Cabinet approves tourist fee of 150-300 baht for all foreign tourists

[bradiston]

46 minutes ago, nigelforbes said:

A Pavlovian response, a new tax must mean more corruption, really!

 

How about the real reason is the degree of hospital bills that remain unpaid, that was the original purpose of the levy. And how about comparing tourist/airport surcharges levied around the world and realizing that Thailand remains very low. 

 

https://www.pattayamail.com/latestnews/news/destitute-foreigners-in-thailand-and-unpaid-hospital-bills-360259

Only 30 THB of the 300 THB is slated for "unpaid medical bills", the source of which seems unclear. So 10%. As usual, a data desert. Perhaps the hospitals just write them off, compensating already via premium rates for medical tourists and other foreigners. They quote 450m THB in lost fees. Who knows? Certainly not the hapless tourist. 450m doesn't seem a staggeringly huge amount considering the number of private hospitals here, 370 according to this article:

 

https://www.krungsri.com/en/research/industry/industry-outlook/Services/Private-Hospitals/IO/io-Private-Hospitals

 

450,000,000 / 370 = 1,200,000 THB

 

Not exactly going to break the bank. If divided by the number of private clinics, or indeed, all medical facilities, the figure shrinks to one of total insignificance.

 

Also , from the same article:

 

"93.1% of patients were Thai citizens and 6.9% were foreign nationals (Figure 6); the latter group comprised expatriates (1.4%) and general and medical tourists (5.5%)[6]. The foreign nationals were mostly from Myanmar, Japan, the Middle East and Europe."

Edited February 15, 2023 by bradiston

[nigelforbes]

1 minute ago, bradiston said:

Only 30 THB of the 300 THB is slated for "unpaid medical bills", the source of which seems unclear. So 10%. As usual, a data desert. Perhaps the hospitals just write them off, compensating already via premium rates for medical tourists and other foreigners. They quote 40m THB in lost fees. Who knows? Certainly not the hapless tourist. 40m doesn't seem a staggeringly huge amount considering the number of private hospitals here, 370 according to this article:

 

https://www.krungsri.com/en/research/industry/industry-outlook/Services/Private-Hospitals/IO/io-Private-Hospitals

 

40,000,000 / 370 = 108,000.

 

Not exactly going to break the bank. If divided by the number of private clinics, or indeed, all medical facilities, the figure shrinks to one of total insignificance.

 

(Awaiting edit)

Those writes offs are for GOVERNEMNT hospitals, not private hospitals which are completely out of scope. It is government hospitals that are funded by the government and tax revenue, private hospitals are private businesses. Health care costs in 2019 was 6.8% of GDP or USD 36.6 bill. Whether or not only 10% of the new charge will go towards recovery of those costs, is very unclear. 

 

https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SH.XPD.CHEX.GD.ZS?locations=TH

[Resident Alien]

Although I do not agree with this tourist fee, there is not a lot you can do about it.

9 pages complaining about 300 thb.

Same as with the departure fee, the complaints about entry fee will slowly fade away.

 

[bradiston]

11 minutes ago, nigelforbes said:

Those writes offs are for GOVERNEMNT hospitals, not private hospitals which are completely out of scope. It is government hospitals that are funded by the government and tax revenue, private hospitals are private businesses. Health care costs in 2019 was 6.8% of GDP or USD 36.6 bill. Whether or not only 10% of the new charge will go towards recovery of those costs, is very unclear. 

 

https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SH.XPD.CHEX.GD.ZS?locations=TH

Ah, apologies. In that case, why isn't the UK government charging all overseas visitors £10 to help fund the NHS, as the problem there is quite in a different league? I'm coming round to approving the 300 THB levy. Just can't figure out how they're going to do it, except by a universal addition to ticket price, refundable in exempted cases.

 

I couldn't find figures for losses by public medical facilities here in Thailand due to non payment by foreigners. Not sure the government here has its finger on the pulse either haha.

[nigelforbes]

2 minutes ago, bradiston said:

Ah, apologies. In that case, why isn't the UK government charging all overseas visitors £10 to help fund the NHS, as the problem there is quite in a different league? I'm coming round to approving the 300 THB levy. Just can't figure out how they're going to do it, except by a universal addition to ticket price, refundable in exempted cases.

 

I couldn't find figures for losses by public medical facilities here in Thailand due to non payment by foreigners. Not sure the government here has its finger on the pulse either haha.

The reality is that unpaid medical bills by Westerners, at government hospitals, is almost certainly very low when compared to losses by them from citizens of other  countries in the region. Citizens of Myanmar are a particular problem in places such as Phuket where there are large numbers of documented and undocumented Burmese, few of whom have medical insurance - the number of workers at one point was in six figures. Most of the losses at one of the government hospitals there appears to be from them. But trying to tax poor Burmese workers is a non-starter hence paying such charges is a job reserved specifically for Westerners.

