Trump says he's been indicted in classified docs probe

[Chomper Higgot]

40 minutes ago, candide said:

So he could bragg about having the power to press the button while he was president! 

What he could never brag about is declassifying that particular document, it was always outwith his power to do so.

 

 

[Bkk Brian]

Far too much attention being paid to this audio tape and the existence of the document, its a bonus if that is proven, however the indictments are based on evidence they already have 31 documents and criminal retention of national defense information (NDI)

 

"This is not necessarily classified materials — confidential, secret or top-secret — as they can be declassified. But NDI is always and everywhere criminal to possess outside of a secure federal facility, and is always and everywhere secret because it shows military strengths and weaknesses and the methods and sources of reaching those conclusions."

https://www.ocregister.com/2023/06/15/judge-andrew-napolitano-the-case-against-donald-trump/

[LosLobo]

Trump may be a proven criminal earlier than we thought........

 

'U.S. District Judge Aileen Cannon has set an initial trial date of Aug. 14 in Florida on former President Donald Trump's federal charges of willful retention of classified government records and obstruction of justice, according to a court order on Tuesday'.

 

U.S. judge sets Aug. 14 trial date for Trump in Florida documents case | Reuters

[stevenl]

6 minutes ago, LosLobo said:

Trump may be a proven criminal earlier than we thought........

 

'U.S. District Judge Aileen Cannon has set an initial trial date of Aug. 14 in Florida on former President Donald Trump's federal charges of willful retention of classified government records and obstruction of justice, according to a court order on Tuesday'.

 

U.S. judge sets Aug. 14 trial date for Trump in Florida documents case | Reuters

Excellent. Now waiting for Trump's attempts to delay 

[Credo]

Why do I have a feeling that they are processing an application to make Mar-a-Lago a private prison?  

[jerrymahoney]

7 hours ago, stevenl said:

Excellent. Now waiting for Trump's attempts to delay 

From the same Reuters article linked above:

 

Cannon's order setting a tentative Aug. 14 trial is considered standard.

 

However, the case will need to proceed under a strict and meticulous set of rules set forth in a law known as the Classified Information Procedures Act (CIPA): a law that aims to protect classified evidence and manage how such records can be disclosed.

[jerrymahoney]

10 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The lack of news on the progress of investigations under Jack Smith has a habit of  being very poor indicator of what Jack Smith is investigating.

Fine. But a  Discovery Order was issued at the June 13, 2023 arraignment:

 

THE COURT : All right . And the other typical step that defense lawyers in our district take is to ask for the issuance of the standing discovery order .
THE COURT :Are you making that request as well?
MR BLANCHE: Yes , Your Honor.
THE COURT : All right . The standing discovery order either has been uploaded or will soon be uploaded to the CM-ECF system.

 

Standing Order typical clause (from another case):

 

 The Government shall permit the defendant(s) to inspect and copy the following items or copies thereof, or supply copies thereof, which are within the possession, custody or control of the Government, the existence of which is known or by the exercise of due
diligence may become known to the Government: (my italics)

Edited June 20, 2023 by jerrymahoney

[jerrymahoney]

From the relentless Maggie Haberman at the NY Times:

 

Judge in Trump Documents Case Sets Tentative Trial Date as Soon as August

The judge, Aileen M. Cannon, set an aggressive schedule for moving the case forward, though the proceedings are likely to be delayed by pretrial clashes.

 

The timeline set by the judge, Aileen M. Cannon, is likely to be delayed by extensive pretrial litigation — including over how to handle classified material — and its brisk pace seems in keeping with a schedule set under the Speedy Trial Act.

 

Brandon L. Van Grack, a former federal prosecutor who has worked on complex criminal matters involving national security, said the trial date was “unlikely to hold” considering that the process of turning over classified evidence to the defense in discovery had not yet begun. Still, he said, Judge Cannon appeared to be showing that she intended to do what she could to push the case to trial quickly.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/20/us/politics/trump-classified-documents-trial-date.html

 

https://archive.is/hGzIv

[LosLobo]

4 hours ago, jerrymahoney said:

From the relentless Maggie Haberman at the NY Times:

 

Judge in Trump Documents Case Sets Tentative Trial Date as Soon as August

The judge, Aileen M. Cannon, set an aggressive schedule for moving the case forward, though the proceedings are likely to be delayed by pretrial clashes.

 

The timeline set by the judge, Aileen M. Cannon, is likely to be delayed by extensive pretrial litigation — including over how to handle classified material — and its brisk pace seems in keeping with a schedule set under the Speedy Trial Act.

