Thaksin back in Thailand on May 16th - calls for a landslide election victory to get country out of a "black hole"

[heybruce]

17 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

What can possibly go wrong?

 

 

That's what happens when people's chosen, elected leaders are routinely deposed.

[heybruce]

16 hours ago, BangkokReady said:

My question included whether democracy could return if Thaksin came back into power.  Obviously their MO is industrial level vote-buying, gambling with public money to fund the vote-buying, suppression of free-speech, changing laws to allow corruption, and human rights violations.

 

If Thaksin comes into power, it is unlikely that people will be able to vote him out if they do not like what he does.

Of course you present no evidence to support any of your claims. 

 

All we know for sure is that there is no democracy under military rule.

[heybruce]

15 hours ago, BangkokReady said:

Thaksin took it to a whole new level.  You should look it up.  Especially the "rice pledge scheme".  It's like something from a Hollywood movie.

 

In most places, people would remember what Thaksin did in the past and would never vote for him again.  In Thailand they simply think "he gave me money, I like him".

 

People are free to vote for him, of course, it's just funny when someone says something about democracy, human rights, or law and order when discussing a Thaksin proxy being elected.

You think agricultural schemes that benefit farmers at taxpayer expense invalidate democracy?  By that standard, how many democracies are there?

[heybruce]

15 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

What can we expect from a Thai political party with a young and inexperienced PM candidate? And that party is clearly controlled by a criminal from outside of Thailand.

It's amazing that so many people think that will have a happy ending.

Thaksin wants revenge. Will that unite Thailand? NO! It will divide Thailand even more.

I hope he dies in the desert. The sooner the better. 

You hope Thailand stays under military rule forever.  You've made that clear.

[heybruce]

14 hours ago, kingstonkid said:

ASEAN  he just saw the military take over Myanmar again and Marcos was elected as president in the Philippines so he thinks he is entitled

Really?  You don't see any difference between the Myanmar generals rejecting an election, seizing power and waging war on the people of Myanmar, and the Philippines accepting election results?

[heybruce]

14 hours ago, h90 said:

they were legally ousted from power.....as the winner writes the book of history and in this case they wrote that into the constitution.
But beside that: Thailand was on the brink of a civil war with already injured and death people + massive economic damage.
Specially in the coup against his sister, Prayut tried till the last minute to negotiate a peaceful solution. Which would have been the PM to visit the king and telling that she is unable to govern the country and ask for an emergency government. They hoped that than the king would call in a temporary government from bureaucracy and retired respected people which pacify the country and call for new elections.
The government rejected that. The alternative would have been civil war with all the tourism goes down to nothing. There was already talks that the complete South declares itself an independend country, under the king but not under Bangkok rule.
There was also already a tax boycott many companies didn't pay taxes anymore and revenue department did not enforce anything anymore.

"they were legally ousted from power.....as the winner writes the book of history and in this case they wrote that into the constitution."

 

If you think that's acceptable there is no hope for you.

 

"But beside that: Thailand was on the brink of a civil war.."

 

No, it was not.  The protests were dying of apathy.

[heybruce]

14 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

The kind of country where people vote for a party which is controlled by a criminal from outside and his  inexperienced daughter as PM candidate. It's amazing that such a kind of country and such voters exist. 

Perfect candidates were not available.  The people considered the options and voted for the person who would use government resources to help the underprivileged majority instead of the privileged majority. 

[heybruce]

12 hours ago, h90 said:

Which isn't in power anymore since 2019

Really?  Are you that blind?

 

The military wrote the constitution, did not allow any discussion of alternatives or criticism of their constitution, presented it to the people with the choice of voting for the constitution or never voting again, modified the "approved" constitution to accommodate he-who-must-not-be-named, then had to fiddle with the rules to keep Prayuth in power after the election.

 

The result was not democracy, it was a continuation of the coup.

[heybruce]

5 hours ago, BangkokReady said:

Again, it doesn't look like it.

 

Perhaps the problem comes, with sugar cane and rubber, from the fact that someone is seeing "[crop] pledge" and assuming (or perhaps hoping?) that it is the same as the rice pledge scheme.

 

The two mentioned schemes appear to differ from the rice pledge scheme in a number of ways.

