The difficulty of avoiding sugar in Thailand.

[Kwaibill]

On 9/9/2023 at 3:49 PM, BritManToo said:

I make yogurt all the time, ZERO sugar required.

I have found a little sugar needed for some non-dairy yogurt making. Best result for me is low-fat cow’s milk with a teaspoon of added corn flour or such before heating. Have thought of but not tried yet a little gelatin. Only because the low fat milk comes out “ looser” than I prefer, though I suppose I could “Greek” it by straining. Easier to mix a little thickener in ahead.

Edited September 10, 2023 by Kwaibill

[GammaGlobulin]

On 9/8/2023 at 9:44 AM, cooked said:

On 9/8/2023 at 9:40 AM, KhunLA said:

I don't think sugar is the demon ingredient it's made out to be.  Saying that, agree, sugar as an ingredient is way OTT at times here, and worldwide.

Expand  

Sugar is a lot worse than it's made out to be.

Any evidence for your statement? 

 

In what ways do you disagree with the evidence provided in Robert Lustig's videos? 

 

 

 

Edited September 10, 2023 by GammaGlobulin

[KhunLA]

Final thoughts ...

... Sugar ... the Empty Calorie food ... ????

And that would be the white sugar.  Other's listed earlier, have some nutritional value.  Not much, but some.

 

Don't know how much sugar y'all are eating, and in comparison, as I stated, may be healthier per gram, as I don't think people eat that much, gr for gr, than many other foods; high fat/bad cholesterol, alcoho/carbs that turn into sugar when digested.

 

That burger is 200gr, alone, add bread & unhealthy sauce, yea.  Do you put 200gr / 1 cup, of sugar on or in anything.  That's enough sugar to make a tray of brownies, and do you plan on eating the whole tray in one sitting ?

 

So put that sugar in prospective to all the other crap you eat.  33gr of sugar in 12 fl oz/368gr of Cola.  You using that for your Rum & Coke.

 

I put 5 gr in my cup of coffee (200-250ml), yes, empty calories, but, all of 20 calories, for those keeping score.   Same as every other carb, and it provides energy, your body needs.  I must burn most of it off, as I've been the same weight for year.

 

"Sugar, like all carbohydrates, contains food energy. Every gram of carbohydrate has about 4 calories. One teaspoon of sugar has about 5 grams of carbohydrate, and 20 calories. One tablespoon of sugar has about 15 grams of carbohydrate, and 60 calories."

 

If your washing down your large slice of apple pie or brownie, both al a mode of course, with vanilla ice cream, with a sugar drink, everyday, sitting on the sofa, on AN everyday, then yes.  Your sugar intake for the day, may start to be an issue ????

 

Especially if having a whiskey and or a few beers at & after sunset, or sunrise, or noon with lunch.  Getting that KFC, Big Mac or Whopper delivered to your LPOS butt, 3-4-5 nights a week.  Get your full English in on the weekend, and Sunday Roast.  Washed down with some more carbs.

 

Don't forget that bag of crisp or tube of Pringle you're munchin on while watching that movie or footy of TV.  Washed down with another beer/carb drink, whether containing sugar or not, as it's converted to sugar, once in your body.

 

You can cut that pastry al a mode out of your diet, (my demon food) and you're still going to end up being a fat unhealthy fck.

 

You are what you eat, but first you have to know what you're eating.  You're 50-60-70 yrs old, do you really need to be told what's healthy at this stage in your life.

 

Is your chest still larger than your waist ?  Can you run 100 meters, and stop huffing & puffing within 30 seconds when you finish ?  Do take a tuk tuk, bolt, grab, scooter taxi, baht bus or self drive if the walk is 500 meters, and all of 1 km round trip to the 7-11 or bar ?

 

Have a pleasant evening ... ????

Edited September 10, 2023 by KhunLA

[scubascuba3]

42 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Final thoughts ...

... Sugar ... the Empty Calorie food ... ????

And that would be the white sugar.  Other's listed earlier, have some nutritional value.  Not much, but some.

 

Don't know how much sugar y'all are eating, and in comparison, as I stated, may be healthier per gram, as I don't think people eat that much, gr for gr, than many other foods; high fat/bad cholesterol, alcoho/carbs that turn into sugar when digested.

 

That burger is 200gr, alone, add bread & unhealthy sauce, yea.  Do you put 200gr / 1 cup, of sugar on or in anything.  That's enough sugar to make a tray of brownies, and do you plan on eating the whole tray in one sitting ?

 

So put that sugar in prospective to all the other crap you eat.  33gr of sugar in 12 fl oz/368gr of Cola.  You using that for your Rum & Coke.

