Rejection of Pita’s renomination as PM ‘unconstitutional’ : Ombudsman

[Eric Loh]

11 minutes ago, Purdey said:

Renominated but rejected by the Senate. What's changed? 

IMO if the legal challenges are adjudicated that it was unconstitution, the Presiding Officer can expell the offenders (Parliamentary Rule) and perhaps even from voting. From my standpoint, that will narrow down the senates votes and give the advantage to Pita. In the sphere of public opinion, it will discredit the senates more than they already have. Hope and prayers all we got. 

[bradiston]

1 hour ago, sambum said:

"There is a vendetta against Pita, just as there was against Thanathorn,........."

 

Correct, and it would appear that if they thought they could have got away with it, they would have charged Pita and the MFP for threatening to change the Constitution regarding the Lese Majeste law. It would also seem irrelevant in their eyes that the placement of 250 unelected Senators was unconstitutional, and therefore Prayut illegally changed the Constitution to allow that to happen! And that he took power illegally from a legally elected Government! 

The current Government run by the military junta has been a totally hypocritical set up from the start, and as pointed out previously, their mantra seems to have been "do as I say, not as I do", and for the to call their Government "democratic" is the very epitome of hypocricy!

The argument over amending Section 112 isn't a constitutional issue. Section 112 refers to Section 112 of the Thai Criminal Code. It's that simple. Of course the Bentstate has framed it as an attempt to overthrow the state. It's a complete disgrace. I'd sue for defamation if I was Pita. It's all part of a campaign of misinformation and demonisation. I hope at the end of all this heads will roll and the perpetrators exposed. Already they're backing off. Brown trousers are on order.

[Mohican]

1 hour ago, spidermike007 said:

Unconstitutional, unethical, likely illegal, corrupt, ugly, snarly, sleazy, suspicious, bizarre, fishy, ill mannered, inconsiderate, and arrogant. 

 

Can anything be done about it? Why have only 1,000 people shown up for a protest? Does anyone care? Where is the anger, indignation, and refusal to accept such a miscarriage of justice? Do the Thai people have any fight in them, or is this a complete surrender to the forces of darkness? 

Coming out to fight is just what the bastards want them to do. Re-imposition of martial law because of a threat to law and order will have the army back in control faster than you can blink. I think MF are more clever than that and know a better way to turn the situation, but don't discount violence from the other side if it looks like Pita is going to win.

For the powers that be - there's too much riding on this. A move towards a democratic state with reforms to the monopolies etc. is going to p!ss off a lot of influential people.

This can't happen overnight without some compromises however difficult and distasteful that might be.

 

[bradiston]

54 minutes ago, Purdey said:

Renominated but rejected by the Senate. What's changed? 

His renomination was blocked, so it never got that far.

[bradiston]

2 hours ago, sambum said:

 "........pita was ordered to step down due to an order from the constitutional court."

 

"rejecting the Move Forward party leader’s renomination as a prime ministerial candidate, and demanding that the case be forwarded to the Constitutional Court for consideration."

 

So, the way that I read it is that the Constitutional Court ordered Pita to step down, but the Ombudsman is now saying that that order was "unconstitutional"/illegal", and that they should reverse their decision and allow Pita's renomination to go ahead.

 

However, that now seems "academic" as Pita and the MFP have now effectively "thrown the towel in", and another coalition party has put forward a candidate for PM, so all this seems to be now is a face saving exercise, which as we know is of paramount importance here in Thailand! 

 

 

 

 

 

No. He was suspended as an MP pending further enquiries into the ITV shares nonsense. But he can still stand for prime minister, as the prime minister doesn't have to be an MP. Yeah, TIT.

 

The invocation of rule 41 is what is being appealed against to the CC, via the ombudsman, as unconstitutional.

 

Your last paragraph you can scrub. Yes, MFP were prepared to let PT nominate their candidate, Srettha Thavisin, but at the time it was assumed Pita was unable to stand again. That's now under appeal, so his nomination would supercede Srettha's.

 

 

[bradiston]

52 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

The man is nothing but a serial filer of frivolous cases and claims and should be sued for any case rejected for defaming the individual in his false filing.

Absolutely!

[cleopatra2]

18 minutes ago, bradiston said:

No. He was suspended as an MP pending further enquiries into the ITV shares nonsense. But he can still stand for prime minister, as the prime minister doesn't have to be an MP. Yeah, TIT.

 

The invocation of rule 41 is what is being appealed against to the CC, via the ombudsman, as unconstitutional.

 

Your last paragraph you can scrub. Yes, MFP were prepared to let PT nominate their candidate, Srettha Thavisin, but at the time it was assumed Pita was unable to stand again. That's now under appeal, so his nomination would supercede Srettha's.

 

 

Regarding the PM does not have to be a MP. However the PM candidate still falls under the prohibition of MPs , namely section 98.

