2023 Trip Report for Retirement Extension via Thai Bank Deposit at BKK CW

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

39 minutes ago, Hamus Yaigh said:

A good report, but an old hand like yourself seriously was concerned about this?!

Solely because I have a fundamental distrust of the Thai banking system, and have always done my best to avoid keeping anything more than the absolute minimum amount of funds in it... That currently is a not insignificant 800,000b.

 

That's why I'm concerned about the potential increase... But beyond my personal issue, it's hard not to recognize that a significant increase in the bank deposit requirement for retirement extensions could pose a very significant hardship to a lot of expats here who don't have much in the way of savings.

 

That kind of hardship would be ameliorated some were the government to combine any increase with a grandfathering provision for those who are already living here... But the way Big Joke was talking about his plan, it didn't sound like that was the way he was thinking.

 

It sounded like he is looking to get his proposed increase to be a means to (in his mind) root out the "undesirable" criminal elements in Thailand who are here are retirement extensions/visas....stemming out of the motorcycle gang murder.

 

But somehow, he appears to be operating on the foolhardy presumption that somehow criminal activity by older folks here (like with the motorcycle gang members) has some correlation to retirees with limited financials, which is simply plain stupid, IMHO.

 

[Red Phoenix]

Re the 5-hour wait for the Re-Entry Permit.

I agree that it is convenient to buy the Re-Entry Permit at same time when you are at Immigration and did receive your 1-year extension. 

But unless you foresee the possibility to exit Thailand by a land-border (the majority of which do not have a Re-Entry Permit desk), you can easily buy the Re-Entry Permit at Immigration stamp-out in the main Thai international airports. 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

9 minutes ago, Red Phoenix said:

you can easily buy the Re-Entry Permit at Immigration stamp-out in the main Thai international airports.

For my personal situation, I already addressed that option raised by another poster earlier in the thread.

 

Typically, my outbound flights tend to leave around midnight or later, and I've never been sure that the Immigration desk at Suvarnabhumi for reentry permits is going to be reliably staffed late into the evenings.

 

If anyone has any first hand knowledge on that, I'd certainly like to hear it.

 

But more generally, I don't like leaving something so critical as a valid reentry permit to be a last-minute deal on the verge of a flight out.

 

Something goes wrong, the Immigration folks have taken a powder that night, and my annual retirement extension is VOIDED upon my return to Thailand, and I have to start all over again...

 

 

Edited August 26, 2023 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Hamus Yaigh]

2 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

which is simply plain stupid, IMHO.

Exactly my point, so I would not be rushing to CW to do my extension this year on the off chance as in the op. Any changes to financials won't happen for years and years to come I expect and is not even something I would even worry about. Very useful report btw, I like reading them each year as you seem to go about 6 weeks before me!

[scottiejohn]

17 minutes ago, Hamus Yaigh said:

Any changes to financials won't happen for years and years to come I expect and is not even something I would even worry about.

And if it does happen why would they not "Grandfather" the changes the same as they did last time?

 

[lamyai3]

On 8/24/2023 at 8:20 PM, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

But the reentry permit process was an entirely different story, where I started out at 10:10 a.m. with literally 100 people in queue ahead of my number (I was #171 and they were at about #70 when I sat down to wait), and didn't get my stamped passport back until 3 p.m. (almost FIVE hours after starting that process), at which point there were still 130 more people waiting to get their passports back from the reentry permit area.

Had a similar experience there transferring pp stamps and then getting a re-entry permit earlier in the month. Only one person waiting in L section, quick and efficient, but 60 people ahead of me in the re-entry permit queue, took the whole rest of the afternoon.

[John Drake]

36 minutes ago, scottiejohn said:

And if it does happen why would they not "Grandfather" the changes the same as they did last time?

 

Plus it might be that the grandfathering doesn't go back so far. A lot of people left Thailand during Covid and either were unable to return and extend their visas or simply opted out of doing so. All Immigration needs to do to trim away a lot of people on current extensions and their financial requirements is to make "grandfathering" go back to right before Covid in late 2019. Anyone not on consecutive extensions since 2019 would not be included.

