SSA Form 7162 Time Again

[Pib]

4 minutes ago, watthong said:

 I figure it must have gotten on US soil by now?

Probably arrived the USPS Internatioal Service Center (ISC) days ago without an arriving tracking scan being done.  Probably still processing thru the ISC/Customs.

 

Another example of how registered mail originating outside the U.S. appears to go MIA before eventually popping back up on the radar tracking screen again. 

 

The problem is with the USPS tracking which can be spotty for registered mail that originated outside the U.S.

 

Poor tracking just causes angst (and costs a lot more).

[Pib]

 

From the USPS website regarding Registered Mail

 

https://faq.usps.com/s/article/Registered-Mail-The-Basics#:~:text=Registered Mail is kept highly,speed of delivery is important.

Quote

 

What is the estimated delivery time for Registered Mail and Registered Mail Restricted Delivery?

• There is no estimated delivery time for Registered Mail, regardless of class.
• Registered Mail is kept highly secured and is processed manually, which naturally slows the speed at which it travels.
• Registered Mail is not recommended if speed of delivery is important.

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Tracking Registered Mail

Registered Mail (domestic and international) service and Registered Mail Restricted Delivery service alone cannot be tracked through the mailstream. Updated scans are not provided as the piece is processed from facility to facility. However, those mail services provide delivery information when a scan shows either a delivery status or information on an attempted delivery, which can be retrieved in several ways.

 

 

[jerrymahoney]

25 minutes ago, Pib said:

Probably arrived the USPS Internatioal Service Center (ISC) days ago without an arriving tracking scan being done.  Probably still processing thru the ISC/Customs.

Probably you are right. However, since I went the warm&fuzzy route, I know that my 7162 form IS -- not probably IS -- at the ISC.

 

And for my one mailing each year back to the USofA, I can splurge on the extra cost

[watthong]

1 hour ago, Pib said:

Registered Mail (domestic and international) service and Registered Mail Restricted Delivery service alone cannot be tracked through the mailstream. Updated scans are not provided as the piece is processed from facility to facility. However, those mail services provide delivery information when a scan shows either a delivery status or information on an attempted delivery, which can be retrieved in several ways.

 

Thanks for the info, helpful to know...In other words, USPS can/will NOT tracked registered mail, but only give out delivery info... Therefore if no delivery (or attempt at) occurs because the mail gets lost somewhere on its journey then USPS will not have anything to track after, did I read that right? Then it's shameful as a public service. If that's the case it should crap "registered" altogether and hang on to the "delivery confirmation" option only. I've long been suspecting many weird postal phenomenons coming off Trump-era as the "de Joy" affect, especially post covid. Looks like he is still at his post and holding the US public hostage (his warning, "Get used to ME.")

[Pib]

USPS is basically saying their registered mail tracking can be spotty from origination to final delivery.

 

Sometimes  registered mail seems to get tracked really well along its trek...other times its spotty tracking. Seems to depend on which mail centers/offices the mail goes thru and to.

 

Over the years of reading the annual 7162 posts on AseanNow those who have used registered mail and posted their USPS tracking results have shown results all over the map from quick & detailed delivery to Wilkes Barre while others have shown MIA, spotty, Lost in Space type tracking although the 7162 most likely reached Wilkes Barre SSA....it's just the tracking may not show stops along the way and final delivery.

 

No shortage of USPS customer complaints regarding some mail taking a lot longer to reach some locations, poor tracking, etc. 

 

Now I'm a firm believer USPS has an outstanding final delivery statistic based on the Billions of pieces of mail they handle although mail quick arrival/tracking along the way may leave a lot to be desired.

 

And after I did my own controlled regular and registered airmail tests from Bangkok to Houston and LA in mid 2019 (pre-pandemic) I came to the conclusion using regular airmail vs registered airmail resulted in a much faster delivery time and was also a lot cheaper....but no warm-fuzzy tracking which can often give a cold-prickly/angst feeling instead.

 

 

[jerrymahoney]

The 7162 form says:

 

IMPORTANT: Failure to complete and return this form within 60 days will result in suspension of benefits

 

That's it. As long as you mail it promptly after receiving, no big deal about a day or 2 faster or slower.

