Thai gov. to tax (remitted) income from abroad for tax residents starting 2024 - Part I

[JohnnyBD]

19 minutes ago, 4myr said:

From the FAQ of TRD case #1.

 

As I understand it, income remitted is only assessable income, in case both conditions apply:

 

[1] the income remitted was earned in a year that the person was tax resident

[2] at the time the money is remitted, the person is also tax resident

 

In case one of the 2 does not apply, that income remitted is not assessable income.

That's great news for me. I don't need to switch to a LTR visa . Thanks... Your report is greatly appreciated.

[gamb00ler]

53 minutes ago, 4myr said:

The simplest case to check for any person from the tax office is when [2] does not apply. I can also stay less than 180 days when I sell my stocks with profit [1],

I believe that you will only be subject to Thai tax on the capital gain since Dec. 31, 2023.... not the entirety of your gain.

[potless]

1 hour ago, 4myr said:

For example, on the day that I transfer money to Thailand, I need to keep a record of the euro-baht exchange rate of that day. [PS. I assume to convert a tax credit in euro to thai baht

Was the lady referring to Thai baht being remitted to Thailand or euros that are remitted to a foreign currency deposit account in Thailand. If the money is remitted in foreign currency, I believe that you need to make a note of the exchange rate ( TT rate ?)at the close of business on the day the funds are received. For example, 5,000 euros and a rate of 40 baht per euro would be 200,000 baht. that would be the relevant figure for tax calculations irrespective of the exchange rate when you actually convert the euros to baht, which may be at a later date. 

[Dogmatix]

5 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

I’ve grown tired of waking up to new abusive posts and PM’s each morning so I’ve decided to withdraw completely from the tax threads and the Simple Tax Guide. The fact is, the satisfaction derived from compiling the guide and helping members is far outweighed by faux challenges, aggravation and abuse. I’ve talked this through with Admin who has very generously proposed alternate solutions but I think mine is the better alternative.

 

By means of this post, I handover responsibility for making any future updates to the tax guide and answering questions, to members @stat @TroubleandGrumpy and @JimGant who appear to think they can do a better job and I feel certain will want to do all they can to help members.

 

I will not be reading PM’s again.

 

I wish you all well.

 

 

I always thought it was not OK to publicly discuss other members in the thread.

[Mike Lister]

14 minutes ago, Dogmatix said:

 

I always thought it was not OK to publicly discuss other members in the thread.

So what, it's OK for posters to mention my name and discuss me daily, post slurs and make degrading comments but I'm not allowed to mention their names of the posters now responsible for taking over my role and producing updates to the tax guide.....really!  Somehow I knew you might say something similar, just to show support.

[redwood1]

2 hours ago, 4myr said:

Here a short summary of the 2nd meeting at the tax office in Prachuap Khiri Khan. First I planned to go to the office in Hua Hin, however I found out, Hua Hin has a much smaller branch office.

This time the topic is "exemptions" as specified in the Double Tax Agreement between NL and Thailand. Based on hardcopies in Thai and English. Both documents were retrieved from the Thai RD office.

 

We made an appointment with a lawyer from the Legal dept of the tax office. He asked his colleagues to join, 2 colleagues from the operational department. His female boss and a junior colleague who were in the room also listened to the conversation.

 

Focus of the meeting is the interpretation of Article 23.5 "exemptions" of the NL-Thai DTA from 1975:

https://wetten-overheid-nl.translate.goog/BWBV0003872/1976-06-09?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=nl&_x_tr_pto=wapp

 

"Where a resident of Thailand [i.e. tax resident] derives benefits and income or owns assets which are subject to the provisions of Articles 6, 7, 10(7), 11(5), 12(4), 14(1) and (2), 15(1) and (3) paragraphs, 16 , paragraphs 2, 17, 19  and 22, paragraphs 1 and 2, of this Agreement may be taxed in the Netherlands, Thailand shall exempt such benefits and income or those assets from tax, but may, in calculating the tax on the other income or capital of that resident, apply the tax rate that would have applied if the exempt income or capital had not been exempt."

