight the damage Brexit has also done ...".

 

The negative effects of two events - which the government had little control over - compounded by the negative effects of a completely unnecessary, avoidable event.