[Pib]

As posted earlier, my Bangkok to Houston testing in mid 2019 indicated plain old airmail took 11 to 14 days to arrive.  Registered airmail took 21 to 33 days to arrive....roughly twice as long as plain old air mail.   2 of the 3 registered airmails did not show final delivery.  Getting thru the USPS International Service Center (ISC)/Customs at New York City was where the longest delay occurred....see below post for details of the testing.

 

 

[watthong]

18 hours ago, Pib said:

my Bangkok to Houston testing in mid 2019 indicated plain old airmail took 11 to 14 days to arrive.  Registered airmail took 21 to 33 days to arrive....roughly twice as long as plain old air mail.   2 of the 3 registered airmails did not show final delivery.  Getting thru the USPS International Service Center (ISC)/Customs at New York City was where the longest delay occurred....

For "extra warm fuzzy feeling," in the future I would send the original letter via regular mail, and at the same time a copy via registered mail (with some explanation in the note box to the effect of "if original one has arrived, please discard this one.") I think that should work especially well if one gets the July reminder.

 

Re the above quoted "mailing test", the "registered" option seems to take an extra 10 to 20 days, all this taking place on US soil AND pre-covid. This is inacceptable for a 1st world country. Let alone the fact that the result is far from satisfactory ("2 of the 3 registered airmails did not show final delivery.") I am not trying to wag a political finger here, but fact remains fact. USPS has been done a lot of damages during the previous presidential era, and it seems that it has not been "rehabilitated" by now 3 years later into the new administration. I find that "shameful."

 

On the other hand, my respect for USPS personnel remains intact. I never forget one instant eons ago when late one night, almost 11 pm, I saw a USPS truck still lurking around the mail box rows of my neighborhood. I got near and found a rotund black (sorry for sounding totally un-pc) postwoman still unloading stuff from her vehicle. Upon my inquiry she said "I can't go home till the truck is empty." My hat off to her. And my heart goes out to them now knowing they have been toiling and chafing under the reign of the big bad wolf for the last several years, and are continuing to do so.

[jeffandgop]

Took the SSA 17 weeks to approve my wife’s entitlement to her spousal retirement. They did not even initiate their activities until 10 weeks after submitting the application, missed their own telephone mandated appointment, did not respond to emails, etc. 

Her first benefit payment was made/received May 3. But SSA didn’t hesitate to send the 7162 form to demand she verify her still breathing status only 1 month after! Received her Form 7162 dtd June 2 today……

[Pib]

1 minute ago, jeffandgop said:

Took the SSA 17 weeks to approve my wife’s entitlement to her spousal retirement. They did not even initiate their activities until 10 weeks after submitting the application, missed their own telephone mandated appointment, did not respond to emails, etc. 

Her first benefit payment was made/received May 3. But SSA didn’t hesitate to send the 7162 form to demand she verify her still breathing status only 1 month after!  Received her Form 7162 dtd June 2 today……

And her 7162 has "your" SSN on it with a BIC of "B"?

 

Additionally, the last two digits of SSN on the 7162 ends between 50 to 99?   

 

 

[jeffandgop]

1 hour ago, Pib said:

And her 7162 has "your" SSN on it with a BIC of "B"?

 

Additionally, the last two digits of SSN on the 7162 ends between 50 to 99?   

 

 

Hi Pib.
No. It has her SSN & a BIC of”A” and ends in 27

[Pib]

6 minutes ago, jeffandgop said:

Hi Pib.
No. It has her SSN & a BIC of”A” and ends in 27

Then that means her benefit was based totally/partially on her earning record instead of yours...not really a pure spousal pension like you mentioned in your post.

 

If she did "not" work at least 10 years/earn 40 SS credits then she could have got a spousal pension based "totally" on your earning record which results in the SSA using your SSN and assigning a "B" BIC code for her pension claim.

 

But if she got some type of "partial" spousal "top-up" amount to add onto the basic pension amount she earns from her earnings record then "her" SSN is used along with an "A" BIC code.   And this also means with a BIC of "A" she will get a 7162 every year.

 

 

[jeffandgop]

9 hours ago, Pib said:

Then that means her benefit was based totally/partially on her earning record instead of yours...not really a pure spousal pension like you mentioned in your post.

