Converting from Non-IMM O to Non-IMM OX

[Mike Teavee]

The current discussions about possible changes to "Retirement" Visas & potential increase in how much money you need to keep in the bank got me to thinking....

 

 

Is it possible to convert from a Non-IMM O to a Non-IMM OX without leaving Thailand? 

 

I know you would need... 

    - 3Million in the Bank (or 1.5 Million and 100K pm income)

    - Health Insurance 

    - Criminal Records Check

But assuming you had all these & were happy with keeping a minimum balance of 1.5 Million in the bank (& ignoring the 1Million deposit  protection limit) would it be possible to convert to the 10 year visa or would you have to "Exit" your current visa and get a new Non-IMM OX outside of Thailand?

[DrJack54]

In this thread ubonjoe posts meaning not possible.

 

https://aseannow.com/topic/1164674-non-immigrant-visa-o-x/

[Celsius]

3 million is not a lot of money, but how long does it need to be locked during those 10 years?

 

One of my biggest issues is I croak and the government takes it all.

[sqwakvfr]

Last time I checked a Non Imm OX is issued by Thai Embassy or Consulate.  This would require an application on the EVisa system.  

[Pattaya57]

5 minutes ago, Celsius said:

3 million is not a lot of money, but how long does it need to be locked during those 10 years?

 

One of my biggest issues is I croak and the government takes it all.

Thai Consulate in Aussie says needs to show $A150k in bank for last 6 months. You would only then need to show the same for renewal at 5 year mark so free to spend as you like up to 6 months before renewal

[Celsius]

17 minutes ago, Pattaya57 said:

Thai Consulate in Aussie says needs to show $A150k in bank for last 6 months. You would only then need to show the same for renewal at 5 year mark so free to spend as you like up to 6 months before renewal

 

So no need to deposit into Thai bank account at all?

 

Sounds too good.....

[Pattaya57]

23 minutes ago, Celsius said:

 

So no need to deposit into Thai bank account at all?

 

Sounds too good.....

Thai Consulate in Sydney has O-X requirements exactly the same as the O-A except need A$150k in bank. So anyone applying for O-A might as well go for the O-X and get a 5 year multi-entry visa if they have the cash in home bank

 

For info both O-X and O-A visa requires police name check, medical check, 1 year health insurance certificate and the 6 month bank statement

 

Edited August 5, 2023 by Pattaya57

[DrJack54]

38 minutes ago, sqwakvfr said:

Last time I checked a Non Imm OX is issued by Thai Embassy or Consulate.  This would require an application on the EVisa system.  

Not all countries have eVisa.

Regarding where to apply here is quote from ubonjoe from thread I posted earlier...

 

"The non-ox visa can only be applied for at a Thai embassy or official consulate in your home country or country of legal residence"

[Pib]

59 minutes ago, Pattaya57 said:

Thai Consulate in Aussie says needs to show $A150k in bank for last 6 months. You would only then need to show the same for renewal at 5 year mark so free to spend as you like up to 6 months before renewal

I think the Thai Embassy Sydney website is misleading/incomplete regarding the deposit/income requirements as it "implies" the funds could be in a Australian bank and doesn't talk other deposit requirements.  Maybe Syndey is the different (rogue) when it comes to the requirements or maybe their site is just lacking.

 

However, all other OX visa related websites I went to like the Thailand Ministry of Foreign Affairs,  Thai Embassy Camberra,   and Thai Embassy Washington D.C. are very clear the funds need to be deposited in a "Thai bank" and there are rules as to when and how much it can dropped below the required Bt3M.

[Pib]

As to the OP's question of "Can a Non O be changed to a Non OX within Thailand" I'm not aware of any provision that allows that just like you can't change from a Non OA to a Non O visa (or visa versa) within Thailand.  It needs to be done outside the country at a Thai embassy. 

