Everywhere in White Man Thailand (including my own mirror) I experience this same sense of chains being thrown off. 

 

That's something that Thai people likely never experience.

 

So on a fundamental emotional level, we are fairly incomprehensible to each other.

20 hours ago, newbee2022 said:

What is your opinion??

I stopped worrying about this sort of stuff years ago.

 

"A lion doesn't concern itself with the opinion of sheep." - Tywin Lannister

 

 

like anywhere else in the world. Act like a Sj!the@d and you will be treated like that. It all starts with yourself. 

27 minutes ago, LaosLover said:

I say with zero snark, since I always click on you guys when I see your name:

 

You and BangkokReady have lived at the absolute top of the freedom food chain forever and still found that wanting.

 

Then you found a place where you could feel yet even more free -even tho it's not a particularly free place for the locals.

 

That's a beautiful thing.

I think it depends on what you want to be "free from" and how the particular freedoms of a place affect the people there.

 

People are never truly free.  They are always controlled in some ways.  Where people are more politically free, they are often far less socially free.  Just look at the difference in terms of "social freedoms" in Western countries.  A lot of anxiety, pressure to follow the herd, materialism, consumerism, ect..

 

I don't think anyone could say that Thai people aren't, in general, far more free from stress and worry than people in Western countries.  Surely, if the freedom experienced in Western countries is the ideal and superior freedom, people in the West should be much, much happier than people in non-Western countries.

 

There are pros and cons in every situation, and I would argue that we are actually far less free in Western countries, specifically in order to ensure that certain standards of safety, law and order, and protection of the individual and minorities are, upheld.

9 minutes ago, BangkokReady said:

 

 

I would argue that we are actually far less free in Western countries, specifically in order to ensure that certain standards of safety, law and order, and protection of the individual and minorities are, upheld.

Yeah, but we have the freedom to pick where we live.

 

And we've had the cumulative freedoms that taught us to value freedom, which they haven't had. 

 

You believe in self-determination, they believe I in a merit making treadmill where past lives and ancestral sins may well be spiking the luck-ball, no matter what they do.

 

The only common denominator would be $ as freedom. But the number of Thai men so unencumbered by family ties as to be able to up stakes and move to their version of Freedom-Paradise?

 

Close to zero.

The situation has changed over the last fifty years with the advent of mass tourism.Before then, farang were generally much respected by Thais but they were mainly senior business managers, academics or independently wealthy - and almost all resident in Bangkok.Critically, they were better educated and a higher social class than most farang today.They took full advantage of all the usual Thai delights but were much more discrete. The English for example had the reputation of being gentlemanly, partly because many residents were from this background but also because many Thai royals/aristocrats were educated in England.To apply this gentlemanly description to most English expats today would of course be laughable.

 

Many of the comments on this thread are skewed because they reflect only one part of Thai society - the money grubbing peasant class whether encountered in the bars of Pattaya and maybe later in some rural village .They don't reflect the charm and good manners of Thais as a whole (and I'm not of course referring in my money grubbing comment to the vast majority of Thai villagers who have no connection with foreigners)

 

One characteristic is that normal Thais like to be able to "place" a foreigner. Who is he? Why is he here? Where was he educated? Do we have acquaintances in common? Does he look the part? What job does he do? The peasant class is less demanding in its curiosity.

My experience with wife and girlfriends families is we can often think too much.

We ain't that special. If you try and act important and spend up they will enjoy your largesse but if you be yourself they will like you, or be bored by you, similar to how they are with each other. 

 

 

1 hour ago, BangkokReady said:

Yes.  Western countries used to be the same.  It was better for the natives but very bad for foreigners.  Much like Thailand is now.  Things have changed in Western countries, this seems to have made them far more dangerous and far less happy.  But "the individual" (especially minorities) has a lot more protection.  ????‍♂️

 

I think that's what we like about Thailand.  If we manage to be allowed in by some group or family, we can benefit from the closeness and happiness, but, inevitably, we suffer from it a lot also.

The more things change, the more they stay the same---or revert to the mean.