 

Brandon L. Van Grack, a former federal prosecutor who has worked on complex criminal matters involving national security, said the trial date was “unlikely to hold” considering that the process of turning over classified evidence to the defense in discovery had not yet begun. Still, he said, Judge Cannon appeared to be showing that she intended to do what she could to push the case to trial quickly.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/20/us/politics/trump-classified-documents-trial-date.html

 

https://archive.is/hGzIv

Some might say 'wet blanket' or 'party pooper' and that you are trying to dampen the initial elation of the proponents of equal justice may feel from the speedy start to Trump's possible demise.

 

There has always been the fear that Trump may run out the clock and the GOP (including Trump) regaining the WH and then he would escape his Nemesis.

 

I consider that we fortunate to have you here to point out that 'every rose has a thorn' and be the 'devils advocate' both literally and metaphorically.

 

Thank you for your participation.

 

Edited June 21, 2023 by LosLobo

[jerrymahoney]

50 minutes ago, LosLobo said:

Thank you for your participation.

You're welcome. I just look at the case. And the case stays the same no matter what gets posted on this website.

 

I actually read the case docket. I have yet to see hardly anyone on here refer directly to the case docket for any of Trump's criminal or civil adventures.

 

I voted against Trump twice although in Florida that really didn't make much difference. I would vote against him again in 2024 if he ever got the nomination but because of Patriot Act stuff I will not be able to register to vote in Florida again.

Edited June 21, 2023 by jerrymahoney

[placeholder]

18 hours ago, proton said:

why should he not be able to defend himself against the witch hunt against him? 

I agree that Trump has every right to continue incriminating himself via his exercise of free speech. But that you identify said exercise as defending himself seems a little bizarre.

Edited June 21, 2023 by placeholder

[LosLobo]

6 minutes ago, jerrymahoney said:

Your welcome. I just look at the case. And the case stays the same no matter what gets posted on this website.

 

I actually read the case docket. I have yet to see anyone on here refer directly to the case docket for any of Trump's criminal or civil adventures.

I did actually look at the case docket for Carroll vs Trump case but they are not always that easy to find.

 

As with most things even medical/scientific studies it is always easier to read reliable third party summaries than the study with the actual data.

 

 

[jerrymahoney]

55 minutes ago, LosLobo said:

I did actually look at the case docket for Carroll vs Trump case but they are not always that easy to find.

 

As with most things even medical/scientific studies it is always easier to read reliable third party summaries than the study with the actual data.

 

 

I started doing legal research in the US Oil & Gas industry -- taxes and regulatory reporting e.g. -- in the early 1980's pre- internet when you actually had to go to a law library and use printed or floppy disk indexes and then go to the stacks or microfilm. And within the client base and their legal/accounting firms, of the computer systems firm I worked for, I did become known as a wonk knew his way through the stacks and came up with the actual data.

[Chomper Higgot]

8 hours ago, jerrymahoney said:

Fine. But a  Discovery Order was issued at the June 13, 2023 arraignment:

 

THE COURT : All right . And the other typical step that defense lawyers in our district take is to ask for the issuance of the standing discovery order .
THE COURT :Are you making that request as well?
MR BLANCHE: Yes , Your Honor.
THE COURT : All right . The standing discovery order either has been uploaded or will soon be uploaded to the CM-ECF system.

 

Standing Order typical clause (from another case):

 

 The Government shall permit the defendant(s) to inspect and copy the following items or copies thereof, or supply copies thereof, which are within the possession, custody or control of the Government, the existence of which is known or by the exercise of due
diligence may become known to the Government: (my italics)

Which doesn’t address the Prosecutors seeking and obtaining the court protective order for :

 

"information pertaining to ongoing investigations, the disclosure of which could compromise those investigations and identify uncharged individuals."

 

[underline added by me].
 

In a parallel move the DOJ has slapped down the request by  Republicans in Congress to lift the lid on the DOJ investigation.

 

https://thehill.com/regulation/court-battles/4056871-judge-orders-trump-not-to-disclose-evidence-in-documents-case/amp/

[LosLobo]

34 minutes ago, jerrymahoney said:

I started doing legal research in the US Oil & Gas industry -- taxes and regulatory reporting e.g. -- in the early 1980's pre- internet when you actually had to go to a law library and use printed or floppy disk indexes and then go to the stacks or microfilm. And within the client base and their legal/accounting firms, of the computer systems firm I worked for, I did become known as a wonk knew his way through the stacks and came up with the actual data.

I am basically lazy and I now find analysing data somewhat tedious and prefer others to do work for me.

