Opinion: Thailand’s ambitious plan to tax incoming funds risks falling flat due to lack of clarity

[Dogmatix]

If it were really an ambitious tax reform plan the government would have proposed a bill to amend the revenue code in parliament with public consultations and would have tried to get the public and its coalition partners on board.  As it was it decided to amend the law by stealth with a scrappy one page order to the effect that from 1 January the law that says foreign income is taxable only if remitted in the year it arises now means that foreign income going back indefinitely is now taxable when remitted to Thailand. 

 

An incredibly deceitful and stupid way to distort an existing law rather than amending it with due process. Lawmakers can change any law they want, if a majority agrees to vote for it (not certain in this case) but they should amend it properly and transparently allowing all those affected to understand exactly what has changes with plenty of time to adapt.  

[Ben Zioner]

1 hour ago, GeorgeCross said:

i wonder what would happen if in your case you transferred 845K under the proposed rule or 100K for that matter.

 

100% claimed as tax or 30% ?

and if in the latter would the balance rollover to the following year?

 

devil will be in the details.

 

 

Well if they want the receiving bank to withhold tax they would have to withhold some average rate, at least the first year, and then recalculate the effective rate when they do your tax return. The subsequent year the could use the effective rate for withholding, But who knows..

 

If that was the case I'd transfer 600k to myself, 600 to my wife. Make 100k work of cash withdrawals on my Maestro card  and use my two UBS credit cards. The transfers would only be for building up savings  at minimal  cost (7% Tax). 

 

But that's totally hypothetical, of course.

[SmartyMarty]

6 hours ago, retarius said:

I won't be paying taxes on already taxed income that's for sure. I'd rather move to the Philippines. 

See ya later. 

[SmartyMarty]

6 hours ago, Adumbration said:

I posted just last week that I have been selling my stuff here for the last 12 months and anyone that does not have a bug out strategy already in place will be caught off guard.  As usual my post was riduculed.

As it should be ridiculed. 

[tkramer]

7 hours ago, Enzian said:

Several times I've stated on forums that the fact that this government (even more than others) is perfectly capable of changing any rule in any way at any time is why I will never buy a condo here, or contemplate any other long term commitments for that matter. Even if this particular issue quickly blows over (or just doesn't apply to me personally), the point is only reinforced. Myself, if needed, can have everything wrapped up and be out of here for good within two months at most. Caveat emptor.

All the more reason Thailand should be colonized...!

[tkramer]

7 hours ago, Dmaxdan said:

From the original article...

 

This ambitious tax reform agenda needs to be more than just a headline. It should be a meticulously crafted policy that serves its constituents — both the haves and the have-nots — without sacrificing economic stability. As it stands, the proposed taxation on incoming funds is a well-intended but half-baked plan, a ship sailing into murky waters without a compass.

 

This just sums up the whole scheme in a nutshell.

"It should be a meticulously crafted policy that serves its constituents — both the haves and the have-nots — without sacrificing economic stability. "

 

My friend...what are you smoking...? 

 

(I know...it's supposedly legal...

 

but...)

[tkramer]

3 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Really? The BOB (bottom of the barrel) picks for finance minister and the other so called leaders is less than expected, performance wise. What did they expect? When they are selected based on who they know, not much can be expected.

 

So far, no positive policy, no good ideas. No forward vision. Nothing but oppression, repression, suppression, lies, fabrications, deflection, a total unwillingness to man up and take responsibility for anything, enrichment for the army, economic destruction, and no coherent policy in regard to revitalizing the once vibrant tourism industry. 

 

If you had tried to reduce your nation from a once powerful giant tiger shark, to a tiny, insipid, sickly minnow, you could not have done a better job than following up nine long years of army rule, by allowing PT and Sretta, teamed up with the army goons, to lead the nation. To say they are adrift, would be diplomatic.

"What did they expect? When they are selected based on who they know, not much can be expected.

So far, no positive policy, no good ideas. No forward vision. Nothing but oppression, repression, suppression, lies, fabrications, deflection, a total unwillingness to man up and take responsibility for anything, enrichment for the army, economic destruction, and no coherent policy in regard to revitalizing the once vibrant tourism industry. "

 

It is not now, and never has been part of Thai cerebral capacity.

 

''The average Thai has no idea what he did last week, or what he will be doing next week."

 

When I first came here I thought that it was just 'so Buddhist'...so 'here and now'.

 

But after some closer observation, I realized that they just lacked the capacity. I would like to blame it on too much salt, sugar, and fat in those cranial arteries and veins, but I'm afraid it just goes beyond that.

Edited September 19, 2023 by tkramer

[MartinBangkok]

4 hours ago, lordgrinz said:

Well its doing wonders for the THB/USD exchange right now, its at 35.905 and climbing! Here's hoping the Pheu Thai cause a financial collapse, would like to see the THB/USD to head above 40 before the end of the year.....555

Same with the Norwegian Crown :-0

Side note: Considering the appalling treatment we Farangs are subject to in this land of fake smiles (think 90 days reporting, notify police/immigration every single day you are out of your registered province, double pricing, rip offs, beuraucratic hell), I have already decided: I am out of here if I have to pay a single Baht in tax. We are treated worse than hard-line criminals/rapist's are in my home country.

