POLL: Do you think Brexit is a success or failure?

[Mac Mickmanus]

4 minutes ago, soi3eddie said:

Clearly, a great many because they are not able to return now. That is why many did not return to better employment options.

 

 

How many E.U citizens left the UK when Brexit happened  ?

 

[soi3eddie]

5 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

How many E.U citizens left the UK when Brexit happened  ?

 

It wasn't how many EU citizens left the UK when Brexit happened. Many left during the pandemic BEFORE Brexit happened.

 

[Mac Mickmanus]

5 minutes ago, soi3eddie said:

It wasn't how many EU citizens left the UK when Brexit happened. Many left during the pandemic BEFORE Brexit happened.

 

Eddie : How Many ?

The Pandemic came AFTER   Brexit , No one could have left during the pandemic before Brexit, because the Pandemic happened a few weeks AFTER Brexit had happened 

 

[puchooay]

14 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Eddie : How Many ?

The Pandemic came AFTER   Brexit , No one could have left during the pandemic before Brexit, because the Pandemic happened a few weeks AFTER Brexit had happened 

 

I'm going to upset the purists that need links to everything and don't accept personal experiences here but, I've worked in two places in the last 3 years that are dominated by foreign workers. Only today I worked in a team of 8. 2 UK, 5 EU snd 1 Asian. Other teams in the same work place with similar ratios.

 

The 5 EU citizens are amazed at how many others they know who left UK. They say the system for staying was very simple. What they did say is they knew quite a few of their community had left as they could not provide the correct paper work. Generally they were talking about P60. Proof of tax and NI payments. Having worked  on a cash in hand basis.

Edited December 31, 2022 by puchooay

[Mac Mickmanus]

3 minutes ago, puchooay said:

I'm going to upset the purists that need links to everything and don't accept personal experiences here but,

No need to be concerned, I for one prefer peoples personal experiences and I don't ask for links . 

  Maybe its the people living abroad that don't like to hear about personal experiences in the UK and they prefer to get their information from biased news sources ?

[GinBoy2]

I'm an American, but have loved your country since a teenager listening to the BBC World Service on Shortwave in my bedroom.

 

It breaks my heart how Brexit has torn your country apart, but I can't deny feeling the sense of lunacy of it all.

 

I'm sure many of you had deep felt reasons for it, and i suspect as in my own country a lot of it was because of immigration.

 

Probably that could have been figured out, but as it turned out you threw the baby out with the bath water

[RayC]

3 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

No need to be concerned, I for one prefer peoples personal experiences and I don't ask for links . 

  Maybe its the people living abroad that don't like to hear about personal experiences in the UK and they prefer to get their information from biased news sources ?

An analogy: I knew a bloke smoked 40+/ day, lived to be 90. Who says smoking is bad for you? Must be these bias news sources.

[Bluespunk]

7 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

No need to be concerned, I for one prefer peoples personal experiences and I don't ask for links . 

  Maybe its the people living abroad that don't like to hear about personal experiences in the UK and they prefer to get their information from biased news sources ?

Of course you prefer alleged experiences as you cannot refute the fact based reports showing evidence on the negative impact brexit has had upon the U.K. economy. 

[Mac Mickmanus]

7 hours ago, RayC said:

An analogy: I knew a bloke smoked 40+/ day, lived to be 90. Who says smoking is bad for you? Must be these bias news sources.

Is that true or did you make that up ?

Its important to have real analogy's rather than made up ones 

[puchooay]

7 hours ago, RayC said:

An analogy: I knew a bloke smoked 40+/ day, lived to be 90. Who says smoking is bad for you? Must be these bias news sources.

Not at all.

 

What it does show, to those who can think for themselves, is that personal experiences show that what we read may not be true to everyone.

 

Polls have been mentioned on here many times. Some posters using them to try to prove a point. I did a poll of 5 EU citizens I work with. They all said Brexit was not an issue with them as they had the correct documentation and made the applications they needed to in plenty of time.

 

So, what is so different? The polls are published and there is a link. Is there a link to each individual that was polled? NO. Do we know they said what the poll said? NO. Are polls to be believed? If they are then surely my poll should be too. 

 

 

[soi3eddie]

12 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Eddie : How Many ?