I would envisage if Pita is approved as PM whilst the issue of ITV shares is still unresolved , then a petition on Pita suitability as a minister will be lodged.

Section 89 of the constitution leads to section 160 ( prohibitions of ministers) , which further leads to section 98 and the prohibition of share ownership arises again.

Edited July 25, 2023 by cleopatra2

[bradiston]

1 hour ago, sambum said:

"There is a vendetta against Pita, just as there was against Thanathorn,........."

 

Correct, and it would appear that if they thought they could have got away with it, they would have charged Pita and the MFP for threatening to change the Constitution regarding the Lese Majeste law. It would also seem irrelevant in their eyes that the placement of 250 unelected Senators was unconstitutional, and therefore Prayut illegally changed the Constitution to allow that to happen! And that he took power illegally from a legally elected Government! 

The current Government run by the military junta has been a totally hypocritical set up from the start, and as pointed out previously, their mantra seems to have been "do as I say, not as I do", and for the to call their Government "democratic" is the very epitome of hypocricy!

The other point to make is, the 250 Senators were put there according to the rewritten 2016 constitution. You can read about how Prayuth and co forced it through here:

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Thai_constitutional_referendum

 

The interesting thing about the Senate is, its make up is surprisingly similar to that of the House of Lords in the UK. In theory it is actually more egalitarian. There is no heredity. Senators can't sit in consecutive Senates. And it is made up of academics, representatives of the Arts, Science, Law etc etc. What has gone horribly wrong though has been its corralling of the senators into a particular political camp. This is absolutely forbidden in its mandate. See

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senate_of_Thailand

 

The senators cannot belong to any political party. Etc etc.

 

So I can see huge numbers of lawsuits flying in the direction of... Well, yes, where? The President should have absolutely reminded the members of their obligation to remain non partisan for sure. It's a complete failure of governance.

 

 

[anchadian]

And so it continues:

Democrat’s Tankhun Jitt-itsara filed a petition to ask House Speaker Wan Noor to investigate Pita for allowing a 10-year-old to make speeches and answer political questions on MFP’s campaign stage. He also asked the speaker to investigate Sirin Sanguansi, MFP Bangkok MP, who admitted to assaulting a woman before charges were dropped. He said the party is exploiting the 10-year-old for political benefits, while Sirin has damaged the reputation of parliamentarians.

 

https://twitter.com/ThaiEnquirer/status/1683718746383466497

 

[wwest5829]

A familiar saying came to mind. "The beatings will continue until morale improves".

[Purdey]

2 hours ago, bradiston said:

His renomination was blocked, so it never got that far.

Are you sure the senate will change its mind? Can't win without them.

[ThailandRyan]

46 minutes ago, anchadian said:

And so it continues:

Democrat’s Tankhun Jitt-itsara filed a petition to ask House Speaker Wan Noor to investigate Pita for allowing a 10-year-old to make speeches and answer political questions on MFP’s campaign stage. He also asked the speaker to investigate Sirin Sanguansi, MFP Bangkok MP, who admitted to assaulting a woman before charges were dropped. He said the party is exploiting the 10-year-old for political benefits, while Sirin has damaged the reputation of parliamentarians.

 

https://twitter.com/ThaiEnquirer/status/1683718746383466497

 

The mudslinging continues and so turnabout would be fair play. Time for MFP to drag the Senate's skeletons from the closets they have them hidden in.

[bradiston]

27 minutes ago, Purdey said:

Are you sure the senate will change its mind? Can't win without them.

True. Pita hinted a few days ago that he believes he now has the numbers he needs to get the vote through for the PMship. Whether he's managed to talk some senators around who knows? I can't help believing they are in the main rational fair minded human beings. Pita is a very personable young man. I'm sure if he had the chance to put his case across in person, explaining the whole 112 controversy, it might win over a few hearts and minds. Plus, there's the threat of being outed by a variety of lawsuits for acting in extreme bad faith, not to mention against democratic principles running counter to all ethical norms, in the great number of abstentions.

 

Of course this could amount to nothing more than a load of old twaddle. I'm an incurable optimist I guess.

[scorecard]

9 hours ago, pomchop said:

Maybe the court should take a look at how the junta rewrote the constitution and placed 250 UNELECTED flunkies into the senate to rig the rules so nobody can ever seriously challenge their control after staging an illegal coup?

Agree.

 

In fact it seems to me that the opposition should be going all out / using every activity / legal avenue possible to create total havoc aimed at getting the constitution changed.

 

Sure, very very difficult but it must be tacked in every possible way to create enough 'fire' to force some action to adjust the constitution.

 

It must be possible.

 

From my understanding of the law it's ILLEGAL to create laws, in any country, which cannot be challenged / changed. 