 

I am not a legal guru though I have a good understand of common law having studied commercial law, I am more of a numbers 'wonk'.

 

In a past life, I was a Managing Project Data Analyst in the Aircraft Industry and cut my teeth post IT studies producing CEO reports and organisation's periodical technical/engineering publication. from raw data,

[jerrymahoney]

18 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Which doesn’t address the Prosecutors seeking and obtaining the court protective order for :

 

"information pertaining to ongoing investigations, the disclosure of which could compromise those investigations and identify uncharged individuals."

 

[underline added by me].
 

In a parallel move the DOJ has slapped down the request by  Republicans in Congress to lift the lid on the DOJ investigation.

 

https://thehill.com/regulation/court-battles/4056871-judge-orders-trump-not-to-disclose-evidence-in-documents-case/amp/

Yes and unopposed by defense council.

 

ORDER granting Unopposed Motion for Protective Order as to Donald J. Trump (1), Waltine Nauta (2). Signed by Magistrate Judge Bruce E. Reinhart Jun 19, 2023

Edited June 21, 2023 by jerrymahoney

[ozimoron]

Just now, jerrymahoney said:

Yes and unopposed by defense council.

 

ORDER granting Unopposed Motion for Protective Order as to Donald J. Trump (1), Waltine Nauta (2). Signed by Magistrate Judge Bruce E. Reinhart 

No legal counsel opposes a motion which they know will be granted. I'm sure trump would have preferred to be free to make that info public, traitor that he is.

[jerrymahoney]

3 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

No legal counsel opposes a motion which they know will be granted. I'm sure trump would have preferred to be free to make that info public, traitor that he is.

  Well if you're sure,  that settles that.

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, jerrymahoney said:

  Well if you're sure,  that settles that.

Why was it considered necessary to make the order?

[Chomper Higgot]

12 minutes ago, jerrymahoney said:

Yes and unopposed by defense council.

 

ORDER granting Unopposed Motion for Protective Order as to Donald J. Trump (1), Waltine Nauta (2). Signed by Magistrate Judge Bruce E. Reinhart Jun 19, 2023

Of course it’s unopposed, it’s entirely reasonable on the basis of Trump’s past behavior to place restrictions on what Trump may not say about the case and control his access to evidence and witness names.

 

The point remains, the DOJ application provides evidence of continuing investigations and as yet un-indicted individuals.

 

 

Edited June 21, 2023 by Chomper Higgot

[jerrymahoney]

https://www.ft.com/content/7fb3fa61-42ec-4f5b-9eda-523dfb368e1e

 

Smith has the reputation of being ready to prosecute a case as soon as an indictment is returned, Schwendiman ( Smith’s predecessor at the Kosovo tribunal), said. “You don’t leave loose ends, you are ready to go . . . And that should shake the boots of the people that are defending Mr Trump.”

 

And with that, I will say, at least for now, I am done responding to the 5 or 6 member tag team response to my posts on this and related topics.

[GroveHillWanderer]

For those saying Trump is being unfairly targeted solely for political reasons and prosecuted in a way that other people would not be for similar offences, take a look at the story below of a woman sentenced just today:

 

Quote

Fifty-year-old Kendra Kingsbury from Garden City, Kansas, was sentenced to three years and 10 months in federal prison without parole. This comes after she pleaded guilty in October to two counts of unlawfully retaining documents related to the national defense.

Former KC FBI analyst sentenced for keeping documents related to national defense

[Bkk Brian]

6 minutes ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

For those saying Trump is being unfairly targeted solely for political reasons and prosecuted in a way that other people would not be for similar offences, take a look at the story below of a woman sentenced just today:

 

Former KC FBI analyst sentenced for keeping documents related to national defense

Trump could easily have avoided all this, its all his own making:

 

Trump rejected lawyers’ efforts to avoid classified documents indictment

The attorney, Christopher Kise, wanted to quietly approach Justice to see if he could negotiate a settlement that would preclude charges, hoping Attorney General Merrick Garland and the department would want an exit ramp to avoid prosecuting a former president. Kise would hopefully “take the temperature down,” he told others, by promising a professional approach and the return of all documents.

But Trump was not interested after listening to other lawyers who urged a more pugilistic approach, so Kise never approached prosecutors, three people briefed on the matter said. A special counsel was appointed months later.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/06/14/trump-indictment-classified-documents-settlement/

https://archive.ph/fZ6RR

[LosLobo]

6 hours ago, jerrymahoney said:

https://www.ft.com/content/7fb3fa61-42ec-4f5b-9eda-523dfb368e1e

 

Smith has the reputation of being ready to prosecute a case as soon as an indictment is returned, Schwendiman ( Smith’s predecessor at the Kosovo tribunal), said. “You don’t leave loose ends, you are ready to go . . . And that should shake the boots of the people that are defending Mr Trump.”

