Brexit: UK could rejoin EU as an ‘associate member’

[Chomper Higgot]

10 hours ago, youreavinalaff said:

It is a fact. All UK citizens are entitled to use NHS. Some non citizens too.

 

My thoughts are not fanciful. They are based on experience.

You were responding to my comment about a guy who was using his legal skills to get free old age car for his mother, we were not discussing general NHS care until you embarrassed yourself with a lack of knowledge on the matter.

Having posted your comments regarding the fairness of people who have saved and accrued wealth having to pay you’ll have difficulty claiming you were not engaging in a discussion on care in old age.

 

But I’m sure you will  at least try.

 

Edited September 22, 2023 by Chomper Higgot

[Eloquent pilgrim]

12 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

“this is a typical online tactic employed by trolls”

 

I’ll bow to your expertise on the matter.

It doesn’t matter how much you obfuscate and deflect, the fact remains, and it is a fact, even if you refuse to acknowledge it, that you replied to something I categorically did not say, rather than something I did say.

 

Take the time to read comments properly before replying; it shouldn’t be difficult for you, given the inordinate amount of time you spend on the forum.

[Chomper Higgot]

4 minutes ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

It doesn’t matter how much you obfuscate and deflect, the fact remains, and it is a fact, even if you refuse to acknowledge it, that you replied to something I categorically did not say, rather than something I did say.

 

Take the time to read comments properly before replying; it shouldn’t be difficult for you, given the inordinate amount of time you spend on the forum.

You mean you were talking about any other country on the planet except the one that is the subject of the thread.

 

Gotcha.

 

 

[JonnyF]

13 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I’m a supporter of the charity ’Soldiers off the streets’ but my support doesn’t run to taking a soldier off the streets and taking them into my own home.

Why doesn't that surprise me?

 

So much easier to pontificate on forums all day ????.

[Chomper Higgot]

Just now, JonnyF said:

Why doesn't that surprise me?

 

So much easier to pontificate on forums all day ????.

I’ll take your word on that.

[Chomper Higgot]

11 hours ago, vinny41 said:

the guy mother has been paying for care for a number of years

1) National Insurance

2) Adult Social Care Precept within your Council Tax  ( an additional amount put on everyone council tax bill

Maybe he is fed up with seeing Mp's in all parties claiming everything under the sun because they can

Everyone should be assessed for their health needs not how much they have in the bank

Hopefully the lawyer is aware of this website

https://caretobedifferent.co.uk/

I think he’s more concerned about his mother not making the contributions she is required to make out of her money that he hopes to inherit.

 

I doubt he regards himself as a spounger, but clearly spoiling it is his intent.

[JonnyF]

10 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I think he’s more concerned about his mother not making the contributions she is required to make out of her money that he hopes to inherit.

You're a mindreader now? 

 

10 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

 

I doubt he regards himself as a spounger, but clearly spoiling it is his intent.

Why hate on successful people so much? He and his family pay their taxes and NI they are entitled to the service they have paid for. Just because he's worked hard and done well for himself doesn't mean he should be punished. 

[Chomper Higgot]

9 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

You're a mindreader now? 

 

Why hate on successful people so much? He and his family pay their taxes and NI they are entitled to the service they have paid for. Just because he's worked hard and done well for himself doesn't mean he should be punished. 

Mind reader?

 

You seem to know a lot about this guy for whom I have related only very limited information.

 

There is no ‘entitlement’ for that which is excluded by the rules of entitlement.

 

If the rules say a person is above the wealth threshold then unless they meet the ‘continuing medical care clause’ they must pay towards their care.

 

Hiding wealth or falsifying statements in order to get access to ‘free’ care that one is not entitled to is scrounging.

 

But of course ‘scroungers’ can’t possibly be people who have personal wealth, ‘scroungers’ are by definition poor people.

 

 

 

 

Edited September 22, 2023 by Chomper Higgot

[billd766]

From the BBC News website this morning 22 September 2023

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-66878234

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-66878234

 

The first is from the Lib/Dem annual conference,

and the second from the labour party spokesperson.

 

[transam]

5 minutes ago, billd766 said:

From the BBC News website this morning 22 September 2023

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-66878234

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-66878234

 

The first is from the Lib/Dem annual conference,

and the second from the labour party spokesperson.

 

The Labour one isn't there, Bill....

[billd766]

21 minutes ago, transam said:

The Labour one isn't there, Bill....

Ooops. Plan B.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-66883986

 

I thought it was all over.

 

It is now.

 

 

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=612214739161420

Edited September 22, 2023 by billd766

[herfiehandbag]

21 hours ago, JayClay said:

Lol I knew that comment would trigger some people.

 

It's inevitable that we will rejoin the UK at some point. What's more, when it does happen, it'll be supported by both Labour and the Conservatives.

 

And before anyone asks, yes I do have a crystal ball on this particular topic, thank you.

It may well be supported by both Labour and the Conservatives. After all they had a cosy consensus on "matters EU" pretty well from the start.