[bradiston]

3 minutes ago, nigelforbes said:

The reality is that unpaid medical bills by Westerners, at government hospitals, is almost certainly very low when compared to losses by them from citizens of other  countries in the region. Citizens of Myanmar are a particular problem in places such as Phuket where there are large numbers of documented and undocumented Burmese, few of whom have medical insurance - the number of workers at one point was in six figures. Most of the losses at one of the government hospitals there appears to be from them. But trying to tax poor Burmese workers is a non-starter hence paying such charges is a job reserved specifically for Westerners.

Agreed. I don't have a problem with subsidising health care for already underprivileged and exploited people, but wonder if my possibly twice a year trips abroad ie 60 THB's worth of subsidy, is going to make a huge difference. Perhaps the private sector could contribute? From figures quoted above, 35% of their revenue comes from pharmaceutical sales, not surgery or medical services. They're just glorified over priced pharmacies. Prices of some medicines here are in some cases, outrageous. We're already taxed to the eyeballs.

 

From the same article quoted above:

 

https://www.krungsri.com/en/research/industry/industry-outlook/Services/Private-Hospitals/IO/io-Private-Hospitals

 

"The largest share (35.2%) of private hospitals’ revenue is derived from the sale of medicines and pharmaceuticals. This is followed by medical treatment/services (20.0%), laboratory tests and x-rays (13.7%), accommodation fees (8.5%), and other revenues (22.6%) (Figure 5)."

 

Also, only 35% of medical establishments in Thailand operate in the public sector, ie are government funded. This one will run and run.

[jacko45k]

33 minutes ago, Resident Alien said:

Same as with the departure fee, the complaints about entry fee will slowly fade away.

Why did it need to be dressed up as a different item than the departure fee? That itself could have simply been raised. Other than the so far rumored issue that the 300 baht will not apply to Thais or Work Permit holders, we seem to be adding some complicated administration. 

[Resident Alien]

11 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

Why did it need to be dressed up as a different item than the departure fee?

Because there is a difference between arrival and departure. 

[quake]

Anything over 35 baht, is just a money grab.

TIT.

 

[jacko45k]

17 minutes ago, Resident Alien said:

Because there is a difference between arrival and departure. 

No xxxx Sherlock.... but it is a surcharge on travelers either way! 

You have not answered the question.

(Is it because tourists arriving are likely to have more money and Thailand needs to get them used to parting with it asap?)

Edited February 16, 2023 by jacko45k

[Paul Catton]

How they will implement this levy for collection could be a mission and half.

It can't really be included in the purchase of the ticket as that would set it at odds with laws pertaining to "discrimination" in many overseas countries where the tickets would be purchased.

Perhaps if it was included in all tickets, (as is the departure tax} with a discounted refund on arrival for eligible passengers, would be possible.

"Queue here for your refund after exiting Immigration".

 

Pay at a kiosk on arrival.

Approximately 62% of passenger arrivals to Thailand are processed through Suvarnabhumi Airport (AOT- Report 2019)

 

With 25,000,000 tourists being touted from the crystal ball, Suvarnabhumi equates to 42,465 per day, 1769 an hour, which is a passenger every two seconds.

 

So how many kiosks will be available and manned, also how quick will be the process of collection with all the variables that may come into play?

Only having US$, GBP, Peruvian Sol, Zambian Kwacha as the threshold of equivalent currency.  

Not having QR payment, Paywave etc.  

 

Let the fun and games (not) begin.  

[Smokey and the Bandit]

2 hours ago, SuperSilverHaze said:

On the last trip which was admittedly many years ago I recall just getting stamped in on arrival (US/western countries) no?

No, it all changed after Covid. Now all US\Westerners must purchase a VOA, at said cost of 35USD and you can stay for 30 days, you can extend for another 30 days. If from Singapore, Thailand etc you just get stamped in for 30 days.

[Hummin]

45 minutes ago, Paul Catton said:

How they will implement this levy for collection could be a mission and half.

It can't really be included in the purchase of the ticket as that would set it at odds with laws pertaining to "discrimination" in many overseas countries where the tickets would be purchased.

Perhaps if it was included in all tickets, (as is the departure tax} with a discounted refund on arrival for eligible passengers, would be possible.

"Queue here for your refund after exiting Immigration".

 

Pay at a kiosk on arrival.