Edited August 26, 2023 by John Drake

[BritTim]

2 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Typically, my outbound flights tend to leave around midnight or later, and I've never been sure that the Immigration desk at Suvarnabhumi for reentry permits is going to be reliably staffed late into the evenings.

 

If anyone has any first hand knowledge on that, I'd certainly like to hear it.

At Suvarnabhumi, it is 100% certain that both the overstay desk and the re-entry permit desk are staffed 24 hours. Should no one be on the desk when you arrive (highly unlikely) just behind the desk on the left is the room where the re-entry permits are actually done. Between that room and the desk there are usually about three officials on duty.

 

The only issue that has ever arisen with re-entry permits at the airport is that the camera machine they use has been known to break. Should that happen, it is important that you have a suitable photo with you (of the kind usually needed when you apply for the re-entry permit at an immigration office). Also, of course, make sure you have the 1,200 baht (1,000 baht if you already have a completed TM8 form with photo)

[TaoNow]

I'll add to a few others in this useful thread. 

 

In April this year, I used the appointment system (for Immo/CW) since I have to go to a branch of the SCB bank to get my (fixed) account updated on the day (plus the annual statement, etc.).   (You cannot up-date a SCB fixed account at their ATM machines -- must be a counter action.)

 

So, I got to Immo well ahead of my 10:30  appointment.  I checked to see if the lady at Desk 32 was there and not busy with another expat, and asked her (humbly) if I could be served.  She was very efficient without speaking a word.  So, that was done pronto, and I got my stamped extension about 30 minutes later (about 11 a.m.)

 

Then, I went to the queue counter for the re-entry permit stamp ticket and was astounded to see a queue # of 283.  They were only up to 90 or so at that time.

 

However, with no urgent need to do the re-entry thing (and, like TGJ, not wanting to chance the airport at midnight) I said 'screw it -- I'll come again in a few days. '

 

Which I did, and got out of there with the re-entry stamp before 9 a.m. 

 

On the other, more irksome issue of raising the 800K baht bar,...after having lived here for 50 years, I would place my bet on our being grandfathered in. 

 

My rationale is as follows:

 

(1) Most "legitimate" retirees in Thailand have sustained the flushing out of the ex-pats (mostly USA, UK, Australia, some Danes) who did not meet the financial requirements of the retirement extension and could not get letters from their embassies guaranteeing that they had the financial means (i.e., 65K baht/month).  So, that has removed the claim of ne'er-do-wells mooching off the retirement extension scheme.

 

(2) If Immo was bothered by the bent agents who allow ex-pats without the financials to cop a retirement extension, that is their internal problem -- not ours.

 

(3) Regarding the bike gangs, I cannot think of another instance where the Thai government took a broad-brush approach to tar all ex-pats for the sins of a minority.  But, that could be my naive wishful thinking! 

 

(4) Finally, I have trusted the majority of my Thai counterparts in the government for 50 years, and been treated fairly overall.   I urge those of you who read this to do the same, and give them the benefit of the doubt.

 

 

[OJAS]

2 hours ago, scottiejohn said:

And if it does happen why would they not "Grandfather" the changes the same as they did last time?

 

I personally would not bank on this still being the case these days. Historic OA visa holders seeking fresh retirement extensions were, generally speaking, not exempted from the mandatory health insurance requirements introduced 4 years ago through any "grandfathering" (except in the case of those obtaining their retirement extensions at the Phuket Immigration Office).

 

Edited August 26, 2023 by OJAS

[OJAS]

In response to Mr Confused, I would merely say that my preceding post sounds crystal clear to me!

Edited August 26, 2023 by OJAS

[DrJack54]

12 minutes ago, OJAS said:

In response to Mr Confused, I would merely say that my preceding post sounds crystal clear to me!

Your post was crystal ....