 

That it proved to be a concensus not shared by the people ( remember that they voted to leave when foolishly Cameron gave them a vote on the business) matters to them not one jot. They know better!

 

 

Edited September 22, 2023 by herfiehandbag

[vinny41]

3 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Mind reader?

 

You seem to know a lot about this guy for whom I have related only very limited information.

 

There is no ‘entitlement’ for that which is excluded by the rules of entitlement.

 

If the rules say a person is above the wealth threshold then unless they meet the ‘continuing medical care clause’ they must pay towards their care.

 

Hiding wealth or falsifying statements in order to get access to ‘free’ care that one is not entitled to is scrounging.

 

But of course ‘scroungers’ can’t possibly be people who have personal wealth, ‘scroungers’ are by definition poor people.

 

 

 

 

And the Law states  that

“…where the primary need is a health need, then the responsibility is that of the NHS, even when the individual has been placed in a home by a local authority.”

I am sure you are aware that some NHS Trusts have been trying to discharge their responsibilities of primary health care ( NHS funded ) to social care ( Means tested) 

There is a well known Law Case Coughlan Case which the then Labour government tried to appeal against the ruling but were unsuccessful in their appeal

[youreavinalaff]

4 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

You were responding to my comment about a guy who was using his legal skills to get free old age car for his mother, we were not discussing general NHS care until you embarrassed yourself with a lack of knowledge on the matter.

Having posted your comments regarding the fairness of people who have saved and accrued wealth having to pay you’ll have difficulty claiming you were not engaging in a discussion on care in old age.

 

But I’m sure you will  at least try.

 

No need to try to do anything 

 

All uk citizens are entitled to NHS care. That is a fact. Even old people.

 

[Chomper Higgot]

10 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

And the Law states  that

“…where the primary need is a health need, then the responsibility is that of the NHS, even when the individual has been placed in a home by a local authority.”

I am sure you are aware that some NHS Trusts have been trying to discharge their responsibilities of primary health care ( NHS funded ) to social care ( Means tested) 

There is a well known Law Case Coughlan Case which the then Labour government tried to appeal against the ruling but were unsuccessful in their appeal

I don’t recall ever disputing any of that.

 

But thanks for posting anyhow.

[Chomper Higgot]

8 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

No need to try to do anything 

 

All uk citizens are entitled to NHS care. That is a fact. Even old people.

 

I think it’s all UK residents, I’m not aware of a nationality requirement.

[vinny41]

EU’s Common Agricultural Policy:

Today the CAP accounts for about 40% of the EU’s budget. It remains the EU’s most integrated policy, i.e., the one with the most decisions made at the EU level. 

Nationally, France is the country that benefits the most from the CAP funding, followed by Germany and Spain. Overall, farmers in the 15 older EU member states benefit much more from the CAP than the newer members, as their farmers get larger payments per hectare. 

https://www.slowfood.com/eus-common-agricultural-policy-key-things-you-should-know/

 

Here are the reasons why the EU feel the need for urgent reform

"If Ukraine joins the EU, most member states will suddenly become net contributors and will not get any more money and everything will move toward the east," Costa explained, "so if we want to fix that situation, we need more budget."

Countries such as Ukraine and Turkey both huge Agricultural countries would considerably reduce the amount of funding that France, Germany and Spanish farmers receive

https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2023/09/19/germany-france-present-eu-reform-proposal-as-bloc-prepares-for-new-members

[youreavinalaff]

7 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I think it’s all UK residents, I’m not aware of a nationality requirement.

I did forget to post the bit I previously posted "some non UK citizens". No need to have residence status.

 

However, nice to see you are in agreement with regards all UK citizens are entitled to NHS care.

[vinny41]

3 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

I did forget to post the bit I previously posted "some non UK citizens". No need to have residence status.

 

However, nice to see you are in agreement with regards all UK citizens are entitled to NHS care.

Services that are free to everyone

Some services or treatments carried out in an NHS hospital are exempt from charges, so they're free to all.

If you're visiting England for less than 6 months, you should ensure you're covered for healthcare through personal medical insurance during your visit, even if you're a former UK resident. If you're not ordinarily resident in the UK and you need to pay for NHS hospital treatment, you'll be charged at 150% of the national NHS rate.

https://www.nhs.uk/nhs-services/visiting-or-moving-to-england/how-to-access-nhs-services-in-england-if-you-are-visiting-from-abroad/

 

Hospital services

Hospital treatment is free to people who are "ordinarily resident" in the UK.

To be considered ordinarily resident and entitled to free hospital treatment, you must be living in the UK on a lawful and properly settled basis for the time being. You may be asked to prove this

[Chomper Higgot]

4 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

I did forget to post the bit I previously posted "some non UK citizens". No need to have residence status.

 

However, nice to see you are in agreement with regards all UK citizens are entitled to NHS care.

It was never in dispute.

 

But neither was it the issue you were referring to in your post:

 

16 hours ago, youreavinalaff said:

For those who have worked, paid tax and NI, NHS care is not a benefit. It's an entitlement and should not be refused just because someone has chosen to be financially astute all their life and accrued wealth.