Approximately 62% of passenger arrivals to Thailand are processed through Suvarnabhumi Airport (AOT- Report 2019)

 

With 25,000,000 tourists being touted from the crystal ball, Suvarnabhumi equates to 42,465 per day, 1769 an hour, which is a passenger every two seconds.

 

So how many kiosks will be available and manned, also how quick will be the process of collection with all the variables that may come into play?

Only having US$, GBP, Peruvian Sol, Zambian Kwacha as the threshold of equivalent currency.  

Not having QR payment, Paywave etc.  

 

Let the fun and games (not) begin.  

App and website will possible be the solution with kiosks at the airports. 

[Resident Alien]

1 hour ago, jacko45k said:

You have not answered the question.

Yes xxxx Sherlock,

I did reply to your question.

You did not like the answer you received.

 

[bradiston]

1 hour ago, Paul Catton said:

How they will implement this levy for collection could be a mission and half.

It can't really be included in the purchase of the ticket as that would set it at odds with laws pertaining to "discrimination" in many overseas countries where the tickets would be purchased.

Perhaps if it was included in all tickets, (as is the departure tax} with a discounted refund on arrival for eligible passengers, would be possible.

"Queue here for your refund after exiting Immigration".

 

Pay at a kiosk on arrival.

Approximately 62% of passenger arrivals to Thailand are processed through Suvarnabhumi Airport (AOT- Report 2019)

 

With 25,000,000 tourists being touted from the crystal ball, Suvarnabhumi equates to 42,465 per day, 1769 an hour, which is a passenger every two seconds.

 

So how many kiosks will be available and manned, also how quick will be the process of collection with all the variables that may come into play?

Only having US$, GBP, Peruvian Sol, Zambian Kwacha as the threshold of equivalent currency.  

Not having QR payment, Paywave etc.  

 

Let the fun and games (not) begin.  

My vote is for across the board levy, then exemption refund at a later date by whatever means the Thai government comes up with. 7? Website? Tax credit? Truth is, booking systems worldwide would need to be updated, and at what cost? Keep it simple. Sort it out later.

 

And as several posters have pointed out, they weren't asked for passport or nationality let alone work permit details on booking, and presumably, payment, so how to differentiate exclusions? The levy can't be added to the ticket price AFTER purchase. And paying at check-in? Nightmare scenario, as at arrivals. What difference would it make adding it to the ticket price, except to speed up the whole process?

 

Nah. Shoot first. Ask questions later! So long as passengers are informed of the levy in advance and how to reclaim it if applicable later, all will be well. Trust me. I'm your MP/TAT/MoPh spokesman.

Edited February 16, 2023 by bradiston

[richard_smith237]

8 hours ago, Bangkocker said:

Well in response, you want to go to Bali ?? then you will pay $50 for visa on arrival (it used to be free). If the destination serves your need then 10 bucks is a storm in a teacup. The officials are not being greedy. Now if the fee was say 100,200,300,400 $$ then yes 'maybe' that would initiate a re-think.

Fair point about ‘if the destination serves’…,  probably the reason I’ve been in Thailand for 25 years and have no interest in traveling to Bali, the greed for the shirts off the tourists back is off-putting (based on info from friends etc)…. 
… areas like Raja Amapat are worth it. 
 

I also agree it’s a storm in a teacup….  But the tea cup contains the essence of the underlying attitude towards foreigners by those in positions of decision making power, it’s that which penetrates the nostrils with an unfavorable stench. 

[richard_smith237]

14 hours ago, Neeranam said:

They can't do that, what about Thais flying in? 

Agreed… so there will be extra ‘ticket booths’ for ‘foreign tourist’ to pay… extra queues to add to the already frequently criticized queueing at immigration. 
 

Not exactly tourist friendly… 

[Neeranam]

3 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Agreed… so there will be extra ‘ticket booths’ for ‘foreign tourist’ to pay… extra queues to add to the already frequently criticized queueing at immigration. 
 

Not exactly tourist friendly… 

Tourist don't think about that when booking their trip, what's 30 minutes when you are going to have 2 weeks on a tropical beach, or in the Pink Pussy bar. 

 

 

[richard_smith237]

14 hours ago, Neeranam said:

If she is Thai and you're British , she's charged over 6,000 baht for a visa for a short holiday. Not very fair having all these British tourists paying nothing. 

Selective bias again Neeransm.
My Wife has a 10 year visa… cost is about 3500 per year…. 
How much is a 10 year visa for Thailand, Thai Elite anyone ? 
 

There are pro’s & cons from both angles, but your selective reasoning does nothing to polish the negativity of this ‘charge the tourists extra’ policy.

 

The ‘City tax’ is a better option IF there must be a charge… but really, attracting more tourists with better services is by far a winning strategy…. 