[Pattaya57]

35 minutes ago, Pib said:

I think the Thai Embassy Sydney website is misleading/incomplete regarding the deposit/income requirements as it "implies" the funds could be in a Australian bank and doesn't talk other deposit requirements.  Maybe Syndey is the different (rogue) when it comes to the requirements or maybe their site is just lacking.

Yeah I can not figure out why Sydney Consulate is so different to the Thai Embassy in Canberra. Sydney does make more sense though as if you're not in Thailand on a non-immigrant O/O-A you can't get bank account to put the 3 million in.

 

I do like Sydney rogue rules though as I just got a tourist visa from Sydney without a flight booking or any accommodation booked and yet Canberra insist on copy of flight ticket in and out and 60 days confirmed accommodation

 

Edited August 5, 2023 by Pattaya57

[Pattaya57]

If we have to leave 3 million baht in a Thai bank that would be pretty silly. You can easily get 5% in an Australia bank and what, get 0.8% in Thailand?

 

That's losing 126,000 baht per year

[Pattaya57]

1 hour ago, Pib said:

However, all other OX visa related websites I went to like the Thailand Ministry of Foreign Affairs,

Interesting that the MFA site you linked to says:

 

"The visa fee is 10,000 Baht (or local currency equivalent if applying outside Thailand)"

 

Surely that implies you can apply in Thailand?

 

Edited August 5, 2023 by Pattaya57

[Pib]

39 minutes ago, Pattaya57 said:

Interesting that the MFA site you linked to says:

 

"The visa fee is 10,000 Baht (or local currency equivalent if applying outside Thailand)"

 

Surely that implies you can apply in Thailand?

 

No....It does not mean you can get the visa within Thailand.  Although the MFA fee is quoted in baht the fee at a Thai embassy would be based on the currency used in that foriegn country and the exchange rate used by the embassy in that country.

[Pib]

1 hour ago, Pattaya57 said:

If we have to leave 3 million baht in a Thai bank that would be pretty silly. You can easily get 5% in an Australia bank and what, get 0.8% in Thailand?

 

That's losing 126,000 baht per year

The Thai govt don't think it's silly as your money in a Thai bank helps Thai banks fund loans, make investments, etc., which helps the Thai economy.  Money in a foriegn bank does none of that.

[khunPer]

10 hours ago, Mike Teavee said:

Is it possible to convert from a Non-IMM O to a Non-IMM OX without leaving Thailand?

No.

 

Why do you need to change, it's much more convenient with a non-O based on retirement and annual extensions of stay; i.e. only 800k baht in deposit and no claim for health insurance.

[Mike Teavee]

12 hours ago, khunPer said:

No.

 

Why do you need to change, it's much more convenient with a non-O based on retirement and annual extensions of stay; i.e. only 800k baht in deposit and no claim for health insurance.

I don't "need" to change, I was just mulling over my options for long term stay in Thailand [I should have added in my OP that the upcoming changes to the Thailand Elite Visa also prompted my question as I've also been considering the 20 year 1 Million THB visa before the changes coming on 15th September] 

 

As things stand I have decided to stick with my Non-IMM O (I do keep 800K in the Bank + have Health Insurance anyway) and do nothing for the next couple of years until my pensions start to pay out & then will go for the LTR visa.  

 

 

Thanks to all for your replies & here's hoping any changes to the Non-IMM O include Grandfathering for existing holders

 

[CANSIAM]

I had a brief chat with an IO a while back doing my extension, she said OX is obtainable in Thailand but you need to show your 3 million baht has been in a Thai bank for one year at application date plus the other prerequisites etc........but of course it was only a verbal from one IO.....

[arithai12]

22 hours ago, Celsius said:

3 million is not a lot of money, but how long does it need to be locked during those 10 years?

 

One of my biggest issues is I croak and the government takes it all.

