Industry Ministry seeks help to curb sugarcane burning

[snoop1130]

 

Thailand’s Ministry of Industry is seeking cooperation from the Ministry of Interior and the Ministry of Natural Resources and Environment to tackle the problem of sugarcane burning, as many sugarcane farmers are defying the ban on burning, while millers continue to buy burnt cane.

 

According to the Office of the Sugarcane and Sugar Committee, burnt sugarcane now accounts for 23 million tonnes (31%) of the 75 million tonne total output, since the 2022-23 harvest began on December 1st.

 

The extensive burning of sugarcane also contributes to the increase of PM2.5 in the atmosphere in the cane-growing and other provinces, including Bangkok.

 

Full Story: https://www.thaipbsworld.com/industry-ministry-seeks-help-to-curb-sugarcane-burning/

 

-- © Copyright Thai PBS 2023-02-27

 

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[blackcab]

1 hour ago, snoop1130 said:

...while millers continue to buy burnt cane

 

Punish millers severely for buying burnt cane and the problem would not exist.

[Mickeymaus]

Perhaps something like this to send a message. Chemicals and colors can be added. 

 

[Thailand]

Massive fines  of the owners of the land where the burning takes place, not just sugar cane fields.

 

 

Edited February 27, 2023 by Thailand

[zzaa09]

As raw cane leftovers doesn't decay or decompose very fast [reasons why they don't sow it back into the ground], it might be wise for this particular ministry, and the farmers, to set up waste collection stations where such post-harvest materials can be turned into a mulchy mix and eventually distributed as an additive to all farmers in the area. 

 

Wouldn't be terribly costly - across the board - as everyone [farmers, govt, whomever] pitches in to contribute to the benefit of the local commons.

[KannikaP]

It's very difficult to hide a 100 hectare fire and subsequent smoke. It is simply the authorities/police not caring or giving a monkey's about it.

[PremiumLane]

They need to help farmers get the machinery needed for harvesting, or help them with wages for more labour. Just fining them isn't going to do anything, they burn it cos it is cheaper to do that, or they can't afford other methods. 

 

[zzaa09]

30 minutes ago, KannikaP said:

It's very difficult to hide a 100 hectare fire and subsequent smoke. It is simply the authorities/police not caring or giving a monkey's about it.

They burn because they don't have [or not offered] alternatives....

[edwinchester]

1 hour ago, Thailand said:

Massive fines  of the owners of the land where the burning takes place, not just sugar cane fields.

 

 

Bit harsh on the growers who don't want to burn but have their crop torched by the cutting team who just want to do a quick job and move on to the next.

Easiest solution is to make it illegal to buy burnt cane. The problem would disappear overnight.

[edwinchester]

22 minutes ago, PremiumLane said:

They need to help farmers get the machinery needed for harvesting, or help them with wages for more labour. Just fining them isn't going to do anything, they burn it cos it is cheaper to do that, or they can't afford other methods. 

 

It's not cheaper. My wife's friend makes more money selling an unburnt crop. It's the cutting teams who want to burn as it's quicker to do the job so they move onto the next and make more money.

[kickstart]

1 hour ago, zzaa09 said:

They burn because they don't have [or not offered] alternatives....

The alternative a sugar cane harvester, in our area we have a lot, and no cane is burnt before machine cutting, as the op said they are expensive secondhand import 2million, the big grower buys them, then they contract out to the smaller farmers charging per ton rate to cut and haul to the mill.

In our area they are becoming more common give it a few more years they will be all around the country.

Where you get raw cane leftovers from, I do not know they is none, the only left over is the leaves that the cutter leave, or the machine leaves around here and a few other areas it is baled, our straw goes to the mill where it is used for fuel to boil up the molasses, our farmers this year are getting 900 baht/ton for baled straw. 

[zzaa09]

4 minutes ago, kickstart said:

The alternative a sugar cane harvester, in our area we have a lot, and no cane is burnt before machine cutting, as the op said they are expensive secondhand import 2million, the big grower buys them, then they contract out to the smaller farmers charging per ton rate to cut and haul to the mill.