 

The wording "shall exempt"  is very clear to me, and means no tax in Thailand, even if NL does not apply tax, for the following revenue items, which apply to me:

 

1) art 14.1 - in case I sell my house located in NL with profit and I remit this money. Capital gains are not taxed in NL.

2) art 16.2 - fees as a director of my company, which is based only in NL. Does not have a branch in Thailand

3) art 19 - when I retire in a couple of years, the state pension I will receive from government funds. 

 

Well in the meeting, the tax lawyer did not express his opinion. But his colleague from the operational dept was very clear and vocal. That in the history of tax filing cases, she did not come across exemptions being applied. Only tax credits are allowed.

 

Well I told her politely that I disagree with her, as the English version of 23.5, which I downloaded from the TRD website is quite clear, and when a dispute arises, between NL and TH, the English language version will be leading.

 

I also told her that the DTA is also clear about tax credits, which should be regarded differently than exemptions, in the subsequent article 23.6:

 

"Thailand shall grant a reduction in the tax calculated in accordance ..."

 

In case I do not agree with her answer, I can send the local tax office a written letter in Thai. Then they can open a case to request for advice to the head office in Bangkok. The officer said she will look into the matter again, if there were exemptions in the past, of tax not being applied in above mentioned cases.

 

Unfortunately the lawyer in the room did not say anything different than repeat what his colleague has said. His female boss printed out a case of a Swedish guy who filed tax about capital gains on stocks, however this does not match my case. I understand that gains on stocks does not get exemptions, also according to NL Thai DTA, as it is not fixed to a country similar to a property or a company.

 

At the end she had a simple advice, which will save time for me and the tax office. In the situation that I need to transfer sums of money, make sure I stay less than 180 days in that year in Thailand.

 

I also had a question about record keeping, in case an audit will check my records as evidence. The officer said that the RD got a lot of questions on this matter. She said that the RD head office will come with a document which list all these record keeping requirements. She could not say when. For example, on the day that I transfer money to Thailand, I need to keep a record of the euro-baht exchange rate of that day. [PS. I assume to convert a tax credit in euro to thai baht] 

 

 

 

What I learned from reading this is it gives me a headache....

How people can sit in a office all day reading piles of pages of this legalese I will never know...

 

[rexpotter]

1 minute ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

And thereinlies the issue with 'playing' with TRD. They are very arbitrary and they have the authority to be very arbitrary - they have more arbitrary power than the Immigration Office (Police).  As I have said many many times, the taxation systems in the west (particularly Aust) are extremely definitive and 'officers' in those tax departments have vewry little arbitrary authority - and any decision they make has to be justified and proven upon appeal by any taxpayer (Tribunals and Courts). That is an extremely 'painful' process for the tax employees to undertake, especially if the decision goes against them - thus theiur reluctance to make a bad/incorrect decision.

 

However, in Thailand TRD 'officers' have far more arbitrary power than some people realise. Example - TRD can decide how much income tax a person must pay - based upon their house, car, lifestyle, bank accounts, ertc etc. Yes - that is how powerful they can be.  The point - avoid playing with TRD - only lodge a tax return if/when it is very clear that you have to - and get legal tax advice before doing that and get them to lodge it for you.  To appeal any decision in Thailand it is mandated that all documents presented must be only in Thai - all documents. 

 

IMO the 'advice' that all Expats must lodge a tax return (those with over 60K Baht) and that 'income' could be anything including a pension, and therefore you have to lodge a tax return and TRD will decide - is total and utter Thai apologist rubbish.  Besides the fact that 10s of millions of Thais do not lodge tax returns ever, it is patently clear TRD does not want tax returns that claim the money to be paid is zero and which requires them to analyse and study those returns. TRD does not have the resources to deal with just the Expats alone all suddenly lodging tax returns (400K?), let along all the itinerant workers (5 million?), or all the Thais who earn over 60K a year (30 million?).  Is TRD goign to send an advice to all Thai banks to report to them anyone who has more than 100K in their account?  1 million? 5 million? 10 million? Does anyone seriously think they will send an advice to the banks to report all foreigners accounts only and not Thais?  

No, retired here? Don't worry about it.