Sooner or later, sorry to break it to you, you are going to die. I wish you later of course, but your issue remains regardless of what amount you leave in a Thai bank. It is perfectly possible to write a Thai will in which you state who should benefit, see a lawyer or agent and have it stamped/deposited at your local Amphur.

[arithai12]

19 hours ago, Pattaya57 said:

If we have to leave 3 million baht in a Thai bank that would be pretty silly. You can easily get 5% in an Australia bank and what, get 0.8% in Thailand?

 

That's losing 126,000 baht per year

I am amazed that Australia gives 5% for a deposit that can be redeemed anytime and with low tax like the 800k in Thailand. But yes you are right on the principle, that 800k in the bank here produces almost nothing, while it could produce about 40k per year elsewhere. That's about 3000 THB per month, a small fraction of my living expenses, I call it the price for peace of mind and try not to think about it. About the 3M, I don't know why a person who qualifies for non-imm O Ret would want to look for other visa types. Ultimately we are all on the same boat, long-term guests with no real guarantee unless PR or citizen.

[BritTim]

If you are thinking about a possible Non OX visa, look into the LTR-WP (Long Term Resident Wealthy Pensioner) visa instead. It is far superior.

[Pattaya57]

20 minutes ago, BritTim said:

If you are thinking about a possible Non OX visa, look into the LTR-WP (Long Term Resident Wealthy Pensioner) visa instead. It is far superior.

Why do you think LTR-WP is superior? It costs a lot more and requires proof of income of US$80,000 per year or $40,000 plus US$250,000 invested in Thailand (that's about 8.6 million baht). I don't see how they're comparable?

 

Edited August 6, 2023 by Pattaya57

[BritTim]

7 minutes ago, Pattaya57 said:

Why do you think LTR-WP is superior? It costs a lot more and requires proof of income of US$80,000 per year or $40,000 plus US$250,000 invested in Thailand (that's about 8.6 million baht). I don't see how they're comparable?

 

It is only superior if you qualify. Many people looking at the Non OX visa do. If you do not qualify, it is obviously not superior.

 

Some advantages: no annual extensions, no 90-day reports (report once a year if you do not travel outside Thailand during that time), ability to work if you wish (with a virtual and automatic work permit included), greater willingness to accept overseas insurance policies., five-year permission to stay,

[Pattaya57]

12 minutes ago, BritTim said:

It is only superior if you qualify. Many people looking at the Non OX visa do. If you do not qualify, it is obviously not superior.

 

Some advantages: no annual extensions, no 90-day reports (report once a year if you do not travel outside Thailand during that time), ability to work if you wish (with a virtual and automatic work permit included), greater willingness to accept overseas insurance policies., five-year permission to stay,

I qualify but still don't see the value in an LTR unless you are under 50 and plan to work digitally in Thailand. It costs 50,000 baht + 3000 for the digital work permit

[BritTim]

1 minute ago, Pattaya57 said:

I qualify but still don't see the value in an LTR unless you are under 50 and plan to work digitally in Thailand. It costs 50,000 baht + 3000 for the digital work permit

Work out how much 10 years of extensions and re-entry permits will cost (without considering the costs for bank letters and travel to/from immigration offices) and then tell me that the 50,000 baht to avoid the need for them is excessive. In my view, the low visa application fee is one of the attractions.

 

If you feel it is not for you, fine. Many for whom it will seem attractive are unaware that the option exists.

[Pattaya57]

Just now, BritTim said:

Work out how much 10 years of extensions and re-entry permits will cost (without considering the costs for bank letters and travel to/from immigration offices) and then tell me that the 50,000 baht to avoid the need for them is excessive. In my view, the low visa application fee is one of the attractions.

You said LTR was better than O-X but then compare LTR cost to Non-Imm O yearly extension cost with re-entry permits. Isn't an O-X a 5+5 year multi-entry visa for 10,000 baht with no re-entry permits required?