 

The US, under old school liberals, tried to become racially blind, beginning in maybe the 1970s or 80s. Music really crossed racial lines, with groups like Earth, Wind & Fire, Sly & the Family Stone, Tina Turner, etc., popular across the racial spectrum. White kids had posters of David Thompson, Walter Payton or later Michael Jordan on the bedroom wall. Blacks had Larry Bird or Joe Montana. Blacks and Whites were on the same TV show. Capt Kirk even kissed Uhura (Star Trek). By 2000, the best golfer was Black (Tiger) and the best rapper was White (Eminem).

 

Now it's Blacks shows or White shows, and sports heroes look like you.

 

The new 'liberals', whom many call 'woke', are reverting back to racial identity as being the be all and end all. College dorms are now segregated by race. Everything must be 'inclusive' and 'diverse' (except college dorms). If awards---even Oscars---don't have Black or Asian winners, it's prima facie proof of 'racism', even if there was no top level performance by non-Whites.

 

Liberalism used to mean color blind. Today it's eyes wide open and we don't celebrate the differences, we demand they be seen.

4 hours ago, NorthernRyland said:

On paper we have free speech but you will absolutely face backlash and lose your job, friends etc.. if you make racist or any other illiberal comments.

 

Case in point I'm in the US now and I was language policed by some family for using the r-word (retard) and the phrase "these people". If I did this enough and at a job I'm 100% certain I would get fired eventually.

 

Yeah it's bleak right now in the "home of free". Much more freedom to be found in Thailand.

True. I use the word retarded sometimes. To describe myself, my friends or some dumb move. Makes people very uncomfortable these days. I don't really care. Some with ladyboy. Most ladyboys here seen fine with that term. How many insist on transgender? 

 

Speech policing can become quite boring. 

On 8/13/2023 at 11:12 AM, Lemsta69 said:

I stopped worrying about this sort of stuff years ago.

 

"A lion doesn't concern itself with the opinion of sheep." - Tywin Lannister

 

 

hmh, so YOU look down to Thai people? I can't believe it. I hope it was only a terrible booze which made you talk like this????

On 8/13/2023 at 10:10 AM, BangkokReady said:

Thai marrying a foreigner who is at the same level and provides the same things that a Thai they might marry are very slim

Well, but this changed within the last decade due to better education and skills in English language. The problem for all who get married to a different ethnic person is to express feelings in a third language. So the better knowledge in English the better the relation.....most times.

The money is of course a reason if you married a girl from rural areas. But then you are trapped as I described.

On 8/12/2023 at 6:01 PM, bignok said:

But more friendly than lots of ladies in the west.

I guess you would know...............????

Another way to put things aroung, is what do we as foreigners in a foreign country think of other foreigners, left alone the locals ?

 

I always find it very intriguing to hear foreigners-falangs whatever....foreigners in a foreign country, giving out against other foreigners.

1 minute ago, observer90210 said:

Another way to put things aroung, is what do we as foreigners in a foreign country think of other foreigners, left alone the locals ?

 

I always find it very intriguing to hear foreigners-falangs whatever....foreigners in a foreign country, giving out against other foreigners.

After being here many years, meeting many nationalities, in my opinion, we are all very different in attitude............

 

A couple of nationalities I try and avoid like the plague...........????

 

On 8/12/2023 at 5:18 PM, JensenZ said:

Let's put this into perspective. There are plenty of very fine women in Australia and the USA, but they will not be interested in elderly men. It's what you can get, not what you can see, that counts.

While this is true, one of the reasons I enjoy living in BKK is because so many pretty, feminine women about. Thai women are a good looking lot. They may not be the prettiest E Asian ethnicity but they are really lovely ????????

 

My wife is 48, still looks good and 44kg.

25 minutes ago, newbee2022 said:

hmh, so YOU look down to Thai people? I can't believe it. I hope it was only a terrible booze which made you talk like this????

No I don't look down on Thai people - at least not the man in the street - I'm not insecure and simply do not care what they think about me or any other foreigner. 

On 8/12/2023 at 3:23 PM, Dmaxdan said:

There is only a small percentage of Thais that are interested in  foreigners. Basically the ones who choose to travel and then work in the places where foreigners tend to gather. The wolves follow the sheep...

 

The majority have zero interest in us because they have way more interesting things to occupy themselves. We are completely irrelevant within their lives.