 

The sugar cane scheme appears to be about encouraging farmers to harvest their crop rather than burn it, while the rubber scheme seems to be about guaranteeing prices through subsidisation to prevent farmers from becoming destitute.  Both schemes appear to be funded directly from the government and keep the prices around similar levels to what they have been previously.

 

Both the sugar cane and rubber price pledge schemes were also being bought buy the manufacturers and being used.  That's quite important to remember.

 

With the rice scheme, rice was guaranteed to be purchased at a price much higher than the market price in order to buy votes.  The plan for the funding was that the rice would be stockpiled, the global price would go up, then the rice would be sold for much more than it would have been previously on the global market.

 

The rice scheme went wrong in a number of areas.  In many cases the rice was not properly stored and spoiled or went missing.  People were importing lower quality rice below the rice scheme pledge rate and then passing that off as Thai rice (this might have been done by some of the people running the thing, can't remember).  IIRC, there was a lot of corruption in general around the scheme by those organising it.  Many people didn't get paid as promised and when they complained red-shirt roughs went to threaten them.  The global shortage was picked up by other countries, so rather than increasing the price it allowed more producers into the market, eventually lowering the price of Thai rice (the damage to the reputation had a similar effect).

 

I'm sure you can see the difference here.

 

Like I said, the kind of thing you might see in a movie.  You should look into it.  Very interesting.

Good reasons to vote Yingluck out in an election.  That might have happened if people had been given the chance.

[khaowong1]

18 hours ago, keith101 said:

He is pushing for his party to win so he and his daughter can get pardons and can return home and take power again .

Exactly. 

[pomchop]

18 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

No, the elephant is Thaksin. He should stay in the desert or go to jail. 

so says another farang...i am sure the Thai people sit anxiously awaiting advice from farangs on THEIR chosen leaders.

[Confuscious]

6 hours ago, Mr Dome said:

I lived in Thailand during his rule and remembering how anti-foreigner he was and how he divided the country, that's a very weird statement from a farang. Does Thailand really need the vote buying & his own brand of corruption back that he was so good at? I doubt it. 

Lucky we have now anutin screaming that foreigners are filthy pigs who take only 1 shower a day

[JemJem]

He is a criminal. 

 

Sad to see many of the posters supporting this guy. In the name of war against drugs, he caused the deaths of hundreds, if not thousands, of people. Then, there was the raid against a mosque, where many people without weapons etc got killed. And, he had been heavily corrupt. And, he caused so much division in Thailand. And, he will continue to do so, if he comes back. 

 

Seriously, why do you support him? Because he got elected by popular vote?? So did Hitler. So has Lukashenko. So has Putin. So has Erdoğan. And many others. All dictators. 

 

Come on. 

 

 

 

[flexomike]

11 hours ago, herfiehandbag said:

Was the "rice pledge scheme" anything like the recently introduced scheme for the sugar cane farmers?

 

I just thought I would ask?

not at all close

[NoshowJones]

16 hours ago, NemoH said:

What kind of country has a criminal think that he can get pardoned from his crime if he wins an election ????????????

There is no bigger criminal than the present unelected caretaker PM, difference is the soldiers have all the strength behind them that would keep him out of jail.

[Sydebolle]

Some serious reshuffling of cards it up certain sleeves; get ready for a bumpy after-election period or "the outcry of the dinosaurs" ........... For once thy cannot stick that one on the alien's backs ???? 
The Titans are getting ready, let's see if verbally only ???? 

[daveAustin]

20 hours ago, Phoenix Rising said:

Hopefully you will reverse the old dinos' shameful disqualification of people like Tanathorn so that one day maybe, just maybe....... 

Well said. I would give my left one to see Thanathorn in charge. He would really elevate this place. Thaksin would create strife, though anyone but the bl**dy army. 

Edited April 4, 2023 by daveAustin

[NoshowJones]

10 hours ago, Confuscious said:

Thaksin is not a dumb man.

He is old and needs a lot of medical care.
If he dies in a cell, he will be a "Martyr" and Thailand will go down in a never ending war between the North and Bangkok (fuelled by Thaksin's family).