 

I put 5 gr in my cup of coffee (200-250ml), yes, empty calories, but, all of 20 calories, for those keeping score.   Same as every other carb, and it provides energy, your body needs.  I must burn most of it off, as I've been the same weight for year.

 

"Sugar, like all carbohydrates, contains food energy. Every gram of carbohydrate has about 4 calories. One teaspoon of sugar has about 5 grams of carbohydrate, and 20 calories. One tablespoon of sugar has about 15 grams of carbohydrate, and 60 calories."

 

If your washing down your large slice of apple pie or brownie, both al a mode of course, with vanilla ice cream, with a sugar drink, everyday, sitting on the sofa, on AN everyday, then yes.  Your sugar intake for the day, may start to be an issue ????

 

Especially if having a whiskey and or a few beers at & after sunset, or sunrise, or noon with lunch.  Getting that KFC, Big Mac or Whopper delivered to your LPOS butt, 3-4-5 nights a week.  Get your full English in on the weekend, and Sunday Roast.  Washed down with some more carbs.

 

Don't forget that bag of crisp or tube of Pringle you're munchin on while watching that movie or footy of TV.  Washed down with another beer/carb drink, whether containing sugar or not, as it's converted to sugar, once in your body.

 

You can cut that pastry al a mode out of your diet, (my demon food) and you're still going to end up being a fat unhealthy fck.

 

You are what you eat, but first you have to know what you're eating.  You're 50-60-70 yrs old, do you really need to be told what's healthy at this stage in your life.

 

Is your chest still larger than your waist ?  Can you run 100 meters, and stop huffing & puffing within 30 seconds when you finish ?  Do take a tuk tuk, bolt, grab, scooter taxi, baht bus or self drive if the walk is 500 meters, and all of 1 km round trip to the 7-11 or bar ?

 

Have a pleasant evening ... ????

i agree with all that and I'm fit and slim like yourself by the sound of it. I add sugar to coffee, tea, smoothies, porridge. When out cycling add extra sugar to water bottle, helps to prevent a sugar low after a lot of exercise.  A lot of unhealthy overweight people out there who are carb and sugar phobic, shame really

[Felton Jarvis]

5 hours ago, Sticky Rice Balls said:

aka kettle korn

Absolutely disgusting. I got some “Kettle Korn” by accident at a THAI theater and gave it away. No one but the insane puts sugar on popcorn.

[fredwiggy]

13 minutes ago, Felton Jarvis said:

Absolutely disgusting. I got some “Kettle Korn” by accident at a THAI theater and gave it away. No one but the insane puts sugar on popcorn.

Guess you never tried Crackerjack

[save the frogs]

22 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

Guess you never tried Crackerjack

some people in this thread got their degrees from a Cracker Jack box. 

 

[Felton Jarvis]

24 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

Guess you never tried Crackerjack

I DID…..but I was eight years old. Garbage food.

[Adumbration]

I don't drink, but I have always enjoyed my candy and cakes and cups of tea with milk and sugar.

 

About a month ago I banned all simple carbs from my diet.

 

No sugar

No white rice

No bread

etc...

 

I feel much much better for taking action, but the sad truth is that I now prepare all of my meals at home.

[Sticky Rice Balls]

19 hours ago, Felton Jarvis said:

Absolutely disgusting. I got some “Kettle Korn” by accident at a THAI theater and gave it away. No one but the insane puts sugar on popcorn.

crazy like a fox!

[Felton Jarvis]

22 hours ago, Adumbration said:

I don't drink, but I have always enjoyed my candy and cakes and cups of tea with milk and sugar.

 

About a month ago I banned all simple carbs from my diet.

 

No sugar

No white rice

No bread

etc...

 

I feel much much better for taking action, but the sad truth is that I now prepare all of my meals at home.

I use stevia to sweeten tea. In coffee, I use only milk, no sweetener.

[moogradod]

On 9/10/2023 at 2:56 PM, fredwiggy said:

You're right, as he had both, as far as I know,  starting with type 1. His diet choices and lack of exercise had type 2 develop. He mentioned double diabetes once, as that is both. He didn't like to talk much about it, and his wife filled me in after he passed a little.

Type 1 and Type 2 are different ailments only similar to the effect that not enough insulin is produced. Type 1 produces absolutely no insulin at all which must be injected in any case. Type 1 cannot mutate into type 2 whereas type 2 can be influenced by food, lifestyle etc to stimulate the still existent insulin production.. I am diabetic type 2 since over 30 years.

Edited September 12, 2023 by moogradod

[sharksy]

On 9/8/2023 at 4:05 AM, still kicking said:

My nephew sprinkles salt on strawberries.