[retarius]

I read that an IO is requesting all extension seekers to fill out a form itemising every foreign transaction for this year 2023. I do hope that this is just a single office and is not a country wide thing and that they are not planning to retroact the taxation change to 2023.

[MartinBangkok]

4 hours ago, wensiensheng said:

Loopholes, by definition, are perfectly legal. So why wouldn’t he avail himself of it?

Chuvit has obviously been silenced. (sorry, replying to previous comment about the new PMs dodgy tax dealings)

Edited September 19, 2023 by MartinBangkok
Replying to wrong comment

[RanongCat]

Typical sad panic button responses.

Yes indeed the initial "suggestion" to tax incoming funds without any clarification was worthy of some panic.

Was it "The Government" who announced a set plan ? Or was some eager wannabe news writer who wrote it in a way to invite/ incite panic?

Already there has been some clarification that eliminates  much concern for the average  fragile expat.

But it seems that for the sake of sharing comforting objections  that has been ignored ! 

 

[MartinBangkok]

4 hours ago, wensiensheng said:

Do you seriously think that happens in any developed country?

 

Of course it doesn’t. You pay taxes when you become tax resident in a country and it gives you none of the benefits that simply being a citizen of that country would give.

 

give it a break with the being a victim syndrome will you.

Bull<deleted>, try coming to Norway, you get better welfare rights than citizens, before you quickly become a citizen yourself .

[redwood1]

12 minutes ago, retarius said:

I read that an IO is requesting all extension seekers to fill out a form itemising every foreign transaction for this year 2023. I do hope that this is just a single office and is not a country wide thing and that they are not planning to retroact the taxation change to 2023.

I can itemise how many middle fingers I will have standing errect.....One...

[RanongCat]

29 minutes ago, tkramer said:

blah, blah, blah

Not only but also ........Blah !

[Guderian]

Look on the bright side. If they were to be stupid enough to go through with this state-sanctioned theft (i.e. taxing your taxed income twice in the case of remitting savings) then it provides a perfect excuse to relocate to Cambodia or the Philippines. In the latter case, there'll be an added benefit for us Brits as our state pension will be indexed there, unlike in Thailand where it's permanently frozen.

[MartinBangkok]

2 hours ago, LukKrueng said:

Is that how it works in your home country?

Yes, that's how it works in my home country Norway. Google it. You obviously don't know much about civilized nations.

Edited September 19, 2023 by MartinBangkok
Spelling

[xtrnuno41]

The article starts : funds entering the country from abroad

 

Meaning all money and banks play a part in it, as they have to give all information about money flowing into Thailand. And so it doesnt matter about pensions and already taxt somewhere else.

It comes in banks, so tax to pay. Period. Indeed a sort of wealth tax. 

 

Their clients, many of whom have already moved funds out of Thailand

 

SO somehow elite Thais and others moved out money, was that because you only get 1 million Baht in case of banks falling down? It also seems they know how to open bank accounts somewhere else.

Expats should keep bank account in home land, where return would be bigger in case of disaster.

However more homeland banks are shutting down for expats to have accounts in their homeland.

 

There is something going on in the world and it is not good. Many governments are hunting for money, anyway they can get their hands on. Of course not from the rich.

Is it because the very big 5- ties group is still alive and have to pay up now in advance?

And then later again when you are finally dead, the end bill?

 

I found a list of 724 big companies in Thailand, you can tax them more, the owners, the CEO's and the ones just below them. Tax the stockholders. You want to make gap more narrow, isnt it?! 

 

[newnative]

2 hours ago, crazykopite said:

When I moved here 18+ years ago the money I brought over was money I was prepared to lose and that still remains however I invested in property from day one and have more than quadrupled my original income and enjoy a very comfortable life style so it’s a case of swings and roundabouts I did the opposite to you and touch wood it will continue my Chinese neighbour keeps asking me if I want to sell my current property my answer I will give you first offer if I decide to !

     The first thing my partner and I did when we arrived in 2010 was buy a condo.  Some 20 property sales later, we have found, like you, that buying property here has proved to be profitable and we also now live a comfortable lifestyle.

[Isaan sailor]

The good news—your currencies up with the panic.

The bad news—no one has a clue.

[Adumbration]

5 hours ago, BenStark said:

Looks like forex market got the message as well.

 

AUD/THB up 1% and Thai gold price up 3%.

[yang123]

2 hours ago, retarius said:

I read that an IO is requesting all extension seekers to fill out a form itemising every foreign transaction for this year 2023. 

Q: Where did you read this?

TIA

[El Matador]

I am still wondering if the journalists missundertood the taxation idea or if the new Minister of Economy is extremely incompetent.

Only taxing the money coming into Thailand would be a good incentive to leave as much money as possible outside Thailand and would create something worse than doing nothing.