[n00dle]

21 hours ago, Stanaris said:

Whether his renomination was unconstitutional or not is irrelevant as pita was ordered to step down due to an order from the constitutional court. Well that is my understanding but I am sure the experts on here will correct me if this is wrong.

 

you are wrong. he was ordered to step down an an MP, that does not affect his ability to be nominated as PM. our incumbent PM, Prayut, did not even run in the last election.  

[Puccini]

22 hours ago, Stanaris said:

Whether his renomination was unconstitutional or not is irrelevant as pita was ordered to step down due to an order from the constitutional court. Well that is my understanding but I am sure the experts on here will correct me if this is wrong.

 

According to a news report I saw, the constitutional court suspended Pita while it hears a case that could see him disqualified as an MP.

 

https://www.barrons.com/news/thai-constitutional-court-suspends-reformist-pita-as-mp-statement-6c405b3

 

[bradiston]

1 hour ago, Purdey said:

Are you sure the senate will change its mind? Can't win without them.

It seems to me that reforming the senate might be possible. You're never going to vote it out of existence. Ok if you rewrote the constitution maybe. Remove their ability to effectively veto, and give them a purely advisory role. Sure, they might not like it, but who's to say? Do they really want to be embroiled in all this head banging? 

[anchadian]

https://twitter.com/SaksithCNA/status/1683753525501923329

 

[bradiston]

6 minutes ago, Puccini said:

According to a news report I saw, the constitutional court suspended Pita while it hears a case that could see him disqualified as an MP.

 

https://www.barrons.com/news/thai-constitutional-court-suspends-reformist-pita-as-mp-statement-6c405b3

 

The worst outcome is he gets barred for x number of years. That's what happened to Thanathorn. But it was a different case. They're making owning shares look like a capital offense. At worst he can plead it was an oversight. At best, they'll throw it out altogether.

[bradiston]

3 minutes ago, anchadian said:

https://twitter.com/SaksithCNA/status/1683753525501923329

 

Funny they have whips in the senate when membership of a political party is expressly banned. Indeed, allegiance to any particular political doctrine. Bet that might be worth investigating.

[Puccini]

41 minutes ago, bradiston said:

Funny they have whips in the senate when membership of a political party is expressly banned. Indeed, allegiance to any particular political doctrine. Bet that might be worth investigating.

What the English-language newspapers call whips in the Thai parliament are probably not what you perhaps know from the parliaments of other countries. I wonder what Thai word is being translated here as whip.

[scorecard]

1 hour ago, bradiston said:

It seems to me that reforming the senate might be possible. You're never going to vote it out of existence. Ok if you rewrote the constitution maybe. Remove their ability to effectively veto, and give them a purely advisory role. Sure, they might not like it, but who's to say? Do they really want to be embroiled in all this head banging? 

I believe they do, it's all about the glory of the military, very powerful stuff.

 

However if some of their responsibilities/their powers, e.g, voting for PM were stopped that would be very valuable to get back to some sembance of democracy and respect for the votes of all citizens.

Edited July 25, 2023 by scorecard

[Artisi]

1 hour ago, Puccini said:

What the English-language newspapers call whips in the Thai parliament are probably not what you perhaps know from the parliaments of other countries. I wonder what Thai word is being translated here as whip.

You would need to ask some of the bar girls for a literal translation of whip ????

[kiwikeith]

On 7/25/2023 at 11:38 AM, kcpattaya said:

Bottom line is that the army powers will prevent Pita from becoming PM. 

There's is nothing you can do about this Ombudsman.

That's a lovely smile 

[Puccini]

On 7/25/2023 at 12:28 PM, scorecard said:

I believe they do, it's all about the glory of the military, very powerful stuff.

 

However if some of their responsibilities/their powers, e.g, voting for PM were stopped that would be very valuable to get back to some sembance of democracy and respect for the votes of all citizens.

I did some research and the wepage library.parliament.go.th/en/museum-and-archive/useful-knowledge does indeed mention whips in the House of representatives.

 

Since news articles talk also about a whip in the Senate, I'm now covinced that they also have at least one. If his job is also to whip the memers to vote the way they are told, this would be unconstitutional.

 

Section 114. Members of the House of Representatives and Senators are representatives of the Thai people and free from any mandate, commitment, or control. Theys shall perform duties honestly for the common interest of the Nation and the happiness of Thai people as a whole, without conflict of interest.

 

Section 115. Before taking office, a Member of the House of Representatives and a Senator shall make a solemn declaration at a sitting of the House of which he or she is a member in the following words:

“I, (name of the declarer), do solemnly declare that I will perform my duties in accordance with the honest dictates of my conscience for the common interest of the Thai people. I will also uphold and observe the Constitution of the Kingdom of Thailand in every respect.”

 

Edited July 27, 2023 by Puccini
added quote of Sections 114 and 115 of the Constitution