Are you thinking of buying a BYD EV?

[DUNROAMIN]

 

[Crossy]

Interesting (and worrying), particularly as BYD are using LiFePO4 packs, which are much less enthusiastic on the conflagration front than Li-ion.

 

 

[spongeworthy]

If this "story" was being told by anyone else, I'd think there's a remote chance it could be even partially true, but since claiming to be chased out of China this guy has made it his mission in life to create more anti-China content than the rest of the world combined. With that in mind, he provides no claims as to what these HUGE NUMBERS could be, not even a guesstimate. Just 10 or so mobile phone clips of EVs on fire as his "evidence" that this is a HUGE problem. No explanations as to why these EVs caught fire other than "poor QC", obviously because.... China.

Edited April 2, 2023 by spongeworthy

[proton]

18 minutes ago, spongeworthy said:

If this "story" was being told by anyone else, I'd think there's a remote chance it could be even partially true, but since claiming to be chased out of China this guy has made it his mission in life to create more anti-China content than the rest of the world combined. With that in mind, he provides no claims as to what these HUGE NUMBERS could be, not even a guesstimate. Just 10 or so mobile phone clips of EVs on fire as his "evidence" that this is a HUGE problem. No explanations as to why these EVs caught fire other than "poor QC", obviously because.... China.

Not true at all he never posts anti Chinese sentiments, but rightly anti CCP propaganda, lies and rubbish products.

[ExpatOilWorker]

Is there a insurance premium on BYD, Good Cat and other small EV cars in Thailand?

Insurance companies would have done their homework on the statistical probably of EV fires.

[proton]

Tim Newton ordered one, so if he stops his daily TNT offerings on YT we will know what happened

[macahoom]

10 hours ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

Insurance companies would have done their homework on the statistical probably of EV fires.

A study conducted by AutoInsuranceEZ using data from the NTSB (National Transportation Safety Board) showed that electric cars in the US caught fire at a rate of 25.1 per 100,000 sales compared to 1,530 for ICE vehicles and 3,475 for hybrids.

[sathornlover]

11 hours ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

Is there a insurance premium on BYD, Good Cat and other small EV cars in Thailand?

Insurance companies would have done their homework on the statistical probably of EV fires.

for Good Cat  24k VIRAYA 

[kennw]

43 minutes ago, macahoom said:

A study conducted by AutoInsuranceEZ using data from the NTSB (National Transportation Safety Board) showed that electric cars in the US caught fire at a rate of 25.1 per 100,000 sales compared to 1,530 for ICE vehicles and 3,475 for hybrids.

Another factor of concern for the insurance companies is when battery banks are damaged in an accident, even minor damage and they are scrapped. Tessler battery pack for example is part of the body frame and integral with body strength.   

[placeholder]

12 hours ago, proton said:

Not true at all he never posts anti Chinese sentiments, but rightly anti CCP propaganda, lies and rubbish products.

Utterly false. Why do you post such garbage? Here's a list of some of his videos. There's a lot more where those came from

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOA7qKMcjcE

[placeholder]

1 hour ago, macahoom said:

A study conducted by AutoInsuranceEZ using data from the NTSB (National Transportation Safety Board) showed that electric cars in the US caught fire at a rate of 25.1 per 100,000 sales compared to 1,530 for ICE vehicles and 3,475 for hybrids.

Not only that. But thermal safety systems for EVs have improved greatly over time. And continue to improve.

[proton]

38 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Utterly false. Why do you post such garbage? Here's a list of some of his videos. There's a lot more where those came from

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOA7qKMcjcE

He constantly says he is against the evil CCP not the Chinese people, if he was against them why would he have married one. His material is excellent, that's why the Chinese authorities try to get his work taken down, the lying CCP hate the truth.

[Henryford]

Who would want one of these mobile flame throwers. Madness to own one. Look at the recent Youtube post by Serpentza.

Edited April 3, 2023 by Henryford

[Bandersnatch]

I have been driving a Chinese electric car for 2 years now, would I buy another one  - definitely.

 

Would I consider a BYD - definitely. I was at the Bangkok motor show last week and they look great.

 

If BYDs are really so dangerous why are they getting 5 star euro NCAP safety ratings?

 

https://www.euroncap.com/en/results/byd/atto+3/46635

 

[ExpatOilWorker]

14 hours ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

Is there a insurance premium on BYD, Good Cat and other small EV cars in Thailand?

Insurance companies would have done their homework on the statistical probably of EV fires.

The BYD Atto 3 insurance is TWICE the price of a Toyota Cross insurance. 

Considering that the Cross statistically will do more km on the road, that is a remarkable difference. 

The OP might have a valid point and as more charging stations are opened all over Thailand we might see some flaming videos coming out.

Are charging stations in condo buildings really safe?