Fish sauce even better

[KhunLA]

Another informative, on topic, and why some sugars should definitely be avoided, or at best, in moderation.  

 

And that white sugar with equal parts fructose/glucose, may be a healthier choice, again in moderation, and in amounts you'll burn off, or it will turn to fat, and you will have a whole new problem.

 

@6:10 of vid, gets past all the science & history, breaks down the important part, IMHO.  Though never hurts to watch the whole vid, especially if having kids with asthma.  

 

 

Edited September 12, 2023 by KhunLA

[scubascuba3]

19 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Another informative, on topic, and why some sugars should definitely be avoided, or at best, in moderation.  

 

And that white sugar with equal parts fructose/glucose, may be a healthier choice, again in moderation, and in amounts you'll burn off, or it will turn to fat, and you will have a whole new problem.

 

@6:10 of vid, gets past all the science & history, breaks down the important part, IMHO.  Though never hurts to watch the whole vid, especially if having kids with asthma.  

 

 

i avoid high fructose syrup, all those smoothies in coffee shops use it, at home i add white sugar instead

[Toolong]

Can empathasize with your frustration & concern, Felton.

Don't know you, of course....nor your age or precisely how serious (as someone who's pre-diabetic) your particular need to pay attention to diet & so on may be.

 

So won't ramble on. But will say, as someone who lived through some nasty heart-attack business nearly 20 years ago and who also showed signs of being worryingly pre-diabetic, my experience forced me to make some unavoidable choices. 

One was diet of course. I have cooked my own grub for so long now (in Thailand btw) that it is by no means the hassle it was once. In fact, I now love it

 But my point: Noticeably better health was my reward. 

 

Please, whatever anyone's saying here about sugar not being the villain.....no, it is. It really is. Even so-called natural sugars in fruits, like mangoes, bananas etc. Avoid if you are able to. (Most people would think that to be insane nonsense, I know, but following accepted dietary 'norms' can get you into trouble if you're not careful & informed.)

 

Along with bad fats, especially seed oils and......in Thailand, reused & deep-fried seed oils, 2,3 maybe 4+ times....run a mile.

 

Something I've found to be HUGELY beneficial is fasting. Perhaps more than anything else, this is the biggie.....for me anyway. I eat once a day. My liver is never overloaded with way too much carb & sugar stuff. What's there and converted to glucose is used up during the fasting period, not accumulated in a toxic build-up that does the damage. Used to be 3 meal a day person, heavy on the carbs. I still can't do without carbs nor want to, so enjoy one meal a day including carbs. 

 

Anyway, good luck. 

 

 

[fredwiggy]

45 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

i avoid high fructose syrup, all those smoothies in coffee shops use it, at home i add white sugar instead

They are basically the same

[scubascuba3]

8 hours ago, fredwiggy said:

They are basically the same

basically not the same

[save the frogs]

sugar alternatives:

- stevia

- monk fruit powder

- erythritrol

- xylitol (tastes almost exactly like sugar)

 

all more expensive than sugar. 

 

you can find a lot of good recipes online of people baking with erythritrol ... 

 

 

 

[fredwiggy]

2 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

basically not the same

Yes they are. The only difference, besides one having water, is in the binding of molecules in sugar. Been into this for 50 years, and knew this since the beginning. This is why I've stayed lean all these years. I know what to eat and what not to............https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/high-fructose-corn-syrup-vs-sugar#regular-sugar

[scubascuba3]

31 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

Yes they are. The only difference, besides one having water, is in the binding of molecules in sugar. Been into this for 50 years, and knew this since the beginning. This is why I've stayed lean all these years. I know what to eat and what not to............https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/high-fructose-corn-syrup-vs-sugar#regular-sugar

Does the video above not tell you? i was watching a Georgi Dinkov video recently, new studies available

[fredwiggy]

33 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

Does the video above not tell you? i was watching a Georgi Dinkov video recently, new studies available

I have no need to look at anything besides what I already have known. I'm not closed minded, but this has been done many times before, and the facts are there.  Studies have been done about sugar for years. Table, refined, corn syrup, brown, all of them, are empty calories and should be eaten sparingly, and in the case of having diabetes, not at all. There are other sweeteners that don't cause problems.

Edited September 13, 2023 by fredwiggy

[cooked]

13 hours ago, fredwiggy said:

They are basically the same

Basically, no they certainly aren't the same.

[fredwiggy]

7 minutes ago, cooked said:

Basically, no they certainly aren't the same.