Just ignore the silly emoji 

[lamyai3]

1 hour ago, John Drake said:

Plus it might be that the grandfathering doesn't go back so far. A lot of people left Thailand during Covid and either were unable to return and extend their visas or simply opted out of doing so. All Immigration needs to do to trim away a lot of people on current extensions and their financial requirements is to make "grandfathering" go back to right before Covid in late 2019. Anyone not on consecutive extensions since 2019 would not be included.

When the amounts were raised in 2003, the grandfathering was for those who'd been on extensions since 1998.

[rwilem]

On 8/25/2023 at 1:47 PM, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Thanks for that caution re the TM6s, Jim. Very useful to know...  And I hadn't known before that the TM6 would be asked for as part of the LTR visa application process!

 

I think the IOs at BKK CW were telling me that THEY wouldn't need or require the TM6s for extension purposes anymore and thus I could discard mine.

 

But of course, THEM not needing them anymore is NOT the same as NO one needing or wanting them anymore, as your experience shows....

 

I heard BKK CW's advice re TM6s, as I recounted above. But when I got home last night, I left the now 4 year old, outdated TM6 (no longer my most recent air arrival) stapled in my passport... figuring, better safe than sorry.... And with these things and Thailand, you just never know -- as your post above highlights!

 

Absolutely, let sleeping TM-6s lie, right where they are. I'll keep it stapled in the passport, just fine and dandy, and handy for who knows whatever.

 

Thanks for your report, and the in-one-place links to the four extra documents!

Edited August 26, 2023 by rwilem

[rwilem]

On 8/25/2023 at 4:53 PM, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

And as a consequence, each year, I'm unable do my required bank book update on the day of my Immigration visit until AFTER the BKK CW Krungsri branch opens at 8:30 am, which happens to be the same time the BKK CW Immigration office begins allowing in people from their long queue.

Just a thought, here. The last two extensions I've updated the bankbook at a bank branch next to the BTS station in town from where I start the journey out to CW.  It's a good working MO for me. At the complex I just make a beeline to the copy shops and get my final copies made, then head over to Immigration. Skip having to do anything with the bank branch out there. (I get the the account balance letter the day before at a brach in town.)

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

16 hours ago, rwilem said:

Just a thought, here. The last two extensions I've updated the bankbook at a bank branch next to the BTS station in town from where I start the journey out to CW.  It's a good working MO for me. At the complex I just make a beeline to the copy shops and get my final copies made, then head over to Immigration. Skip having to do anything with the bank branch out there. (I get the the account balance letter the day before at a brach in town.)

If you read my earlier comments on this, you'd have seen that the bank book update machine problem with Krungsri isn't limited to just the branch in the basement of BKK CW.... The same failure also occurs at other Krungsri branches, including my home account branch in Central BKK.

 

The same failure has been reported here previously by other Krungsri users as well at other locations. It's some problem with some portion of their machines, not with that one particular location.

 

Edited August 27, 2023 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

20 hours ago, Hamus Yaigh said:

Any changes to financials won't happen for years and years to come I expect

I'll certainly be happy if that ends up being the result... But, if I were a betting man, I'd bet your prediction above will end up being wrong in this instance.

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

19 hours ago, John Drake said:

Plus it might be that the grandfathering doesn't go back so far.

That's certainly a possibility... The other thing, IMHO, that people need to consider regarding Big Joke's wrongheaded plan is what was his stated purpose for wanting to raise the financial requirements for retirement visas/extensions?

 

His stated purpose was to help rid Thailand of undesirable criminals staying here on retirement visas/extensions, which he somehow equates to retirees here on limited financials, which again, I think is a total non-sequitur.

 

And although I don't see any real connection between the two things, it wouldn't make sense from HIS perspective to start grandfathering a lot of folks, because he'd be grandfathering the low-finance "criminals" and undesirables he wants to boot out.

 

In his mind, apparently, being a wealthy expat or having lots of money in the bank is somehow a sign that you're a good, law-abiding citizen -- which IMHO, is total nonsense.

 

 

Edited August 27, 2023 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

19 hours ago, TaoNow said:

 I urge those of you who read this to do the same, and give them the benefit of the doubt.

Re retirement extension financials, hope you're right! We shall see....