But taxing all the income worldwide wherever it is would make more sense to close the loophole. The money could enter Thailand as soon it is earned because it would be taxed anyway.

[Tom H]

Thai Baht will end up in a desaster.

All currencies surges already!

Gold all time high in Thailand!

 

Less FDI in Thailand 

 

Less money from less retirees for the economy (its not the “little”tax; its the whole pension missing for Thailand)

 

Less Expats

 

Less income for Thailand because of devaluation Thai Baht

 

Imports more expensive

 

Less money transfers into Thai Banks (risky)

 

But:

Exports will rise:) and the 10,000 Baht gimick hand out might be financed.

 

Key question is:

How do you prove your money abroad has been taxed 11 years ago when you dont have any paper:).

 

and

 

What happen with the buffallo sick/washing machine broken transfers to the missus account?

 

 

Positive: This youtubers/digital nomads must pay also:) and they hopefully move to Cambodia.

 

Edited September 19, 2023 by Tom H

[Skeptic7]

Another Typically Thailand ill-considered, greedy money grab by the same ol' inept nitwits. Different names and faces, same ol' stooges. If you're really so concerned about financial inequality, then open the vast Thailand coffers and lead by example. Eliminate the caste system.

Provide gainful employment with livable wages...not "slave labor" wages.

And MAN UP and do it from within. Don't do it off the backs of retired foreigners already spending all their hard earned money here.

 

Take responsibility FOR ONCE. 

[Skeptic7]

59 minutes ago, El Matador said:

I am still wondering if the journalists missundertood the taxation idea or if the new Minister of Economy is extremely incompetent.

Only taxing the money coming into Thailand would be a good incentive to leave as much money as possible outside Thailand and would create something worse than doing nothing.

But taxing all the income worldwide wherever it is would make more sense to close the loophole. The money could enter Thailand as soon it is earned because it would be taxed anyway.

Near everyone, everywhere, in any capacity is inept here. Apologies to those who'll claim I'm bashing. JUST CALLIN 'EM AS I SEE 'EM. And I've seen 'em for 30 years now. 

[Tom H]

When does the exchange rate profit since the government is in place equalise the tax? Lets say 1 M Baht per year?

 

Just in rough a quick calculation:

 

USD/THB 33,0:    30,000 USD

 

Tax 20%?:               6,000 USD lost

 

USD/THB 41,x:      24,000 USD (for 1M B)

 

Right now we have an exchange rate of nearly 36.

5 to go????

 

Done.

 

 

[Skeptic7]

12 hours ago, bob smith said:

Just wait until all this uncertainty trickles down into the housing/condo markets!

All those posh new high rises that have just been finished in BKK will be empty.

 

Nobody will want to risk brining their money into Thailand if the government can legally chip away at their savings. 

 

There is just far too much risk involved. 

I agree, they're all empty here already in Jomtien and parts of Pattaya. This place is wildly overbuilt and ripe for some comeuppance. Hope so❗

[Tom H]

5 hours ago, Ben Zioner said:

Well if they want the receiving bank to withhold tax they would have to withhold some average rate, at least the first year, and then recalculate the effective rate when they do your tax return. The subsequent year the could use the effective rate for withholding, But who knows..

 

If that was the case I'd transfer 600k to myself, 600 to my wife. Make 100k work of cash withdrawals on my Maestro card  and use my two UBS credit cards. The transfers would only be for building up savings  at minimal  cost (7% Tax). 

 

But that's totally hypothetical, of course.

Well, if you have a Thai account abroad you even can use this money over ATM:)

 

I know many banks with Thai accounts.

Wise i.e.

[ukrules]

12 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

This is misuderstood.

No it's not, many people live in Thailand only because of this rule.

 

It's not a loophole either, it's enshrined in law.

[david555]

4 hours ago, Tom H said:

Thai Baht will end up in a desaster.

All currencies surges already!

Gold all time high in Thailand!

 

Less FDI in Thailand 

 

Less money from less retirees for the economy (its not the “little”tax; its the whole pension missing for Thailand)

 

Less Expats

 

Less income for Thailand because of devaluation Thai Baht

 

Imports more expensive

 

Less money transfers into Thai Banks (risky)

 

But:

Exports will rise:) and the 10,000 Baht gimick hand out might be financed.

 

Key question is:

How do you prove your money abroad has been taxed 11 years ago when you dont have any paper:).

 

and

 

What happen with the buffallo sick/washing machine broken transfers to the missus account?

 

 

Positive: This youtubers/digital nomads must pay also:) and they hopefully move to Cambodia.

 

"Key question is:

How do you prove your money abroad has been taxed 11 years ago when you dont have any paper:). "

 

 

Well online on my Gov. pension site i can see how much my Gov. deducted from my monthly pension , and  for the whole year i get an official statement how much pension i received and the total of tax money is whit held .......clear as mud ...and needed for filling in  my tax declaration 

 

This for a E.U country pension

Edited September 19, 2023 by david555