 

[ExpatOilWorker]

4 hours ago, macahoom said:

A study conducted by AutoInsuranceEZ using data from the NTSB (National Transportation Safety Board) showed that electric cars in the US caught fire at a rate of 25.1 per 100,000 sales compared to 1,530 for ICE vehicles and 3,475 for hybrids.

Overall, EVs are about 0.3 percent likely to ignite, versus a 1.05 percent likelihood for gas cars, according to the Bureau of Transportation Statistics and the National Transportation Safety Board compiled by Auto Insurance EZ last year.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2023/02/02/science/electric-vehicle-fires-are-rare-when-they-occur-they-can-be-nightmare/#:~:text=Overall%2C EVs are about 0.3,Auto Insurance EZ last year.

[edwinchester]

44 minutes ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

Overall, EVs are about 0.3 percent likely to ignite, versus a 1.05 percent likelihood for gas cars, according to the Bureau of Transportation Statistics and the National Transportation Safety Board compiled by Auto Insurance EZ last year.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2023/02/02/science/electric-vehicle-fires-are-rare-when-they-occur-they-can-be-nightmare/#:~:text=Overall%2C EVs are about 0.3,Auto Insurance EZ last year.

Petrol cars have a 1% chance of catching fire? As I can't access the article I assume that is over the lifetime of the car.

[liddelljohn]

Why would anyone buy ANY electric car , they are all hyped up expensive polluting rubbish and potential time bombs , short life span , cant be repaired , a small dent or accident is a write off if any damage to any part of battery pack,  short range, very polluting to mine lithium , they are at best a short term solution ,

[ozimoron]

3 hours ago, Henryford said:

Who would want one of these mobile flame throwers. Madness to own one. Look at the recent Youtube post by Serpentza.

Your unsupported claim of increased danger was dispelled by an earlier post.

 

4 minutes ago, liddelljohn said:

Why would anyone buy ANY electric car , they are all hyped up expensive polluting rubbish and potential time bombs , short life span , cant be repaired , a small dent or accident is a write off if any damage to any part of battery pack,  short range, very polluting to mine lithium , they are at best a short term solution ,

Because they will be mandatory soon.

[DJ54]

20 hours ago, spongeworthy said:

If this "story" was being told by anyone else, I'd think there's a remote chance it could be even partially true, but since claiming to be chased out of China this guy has made it his mission in life to create more anti-China

You could be right…. There was a disclosure at beginning video might be paid or received freebies to make video…. 

[ExpatOilWorker]

4 hours ago, edwinchester said:

Petrol cars have a 1% chance of catching fire? As I can't access the article I assume that is over the lifetime of the car.

Yes, that is over an about 20 years lifetime of the car.

There are 175,000 car fires in the US out of 280 million registered vehicles or about 0.0625%.

I think a big difference here is the way cars burn. Most petrol cars catch fire after an impact accident.

You can take good care of your EV, wax it every month, drive it like your grandmother would and as a thanks, it will spontaneous combust in the middle of the night.

[ross163103]

If their cars are anything like all the other crap made there, no. They seem to make things on quantity not quality. 

[DavisH]

42 minutes ago, ross163103 said:

If their cars are anything like all the other crap made there, no. They seem to make things on quantity not quality. 

Chinese EV's are likely to dominate for the forseeable future. I read an article today stating that there is likely to be a lithium shortage in Europe that will slow production of cars from there. China doesn't have this problem..yet.

[DUNROAMIN]

On 4/3/2023 at 10:26 AM, Bandersnatch said:

I have been driving a Chinese electric car for 2 years now, would I buy another one  - definitely.

 

Would I consider a BYD - definitely. I was at the Bangkok motor show last week and they look great.

 

If BYDs are really so dangerous why are they getting 5 star euro NCAP safety ratings?

 

https://www.euroncap.com/en/results/byd/atto+3/46635

 

Does NCAP ratings include the integrity of the EV's electrical and battery system?

[Bandersnatch]

1 hour ago, DUNROAMIN said:

Does NCAP ratings include the integrity of the EV's electrical and battery system?

Judge for yourself about the integrity of the battery system after these crashes. 
 

euro NCAP Crashes of EVs have never resulted in an EV fire.

 

 

[DavisH]

2 hours ago, Bandersnatch said:

Judge for yourself about the integrity of the battery system after these crashes. 
 

euro NCAP Crashes of EVs have never resulted in an EV fire.

 

 

I don't think they were testing the battery integrity in these tests. Was the electrical system actually running in these tests? Probably not. It would be intersting to know if these tests damaged the battery (I would expect the side imact tests would). Much less severe impacts in real life have damaged this battery beyond repair. A fire would be rare but would write the vehicle off. 

[macahoom]

4 minutes ago, DavisH said:

I don't think they were testing the battery integrity in these tests. Was the electrical system actually running in these tests? Probably not. It would be intersting to know if these tests damaged the battery (I would expect the side imact tests would). Much less severe impacts in real life have damaged this battery beyond repair. A fire would be rare but would write the vehicle off. 