[Mike Lister]

1 minute ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

And thereinlies the issue with 'playing' with TRD. They are very arbitrary and they have the authority to be very arbitrary - they have more arbitrary power than the Immigration Office (Police).  As I have said many many times, the taxation systems in the west (particularly Aust) are extremely definitive and 'officers' in those tax departments have vewry little arbitrary authority - and any decision they make has to be justified and proven upon appeal by any taxpayer (Tribunals and Courts). That is an extremely 'painful' process for the tax employees to undertake, especially if the decision goes against them - thus theiur reluctance to make a bad/incorrect decision.

 

However, in Thailand TRD 'officers' have far more arbitrary power than some people realise. Example - TRD can decide how much income tax a person must pay - based upon their house, car, lifestyle, bank accounts, ertc etc. Yes - that is how powerful they can be.  The point - avoid playing with TRD - only lodge a tax return if/when it is very clear that you have to - and get legal tax advice before doing that and get them to lodge it for you.  To appeal any decision in Thailand it is mandated that all documents presented must be only in Thai - all documents. 

 

IMO the 'advice' that all Expats must lodge a tax return (those with over 60K Baht) and that 'income' could be anything including a pension, and therefore you have to lodge a tax return and TRD will decide - is total and utter Thai apologist rubbish.  Besides the fact that 10s of millions of Thais do not lodge tax returns ever, it is patently clear TRD does not want tax returns that claim the money to be paid is zero and which requires them to analyse and study those returns. TRD does not have the resources to deal with just the Expats alone all suddenly lodging tax returns (400K?), let along all the itinerant workers (5 million?), or all the Thais who earn over 60K a year (30 million?).  Is TRD goign to send an advice to all Thai banks to report to them anyone who has more than 100K in their account?  1 million? 5 million? 10 million? Does anyone seriously think they will send an advice to the banks to report all foreigners accounts only and not Thais?  

It's time to put up or forever stay silent......pass the poo or get off the pot......show us the money!

 

Which is it to be I wonder.

[Dogmatix]

On 4/17/2024 at 10:54 PM, 4myr said:

 

Seems to me that above exemptions [I highlighted] are covered in my country's DTA including state pensions. 

 

You didn't mention which DTA you were looking at but in the UK one and most others the types of income you highlighted -income from an employment, or from business carried on abroad,  from a property situated abroad or income from a state pension -  may be taxed in the UK (and/or Thailand) and the RD has indicated it will indeed tax all of those.  Where the DTAs say "may be taxed" that means there is an option to tax them and thus either or both parties may opt to tax it. Where DTAs say "shall be taxed"  that means it is mandatory to tax the income in that country and the other country shall not tax it.  In the case of state pensions the US is the only country I am aware of that insisted that its state pensions (social security) shall only be taxed in the US in its DTA.  Most other countries have an exemption for government pensions of former government employees but not for state pensions paid to all citizens. 

[Dogmatix]

On 4/15/2024 at 10:39 PM, Seeall said:

My mum sends me. One million every year. How you gonna argue with her?

 

Up to 20 million per gifted by ascendant relatives (parents) is exempted under the gift tax amendment. So you should be fine.

[topt]

1 minute ago, Dogmatix said:

You didn't mention which DTA

 

3 hours ago, 4myr said:

Focus of the meeting is the interpretation of Article 23.5 "exemptions" of the NL-Thai DTA from 1975:

The Netherlands I believe.......

[Dogmatix]

On 4/16/2024 at 7:35 PM, Ben Zioner said:

Yes my understanding is that I am tax exempt on pensions, my only source of income. Not wether I'll have to file a tax return, and how it would get processed, I have no idea. I going to visit BOI next week as I'll get a new passport and I'll ask them if they intend to get this clarified before the end of the year.

 

I would be good if you could show paperwork to prove that you 10 million were earned before January 1, 2024, as this would make them non taxable in any case.

 

But Royal Decree 743 only exempts income from employment, business abroad or derived from property abroad, if earned the previous year and remitted to Thailand.  It could be argued that a company pension paid directly by the company counts as income from past employment, even though you are now longer in employment but pension income is not specified which is odd, given that it covers wealthy pensioner LTRs. I would definitely clarify with the BOI.