If he is treated well, he will cost the country lots of money and he will have control over his followers from the country within, which will throw Thailand back to 2006.

Any way you can chose, it as win-win for Thaksin.

Thailand was much better off with Thaksin abroad.

"which will throw Thailand back to 2006."  Thailand was a far better country then than it is now.

[D M G]

So much -Behind the Scenes-

[zzaa09]

31 minutes ago, daveAustin said:

Well said. I would give my left one to see Thanathorn in charge. He would really elevate this place. Thaksin would create strife, though anyone but the bl**dy army. 

Nice sentiments, but the Move Forward folks will have little or no chance of a majority rule or control.

Just the way things work here.

 

 

I'm waiting for the revolution.

[heybruce]

1 hour ago, JemJem said:

He is a criminal. 

 

Sad to see many of the posters supporting this guy. In the name of war against drugs, he caused the deaths of hundreds, if not thousands, of people. Then, there was the raid against a mosque, where many people without weapons etc got killed. And, he had been heavily corrupt. And, he caused so much division in Thailand. And, he will continue to do so, if he comes back. 

 

Seriously, why do you support him? Because he got elected by popular vote?? So did Hitler. So has Lukashenko. So has Putin. So has Erdoğan. And many others. All dictators. 

 

Come on.

Yes, technically he's a criminal.  No doubt he hopes to become a pardoned criminal, just like the traitors who stage coups and pardon themselves.  Do you have any opinions on them?

 

Hitler and his Nazi party never won a majority.  The Nazis formed a coalition with German conservatives in order to eliminate the communists, then solidified their power and eliminated both the conservatives and future elections. 

 

Lukashenko wasn't elected, he obviously faked the election results.  Erdogan was elected, and may be kicked out of office in the next election in a few months.  That's how democracy works, the people get to remove unpopular leaders, not the military.

 

I don't care if Thaksin returns to Thailand.  I don't care if another Shinawatra ever gets elected again.  I care that Thailand has been denied democracy for far too long, and that so many on this forum are ok with that.

[bamnutsak]

The election results will not be "revealed" by 16 May.

 

During the last "election" unofficial results were released + four days, with official results released + six weeks.

 

Thaksin should not be making flight arrangements just yet - yes, I know he'll fly private.

 

I can't see him returning, ever. Upright, or in an urn.

 

 

[sidneybear]

I'll bet he cancels his trip for "health reasons" if Prayuth get back in.

[sidneybear]

1 hour ago, daveAustin said:

Well said. I would give my left one to see Thanathorn in charge. He would really elevate this place. Thaksin would create strife, though anyone but the bl**dy army. 

By "elevate", you mean make it more like the ghastly western world. No thanks. 

[h90]

4 hours ago, heybruce said:

Really?  Are you that blind?

 

The military wrote the constitution, did not allow any discussion of alternatives or criticism of their constitution, presented it to the people with the choice of voting for the constitution or never voting again, modified the "approved" constitution to accommodate he-who-must-not-be-named, then had to fiddle with the rules to keep Prayuth in power after the election.

 

The result was not democracy, it was a continuation of the coup.

From what country are you speaking? There was lot of discussion and criticism about the constitution and Prayut got asked and it was on TV what happens if the constitution is rejected. He said than the old constitution will be reinstalled.
And the constitution was accepted with >60% so by no means it was close. And that even the opposition parties promoted to vote no.
I don't know where you are from....But did the American vote for their constitution or for any changes, did the Germans vote for theirs or the French?
These were made in the backroom by the people in power without asking anyone.

[h90]

4 hours ago, heybruce said:

"they were legally ousted from power.....as the winner writes the book of history and in this case they wrote that into the constitution."

 

If you think that's acceptable there is no hope for you.

 

"But beside that: Thailand was on the brink of a civil war.."

 

No, it was not.  The protests were dying of apathy.