In our area they are becoming more common give it a few more years they will be all around the country.

Where you get raw cane leftovers from, I do not know they is none, the only left over is the leaves that the cutter leave, or the machine leaves around here and a few other areas it is baled, our straw goes to the mill where it is used for fuel to boil up the molasses, our farmers this year are getting 900 baht/ton for baled straw. 

A positive and constructive note, but the downside is that the overwhelming percentage of cane farmers can't even imagine to afford such a decent practice.........unless acting as a collective along with govt subsidies. 

[Gknrd]

Never happen in Thailand.  Best to avoid Thailand for several months a year. 

[bradiston]

"Thailand’s Ministry of Industry is seeking cooperation from the Ministry of Interior and the Ministry of Natural Resources and Environment to tackle the problem of sugarcane burning, as many sugarcane farmers are defying the ban on burning, while millers continue to buy burnt cane.

 

According to the Office of the Sugarcane and Sugar Committee, burnt sugarcane now accounts for 23 million tonnes (31%) of the 75 million tonne total output, since the 2022-23 harvest began on December 1^st."

 

So you've got 3 government ministries plus a government committee, or office thereof, all passing the buck back and forth. No mention of the Agriculture Ministry, the Health and Safety Executive, Farmer's Weekly nor the Free Willy Campaign. No wonder nothing gets done!

[Tarteso]

7 minutes ago, bradiston said:

Thailand’s Ministry of Industry is seeking cooperation from the Ministry of Interior and the Ministry of Natural Resources and

Blah blah..

[spidermike007]

The extensive burning of sugarcane also contributes to the increase of PM2.5 in the atmosphere in the cane-growing and other provinces, including Bangkok.

 

Huh? Was that tongue in cheek, or was that a serious statement? It is likely the single largest contributing factor. It causes deaths, COPD, lung disease, and lowers the quality of life for all. And it would be an easy fix. If the goons were serious about the well being of the public, for once in their lives. 

 

There is a very simple solution to this problem. If the authorities were interested in solutions. The burning has to stop. There are alternatives, to this 19th century technique of burning after the sugar cane harvest. Either the government starts to encourage farmers to switch to more environmentally friendly crops, or they start to penalize farmers for burning. This heinous burning, is leading to a tremendous degree of environmental degradation, and alot of lung disease. So here is what I propose-

 

1. Fine the farmers 5,000 baht for a first offense, and give them a stern warning, that burning is now prohibited, and the second fine will be very harsh.

2. For a second offense, fine the farmer 100,000 baht, and warn them that if the burning continues, their land will be confiscated.

3. On the 3rd offense, confiscate their land. Period. No questions. No legal proceeding or appeals on the part of the farmers. Allow others to come in and purchase the land at a fair price, with the caveat that sugar is prohibited as a crop to be grown on that land.

The news would travel faster than the toxic smoke, and farmers would change their ways overnight, and move into the 21st century.

 

[zzaa09]

10 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

The extensive burning of sugarcane also contributes to the increase of PM2.5 in the atmosphere in the cane-growing and other provinces, including Bangkok.

 

Huh? Was that tongue in cheek, or was that a serious statement? It is likely the single largest contributing factor. It causes deaths, COPD, lung disease, and lowers the quality of life for all. And it would be an easy fix. If the goons were serious about the well being of the public, for once in their lives. 

 

There is a very simple solution to this problem. If the authorities were interested in solutions. The burning has to stop. There are alternatives, to this 19th century technique of burning after the sugar cane harvest. Either the government starts to encourage farmers to switch to more environmentally friendly crops, or they start to penalize farmers for burning. This heinous burning, is leading to a tremendous degree of environmental degradation, and alot of lung disease. So here is what I propose-

 

1. Fine the farmers 5,000 baht for a first offense, and give them a stern warning, that burning is now prohibited, and the second fine will be very harsh.

2. For a second offense, fine the farmer 100,000 baht, and warn them that if the burning continues, their land will be confiscated.