Yes, they are. Look up links, like the one I provided, on reputable sites, instead of going by what one person might have told you, who wasn't in the game. They aren't exactly the same of course, but the main thing here is that the body breaks them down the same way.

Edited September 13, 2023 by fredwiggy

[cooked]

Just now, fredwiggy said:

Yes, they are. Look up links, like the one I provided, on reputable sites, instead of going by what one person might have told you, who wasn't in the game.

I beg your pardon? Healthline will give you results stating anything you want if you care to look. Fructose is a part of sugar and does harm in one way (most important of which, for some people, is that it feeds cancer cells. It also negatively affects mitochondrial activity). Sugar contains fructose AND glucose. Glucose, if present in more quantities than can immediately be used for energy, rapidly go to increasing the size of the adipose fat tissues. You get fat, which causes a host of other metabolic problems. 

I don't go by what somebody in a bar told me, thanks, I actually go to and read the scientific reports themselves, and have become quite good at working out which ones have been sponsored by processed food (sugar) corporations. 

Finding out that they have been lied to all their lives quite upsets some people and they turn their ire towards the messenger. Try: https://usrtk.org/ultra-processed-foods/academy-of-nutrition-and-dietetics-corporate-capture-of-the-nutrition-profession/

 

[fredwiggy]

1 minute ago, cooked said:

I beg your pardon? Healthline will give you results stating anything you want if you care to look. Fructose is a part of sugar and does harm in one way (most important of which, for some people, is that it feeds cancer cells. It also negatively affects mitochondrial activity). Sugar contains fructose AND glucose. Glucose, if present in more quantities than can immediately be used for energy, rapidly go to increasing the size of the adipose fat tissues. You get fat, which causes a host of other metabolic problems. 

I don't go by what somebody in a bar told me, thanks, I actually go to and read the scientific reports themselves, and have become quite good at working out which ones have been sponsored by processed food (sugar) corporations. 

Finding out that they have been lied to all their lives quite upsets some people and they turn their ire towards the messenger. Try: https://usrtk.org/ultra-processed-foods/academy-of-nutrition-and-dietetics-corporate-capture-of-the-nutrition-profession/

 

I know how sugars break down in the body. I stated basically the same for a reason. Sugar has many various forms. Grains have sugar, but refined, meaning white, brown, corn syrup etc all should be voided as much as possible, and entirely by those who have diabetes. This is what this post is about. I've been into this for over 50 years, and have read most of what is out about it. Some of course post things just to sell, the main reason sugar is put in food because companies know it's addictive. All sugar if not burned off quickly, will be stored as fat, and if you keep eating too much sugar, your body will use that as a source of fuel and not stored fat. I didn't mean you were going by what others have told you. It was a general statement, because a lot do.

[KhunLA]

1 minute ago, fredwiggy said:

I know how sugars break down in the body.

 

13 hours ago, fredwiggy said:

They are basically the same

Apparently you don't, if you think they are the same.

[fredwiggy]

14 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

 

Apparently you don't, if you think they are the same.

I said BASICALLY, meaning how the body breaks them down. Fact,not a guess. Sugar, meaning refined, table, whatever, is not good for a body. Small amounts here and there , aren't going to hurt. Large amounts, meaning what people add, PLUS what they get from all food that contains sugar, and those that have hidden amounts, WILL hurt a body eventually. Please try not to assume what I do or don't know.I can look up links as easy as anyone else. Difference being, I've been into nutrition and working out, what to eat and what not to, for over 50 years. You think I don't understand what goes on nutrition wise? Anything you can read, I did all along those 50 years. Some is bu**<deleted>,meaning opinions, and a lot is studies. I never said they chemically are the same. they are close, and break down about the same. You can believe sugar is okay for you. I prefer to do what I've always done, and maintain low bodyfat, low resting pulse and blood pressure, and low cholesterol, for all my life. How? By reading all I can about what food does and doesn't do. You can quote all you want and post links, many of which are opinions, and it doesn't matter. The post is about difficulty in avoiding sugar here. It is hard, because, not only here but everywhere else, companies add sugar and salt to most everything, because people aren't all reading what happens with sugar in your body, don't care, or like it too much to change. Picking apart what others write and not fully understanding what is written doesn't work. Here's another for your sake...............https://kansasfarmfoodconnection.org/spotlights/which-is-better-sugar-or-high-fructose-corn-syrup

Edited September 13, 2023 by fredwiggy

[cooked]

On 9/13/2023 at 10:36 AM, fredwiggy said:

