Thailand's extreme air pollution: 'I feel sorry for my daughter'

[rudi49jr]

8 hours ago, Henryford said:

I still find it hard to believe that the Thai people and the Thai Government are happy to let the crop farmers burn what they like even though it is killing thousands. In the West they would be having a fit. There must be some serious brown envelopes changing hands.

I’m not quite sure about the brown envelopes. I think it’s more a case that there’s nothing in it for them (the RTP) to start enforcing the law, since it’s mostly poor farmers. I’m also not sure it’s the farmers burning the leftovers of their crops that are doing the most harm: setting fire to the undergrowth in the forests is much worse, IMO. You can see it all over the north, especially at night, the fires slowly advancing through the forests, over the hills and mountains. I think that is the real issue. 

[Simon1287]

9 hours ago, SoilSpoil said:

This smog is nothing less than a crime against humanity. Thailand has 'evolved' into a country where a 15 year old risks a 7 year prison sentencecfor some grafity, but arsonists responsible for thpusands of deaths are ignored. Thailand has turned into a smog and plastic garbage  wasteland, only worth visiting from June to November. 

As someone who has spent the vast majority of the past 30 years in Thailand (Been to 72 of the 77 provinces) I can only agree wholeheartedly. Maybe May is usually okish or not too bad but it's a very inexact science and June is the start of the pretty much guaranteed better air season.

 

Certainly though, even late October can be bad sometimes as I well remember from a bus trip Bangkok to Pattaya in 2017 late evening and seeing heavy "fog" i.e smog in vehicle headlights all the way. 

 

Moved from Pattaya (was there many years) to Phuket in December 2019 to finally escape the air pollution that is around at times. I had been telling myself to move for years and finally did it.

 

Anywhere south of Chumphon is usually better than anywhere north of there at the worst times of year.

 

Phuket was a lot better, as expected, but still a constant haze until the smog season ended in 2020 (about the time I was locked down in Patong I think or a bit after)

 

I popped to JungCeylon Mall and got myself a Hatari air purifier when I arrived in Phuket. Very cheap (3,888 Baht I think with a spare filter) and very easy to get more filters for it when needed.

 

I used 2 of them in one room in Pattaya and they probably saved me from very negative health issues over the years whereas several people I knew during the years did have issues eventually. Even erectile dysfunction can be caused by air pollution! as well as a multitude of other problems.

 

At the worst times of year I could leave that room to go outside and the stink in the air would immediately hit me. A kind of acrid oily kind of smell. 

 

Within minutes I didn't notice the smell anymore and no one I mentioned it to could smell it at all as they had no air purifiers to get any respite from it. More than a few of them had coughs though.

 

I had to come back to UK in mid 2020 due to a sick family member and am probably not moving back to Thailand on a permanent basis again mainly due to the rubbish air.

 

At not far off 70 years of age I just don't need that air pollution anymore. Enough is enough. Even the UK weather is better, which, oddly, I don't seem to mind anymore.

 

I well remember one year in South Pattaya (2015ish) I counted just 5 days between November (may have been October) and late April I pulled the curtains back and the view towards Pratumnak Hill wasn't "cloudy". Then one day I pulled the curtains and it was gone, all gone, the air looked as clear as crystal and stayed that way until the next smog season.

 

All down to "temperature inversion" I believe. I have many photos of the pollution in Pattaya and have attached 3, looking from the Tuk Com area to Pratunak from 7th floor condo. 

 

Some years it is not too bad, some years bad and some years very bad. The photos are from that year I mentioned when that was the view for many months but you could just as easily get there for a holiday at what should be the worst time of year and wonder what on earth I am talking about. Varies so much.

 

One thing I will say is that if you must live in Thailand, GET AIR PURIFIERS.

 

In Pattaya for many years I had double the amount of “coverage” I.e if it said the machine covered 34 square metres I would have had 2 x 34 square metre coverage purifiers. Another benefit of that if you are a light sleeper is that you can run the things very low and still have the recommended coverage but with little fan noise.

 

If nothing else, look into getting some 3M Filtrete to put on the air con. I used to use that as well as air purifiers. The amount of gunk it traps on the material in a very short time is scary so change it when it looks like it needs it.

 

It’s cheap, vey easy to fit and available at the homeware stores.

 

I am thinking of a trip back to Thailand but that will be between late May and late September if i do to be pretty sure I have air to breathe as I don’t fancy carrying 2 air purifiers in my bag as I travel around!

 

As a question to to others that have been visiting SE Asia for very many years, I don't recall problems with air pollution in Pattaya etc years ago do you? I well remember telling my mother I was off back to Thailand way back in about 1995 (December for sure) and saying I was looking forward to months of solid sunshine with nothing in my head about "but awful air pollution". 