3. On the 3rd offense, confiscate their land. Period. No questions. No legal proceeding or appeals on the part of the farmers. Allow others to come in and purchase the land at a fair price, with the caveat that sugar is prohibited as a crop to be grown on that land.

The news would travel faster than the toxic smoke, and farmers would change their ways overnight, and move into the 21st century.

 

Move into the 21st century. 

What does this mean?

[PremiumLane]

12 hours ago, edwinchester said:

It's not cheaper. My wife's friend makes more money selling an unburnt crop. It's the cutting teams who want to burn as it's quicker to do the job so they move onto the next and make more money.

But still better if they subsidize for those machines 

[Burma Bill]

17 hours ago, blackcab said:

Punish millers severely for buying burnt cane

Sadly, this will never happen. Mitr Phol has too much clout in Bangkok!

 

Mitr Phol is ranked as the world's fifth largest sugar producer,^[2] and the largest producer in Asia. It is Thailand's largest sugar producer and the second largest in China through its joint venture company East Asia Sugar. In addition to Thailand and China, Mitr Phol has operations and investments in Lao PDR, Cambodia, and most recently Australia (Wikipedia)

[hotchilli]

19 hours ago, snoop1130 said:

According to the Office of the Sugarcane and Sugar Committee, burnt sugarcane now accounts for 23 million tonnes (31%) of the 75 million tonne total output, since the 2022-23 harvest began on December 1st.

 

The extensive burning of sugarcane also contributes to the increase of PM2.5 in the atmosphere in the cane-growing and other provinces, including Bangkok.

The government could stop this overnight...

but they don't give a rats ar$e

[jonclark]

5 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

 

 

1. Fine the farmers 5,000 baht for a first offense, and give them a stern warning, that burning is now prohibited, and the second fine will be very harsh.

2. For a second offense, fine the farmer 100,000 baht, and warn them that if the burning continues, their land will be confiscated.

3. On the 3rd offense, confiscate their land. Period. No questions. No legal proceeding or appeals on the part of the farmers. Allow others to come in and purchase the land at a fair price, with the caveat that sugar is prohibited as a crop to be grown on that land.

The news would travel faster than the toxic smoke, and farmers would change their ways overnight, and move into the 21st century.

 

Good ideas, but you cannot no matter how righteous just steal another persons land and then deny them recourse to the law. Once you start down that dark alley, well you are on the path to total authoritarianism. 

 

The framers are doing this for economic reasons. I think before we all (correctly) tell farmers to stop burning sugar cane we should go and spend a day or two in the fields chopping the dam stuff down under a baking sun for a pittance. Maybe we would understand why then it is burnt and not cut. Understand the problem is the first step to solving it. 

 

 

[4MyEgo]

18 hours ago, KannikaP said:

It's very difficult to hide a 100 hectare fire and subsequent smoke. It is simply the authorities/police not caring or giving a monkey's about it.

Exactly, why just the other day whilst driving back from the shops I saw a huge black cloud of smoke, then I saw a cop car behind me with lights flashing overtake me, a couple of kilometres ahead, I saw that the cop had pulled over a truck, for what reason I have no idea, but not to far in the distant, anyone could see the fires flames and thick smoke.

 

If the cops don't care and if they are getting money to turn a blind eye, then they don't stand a chance in hell of stopping the burning.

 

As someone else mentioned, fine the millers heavily, but no doubt they also pay people off, add to that a special task force to deliver results and you might actually see something happening, but leaving it in the hands of the local cops and authorities is a waste of time.

[spidermike007]

6 hours ago, zzaa09 said:

Move into the 21st century. 

What does this mean?

It means progress. Burning crops is so 14th century. When it fouls the air to the extent it does here, something needs to be done. And soon. 

[spidermike007]

52 minutes ago, jonclark said:

Good ideas, but you cannot no matter how righteous just steal another persons land and then deny them recourse to the law. Once you start down that dark alley, well you are on the path to total authoritarianism. 