[Dogmatix]

On 4/16/2024 at 5:17 PM, JimGant said:

Yes, as the current exemption for LTR holders is written. And doubtful that would ever be rescinded, as BoI (LTR honchos) is high horsepower, working directly under the Prime Minister.

 

The BOI is, indeed, under the PM but LTR was conceived under Prayut, not under the current Thaksin regime, whose brain child was Thai Elite. So LTR is effectively orphaned under this government and has been way less successful in pulling people in than was projected. I don't expect the government would issue another Royal Decree just to scrap the tax exemption but it could be repealed "in the interests of fairness" in new legislation to amend the RC, as there is no one in the current government who would resist that. If so, it would be applicable until LTR visas expire.

[4myr]

25 minutes ago, Dogmatix said:

 

You didn't mention which DTA you were looking at but in the UK one and most others the types of income you highlighted -income from an employment, or from business carried on abroad,  from a property situated abroad or income from a state pension -  may be taxed in the UK (and/or Thailand) and the RD has indicated it will indeed tax all of those.  Where the DTAs say "may be taxed" that means there is an option to tax them and thus either or both parties may opt to tax it. Where DTAs say "shall be taxed"  that means it is mandatory to tax the income in that country and the other country shall not tax it.  In the case of state pensions the US is the only country I am aware of that insisted that its state pensions (social security) shall only be taxed in the US in its DTA.  Most other countries have an exemption for government pensions of former government employees but not for state pensions paid to all citizens. 

read my report on the tax office visit on this subject

 

[Dogmatix]

20 hours ago, JohnnyBD said:

I wonder, if someone borrowed $100,000 USD and remitted it to Thailand, would that be non-assessable income? If one could prove it with loan documents? What do you think?

 

A loan is definitely not taxable income but loan documents would definitely be requested if audited by the RD.  Don't forget that you have to pay stamp duty on any agreement made in Thailand, which the RD will pick up on (don't ask me how I know this). 

 

If you have a BVI company to make the loan, you need to be careful that a BVI company extending interest free loans will be deemed "in scope" which means that it has to pay staff or a service company in the BVI.  I was looking at this but decided against it from the BVI perspective.  It probably applies to the Caymans and other jurisdictions too.

[TroubleandGrumpy]

7 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

I’ve grown tired of waking up to new abusive posts and PM’s each morning so I’ve decided to withdraw completely from the tax threads and the Simple Tax Guide. The fact is, the satisfaction derived from compiling the guide and helping members is far outweighed by faux challenges, aggravation and abuse. I’ve talked this through with Admin who has very generously proposed alternate solutions but I think mine is the better alternative.

By means of this post, I handover responsibility for making any future updates to the tax guide and answering questions, to members @stat @TroubleandGrumpy and @JimGant who appear to think they can do a better job and I feel certain will want to do all they can to help members.

I will not be reading PM’s again.

I wish you all well.

 

Mike that is your call and I 100% support your decision to do that.  In the end we all must do what is right for ourselves and not take upon ourselves to do something that is beyond our capabilities and not worth the efforts involved.  As I said to you a few months ago - you have been trying to herd cats and that is just not possible. 

Having said that I am sorry but I have no intention of making any updates to the tax guide you wrote - as I said many times, trying to do that and forcing everyone to agree with me and what I have written or go away is not something I will ever do.  However, I cannot speak for stat, Jim or others like Dogm and many others - perhaps one of them will want to do the impossible.

My advice going forward, is if you are ever in such a situation again or you do decide (again) to make a comeback, then rather than trying to force people to comply with and agree with your interpretation, to remove all wording regarding that point - until confirmation is provided by the TRD as to what interpretation is accurate. 

[TroubleandGrumpy]

5 hours ago, 4myr said:

Here a short summary of the 2nd meeting at the tax office in Prachuap Khiri Khan. First I planned to go to the office in Hua Hin, however I found out, Hua Hin has a much smaller branch office.

This time the topic is "exemptions" as specified in the Double Tax Agreement between NL and Thailand. Based on hardcopies in Thai and English. Both documents were retrieved from the Thai RD office.

 

We made an appointment with a lawyer from the Legal dept of the tax office. He asked his colleagues to join, 2 colleagues from the operational department. His female boss and a junior colleague who were in the room also listened to the conversation.