 

If she did "not" work at least 10 years/earn 40 SS credits then she could have got a spousal pension based "totally" on your earning record which results in the SSA using your SSN and assigning a "B" BIC code for her pension claim.

 

But if she got some type of "partial" spousal "top-up" amount to add onto the basic pension amount she earns from her earnings record then "her" SSN is used along with an "A" BIC code.   And this also means with a BIC of "A" she will get a 7162 every year.

 

 

All of that we know. Took the SSA 12 weeks to approve her benefit then another 4 weeks to approve her spousal benefit. Should be processed together. But my point was sending her to complete a 7162 only a month after her benefits began is ridiculous. 

[Pib]

6 hours ago, jeffandgop said:

 But my point was sending her to complete a 7162 only a month after her benefits began is ridiculous. 

Yea, but I expect the SSA gods might argue that would require then to  officially establish such a policy and/or a change to their software programming which might cost money....I'm sure they would have some type of good (or not so good) rationale.

 

Heck, as talked earlier in this thread the SSA POMS (regulation) on 7162's only requires a 7162 from any pensioner "in Thailand" every other year vs every year "if" their pension claim number (i.e., SSN the claim is based on which might not be the person's own but someone else's like a spouse) includes a BIC suffix of "B, D, F, J, or W."   These BIC's are related to a wife/husband, widow/widower, a mother/father, etc....see below SSA POMS for a description of possible BIC's (many of them) which appear to all be related to someone receiving SSA benefits based on another person's SSN/earning record.

https://secure.ssa.gov/poms.nsf/lnx/0201050007

 

Now say you are receiving a spousal pension (like my wife) based on another person's SSN/earning's record (like mine).  We are both "well over" 62 and the wife is only about 13 months younger than me....or said another way we are in our golden years.  However, she has a BIC of "B" because her pension is a spousal pension based on my SSN/earnings records vs hers.......she will only receive a 7162 every other year here in Thailand but I will receive a 7162 every year here in Thailand since I have a BIC of "A" since my pension is based on my SSN/earnings record.   Age is not the driver but the assigned BIC. 

 

But for whatever reason(s) the SSA does not feel the need to confirm an old person on a spousal type pension that results in assignment of a BIC "B, D, F, J, or W" needs to be checked on each year if living in Thailand to see if they are still kicking.....but the person on a regular pension that results in a BIC of "A" does need to be checked on.  Maybe the SSA have solid reasoning behind that approach.....but I expect whatever reasoning the SSA has they also know the reasoning has a good amount of holes in it but plugging all the holes would probably just make the 7162 program a bigger headache for pensioners and SSA alike so the current approach is a compromise approach....far from perfect.

 

 

[Pib]

 

On 6/20/2023 at 1:32 PM, jeffandgop said:

Received mine today in Chiang Mai

19 hours ago, jeffandgop said:

Took the SSA 17 weeks to approve my wife’s entitlement to her spousal retirement. They did not even initiate their activities until 10 weeks after submitting the application, missed their own telephone mandated appointment, did not respond to emails, etc. 

Her first benefit payment was made/received May 3. But SSA didn’t hesitate to send the 7162 form to demand she verify her still breathing status only 1 month after! Received her Form 7162 dtd June 2 today……

Assuming both you and the wife live at the same address and both 7162's generated/actually mailed on 2 June I wonder why her 7162 arrived approx 2 weeks later than yours.....hers arriving 4 Jul and yours 20 Jun.    Maybe slower mail, maybe actually mailed weeks later than the 2 June date on the 7162,  maybe who knows. 

 

Definitely shows 7162's are still just now arriving for some approx one month after the 2 Jun date on the 7162's....30 days eaten away from the return "within 60 days requirement" which would mean arriving Wilkes Barre SSA by 2 Aug.   However, since the SSA POMS says the follow-up/2nd 7162 mailing occurs in Sep, then a person might really have up to around 90 days from the 2 Jun 1st mailing.  Or maybe said another way if it took the person a month to receive the 7162 then they really do have around 60 (sixty) days to get it back to Wilkes Barre before ending up on the 2nd mailing list occurring in Sep.  All a person can do is mail it back as soon as they get it.