When they test a petrol or diesel car, do you think the engines are running?

[richard_smith237]

On 4/3/2023 at 11:53 AM, ExpatOilWorker said:

Overall, EVs are about 0.3 percent likely to ignite, versus a 1.05 percent likelihood for gas cars, according to the Bureau of Transportation Statistics and the National Transportation Safety Board compiled by Auto Insurance EZ last year.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2023/02/02/science/electric-vehicle-fires-are-rare-when-they-occur-they-can-be-nightmare/#:~:text=Overall%2C EVs are about 0.3,Auto Insurance EZ last year.

Those stats seem very strange.

 

0.3% likely per what ??.....  0.3% likely to ignite per drive, per hour, yer year, per life time of the vehicle etc ???

 

If you [ExpatOilWorker] were told there was a 0.3% chance of a chopper crash, would you get on one? 

(fatal accident rate is 1 per 250,000 flying hours)... 

 

So.. EV’s 0.3%....  the stat seems to make no sense....  That said, I do agree with you that there is a negligible difference in risk, otherwise we’d already be seeing disproportionately more EV’s ignited on Thailands roads and parking garages and those in our home countries. 

 

I like the idea of EV’s... the price of Tesla’s have entered the ‘feasible domain’ (about 1.8 million Bhat for a Model 3)... But... the servicing or potential speed of repair concerns me, as does the cost of insurance (about 80,000 baht I think)....

 

... But what really concerns me about potential EV ownership is the potential ‘drop off a cliff’ of the price at about the 6-7 year mark as the battery warranty (usually 8 years I think) draws to an end (and the cost of battery replacement could ultimately be more expensive than the value of the car). 

Edited April 10, 2023 by richard_smith237

[ExpatOilWorker]

7 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

0.3% likely per what ??.....  0.3% likely to ignite per drive, per hour, yer year, per life time of the vehicle etc ???

It is over the lifetime of the vehicle, which might make the EV cars look a bit better, since gasoline cars stay 20 years on the road while EV cars only last 10-12 years.

A true fair comparison would be fires per billion km driven, but I have been unable to find such statistics. 

The insurance premium is a red flag and indicating something is wrong.

I don't think we have enough EV on the road yet in Thailand to see significant number of fires.

[placeholder]

10 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

Those stats seem very strange.

 

0.3% likely per what ??.....  0.3% likely to ignite per drive, per hour, yer year, per life time of the vehicle etc ???

 

If you [ExpatOilWorker] were told there was a 0.3% chance of a chopper crash, would you get on one? 

(fatal accident rate is 1 per 250,000 flying hours)... 

 

So.. EV’s 0.3%....  the stat seems to make no sense....  That said, I do agree with you that there is a negligible difference in risk, otherwise we’d already be seeing disproportionately more EV’s ignited on Thailands roads and parking garages and those in our home countries. 

 

I like the idea of EV’s... the price of Tesla’s have entered the ‘feasible domain’ (about 1.8 million Bhat for a Model 3)... But... the servicing or potential speed of repair concerns me, as does the cost of insurance (about 80,000 baht I think)....

 

... But what really concerns me about potential EV ownership is the potential ‘drop off a cliff’ of the price at about the 6-7 year mark as the battery warranty (usually 8 years I think) draws to an end (and the cost of battery replacement could ultimately be more expensive than the value of the car). 

 

2 hours ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

It is over the lifetime of the vehicle, which might make the EV cars look a bit better, since gasoline cars stay 20 years on the road while EV cars only last 10-12 years.

A true fair comparison would be fires per billion km driven, but I have been unable to find such statistics. 

The insurance premium is a red flag and indicating something is wrong.

I don't think we have enough EV on the road yet in Thailand to see significant number of fires.

Actually, batteries are lasting a lot longer than anticipated:

 

New Study: How Long Do Electric Car Batteries Last?

• Battery replacements are quite rare. In our community of 15,000 cars, only 1.5% have been replaced (outside of big recalls like Chevy Bolt).
• Degradation is not linear. We're including battery degradation curves that illustrate how well these batteries hold up over time. There's some drop in the beginning then it levels out for a long period.
• Most replacements occur under warranty

https://www.recurrentauto.com/research/how-long-do-ev-batteries-last

 

Good News: EV Batteries Last Longer Than Expected
Almost all of the EV batteries Nissan has ever made are still in cars.

https://cleantechnica.com/2022/09/16/good-news-ev-batteries-last-longer-than-expected/#:~:text=Almost all of the EV,made are still in cars.&text=It's true%3A despite early questions,about longevity – it's exceeding them!

 

And I haven't found anywhere that the average lifespan of an ICE vehicle is 20 years. Given that EVs are mechanically a lot simpler than an ICE vehicle, in principle they should last longer.

And the price of batteries should keep on declining as cheaper and better technologies keep coming on line.