So that USA is independent from Britain is not acceptable for you, right? Because that was illegal. Or France should be still a Kingdom, because the Revolution was illegal broke a lot of laws.
My point is: Things change in an imperfect way. We have to live with that.
No it was not dying, protesters were dying....we know one who lost his foot.
Companies didn't pay taxes, revenue department agreed. The South talked about splitting away from Thailand. Police and military were split inside. There were already cases in which some units blocked other units. It only need one case (or a staged case) where one policeman shoots an soldier or one army unit shoot at another and there is civil war. The dock worker labor union organized itself in a paramilitary way. Some red shirt groups did the same. Former communist fighter boosted on TV that they still have their weapons and are ready to pick them up.
Maybe some of it was just empty talk. But see what happened in Ukraine when some sniper shot at both police and demonstrators. You could have got that here as well.
And look how many coups were in Thailand....Many and always the military finally stepped back and allowed elections again.

[scorecard]

32 minutes ago, h90 said:

So that USA is independent from Britain is not acceptable for you, right? Because that was illegal. Or France should be still a Kingdom, because the Revolution was illegal broke a lot of laws.
My point is: Things change in an imperfect way. We have to live with that.
No it was not dying, protesters were dying....we know one who lost his foot.
Companies didn't pay taxes, revenue department agreed. The South talked about splitting away from Thailand. Police and military were split inside. There were already cases in which some units blocked other units. It only need one case (or a staged case) where one policeman shoots an soldier or one army unit shoot at another and there is civil war. The dock worker labor union organized itself in a paramilitary way. Some red shirt groups did the same. Former communist fighter boosted on TV that they still have their weapons and are ready to pick them up.
Maybe some of it was just empty talk. But see what happened in Ukraine when some sniper shot at both police and demonstrators. You could have got that here as well.
And look how many coups were in Thailand....Many and always the military finally stepped back and allowed elections again.

So is any of that (your summation is way over the top, I was in Bkk for all of the period you're referring to and lived less than 1 Km away from 2 barricades the red shirts has set up) and valid reason why the paymaster should return to Thailand outside of the law which requires that he be arrested and jailed on site? And remebering that he was convicted and sentenced to jail becaue he had clearly broken the laws.And for the record, no I don't want a military government. 

Edited April 4, 2023 by scorecard

[zyphodb]

10 hours ago, MarkyM3 said:

Saw a long TV interview in English with her when I was in Thailand recently. Definitely good looking (so was Yingluck for that matter lol)  but intellectually unimpressive. Thaksin et al will be back seat drivers for sure. 

 

Top Silpa-Archa was also interviewed and came across a lot better imo. Excellent command of English language due to overseas education in UK and US. 

The trouble is, they come back from the elitist schools in the US or Europe hating Farangs because they were bullied unmercifully at those schools...

[kimamey]

23 hours ago, jvs said:

If he does come back,i do not believe he will come back unless his party(family) wins the election.

Then he can be pardoned by his own daughter?

It could get really messy but we will see i guess.

 

Maybe I'm missing something but didn't they win an election before and he never got a pardon then, so what's different now.

 

The one thing Thaksin and Prayut have in common is they were, and presumably still are, more interested in power for their own benefit than for the good of the people.

[heybruce]

1 hour ago, h90 said:

From what country are you speaking? There was lot of discussion and criticism about the constitution and Prayut got asked and it was on TV what happens if the constitution is rejected. He said than the old constitution will be reinstalled.
And the constitution was accepted with >60% so by no means it was close. And that even the opposition parties promoted to vote no.
I don't know where you are from....But did the American vote for their constitution or for any changes, did the Germans vote for theirs or the French?
These were made in the backroom by the people in power without asking anyone.

Thailand.  I was in Thailand during all that.  The military made a big deal about inviting inputs but wrote the constitution that suited the military and you-know-who. 

 

Prayuth was asked on TV?  The same Prayuth that promised there would be no coup?

 

I don't recall any commitment to return to the previous constitution, also written at the military's direction, however I double-checked to make sure:

 

"Last August they tried again. This time they made sure their amended draft would pass, by imposing a strict ban on any campaigning, so the public understood very little about it, and by warning that the only alternative was extended military rule."  https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-39499485

 

Also, this "approved" constitution was amended in unknown ways almost immediately to accommodate---you know.  Unfortunately that can not be discussed here.

 

Yes, the US Constitution written by delegates appointed under the elected government operating under the Articles of Confederation, and then was approved by referendum in all 13 states.  The constitution has been in use for over 200 years, without any coups to change it.