Edited February 16, 2023 by richard_smith237

[richard_smith237]

1 minute ago, Neeranam said:

Tourist don't think about that when booking their trip, what's 30 minutes when you are going to have 2 weeks on a tropical beach, or in the Pink Pussy bar. 

 

 

Give a ‘free beer ticket’ see more tourists arriving as word spreads !!! 
 

of course, silly idea… but people do get pi$$ed off with extra queuing & that publicity is not good. 

[Neeranam]

2 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Selective bias again Neeransm.
My Wife has a 10 year visa… cost is about 3500 per year…. 
How much is a 19 year visa for Thailand, Thai Elite anyone ? 
 

There are pro’s & cons from both angles, but your selective reasoning does nothing to polish the negativity of this ‘charge the tourists extra’ policy.

 

The ‘City tax’ is a better option IF there must be a charge… but really, attracting more tourists with better services is by far a winning strategy…. 

I meant the price for a visa for a two-week tourist. 

A long-term visa for Thailand is only 1900 baht. 

 

'selective bias' my ****

 

You think Thailand should encourage tourists by letting them come free, unlike nearly all other countries in the world? Why? Maybe so sad Thai bashers can moan online with their breakfast?

[richard_smith237]

1 hour ago, Smokey and the Bandit said:

No, it all changed after Covid. Now all US\Westerners must purchase a VOA, at said cost of 35USD and you can stay for 30 days, you can extend for another 30 days. If from Singapore, Thailand etc you just get stamped in for 30 days.

??? visa exempt stamp on arrival abolished ???? Hmmmm sure about that ???

 

Its 45 days on arrival for many qualifying nationals (US / EU / Brit / Aus / Japan etc). 

[Neeranam]

4 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Give a ‘free beer ticket’ see more tourists arriving as word spreads !!! 
 

of course, silly idea… but people do get pi$$ed off with extra queuing & that publicity is not good. 

True, but you'll find the ones complaining are long-term expats that are stuck here for financial reasons. 

[richard_smith237]

1 minute ago, Neeranam said:

I meant the price for a visa for a two-week tourist. 

A long-term visa for Thailand is only 1900 baht. 

 

'selective bias' my ****

 

You think Thailand should encourage tourists by letting them come free, unlike nearly all other countries in the world? Why? Maybe so sad Thai bashers can moan online with their breakfast?

I do..,    A county which relies so heavily on Tourism (approx 20% GDP) should be doing everything it can to attract… so more tourists come & more spend here…. 
 

 

[Neeranam]

1 minute ago, richard_smith237 said:

I do..,    A county which relies so heavily on Tourism (approx 20% GDP) should be doing everything it can to attract… so more tourists come & more spend here…. 
 

 

Nowhere near 20%, maybe 12-15%. 

[richard_smith237]

4 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

I meant the price for a visa for a two-week tourist. 

A long-term visa for Thailand is only 1900 baht. 

 

'selective bias' my ****

 

You think Thailand should encourage tourists by letting them come free, unlike nearly all other countries in the world? Why? Maybe so sad Thai bashers can moan online with their breakfast?

I do..,    A county which relies so heavily on Tourism (approx 20% GDP) should be doing everything it can to attract… so more tourists come & more spend here…. 
 

Thai’s get 2 weeks in Japan…..

 

A positive message is better for tourism. 

[richard_smith237]

8 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Nowhere near 20%, maybe 12-15%. 

Debatable & depends which economic reports have been read.  
 

20% pre-Covid…. Now obviously less - which is why Thailand needs to work so hard to attract tourists & send the right ‘welcome’ message.

That doesn’t mean rolling out a red carpet, but adding charges is extremely clumsy in the current climate. 

Edited February 16, 2023 by richard_smith237

[Paul Catton]

11 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

True, but you'll find the ones complaining are long-term expats that are stuck here for financial reasons. 

As a tourist

 

After travelling to Thailand that can take up to 12-14 hours, the last thing I want to face is being stuck in an immigration queue followed by an "arrival levy kiosk " queue for hours.

 

 

[Neeranam]

Just now, Paul Catton said:

As a tourist

 

After travelling to Thailand that can take up to 12-14 hours, the last thing I want to face is being stuck in an immigration queue followed by an "arrival levy kiosk " queue for hours.

 

 

Fair enough, where will you travel to instead?

[Smokey and the Bandit]

20 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

??? visa exempt stamp on arrival abolished ???? Hmmmm sure about that ???

 

Its 45 days on arrival for many qualifying nationals (US / EU / Brit / Aus / Japan etc). 

I was answering a question about Indonesia, at least so I thought?