 

 

 

You forget that quite a few are actually working with foreigners in their office.

On 8/12/2023 at 6:20 PM, Lacessit said:

Many foreigner - Thai relationships start out as transactional. They either stay that way, or move on to love and trust.

I am under no illusions as to whether I am an ATM. Fine by me, as long as I get what I want in return.

It's a very easy choice for many Thai women. Work until they no longer can, then exist on a government pension of 600 baht once they turn 60. Or hook up with a foreigner, have a quite comfortable life instead.

IMO the average Thai man mostly regards us as better off than they are, but lacks the education to start questioning why. It's only Thais who have been outside Thailand that understand.

 

Typical view by somebody stuck with his knowledge of the sex industry part of Thailand.

On 8/13/2023 at 10:21 AM, sirineou said:

Never mind the US, where I am also from, and know what you are talking about. 

When my daughter was younger(7 or ???? and was playing soccer in the US, while we were in Europe, I decided to take her to Football (socker) there, to see how it was, and how big the sport is there. .

Thank god she did not understand the language of that country. The opposing team had a couple of black players, and you should hear the language of the fans. In the US or even Thailand they would had been arrested and or thrown out of the game. 

You and the guy you replied to make me laugh. US not racist? You still allow the KKK and robbed the natives of all their land and rights.

 

32 minutes ago, FritsSikkink said:

Typical view by somebody stuck with his knowledge of the sex industry part of Thailand.

Typical narrow-minded comment.

They see us as over-grown toddlers.

 

We need special food, a lot of help, we're always acting out. We get indulged a lot.

On 8/12/2023 at 4:25 PM, BritManToo said:

Who doesn't love small women?

If I wanted big manly women, I'd move to Australia.

If I wanted big fat women, I'd move to the USA.

Actually America has millions of small, lean gorgeous women. More are fat yes, but that's also the same most everywhere. Thailand's women are steadily getting bigger, and as they age, a lot get bigger, especially if they stop working on the farm and continue to drink sugary drinks and eat large quantities of rice.

40 minutes ago, FritsSikkink said:

You and the guy you replied to make me laugh. US not racist? You still allow the KKK and robbed the natives of all their land and rights.

 

That's what freedom does. It allows morons to act like morons, and weak minded followers. It also allows you to say most anything you want about politicians and the police without worrying you might be incarcerated or disappear. To oust elected officials if they do wrong, and to elect new ones if they fail to live up to their promises. That's freedom , which is unlike being suppressed by rich, power hungry narcissists. Racism is everywhere.

8 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

That's what freedom does. It allows morons to act like morons, and weak minded followers. It also allows you to say most anything you want about politicians and the police without worrying you might be incarcerated or disappear. To oust elected officials if they do wrong, and to elect new ones if they fail to live up to their promises. That's freedom , which is unlike being suppressed by rich, power hungry narcissists. Racism is everywhere.

Forgot about the natives who did a peaceful protested against a pipeline through their land? They got smashed by the police and arrested.

3 minutes ago, FritsSikkink said:

Forgot about the natives who did a peaceful protested against a pipeline through their land? They got smashed by the police and arrested.

Freedom has it's problems as said. Some policemen go too far, and should be held accountable. Like here with the water cannons and such against protestors wanting democracy. I'm against developers also, and protesting is a right to try and stop the rich who have money and power, and sometimes the law, on their side. No easy answer when money is involved. It rules over common sense and nature.

I wrote a long paper in grad school about how the Navaho were screwing the Hopi on water rights. The Zuni were then getting reamed by the Hopi.

 

It's a mean ol' world.

On 8/15/2023 at 5:46 AM, FritsSikkink said:

You and the guy you replied to make me laugh. US not racist? You still allow the KKK and robbed the natives of all their land and rights.

 

You misunderstood.

Or perhaps English is not your first language

 LaosLover

was being sarcastic when he said " thank god I come from the US where we don't have this type of thing" meaning that racism is not an exclusively Thai thing. and I agreeing with him said "never mind the US " and proceeded to say that I had also encountered racism in other western countries, 

But I am glad we at least make you laugh , we do aim to entertain while we "robbe the natives of all their lands and rights" 

Now excuse me while I go was mu KKK robes.