I said BASICALLY, meaning how the body breaks them down. Fact,not a guess. Sugar, meaning refined, table, whatever, is not good for a body. Small amounts here and there , aren't going to hurt. Large amounts, meaning what people add, PLUS what they get from all food that contains sugar, and those that have hidden amounts, WILL hurt a body eventually. Please try not to assume what I do or don't know.I can look up links as easy as anyone else. Difference being, I've been into nutrition and working out, what to eat and what not to, for over 50 years. You think I don't understand what goes on nutrition wise? Anything you can read, I did all along those 50 years. Some is bu**<deleted>,meaning opinions, and a lot is studies. I never said they chemically are the same. they are close, and break down about the same. You can believe sugar is okay for you. I prefer to do what I've always done, and maintain low bodyfat, low resting pulse and blood pressure, and low cholesterol, for all my life. How? By reading all I can about what food does and doesn't do. You can quote all you want and post links, many of which are opinions, and it doesn't matter. The post is about difficulty in avoiding sugar here. It is hard, because, not only here but everywhere else, companies add sugar and salt to most everything, because people aren't all reading what happens with sugar in your body, don't care, or like it too much to change. Picking apart what others write and not fully understanding what is written doesn't work. Here's another for your sake...............https://kansasfarmfoodconnection.org/spotlights/which-is-better-sugar-or-high-fructose-corn-syrup

Sigh, so you know it all and will never take a step back to examine arguments. This is easy: the aptly named SAD diet (Standard American Diet) recommends you get 43 - 50 % of your caloric needs from carbohydrates. Apart from the small part that will be fibre and pass on through without being digested, this will ALL be transformed into some form of sugar, which your liver and pancreas will work overtime to get out of your blood. If it doesn't get used immediately for energy it gets transformed into fat. To avoid this ( as diabetics do need to) many go on a Keto diet, which has great success in reversing (impossible) diabetes or at least reducing meds.. It keeps being attacked as a weight loss diet not much better than others, and therefore a fad diet, but it improves health enormously. This isn't a N+1 story: I lost 13 Kg, stopped taking meds for blood pressure and sugar, no more acid reflux, no more joint pains, run 35 - 50 K weekly, I'm 75 and ran a marathon last year. I was  wreck before I started Keto. Keto comprises 5 - 10% carbs (sugar) not 45% +. Plenty more stories like this, and none of them involve claims that sugar is healthy in certain forms. 

[fredwiggy]

1 hour ago, cooked said:

Sigh, so you know it all and will never take a step back to examine arguments. This is easy: the aptly named SAD diet (Standard American Diet) recommends you get 43 - 50 % of your caloric needs from carbohydrates. Apart from the small part that will be fibre and pass on through without being digested, this will ALL be transformed into some form of sugar, which your liver and pancreas will work overtime to get out of your blood. If it doesn't get used immediately for energy it gets transformed into fat. To avoid this ( as diabetics do need to) many go on a Keto diet, which has great success in reversing (impossible) diabetes or at least reducing meds.. It keeps being attacked as a weight loss diet not much better than others, and therefore a fad diet, but it improves health enormously. This isn't a N+1 story: I lost 13 Kg, stopped taking meds for blood pressure and sugar, no more acid reflux, no more joint pains, run 35 - 50 K weekly, I'm 75 and ran a marathon last year. I was  wreck before I started Keto. Keto comprises 5 - 10% carbs (sugar) not 45% +. Plenty more stories like this, and none of them involve claims that sugar is healthy in certain forms. 

No, I don't know it all. No one does, and always open to new information. I have been in the game for over 50 years, and pretty much know what works and what doesn't. A Keto diet is okay for awhile, as long as you do have carbs with it, along with fiber. I'll do it once in awhile but love pasta, rice, fruit, popcorn and bread too much to leave it out for long.At my age, 67, with never doing any aerobic activity besides Tae Kwando awhile ago, I have to watch my carbs also, because I've always had a slower metabolism. I could get ripped easy back before I turned 50. Now it's really hard, because of the carb like. I never really went by what the SAD said, I just ate healthy, and the carbs I ate, with pasta at least 3 times a week, and rice the other, were burned off. Now it's not that way, and I need to adjust. I always believed in getting enough fiber to be regular, 2 times a day normally, even though I do have problems with the gastro system at times. That could be coffee, chilis, which I rarely ate before, or the chicken here, which is left out and not wrapped and chilled like it is back home. I've always avoided sweets and sugar , knowing it's empty calories and not healthy in large amounts. I have joint pains because I used to squat up to 530 lbs and did reps with 400+. Didn't listen to the older trainers who warned me to stay away from such heavy weights. (I was always at around 175 lbs, so that was heavy on my frame anyway). I actually wish I could just eat mostly meat and fish, because I do love it, but it's hard to give up most of the carbs, at least for now.