 

[MrJ2U]

12 hours ago, Henryford said:

I still find it hard to believe that the Thai people and the Thai Government are happy to let the crop farmers burn what they like even though it is killing thousands. In the West they would be having a fit. There must be some serious brown envelopes changing hands.

Up here in the Northeast Thais burn everything including plastic.   It's as common as taking a dump. 

 

Only so much the government can do when 70 +  million people have no qualms burning anything, anytime. 

 

Also the other countries surrounding Thailand are even burning more than Thailand.

 

Depressing time of year really. 

[4737 Carlin]

11 hours ago, vandeventer said:

So how do you fix it?

It can't, or won't, be fixed. Here in CM a lot of the expats I know are in denial about this being a s*** place to live. I, for one, won't be living here this time next year.

[JimmyJ]

This morning in Chiang Mai it was PM2.5 readings of up to 429 

= AQI of 458 = Hazardous.

 

"Hazardous" begins at PM2.5 of 251.

[DavisH]

10 hours ago, SoilSpoil said:

Arrest people who burn garbage, farm land, leaves, forest for mushrooms? Not rocket science, is it?

And buring in Laos and Cambodia? It's everywhere throughout the region. Much of the current burning in the north appears to come from Laos. Current pm2.5 map:

[DavisH]

8 minutes ago, JimmyJ said:

This morning in Chiang Mai it was PM2.5 readings of up to 429 

= AQI of 458 = Hazardous.

 

"Hazardous" begins at PM2.5 of 251.

In some areas it maxxed out at 500. I think that must be the limit of their pollution meters. That's horrendous and I expect a lot of people to be attending hospitals there with respiratory issues. PM 2.5 is very dangerous at these concentrations and can cause chronic illness. 

[mtraveler]

19 hours ago, dinsdale said:

The bigger picture....

https://firms.modaps.eosdis.nasa.gov/map/#d:2023-03-30..2023-03-31,2023-03-30;@102.8,20.3,6z

 

I assume that by posting this you are making the argument that the pollution Northern Thailand is experiencing is coming from Northern Laos and Northern Myanmar.  Yes, there is higher concentration in Laos and Myanmar.  But is there data showing that all that bad air is coming to Thailand?  What percentage actually gets to Chiang Mai?   And, doesn't pointing the finger at our neighbors try to make the Thai people/government innocent, when you can clearly see on the map that there's more than enough red within our borders?   How about we clean up our house first, and then we can put pressure on our neighbors to do the same?

 

This is my 5th smoke season here, and by far the worst. And I promise, for the health of my lungs and my body, my last.  This is awful, depressing, and scary.   

[SoilSpoil]

8 hours ago, DavisH said:

And buring in Laos and Cambodia? It's everywhere throughout the region. Much of the current burning in the north appears to come from Laos. Current pm2.5 map:

Who cares about Laos or Myanmar?nDo uou think Chiang Rai is the only province with smog problems? There are hundreds of fires in Thailand, so lets focus on that first. 

[dinsdale]

54 minutes ago, mtraveler said:

I assume that by posting this you are making the argument that the pollution Northern Thailand is experiencing is coming from Northern Laos and Northern Myanmar.  Yes, there is higher concentration in Laos and Myanmar.  But is there data showing that all that bad air is coming to Thailand?  What percentage actually gets to Chiang Mai?   And, doesn't pointing the finger at our neighbors try to make the Thai people/government innocent, when you can clearly see on the map that there's more than enough red within our borders?   How about we clean up our house first, and then we can put pressure on our neighbors to do the same?

 

This is my 5th smoke season here, and by far the worst. And I promise, for the health of my lungs and my body, my last.  This is awful, depressing, and scary.   

You assume wrong. The idea of posting the map was to show where the major concentration of fires are i.e. Myanmar, Laos AND Northern Thailand. This is a cross border situation. Fairly sure that if there were no fires at all in Thailand and Myanmar and Laos continue to burn the situation in the North of Thailand would still be very bad due to the predominant wind direction at this time of year. 

[mtraveler]

29 minutes ago, dinsdale said:

You assume wrong. The idea of posting the map was to show where the major concentration of fires are i.e. Myanmar, Laos AND Northern Thailand. This is a cross border situation. Fairly sure that if there were no fires at all in Thailand and Myanmar and Laos continue to burn the situation in the North of Thailand would still be very bad due to the predominant wind direction at this time of year. 

Sorry if it sounded like an attack on you.  It wasn't my intention.  I've just heard so many people point the finger at our neighboring countries, blaming them for our pollution problem, and I'm sensitive to that.  So again sorry.  