[BritTim]

4 minutes ago, Pattaya57 said:

You said LTR was better than O-X but then compare LTR cost to Non-Imm O yearly extension cost with re-entry permits. Isn't an O-X a 5+5 year multi-entry visa for 10,000 baht with no re-entry permits required?

True. Do you have a Non-OX visa? If not, why not?

Many who qualify will not be deterred from an LTR-WP visa by the US$0.39 per day cost.

[Pib]

46 minutes ago, Pattaya57 said:

I qualify but still don't see the value in an LTR unless you are under 50 and plan to work digitally in Thailand. It costs 50,000 baht + 3000 for the digital work permit

That's Bt50K for a 10 year LTR Pensioner visa includes a multi-reentry permit...that averages out to Bt5K per year.    And you are authorized a work permit on a LTR visa...even a pensioner visa.   And address reporting is once every 365 days.  You only need to extend the LTR visa once at the 5 year midterm point which has zero fee as the initial Bt50K fee paid for the 1st  5 years and 2nd 5 years.   And the great feeling of having a l....o....n.....g term visa without the "annual" reapplication process.....it's a good feeling....highly recommended.

 

If you would get a Non-O/OA Retirement 1 year visa that would be Bt1.9K/year for the basic 1 year fee via plus another  Bt3.8K/year fee for a multi-reentry permit for a total of Bt5.7K/year.  If on an OA visa you can't get a work permit, but you can have a work permit on an O visa.  And address reporting is once every 90 days.   And of course you have the "annual" reapplication process/concern/worry/etc., which is one of the most popular reasons for posting on AseanNow.

 

So, if you qualify for a LTR visa all it's benefits such as no annual renewal (just a mid term renewal), multi-reentry permit, work permit (if desired) and address reporting only once a year, then the joy of not needing to do (or worry about) an annual visa/extension can be yours.   

 

Edit: and if you qualify for a LTR Pensioner visa under the  USD $80K passive/pension income provision you don't have to make any investment in Thailand, no in-Thailand bank deposit needed, etc...all you funds can stay in your home country if desired.   But if you qualify under the USD $40K up to USD $80K passive/pension income provision then a USD $250K investment in Thailand such as property (like a condo), Thai govt bonds, or foreign direct investment is required.  Sometimes people already have a condo in Thailand worth at least USD $250K which satisfies the investment requirement if going the USD $40K method....so, basically if they have the $40K income they will meet the income requirement for the LTR 10 year pensioner visa.

Edited August 6, 2023 by Pib

[Pattaya57]

9 minutes ago, BritTim said:

True. Do you have a Non-OX visa? If not, why not?

I will if Thai Consulate in Sydney will ever answer my email about their O-X requirement to have A$150k in Aus bank, while it was pointed out in this thread that everywhere else says you need 3 million baht in a Thailand bank

 

Can't just apply and hope it's correct as you have to purchase 1 year health insurance for application 

[Mike Teavee]

16 minutes ago, Pattaya57 said:

You said LTR was better than O-X but then compare LTR cost to Non-Imm O yearly extension cost with re-entry permits. Isn't an O-X a 5+5 year multi-entry visa for 10,000 baht with no re-entry permits required?

I would go for the LTR if I qualified (hold my hands up, I don't on income grounds as I'm living on rental/dividend income & due to Covid, 2000/2001 were bad dividend years for my main holdings)  and if I was already planning on purchasing a >8.5Million THB property (Which I am).... I wouldn't bring in $250,000 for any other reason than to purchase property.

 

I would have gone for the Non-Imm OX if it had been available when I was getting my 1st (Non-IMM O) visa hence me creating the topic, but have more or less decided now to wait out the next 2.5 years until I can show a guaranteed > $40K income from my private pensions and go for the LTR 

 

As an aside I really am hoping that any changes to Retirement Visa will introduce a new 1/2 way "house" between LTR/Non-IMM OX and current Non-IMM O/OA giving a 5 year visa for higher financial limits... But I know i should be careful what I wish for!