 

You suggest those on low incomes should not be taxed to take care of someone with wealth but I guess you are OK for those same low earners to be taxed to pay for care for someone who has chosen not to plan for such, but decided to fritter their salaries away every month, or has been on benefit for much of their life.

 

And there was I thinking you were against discrimination. 

Wriggle away.

 

[youreavinalaff]

1 minute ago, Chomper Higgot said:

It was never in dispute.

 

But neither was it the issue you were referring to in your post:

 

Wriggle away.

 

I was referring those entitled to NHS care. Even old people. All are entitled.

 

No wriggles, no twists, no turns. 

 

What I wrote is fact.

[Chomper Higgot]

4 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

I did forget to post the bit I previously posted "some non UK citizens". No need to have residence status.

 

However, nice to see you are in agreement with regards all UK citizens are entitled to NHS care.

It was never in dispute.

 

But neither was it the issue you were referring to in your post:

 

16 hours ago, youreavinalaff said:

For those who have worked, paid tax and NI, NHS care is not a benefit. It's an entitlement and should not be refused just because someone has chosen to be financially astute all their life and accrued wealth.

 

You suggest those on low incomes should not be taxed to take care of someone with wealth but I guess you are OK for those same low earners to be taxed to pay for care for someone who has chosen not to plan for such, but decided to fritter their salaries away every month, or has been on benefit for much of their life.

 

And there was I thinking you were against discrimination. 

Wriggle away.

 

[CG1 Blue]

On 9/21/2023 at 2:23 PM, Chomper Higgot said:

Can you tell me the last time the UK electorate were not able to replace the UK Government by means of an ejection?

 

 

Wow, you still didn't understand. 

[nauseus]

On 9/21/2023 at 8:23 PM, Chomper Higgot said:

Can you tell me the last time the UK electorate were not able to replace the UK Government by means of an ejection?

 

 

Hey up and away!

 

[Chomper Higgot]

5 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Hey up and away!

 

 

Thanks Nauseus, I got a good smile out of that. 

 

I often think the auto-speller has a sense of humour. 

[nauseus]

3 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Thanks Nauseus, I got a good smile out of that. 

 

I often think the auto-speller has a sense of humour. 

You know me Chomper, always happy to brighten your day! 

[RayC]

6 hours ago, nauseus said:

Hey up and away!

 

Boris Johnson, July '22?

[wombat]

So just to be clear....

all those that want to rejoin the EU are happy to give up the sovereignty of England and be ruled by the faceless men in Brussels?

[RayC]

1 hour ago, wombat said:

So just to be clear....

all those that want to rejoin the EU are happy to give up the sovereignty of England and be ruled by the faceless men in Brussels?

Imo unless you want the UK to shut itself off from the rest of the world like North Korea, 'taking back control' and the purity of national sovereignty is a myth. All political and trade deals have a cost; it just depends what price a nation is willing to pay.

 

The idea that EU member states are ruled by "faceless men in Brussels" is nonsense. 

 

https://european-union.europa.eu/institutions-law-budget/law/how-eu-policy-decided_en#:~:text=EU decision-making process,representing the EU's overall interests

Edited September 25, 2023 by RayC
Addition of word

[nauseus]

56 minutes ago, RayC said:

Imo unless you want the UK to shut itself off from the rest of the world like North Korea, 'taking back control' and the purity of national sovereignty is a myth. All political and trade deals have a cost; it just depends what price a nation is willing to pay.

 

The idea that EU member states are ruled by "faceless men in Brussels" is nonsense. 

 

https://european-union.europa.eu/institutions-law-budget/law/how-eu-policy-decided_en#:~:text=EU decision-making process,representing the EU's overall interests

EU member states are ruled by their own governments but the EU itself assumes much of the power that would otherwise be solely held and applied by these individual governments, if they were not EU members.

 

EU Law is proposed only by the Commission, which is comprised of commissioners from various member states. The main problem with this is that the EU now has 27 member states. The best interests of all members are different can rarely best served by one body (commission) making laws for all. This was one of the reasons for Brexit. 

 

The EU Commissioners themselves, are nominated for selection and approval, rather than being purely and openly elected. This system seems to rely more on closed-door bartering, rather than democratic process and has produced some poor results in the past, and more today.

 

Here, I'm particularly thinking of the EU Commission President, Ursula von der Leyen, who had a poor record as German defence minister, no experience at all within the EU and was criticized by her own compatriots: “the Bundeswehr’s condition is catastrophic,” wrote Rupert Scholz, former German defense minister, who added. “The entire defense capability of the Federal Republic is suffering, which is totally irresponsible.”

 

After that, von der Leyen magically emerged as EU President but only after an overnight intervention by Angela Merkel (who also seemed keen on overnight trips for Theresa May). This event confirmed who really was running the EU for so long. 

 

I wonder how many Europeans (apart from Germans)  knew who Ursula von der Leyen even was before she became the boss? Single digit % I would bet.