 

And with that, I will say, at least for now, I am done responding to the 5 or 6 member tag team response to my posts on this and related topics.

What's the next project?

 

The five hour House Durham Report Investigation looks worthwhile.

[ozimoron]

1 hour ago, LosLobo said:

What's the next project?

 

The five hour House Durham Report Investigation looks worthwhile.

 

[Bkk Brian]

https://twitter.com/hugolowell/status/1671696691097923585

 

Download link

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.flsd.648654/gov.uscourts.flsd.648654.30.0.pdf

[LosLobo]

1 hour ago, ozimoron said:

 

Mine is more  bigly than yours'

John Durham Testifies on FBI Trump-Russia Investigation (c-span.org)

[candide]

More fun! I just can't get enough! ????

 

Trump Melts Down as DOJ Turns Over Evidence It Plans to Use Against Him

https://news.yahoo.com/trump-melts-down-doj-turns-133854634.html

 

A few quotes:

“CONGRESS, PLEASE INVESTIGATE THE POLITICAL WITCH HUNTS AGAINST ME CURRENTLY BEING BROUGHT BY THE CORRUPT DOJ AND FBI, WHO ARE TOTALLY OUT OF CONTROL,” Trump wrote Thursday morning. ????

 

“Congress will hopefully now look at the ever continuing Witch Hunts and ELECTION INTERFERENCE against me on perfectly legal Boxes, where I have no doubt that information is being secretly ‘planted’ by the scoundrels in charge,” ????

 

He knows he's toast!

 

 

Edited June 22, 2023 by candide

[onthedarkside]

Obama: Trump indictment ‘less than ideal’ but shows ‘nobody’s above the law’

 

 

In an interview with CNN’s Christiane Amanpour that will air Thursday, Obama said the indictment does not send the best message internationally because of signs that suggest democratic norms are being rolled back in the U.S. and throughout the world.

 

“It’s less than ideal,” Obama said. “But the fact that we have a former president who is having to answer to charges brought by prosecutors does uphold the basic notion that nobody’s above the law, and the allegations will now be sorted out through a court process.” 

 

https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/4062633-obama-trump-indictment-less-than-ideal-but-shows-nobodys-above-the-law/

 

[Bkk Brian]

4 hours ago, candide said:

More fun! I just can't get enough! ????

 

Trump Melts Down as DOJ Turns Over Evidence It Plans to Use Against Him

https://news.yahoo.com/trump-melts-down-doj-turns-133854634.html

 

A few quotes:

“CONGRESS, PLEASE INVESTIGATE THE POLITICAL WITCH HUNTS AGAINST ME CURRENTLY BEING BROUGHT BY THE CORRUPT DOJ AND FBI, WHO ARE TOTALLY OUT OF CONTROL,” Trump wrote Thursday morning. ????

 

“Congress will hopefully now look at the ever continuing Witch Hunts and ELECTION INTERFERENCE against me on perfectly legal Boxes, where I have no doubt that information is being secretly ‘planted’ by the scoundrels in charge,” ????

 

He knows he's toast!

 

 

So Trump now knows who's going to be testifying against him and throws a wobbly............lol

 

Maybe he also just found out about this also!

 

Ex-FBI Analyst Gets 46 Months Behind Bars For Same Charge Trump Faces

A former FBI intelligence analyst charged with the same violation of the Espionage Act as former President Donald Trump was sentenced this week to nearly four years in prison by a Missouri federal judge.

Kendra Kingsbury admitted in 2017 to having more than 380 classified documents in her home in digital and physical formats while she was employed by the FBI’s Kansas City division, court records show. She held the highest level of security clearance available during her more than 12 years at the agency.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/fbi-analyst-classified-documents-espionage-sentence_n_6494a8d0e4b02f808ab48c38

 

Or that there are more tapes........lol

 

Special counsel Jack Smith disclosed in a court filing Wednesday that investigators had more tapes of interviews with Trump conducted by non-government entities and recorded with his consent but did not say what the tapes said or how they were obtained.

The new reporting provides more insight into how the special counsel conducted its investigation and what kinds of evidence it has. Prosecutors are required to turn over all of the evidence they have collected to Trump’s defense team, even if it is not going to be used in the case at trial.

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/06/22/politics/trump-tapes-special-counsel-evidence/index.html