 

Focus of the meeting is the interpretation of Article 23.5 "exemptions" of the NL-Thai DTA from 1975:

https://wetten-overheid-nl.translate.goog/BWBV0003872/1976-06-09?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=nl&_x_tr_pto=wapp

 

"Where a resident of Thailand [i.e. tax resident] derives benefits and income or owns assets which are subject to the provisions of Articles 6, 7, 10(7), 11(5), 12(4), 14(1) and (2), 15(1) and (3) paragraphs, 16 , paragraphs 2, 17, 19  and 22, paragraphs 1 and 2, of this Agreement may be taxed in the Netherlands, Thailand shall exempt such benefits and income or those assets from tax, but may, in calculating the tax on the other income or capital of that resident, apply the tax rate that would have applied if the exempt income or capital had not been exempt."

 

The wording "shall exempt"  is very clear to me, and means no tax in Thailand, even if NL does not apply tax, for the following revenue items, which apply to me:

 

1) art 14.1 - in case I sell my house located in NL with profit and I remit this money. Capital gains are not taxed in NL.

2) art 16.2 - fees as a director of my company, which is based only in NL. Does not have a branch in Thailand

3) art 19 - when I retire in a couple of years, the state pension I will receive from government funds. 

 

Well in the meeting, the tax lawyer did not express his opinion. But his colleague from the operational dept was very clear and vocal. That in the history of tax filing cases, she did not come across exemptions being applied. Only tax credits are allowed.

 

Well I told her politely that I disagree with her, as the English version of 23.5, which I downloaded from the TRD website is quite clear, and when a dispute arises, between NL and TH, the English language version will be leading.

 

I also told her that the DTA is also clear about tax credits, which should be regarded differently than exemptions, in the subsequent article 23.6:

 

"Thailand shall grant a reduction in the tax calculated in accordance ..."

 

In case I do not agree with her answer, I can send the local tax office a written letter in Thai. Then they can open a case to request for advice to the head office in Bangkok. The officer said she will look into the matter again, if there were exemptions in the past, of tax not being applied in above mentioned cases.

 

Unfortunately the lawyer in the room did not say anything different than repeat what his colleague has said. His female boss printed out a case of a Swedish guy who filed tax about capital gains on stocks, however this does not match my case. I understand that gains on stocks does not get exemptions, also according to NL Thai DTA, as it is not fixed to a country similar to a property or a company.

 

At the end she had a simple advice, which will save time for me and the tax office. In the situation that I need to transfer sums of money, make sure I stay less than 180 days in that year in Thailand.

 

I also had a question about record keeping, in case an audit will check my records as evidence. The officer said that the RD got a lot of questions on this matter. She said that the RD head office will come with a document which list all these record keeping requirements. She could not say when. For example, on the day that I transfer money to Thailand, I need to keep a record of the euro-baht exchange rate of that day. [PS. I assume to convert a tax credit in euro to thai baht] 

Nothing less than I expected - TRD has no 'real world' understanding and working knowledge of the complications of DTAs. Hopefully the head office will provide an answer to that question - as well as detailed explanations of all matters related to using a DTA as an Expat is Thailand - but I do not expect that will be done anytime soon. 

[TroubleandGrumpy]

1 hour ago, Dogmatix said:

 

The BOI is, indeed, under the PM but LTR was conceived under Prayut, not under the current Thaksin regime, whose brain child was Thai Elite. So LTR is effectively orphaned under this government and has been way less successful in pulling people in than was projected. I don't expect the government would issue another Royal Decree just to scrap the tax exemption but it could be repealed "in the interests of fairness" in new legislation to amend the RC, as there is no one in the current government who would resist that. If so, it would be applicable until LTR visas expire.

Yes indeed - my read is the same outcome - Thaksin will get rid of the LTR exemption as soon as possible.

 

It is also my read that the LTR exemption would be viewed as being in breach of the international obligations Thailand has signed up to, one of them being this change regarding taxaing overseas incomes. Thailand is obliged under those obligations to stop taxation evasion and illegal money laundering.  Lets face it, the LTR could be easily bought by a person who illegal wishes to avoid taxation on international money transfers.  