The Pandemic came AFTER   Brexit , No one could have left during the pandemic before Brexit, because the Pandemic happened a few weeks AFTER Brexit had happened 

 

The Brexit vote was determined in June 2016. The date that Brexit came into full effect and UK immigration rules changed, was 1st January 2021. At this time EU citizens had to apply to live in the UK unless they already had settled status. Quite some time after the first wave of Covid-19 pandemic which started in early 2020 forcing workplace closures and lockdowns. This caused many citizens around the world to flee to their home countries and travel restrictions prevented many from returning.

 

[billd766]

21 hours ago, puchooay said:

The idea of Brexit is not over. It likely never will be, unless in the future UK rejoin. Hence it cannot be labeled  a failure or a success in it's entirety 

 

The pole could have said "thus far" or "so far" on the end of each option. That would have made all options answerable.

 

 

 

 

That is why I didn't bother to take part.

 

Posters seem to think that a result like Brexit is simple, easy and completed in a short time.

 

Promises were made on the answers known at the time, but nobody, not even Nostradamus can predict world results with any accuracy. 

 

Who in 2007 predicted the 2008 financial crash, or in 2012 predicted Brexit, or Covid?

 

Who indeed back in 2016 could have predicted the Russia/Ukraine war?

 

All people can do is make plans with the information at the time.

If the information changes subsequently, then either the plans have to change, or you have to live with unpredictable results.

[Sheryl]

Baiting, trolling and bickering posts have been removed

[RayC]

3 hours ago, puchooay said:

Not at all.

 

What it does show, to those who can think for themselves, is that personal experiences show that what we read may not be true to everyone.

 

Polls have been mentioned on here many times. Some posters using them to try to prove a point. I did a poll of 5 EU citizens I work with. They all said Brexit was not an issue with them as they had the correct documentation and made the applications they needed to in plenty of time.

 

So, what is so different? The polls are published and there is a link. Is there a link to each individual that was polled? NO. Do we know they said what the poll said? NO. Are polls to be believed? If they are then surely my poll should be too. 

 

 

Anyone with a passing knowledge of statistics (sampling/ survey design) will know that you cannot possibly draw any conclusions from a (non-randomised) sample size of 4 when the total population  - # of EU nationals living in the UK - is 3.9million!

[ozimoron]

4 hours ago, puchooay said:

Not at all.

 

What it does show, to those who can think for themselves, is that personal experiences show that what we read may not be true to everyone.

 

Polls have been mentioned on here many times. Some posters using them to try to prove a point. I did a poll of 5 EU citizens I work with. They all said Brexit was not an issue with them as they had the correct documentation and made the applications they needed to in plenty of time.

 

So, what is so different? The polls are published and there is a link. Is there a link to each individual that was polled? NO. Do we know they said what the poll said? NO. Are polls to be believed? If they are then surely my poll should be too.

Your "poll" is not a poll, it's an anecdote. The right wing cling to them because they don't have a lot of credible evidence.

[Mac Mickmanus]

27 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

Your "poll" is not a poll, it's an anecdote. The right wing cling to them because they don't have a lot of credible evidence.

Deleted , 

Edited January 1, 2023 by Mac Mickmanus
could nt be be bothered going on about the left wing and the right wing again 

[puchooay]

40 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

Your "poll" is not a poll, it's an anecdote. The right wing cling to them because they don't have a lot of credible evidence.

I'm more centrist. That makes your comment inane.

 

 

[puchooay]

54 minutes ago, RayC said:

Anyone with a passing knowledge of statistics (sampling/ survey design) will know that you cannot possibly draw any conclusions from a (non-randomised) sample size of 4 when the total population  - # of EU nationals living in the UK - is 3.9million!

Same as the poll that the remainers were all over because they liked it. I believe the sample was 1000. What's the population of UK?

 

Anyway, you are 20% out.

[ozimoron]

2 minutes ago, puchooay said:

I'm more centrist. That makes your comment inane.

On my ignore list

[Caldera]

I can understand how certain people got tricked into believing it will be a success and voted Leave as a result.

 

But just how deluded would you need to be to still see it as a success even NOW? It's evidently and very obviously a complete and utter failure.

[RayC]

3 hours ago, puchooay said:

Same as the poll that the remainers were all over because they liked it. I believe the sample was 1000. What's the population of UK?

 

Anyway, you are 20% out.

As a rule of thumb, the larger the sample size the more confident one can be in the results. However, a sample size of 1000 might be sufficient to draw conclusions. It depends what was the hypothesis and on factors such as confidence intervals and standard error.

 

Not sure what I'm meant to be 20% out on (Presumably, the number of EU citizens in the UK?)? Whether true or not, it doesn't negate my points.