 

[Alotoftravel]

I just received my 7162 , july 23rd.

i promptly sent it out on the same day via registered mail. It had june  2nd date printed above, insm concerned of the due date , 60 days .

any advise what can i do to avoid discontinuation of my ssa ? Thanks

 

[Pib]

3 hours ago, Alotoftravel said:

I just received my 7162 , july 23rd.

i promptly sent it out on the same day via registered mail. It had june  2nd date printed above, insm concerned of the due date , 60 days .

any advise what can i do to avoid discontinuation of my ssa ? Thanks

 

You should be OK.   The copy you mailed back should arrive Wilkes Barre within 2-6 weeks.  Registered airmail usually takes longer (typically twice as long) than regular airmail.   

 

Now even if it don't happen to arrive before the SSA 2nd 7162 mailing in Sep/Oct (for those folks Wilkes Barre didn't get a response to the 1st mailing) you can just mail back the 7162 provided in the  2nd notice....be sure to mail back any 2nd notice even if your tracking showed your 1st 7162 response arrived Wilkes Barre.    Recommend you mail it back regular airmail as it should arrive sooner and definitely be a lot cheaper than using registered airmail.   

 

And if Wilkes Barre does not get a response to the 1st or 2nd mailing in Jan they will mail out a notice of benefits suspension applying to the 3 Feb benefit payment..   If that occurs you should contact the Manila FBU SSA office who are probably going to instruct you to mail them and/or Wilkes Barre a manually completed 7162 which can be downloaded from the Manila FBU SSA webpage....see their web page below for more info.

 

 

https://ph.usembassy.gov/services/social-security/faq/

 

 

[Alotoftravel]

Hi Pib,

what a relief! 

 

I just started receiving SS this year april and never know about this 7162 till i read this forum. You also helped me in my ss benefit application ???? 
 

So i have another chance , 2nd mailing in sep if my 1st did not arrive on time to them. ( hope i get the 2nd earlier than this 1st mailing)
 

I appreciate your help and now i have a plan of execution. Thanks  alot

[Pib]

On 6/25/2023 at 5:41 AM, jerrymahoney said:

My 2023 7162 was mailed registered air mail at Thai Post yesterday.

 

The tracking number is not just in the Thai system -- it is already in the USPS system:

 

Latest Update

Your item was accepted at 9:57 am on June 24, 2023 in THAILAND.

International Transit

Acceptance

THAILAND

June 24, 2023, 9:57 am

What's the latest USPS tracking on your 7162 mailed to Wilkes Barre via registered airmail on 24 June?   Has it arrived Wilkes Barre SSA yet? 

[Pib]

On 7/3/2023 at 11:24 AM, watthong said:

I got my 7162 on 6/19, mailed back registered 6/22. Last update on thai post (pic 1) is "hand over to carrier" from Swampy on 6/24 so I assume that it has gotten on a flight. Over on USPS (pic 2) it still shows one of the updates on 6/24 at Swampy. I figure it must have gotten on US soil by now?

 

What's the latest USPS tracking on your 7162 mailed to Wilkes Barre via registered airmail on 22 June?   Has it arrived Wilkes Barre SSA yet? 

[watthong]

1 hour ago, Pib said:

 

What's the latest USPS tracking on your 7162 mailed to Wilkes Barre via registered airmail on 22 June?   Has it arrived Wilkes Barre SSA yet? 

I'm glad you asked. (I kinda left it in the back of my mind and not been bothered...) So here's the latest: 1st pic from thaipost, 2nd from USPS.

[jerrymahoney]

10 hours ago, Pib said:

 

What's the latest USPS tracking on your 7162 mailed to Wilkes Barre via registered airmail on 22 June?   Has it arrived Wilkes Barre SSA yet? 

Moving Through Network

In Transit to Next Facility

July 21, 2023

 
Arrived at USPS Regional Destination Facility

SCRANTON PA DISTRIBUTION CENTER 

July 17, 2023, 1:51 am

Arrived at USPS Regional Destination Facility

LEHIGH VALLEY PA DISTRIBUTION CENTER 

July 15, 2023, 12:06 pm

[jerrymahoney]

BTW same as final notice last year:

[Pib]

@watthong  @jerrymahoney

 

Thanks.  I expect your 7162s have arrived Wilkes Barre although the tracking seems to have stopped at Scranton which is approx 20 miles/30 minute drive from Wilkes Barre.   