 

But that said, would it be really that bad if Thailand didn't burn?  What data do we have about that? 

 

Here's a chart of hotspots in Southeast Asia from January thru April (not sure what year it was).  When I look at the number of hotspots in Thailand per month, I think it tracks pretty closely with the PM2.5 levels that are seen in each of those months relative to the other months.  More fires, higher PM2.5.  So, again, I wonder what percent of our PM2.5 is a gift from other countries.  Any data you can share with me to prove how much smoke is actually coming from other countries would be much appreciated.  I'm happy to change my beliefs if there's some data to back it up.  For now, the data tells me: more fires in Thailand, more PM2.5.  (And again, this is not an attack; it's an attempt to seek out the truth.)

 

 

[DavisH]

2 hours ago, SoilSpoil said:

Who cares about Laos or Myanmar?nDo uou think Chiang Rai is the only province with smog problems? There are hundreds of fires in Thailand, so lets focus on that first. 

But that doesn't fix the overall problem. As soon as as the wind changes, the pollution changes. In theory, you could reduce pollution in Thailang by drastically reducing burning, but that's just a theory and I highly doubt anything will happen. Poor people who must work outside suffer the most. But it is not poor people making policy decisions on this (from their air filtered air conditioned rooms). 

 

 

[ThailandRyan]

Hills on the backside of Rajabhakti Park south of HH are on fire, the air here is poor today, but at least the bre6 is blowing the smoke towards Myanmar.

[jak2002003]

[BangkokReady]

20 hours ago, brommers said:

When you come to power holding a gun you listen to know one even when you pretend you are democratically elected.

To be fair, when you come to power by the bought vote, you also listen to no one.

[mania]

12 hours ago, 4737 Carlin said:

It can't, or won't, be fixed. Here in CM a lot of the expats I know are in denial about this being a s*** place to live. I, for one, won't be living here this time next year.

Sorry you have to move but IMHO your the smart one

I mean it will not change anytime soon & health is the greatest wealth we have.

 

For those that stay & perhaps develop a respiratory illness or worse will they be kicking themselves or just say oh well

I knew the risk when I rolled the dice & now I pay the price

 

Not an easy choice & not everyone can even make the choice. But good on you for being honest with yourself

 

 

 

[JimmyJ]

Hopefully Vietnam approves a 90 day Tourist Visa by next February...

[K2938]

On 3/31/2023 at 9:30 AM, h90 said:

And the tourist spots like Hua Hin, Phuket, etc don't have that problem

Not true.  Hua Hin also had significant bad air this year

[brewsterbudgen]

3 minutes ago, K2938 said:

Not true.  Hua Hin also had significant bad air this year

Absolutely.  Hua Hin, Pattaya and Rayong all had dreadful PM2.5 pollution only a few weeks ago.

[Stargeezr]

This is an Asia problem, not just Thailand. It is one of the many reasons I do not want to go and live

all year round in Thailand. 

[simon43]

9 hours ago, Stargeezr said:

This is an Asia problem, not just Thailand. It is one of the many reasons I do not want to go and live

all year round in Thailand. 

It is an ASEAN problem, but as most of us know (think of the civil war in Myanmar), ASEAN is weak as water and will not intervene in another member country's problems.  

[jts-khorat]

On 4/1/2023 at 3:30 AM, mtraveler said:

So, again, I wonder what percent of our PM2.5 is a gift from other countries.  Any data you can share with me to prove how much smoke is actually coming from other countries would be much appreciated.  I'm happy to change my beliefs if there's some data to back it up.  For now, the data tells me: more fires in Thailand, more PM2.5.  (And again, this is not an attack; it's an attempt to seek out the truth.)

I remember more than one burning season in Phuket, when -- depending on wind direction -- visibility was less than 50 meters for days. All the pollution coming from quite far-away Indonesia, in that case it was burn agriculture to create palm oil farms. One might only imagine how much forest was and is lost every year through those practices.

 

However, the issue is not that there are not enough laws against it in Thailand. It is, as so many times, an issue of education. As somebody else mentioned, in Isaan (and I guess many other places in Thailand) it is the most natural thing for people to burn any kind of rubbish just behind their own house or for farmers to clear their fields.

 

The latter I actually understand, especially for small farmers without much mechanization: I have stood in front of large sugarcane fields with nothing but a machete in hand to clear out the razor-sharp, dried lower leaves all by hand to give the stalks light and room to grow. Not a fun job at all -- especially when many gruelling hours of work can be simply replaced by a lighted match. And, of course, I did it as an experience, not as a daily lifestyle, so I would never begrudge any of these farmers to work with the solutions they have available.

 

Those who do should think why sugar cane is even planted here, when they put the next spoonful of white stuff in their morning coffee.