[Rimmer]

A baiting personal attack has been removed

[Dogmatix]

5 hours ago, 4myr said:

 

 

I also had a question about record keeping, in case an audit will check my records as evidence. The officer said that the RD got a lot of questions on this matter. She said that the RD head office will come with a document which list all these record keeping requirements. She could not say when. For example, on the day that I transfer money to Thailand, I need to keep a record of the euro-baht exchange rate of that day. [PS. I assume to convert a tax credit in euro to thai baht] 

 

 

Actually the RD issues its own exchange rates for a long list of currencies that apply for certain periods for calculating tax.  So, in fact, the officer should not rely on the evidence of the actual exchange rate produced by the taxpayer but is supposed to look up the RD official exchange rate for that period.  However, if you have evidence of the remittance, you will have evidence of the exchange rate used by the bank anyway.  To compute baht value of a tax credit would the exchange rate of the period in which the remittance was made be used, or the date on which the tax was paid creating the tax credit or the date the income arose?  Who knows?  Probably 3 different RD officers will give 3 different answers. 

 

From the document you linked it looked like the Dutch DTA is more detailed than most of the others which tend to all look the same. The RD would probably need at least 5 years to prepare to implement DTAs which are not even supported by anything in the Revenue Code and there are very few cases regarding Thai implementation DTAs for PIT because under the original interpretation there was hardly any need for anyone to pay PIT  on remittances.  

[Dogmatix]

28 minutes ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

Yes indeed - my read is the same outcome - Thaksin will get rid of the LTR exemption as soon as possible.

 

It is also my read that the LTR exemption would be viewed as being in breach of the international obligations Thailand has signed up to, one of them being this change regarding taxaing overseas incomes. Thailand is obliged under those obligations to stop taxation evasion and illegal money laundering.  Lets face it, the LTR could be easily bought by a person who illegal wishes to avoid taxation on international money transfers.  

 

 

I agree.  That could be used as an excuse to get rid of the LTR tax exemptions. Under the old interpretation the LTR exemption was actually redundant, as it was no different from the exemption available to any Thai or foreign taxpayer.  But now it stands out like a sore thumb.

[Driller]

12 hours ago, Presnock said:

all one has to do is google "LTR Board of Investment" and it will give one the 4 categories of "wealthy" folks.

I don't remember asking you? Oh well... Thanks I guess? I was curious if the other guy had pertinent information?

[Dogmatix]

The answer to the question about what are the consequences of an individual tax resident not filing a PND90/91 tax return, if he has income over 120k but not enough to pay tax is that there is a fine of up to 2,000 baht for this under Section 35 of the RC.  Section 17 is the relevant section in the context of Section 35.  The amendment to require tax filings by people with no taxable income seems fairly pointless and it would obviously create a nasty backlash, if the government ordered the RD to raise a few billion in fines by rounding up millions of low income earners and fining them all 2,000.  

 

Section 35 Any person failing to comply with Sections 17, Sections 50 Bis, Sections 51 or Sections 69, unless in case of a force majeure, shall be subject to a fine not exceeding 2,000 Baht.

Section 17 is the relevant section in the context of Section 35.

 

Section 17 In relation to tax return filing, it shall be filed within the time limit specified in the Chapters regarding taxes and in accordance with the form prescribed by the Director-General.

 

The amendment to require tax filings by people with no taxable income seems fairly pointless and it would obviously create a nasty backlash, if the government ordered the RD to raise a few billion in fines by rounding up millions of low income earners and fining them all 2,000.  So I believe the RD has never been instructed to follow up on these non-filers. I expect this will continue to be the case but who knows what they decide to do. 

 

In future they may track everyone better and mail out reminders to file tax returns or, horror of horrors, may require tax returns from foreigners renewing visas. This latter actually seems quite possible, as foreigners are expected to have income over 120k for long stay visas. So logically they should have copies of tax filings.  However, I think it would take some years to get to this, if they ever do.

[NorthernRyland]

11 hours ago, Lacessit said:

Please wake me up when someone has their retirement extension refused because they do not have a Thai tax number. Until then, it's all ifs, buts and maybes.

 

Exactly my thoughts. It's very interesting to me the amount of people who are so eager to comply with this new law and are hiring lawyers and going to tax offices already. 