[Chomper Higgot]

For the BREXIT supporters who have a loathing of polls, here’s another to add reason to your aversion:

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-poll-referendum-rejoin-eu-b2250813.html

[nauseus]

On 1/1/2023 at 3:23 AM, soi3eddie said:

I agree entirely. I'm British, I voted to Brexit based on what the government at the time promised. I was somewhat surprised at the Brexit result. Disappointed at the reality. Mostly on the EU laws which subsequently got adopted wholesale and not reversed. 

Beleiving that Britain was strong enough to prosper. Who knew that things would turn as they did. Our negotiator, David Davis under prime minister Theresa May was a total waste of time. Could Not  negotiate himself out of a paper bag!  

Covid-19 was a gift to the government to cover up Brexit failures, and as many Europeans fled the UK back to their homelands after not securing UK settled status (despite being qualified, but not claimed), they are still unable to return to the UK and work without visa/work permit. This has presented UK employers with issues and many businesses in the UK remain short staffed and facing failure as a result.

For UK business exporting to the EU, then it has been nothing short of a disaster! Red tape and regulations abound. I'm not one to apportion blame, save to say if we want to move forward then we have to do what is neccessary. 

Myself and many others are simply looking to exit the UK and head permanently to Thailand. We are fed up with all the B.S here. Brexit has been a failure IMO whether UK based or Expat.

 

 

I was also surprised at the referendum result but, as most here know, I was happy with it. That said, Brexit itself has been a messy disaster, so far, but I'm not sure that could have been avoided, given the weak negotiating route adopted by Theresa May combined with the belligerent stance taken by the EU. So much for "good faith". 

 

EU laws were rolled into UK law to provide legal continuity and certainty in the aftermath of Brexit. The Retained EU Law (Revocation and Reform) Bill 2022-23 will hopefully deal with the revocation of such laws.

 

The Brexit Secretary, David Davis, was totally undermined by Theresa May, as she allowed her fellow Europhile, Ollie Robbins, to be her effective chief negotiator. Finally, after May came back from meeting Merkel, with the soon-to-fail Chequers Plan , Davis resigned after he saw what had been going on.

 

But is all this "B.S" in the UK today all due to Brexit being a failure or just a succession of poor national governments?

 

After nearly 50 years in then the true success (or not) of Brexit cannot be fairly measured until a similar period has passed. On the bright side, that means most of us won't have to worry about the answer.

 

Edited January 2, 2023 by nauseus

[Chomper Higgot]

2 hours ago, nauseus said:

After nearly 50 years in then the true success (or not) of Brexit cannot be fairly measured until a similar period has passed. On the bright side, that means most of us won't have to worry about the answer.

 

The time it takes to determine a decision was a mistake is not related to anything other than the outcome of the decision.

 

On another bright side, Brexit supporters are ‘fading away’ faster than are Remain supporters.

 

You should give up all hope of 50 years.

[youreavinalaff]

2 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The time it takes to determine a decision was a mistake is not related to anything other than the outcome of the decision.

 

On another bright side, Brexit supporters are ‘fading away’ faster than are Remain supporters.

 

You should give up all hope of 50 years.

There is no mention in the poll about mistakes.

 

The question is whether Brexit is a success or failure. 

 

Something that is impossible to answer in its entirety right now.

 

How long until we will know? It's,a piece of string.

[Chomper Higgot]

29 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

There is no mention in the poll about mistakes.

 

The question is whether Brexit is a success or failure. 

 

Something that is impossible to answer in its entirety right now.

 

How long until we will know? It's,a piece of string.

And a clear majority regard it a failure, results above.

[youreavinalaff]

9 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

And a clear majority regard it a failure, results above.

Erroneously, as I pointed out. It cannot be deemed a failure as it, currently, is infinite. 

 

Should it come to an end, UK rejoin???, everyone can then look back and comment.

 

 

 

[Bluespunk]

5 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

Erroneously, as I pointed out. It cannot be deemed a failure as it, currently, is infinite. 

 

Should it come to an end, UK rejoin???, everyone can then look back and comment.

 

 

 

Nope, we can comment on the negative impact brexit is having on the uk economy whenever it is relevant to a thread.

[youreavinalaff]

47 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

Nope, we can comment on the negative impact brexit is having on the uk economy whenever it is relevant to a thread.

I didn't say you can't. That was my point.

 

 

[Bluespunk]

6 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

I didn't say you can't. That was my point.

 

 

Good, we are clear then.