 

Edited August 27, 2023 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

19 hours ago, TaoNow said:

Then, I went to the queue counter for the re-entry permit stamp ticket and was astounded to see a queue # of 283.  They were only up to 90 or so at that time.

 

However, with no urgent need to do the re-entry thing (and, like TGJ, not wanting to chance the airport at midnight) I said 'screw it -- I'll come again in a few days. '

 

Which I did, and got out of there with the re-entry stamp before 9 a.m. 

That's SO strange!  I have no idea what's going on there at BKK CW with the reentry permit section.

 

On the day I was there (which intentionally was a Thursday, which you wouldn't expect to be especially busy), there of course were tons of people waiting in that section... But it didn't look like they were all part of some large group or groups that happened to inflate the crowds that particular day.

 

The next time I have to go there next year, I'll definitely plan on making an online appointment for the reentry permit part, which seems absurd...

 

Because, during the depths of the COVID years, for example, things got so quiet there that they did away with the queue system in the C2 reentry permit section... And for like a two year period there,  you could just walk up and hand-in your paperwork, and get your passport back in 5-10 minutes... No queue ticket required. Now, not any more.

 

 

 

Edited August 27, 2023 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Just as an added tidbit....

 

As I mentioned in my OP, my Thai wife and the IO lady officer handling my retirement extension application end up having quite a friendly chat, and at one point the IO asked my wife how many years we'd been married...

 

So, I took that comment and our answer to ask the IO a related question -- "So, if we ever wanted to, we could change to a marriage extension, right?" And of course, the IO answered yes, we could....

 

But, then she went on to say further, we'd really be better off staying with the retirement extension. Easier to process, she said, and you don't have to come back for a second, month later visit to BKK CW as we would with a marriage extension.

 

So I decided to ask her further, "So if we ever did a marriage extension here in Bangkok, would we still have to have a home visit from some Immigration officers to check that the wife and I are in fact living together as a couple." And the IO replied, yes, we'd still have to do a home inspection, even in BKK.

 

Edited August 27, 2023 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Pib]

2 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

But, then she went on to say further, we'd really be better off staying with the retirement extension. Easier 

So I decided to ask her further, "So if we ever did a marriage extension here in Bangkok, would we still have to have a home visit from some Immigration officers to check that the wife and I are in fact living together as a couple." And the IO replied, yes, we'd still have to do a home inspection, even in BKK.

 

When I switched from an OA retirement extension to a marriage extension in mid 2020 due to the OA medical insurance requirement...and then renewed the marriage extension two more times in 2021 and 2022 before switching to a LTR visa I never had  home visit from CW immigration.

 

Since that period included the COVID pandemic maybe CW cut way back on home visits.   Or maybe because I had 11 retirement extensions under my belt at the same address when switching to the marriage extension had an impact....or maybe because the wife and I have been married for decades was the reason....don't know.  I just know I've never had a home visit from CW on my retirement or marriage extensions.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 hour ago, Pib said:

When I switched from an OA retirement extension to a marriage extension in mid 2020 due to the OA medical insurance requirement...and then renewed the marriage extension two more times in 2021 and 2022 before switching to a LTR visa I never had  home visit from CW immigration.

Thanks Pib... It's been my impression also that people in BKK who are doing renewed marriage extensions each year don't typically draw new home inspections each time, or at least, haven't in recent years...

 

Of course, in our conversation at BKK CW, we were in effect talking prospectively about what would be my first / new marriage extension. So it's possible that might draw different treatment from them than renewals... Or not.... ????

 

Mainly, I was just curious to hear what she'd say in answer to the question. PS - I'm not planning on converting to a marriage extension.

 

[John Drake]

22 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Thanks Pib... It's been my impression also that people in BKK who are doing renewed marriage extensions each year don't typically draw new home inspections each time, or at least, haven't in recent years...

 

Of course, in our conversation at BKK CW, we were in effect talking prospectively about what would be my first / new marriage extension. So it's possible that might draw different treatment from them than renewals... Or not.... ????

 

Mainly, I was just curious to hear what she'd say in answer to the question. PS - I'm not planning on converting to a marriage extension.