[Dogmatix]

Another interesting question that comes up is whether foreign pensions are classed as income from employment. Income from employment is exempted under Royal Decree 743 on LTR visas.  It is also subject to a tax allowance of 100k or 50% whichever is less for those who don't have LTR visas.  Re-looking at the Revenue Code I think foreign pensions are counted as income from employment, as it is listed under Section 40 (1), even though Royal Decree 743 doesn't specify pensions which unhelpful, given that it is partly directed at wealthy pensioners.  There is nothing in Section 40(1) to say that only Thai pensions are covered. However, I think it should technically be income directly from a former employer.  So income from a private savings type pension or a lump sum taken from a pension pot and used to buy an annuity might not pass and may be classed as investment income, if subjected to scrutiny.

 

40 (1) Income derived from employment, whether in the form of salary, wage, per diem, bonus, bounty, gratuity, pension, house rent allowance, monetary value of rent-free residence provided by an employer, payment of debt liability of an employee made by an employer, or any money, property or benefit derived from employment.⁴

[Ben Zioner]

3 hours ago, Dogmatix said:

 

But Royal Decree 743 only exempts income from employment, business abroad or derived from property abroad, if earned the previous year and remitted to Thailand.  It could be argued that a company pension paid directly by the company counts as income from past employment, even though you are now longer in employment but pension income is not specified which is odd, given that it covers wealthy pensioner LTRs. I would definitely clarify with the BOI.

 

"Section 5 Income tax under Part 2 of Chapter 3 in Title 2 of the Revenue Code shall be exempted for a foreigner categorised as Wealthy Global Citizen, Wealthy Pensioner, or Workfrom-Thailand Professional who is granted a Long-Term Resident Visa under immigration law for assessable income under section 40 of the Revenue Code derived in the previous tax year from an employment, or from business carried on abroad, or from a property situated abroad, and brought into Thailand."

 

"Section 40 Assessable income is income of the following categories including any amount of tax paid by the payer of income or by any other person on behalf of a taxpayer.

(1) Income derived from employment,whether in the form of salary, wage, per diem, bonus, bounty, gratuity, pension, house rent allowance, monetary value of rent- free residence provided by an employer, payment of debt liability of an employee made by an employer, or any money, property or benefit derived from employment.⁴

[Mike Lister]

9 hours ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

 rather than trying to force people to comply with and agree with your interpretation, to remove all wording regarding that point - until confirmation is provided by the TRD as to what interpretation is accurate. 

Such nonsense. You'd have us produce a tax guide that was full of blank pages, just because people like you disagreed that some points were implicit and not explicit. That's what the list of unknowns/unclear issues is for.

[Mike Lister]

On 4/18/2024 at 2:37 PM, OJAS said:

 

Yeah, right, so when are we likely to see YOUR version of the Simple Tax Guide on here, then? Or does carping negatively from the sidelines float your boat more?

 

The answer apparently, is never, it's too difficult and involves doing actual work rather than just talking about things.

[4myr]

12 hours ago, Dogmatix said:

 

From the document you linked it looked like the Dutch DTA is more detailed than most of the others which tend to all look the same. The RD would probably need at least 5 years to prepare to implement DTAs which are not even supported by anything in the Revenue Code and there are very few cases regarding Thai implementation DTAs for PIT because under the original interpretation there was hardly any need for anyone to pay PIT  on remittances.  

Recalling back to the meeting I tend to agree with you.

 

All tax officers in the meeting were only referring stuff from the Revenue Code, as if an international agreement like a DTA does not have any meaning, even to the lawyer in the room, while it should supersede national law.

 

Unfortunately for any law abiding tax resident, it's easier, cheaper and less frustrating not to escalate to RD headoffice/court, but to use the legit escape routes available in their tax rules, to achieve the same result as applying the DTA.  

[Danderman123]

I am in Hong Kong with a Thai lady. Instead of handing her cash, I transferred money from my US bank to her Thai bank account.

 

Is that a remittance into Thailand?

 

If I instead had used Western Union to send money to her here in Hong Kong, and then she carried the money into Thailand, would that have been a remittance into Thailand?