 

The framers are doing this for economic reasons. I think before we all (correctly) tell farmers to stop burning sugar cane we should go and spend a day or two in the fields chopping the dam stuff down under a baking sun for a pittance. Maybe we would understand why then it is burnt and not cut. Understand the problem is the first step to solving it. 

 

 

Exactly. It is money over health. Money over the well being of the masses. Money over change and progress. 

 

Ultimately, the choice to burn sugarcane comes down to money: leaving leaf trash attached to the canes means hauling more material to the processing plant. This requires more trips and more time in processing, which is expensive. Other green harvesting methods, like removing trash in the field, require additional equipment and attention, both of which cut into profits.

 

https://foodprint.org/blog/sugarcane-burning/

 

[JonnyF]

Let's hope they do.

 

They appeared at the land next to our place at 10pm the other day. Scurried in like a load of rats and set fire to the field next to our house. No warning for us to move our cars, motorbikes, tractor, gasoline canisters etc. You can see how close it is as there is part of the garage roof in the photo. Lucky the wind direction didn't change. Deeply irresponsible.

 

[Lee65]

19 hours ago, Thailand said:

Massive fines  of the owners of the land where the burning takes place ...

 

 

That would just result in neighbors burning each others' fields in spite

[chilly07]

2 hours ago, JonnyF said:

Let's hope they do.

 

They appeared at the land next to our place at 10pm the other day. Scurried in like a load of rats and set fire to the field next to our house. No warning for us to move our cars, motorbikes, tractor, gasoline canisters etc. You can see how close it is as there is part of the garage roof in the photo. Lucky the wind direction didn't change. Deeply irresponsible.

 

Farmers in the UK have shotguns to discourage  such behaviour!

In Thailand land owners rent out their land to share croppers so the line of legal responsibility is broken.  Just look at the Nos of fires around Phitsalok on on airiq   Unbelievable! And it's all blowing SW to Chonburi and BKK

[JonnyF]

3 minutes ago, chilly07 said:

Farmers in the UK have shotguns to discourage  such behaviour!

Luckily I was working in BKK at the time as I might have got myself into a sticky situation had I been there.

 

3 minutes ago, chilly07 said:

In Thailand land owners rent out their land to share croppers so the line of legal responsibility is broken.  Just look at the Nos of fires around Phitsalok on on airiq   Unbelievable! And it's all blowing SW to Chonburi and BKK

The owner was present and it was his crop. My gf filmed it all and ripped him to pieces (verbally). Apparently the little scrote was on his knees begging us not to report it to the authorities or put in on social media. We're still discussing the next steps as she doesn't want to create a lifelong fued with him. He's promised not to do it again and cut it instead of burn it next time but I highly doubt he is believable. It would be great if they would just enforce the law but no, they just pontificate and "urge".

[SoilSpoil]

2 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Exactly. It is money over health. Money over the well being of the masses. Money over change and progress. 

 

Ultimately, the choice to burn sugarcane comes down to money: leaving leaf trash attached to the canes means hauling more material to the processing plant. This requires more trips and more time in processing, which is expensive. Other green harvesting methods, like removing trash in the field, require additional equipment and attention, both of which cut into profits.

 

https://foodprint.org/blog/sugarcane-burning/

 

You are right, it's profit over health. The price of sugar, rice, meat and corn in the supermarkets is simply too low, and profit margins too high. Capitalism in a nutshell. 

With 30,000 premature deaths, and hundred thousands of children in hospital during the burn season in Thailand alone,  burning fields for profit should be seen as a criminal offence and any company dealing with criminal farmers should have its license pulled.

 

The laws are in place.

Edited February 28, 2023 by SoilSpoil

[zzaa09]

11 hours ago, PremiumLane said:

But still better if they subsidize for those machines 

Sure.....if govt is gonna be involved in controlling markets they might as well aid in production.

If those that are truly uptight about the burning and whatnot - they need to practice what they preach. 

If not direct subsidies, then encourage govt sponsored community collectives.

Might be a win win for everyone.