 

I thought about this. But what if your wife happens to do work that requires her to be out of the country frequently? Do marriage extensions require you to be prepared for visits on a day's/week's or whatever notice? 

[Pib]

23 minutes ago, John Drake said:

I thought about this. But what if your wife happens to do work that requires her to be out of the country frequently? Do marriage extensions require you to be prepared for visits on a day's/week's or whatever notice? 

Yes...you need to be available if at all possible.  Typically they don't give much advance notice based on posts I've read.  If not available when they call then I guess you need to negotiate a different day if they absolutely want to see you and/or the wife at your home and maybe talk to a few neighbors to confirm you really live there.  Immigration realizes people work and may be far away when (if) immigration wants to do a home visit.

Edited August 28, 2023 by Pib

[John Drake]

20 minutes ago, Pib said:

Yes...you need to be available if at all possible.  Typically they don't give much advance notice based on posts I've read.  If not available when they call then I guess you need to negotiate a different day if they absolutely want to see you and/or the wife at your home and maybe talk to a few neighbors to confirm you really live there.  Immigration realizes people work and may be far away when (if) immigration wants to do a home visit.

Then what if both husband and wife are out of the country for an extended period? This is beginning to look to me like a marriage extension locks you down in one place.

[Pib]

42 minutes ago, John Drake said:

Then what if both husband and wife are out of the country for an extended period? This is beginning to look to me like a marriage extension locks you down in one place.

It can have an impact especially during the approx 30 days "under consideration" period where at the end of that approx 30 days you are to go back to immigration to get the final approval stamp that gives the 1 year extension.  

 

Heck, even if you are on a retirement extension you need to be in county 30 to 45 days before it expires to submit for renewal.   

 

Yes, whether a retirement or marriage extension there are time frames you need to be in country...and those times are say plus or minus 30-45 days of the annual renewal.   But a marriage extension has much lower income requirements....only Bt400K two months before the application date and it should stay at Bt400K until you get the final approval which means maintaining Bt400K for around 3 months....outside of those 3 months you can take the balance to zero if desired.   That's sure a lot less than a retirement extension Bt800K for 5 months (2 before and 3 months after the approval and then if desired dropping to no less than Bt400K of 7 months...but being sure to top back up to Bt800K 2 months before applying for renewal.  Seems most people just leave it at Bt800K or above to avoid messing up on the deposit timing.

 

And if using the monthly income method it's Bt40K/month vs the Bt65K/month for a retirement extension.

 

And let's not forget a marriage extension does not require medical insurance even if your underlying visa is a OA visa...that can be a biggie for many people who have a OA visa especially when the Thai insurance cost "A LOT" due to age and actually provides little coverage due to high deductible and uncovered preconditions.

 

Yeap, there are times you need to be in-country each year to allow for extension processing time.

 

[lopburi3]

27 minutes ago, Pib said:

Heck, even if you are on a retirement extension you need to be in county 30 to 45 days before it expires to submit for renewal. 

There is no such requirement - you can submit the last day if you want to take the chance - it just gives you more time to get things in order if something missing.

[Pib]

24 minutes ago, lopburi3 said:

There is no such requirement - you can submit the last day if you want to take the chance - it just gives you more time to get things in order if something missing.

Well, what I meant was being in country before the extension expires as you can renew up to 30 to 45 days early depending on the immigration. office.

Edited August 28, 2023 by Pib

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

59 minutes ago, Pib said:

It can have an impact especially during the approx 30 days "under consideration" period where at the end of that approx 30 days you are to go back to immigration to get the final approval stamp that gives the 1 year extension.  

Pib... I'm doing this from memory of info here, never having had a Thai marriage extension.

 

But in your example, where the farang is going back for the 2nd visit to Immigration a month after originally applying to pick up his stamped passport, do BOTH the Thai wife and the farang husband have to be there.... or.... the farang husband can go alone for the 2nd visit?

 

...regarding @John Drake's questions above.

 

 

Edited August 28, 2023 by TallGuyJohninBKK