 

When the tracking doesn't show delivery it kinda defeats a key purpose of registered mail to ensure/show delivery.  Hopefully tracking final delivery will appear in the near future but based on my personal tests discussed a little bit more below sometimes tracking never shows final delivery although final delivery does indeed occur. 

 

I advocate the use of regular airmail for 7162s based my personal/multiple tests of regular and registered airmail from Bangkok to Houston in 2019 where the regular airmail arrived twice as fast and was a lot cheaper.  In these tests the regular airmail arrived Houston in 11-14 days and the registered airmail arrived in 21-33 days.  These registered airmails also went thru the New York USPS International Service Center just like the 7162s going to Wilkes Barre.

 

By "multiple" tests I mean I mailed two envelopes (one regular airmail and one registered airmail) at the same time from the same same Bangkok post office to the same Houston address.   Did this 3 times over several months.  This Houston address was my mail forwarding address where I get a scanned image via email of each delivery.  And 2 of the 3 registered airmails never showed USPS tracking final delivery....just showed out for delivery.....but they were delivered as I received an email scanned image upon delivery from my mail forwarding address.

 

 

[jerrymahoney]

The form is mailed in a bar-coded envelope with the 7162 PO Box number and the 7162 ZIP Code suffix so I don't think anybody doesn't know just what is going down -- and the USPS delivers the form to SSA Wilkes Barre without a signature.

 

... just as I posted from 2022 last year's mailing and no 2nd notice.

[watthong]

34 minutes ago, Pib said:

I expect your 7162s have arrived Wilkes Barre although the tracking seems to have stopped at Scranton which is approx 20 miles/30 minute drive from Wilkes Barre. 

Thanks Pib for the recommendation. Personally I don't bother with these 7162 hoops anymore. By which I mean I don't pull my hair out over it. With the bad guy still at the helms and hell bent on throttling the working of USPS, the SSA insisting on these return time windows seemingly not concerning with how unreliable international delivery has become, etc, it has become a game of trying to hit a moving target. 

 

I have called SSA and talked to them when I had to switch bank account for check deposit earlier this year and that seems the best way to deal with the situation if/when my checks are stopped. For the rest of the time, any time I got a letter from SSA I would do this: send back one by regular mail, then another one by registered, with a note saying this is a backup so if the original has arrived then please discard this backup one. The whole "operation" costs less than 200 baht. And I will do that on auto-pilot either with 1st letter or 2nd letter regardless. 

[watthong]

26 minutes ago, jerrymahoney said:

and the USPS delivers the form to SSA Wilkes Barre without a signature.

Last year my tracking showed delivery with a person's name. Unfortunately I can't find the screenshot now but I remember taken aback when seeing that.

[Pib]

1 hour ago, watthong said:

The whole "operation" costs less than 200 baht. 

Mailing one envelope via regular airmail plus another one via registered mail to the U.S. "use to cost around Bt200" up until a couple years ago.  Then the Thai Postal System raised it rates.   

 

As of a few years ago, the rate for an international regular airmail and registered airmail for a 25 gram envelope (approx weight of a 7162 envelope) is Bt59 and Bt355, respectively, for a total of Bt414.

 

[jerrymahoney]

3 hours ago, Pib said:

When the tracking doesn't show delivery it kinda defeats a key purpose of registered mail to ensure/show delivery.

Maybe a different purpose:

 

I know that my registered letter in a bar-coded envelope and a Wilkes-Barre 7162 PO Box and a Wilkes-Barre 7162 ZIP code suffix made it at least to and departed Scranton. And while there is no proof of delivery to SSA, the tracking is exactly the same as my no-problem 2022 mailing.

 

I agree there is a 99+% chance that an international airmail unregistered 7162 mailing made it to Wilkes-Barre just fine. But the only way you will know that is if you do not get a 2nd request mailing in whatever elapsed time.

[watthong]

4 hours ago, Pib said:

Mailing one envelope via regular airmail plus another one via registered mail to the U.S. "use to cost around Bt200" up until a couple years ago.  Then the Thai Postal System raised it rates.

You're correct. I just checked my snapshot and it was 355 baht for registered mail. Somehow my mind still held onto the good old days of 95 baht or something in that neighborhood. I stand corrected "and myself reprove."