What is the real deal with proposed foreign income tax changes?

[Letseng]

11 hours ago, koolkarl said:

It isn't proposed but a fact and has been in the works for years.  It is an income and asset cooperating agreement between Thailand and most other countries and this info is updated yearly.  The information goes both ways. If you reside in Thailand more than 180 days a year, you will be liable for tax on your world income and Thai tax authorities will know about it.  So start packing.

It is usually a period of 183 days not 180. At least where I come from. ????

[roger101]

As far as I know pensions from the UK come under the Double Tax Agreement which means if you paid tax there you wont pay tax on it here. Of course I could be wrong.

[Gknrd]

It could happen???  hahaha.  Don't worry, 

 

[mommysboy]

As a Brit, I've previously thought that the Philippines is likely the best destination as a plan B, simply because of the yearly pension uprate.  But I somehow don't think it will come to that, will it now!  Expats from the USA, where there is a reciprocal tax agreement, shouldn't even be concerned with this story anyway.

[HandsomeTallFarang]

Who is that Joker in the photo trying to bring industrial packing material into an airport and onto their flight? I swear you only see this dumbassery from Chinese and Thai, for what amounts to probably saving less than $15 in shipping costs. Absolutely pathetic.

[stat]

3 hours ago, Letseng said:

It is usually a period of 183 days not 180. At least where I come from. ????

It is where you (and I) come from but in TH it is 180 days.

[Misty]

14 hours ago, wwest5829 said:

According to the recent tax expert who spoke at the Chiang Mai Expat Club meeting, your statement is false. I think I will listen to those whose business is tax matters between Thailand and the countries having tax treaties.

Who was the tax expert?

[wwest5829]

9 hours ago, Misty said:

Who was the tax expert?

Representatives from American International Tax Advisors. They said they will return next month to update the Chiang Mai Expat Club members. The Club meets on the last Saturday of the month at Meliá Hotel in Chiang Mai.

[topt]

11 hours ago, roger101 said:

As far as I know pensions from the UK come under the Double Tax Agreement which means if you paid tax there you wont pay tax on it here. Of course I could be wrong.

Unfortunately the only pensions covered under the DTA between UK and Thailand are government - that is civil service. Private pensions and state pension are specifically not covered. 

This has come up numerous times.

Easiest way is to look at the Digest of DTAs -

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/710099/DT_Digest_April_2018.pdf

 

Go to page 34, Thailand look at note 4 on the far right of the page. 

[Hummin]

On 9/25/2023 at 9:22 AM, WorriedNoodle said:

After clicking one second into the vid seeing some yahoo sat on a bench supping a can I knew I wasn't watching the 'real deal' as implied by the subject title so switched it off.

The can most is likely a running or attempting sponsorship, and I will give the dude a chance at once I'm home, so keep on reading headlines and continue commenting on subjects you know F all about.

[Khyron]

The key word is "income". Due to the agreements between LOS banks and other counties, it would be very unlikely that you as retirees would pay anything other than what is normally taxed as income. Savings would not be taxed, as it is not income.

 

As much as the current government is courting western businesses to set up shop here, double taxation probably isn't in the cards as it would be a huge turnoff to any foreign investors.

 

I believe that the current people in charge now, as much as most do not agree with how they came to be, they are pretty savvy businessmen and know how to attract investment. 

 

Of course YMMV. ????

 

[Misty]

6 hours ago, wwest5829 said:

Representatives from American International Tax Advisors. They said they will return next month to update the Chiang Mai Expat Club members. The Club meets on the last Saturday of the month at Meliá Hotel in Chiang Mai.

AMCHAM Thailand's excellent Tax committee has a seminar on this subject on 4 October. 

[wwest5829]

5 minutes ago, Misty said:

AMCHAM Thailand's excellent Tax committee has a seminar on this subject on 4 October. 

Thanks but I am not in Bangkok.

[jerrymahoney]

1 hour ago, wwest5829 said:

Thanks but I am not in Bangkok.

Webinar. 1000 baht for non AMCHAM members.

[wwest5829]

22 minutes ago, jerrymahoney said:

Webinar. 1000 baht for non AMCHAM members.

Thanks but 1000 baht is best spent elsewhere. I am a US economic refugee retired on $2400. USD in a lower cost country as a career U.S. educator.

[jerrymahoney]

Just now, wwest5829 said:

Thanks but 1000 baht is best spent elsewhere. I am a US economic refugee retired on $2400. USD in a lower cost country as a career U.S. educator.

I will assume any hard-core results from that meeting will become available elsewhere.

[wwest5829]

1 minute ago, jerrymahoney said:

I will assume any hard-core results from that meeting will become available elsewhere.

I agree, Jerry. I will stay tuned.

[jerrymahoney]

8 minutes ago, wwest5829 said:

I agree, Jerry. I will stay tuned.

Maybe read this for now:

 

https://mahanakornpartners.com/the-revenue-department-closes-loopholes-tightening-tax-collection-on-foreign-income/

[Misty]

2 hours ago, wwest5829 said:

Thanks but I am not in Bangkok.

It's online.

[wwest5829]

1 hour ago, jerrymahoney said:

Maybe read this for now:

 

https://mahanakornpartners.com/the-revenue-department-closes-loopholes-tightening-tax-collection-on-foreign-income/

Thanks, Jerry.

[In the jungle]

I do wonder whether the Thai Revenue department actually have mechanisms in place to know who has been here more than 180 days a year.

 

Sure Immigration have that information in their system but I would be willing to bet that calculating whether you were here more than 180 days a year would be a manual process on a case by case basis.

 

To illustrate my point I have been here 23 years and I have had no contact with the Revenue Department.  Until 2019 I had never applied for an extension of stay.

 

I don't think Thai officialdom are big on 'joined up government'.  The same is true of many western governments.

[Litlos]

On 9/25/2023 at 1:54 PM, Marco100 said:

With the AEOI - CRS ( automatic exchange of information banks to country  ) if you are registered  at your bank as a Thai resident  than the Thai fiscal authorities will know your bank statements end of the year .

If you reside  more than 180 days in Thailand I assume you will enter in the taxable regime. 

Till now if it was savings it was not taxed .

Will have to understand  what they want to tax and what % ....

Would you like to try again as way off the mark. And CRS is between tax authorities not banks.

Edited September 26, 2023 by Litlos

[jerrymahoney]

This has been posted in various forms elsewhere, but this is from the official Treaty Doc (click on jpg to enlarge):

 

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-trty/thailand.pdf

 

Edited September 26, 2023 by jerrymahoney

[Captain Monday]

On 9/25/2023 at 8:24 AM, roger101 said:

As far as I know pensions from the UK come under the Double Tax Agreement which means if you paid tax there you wont pay tax on it here. Of course I could be wrong.

Not exactly. Huge oversimplification but let's say you earn 100K pension in the UK, and it is taxed 30 percent by HMRC. Then If you land all these funds in Thailand and  (just say the tax rate for the same income is 35 percent as tax resident here) you owe Thailand 5000 pounds to make up the difference. That is not double taxation. If the tax rate is less you should not owe anything. 

 

[rickudon]

For most of us, will not break the bank even if taxation applied to ALL income. I did the tax assessment on the link posted earlier, and on an income of 55,000 baht a month i would pay 19,000 a year. As most of my pension IS covered by the UK/Thailand taxation treaty (ex-government employee) probably very little or nothing. Being married with children helps a bit.....

[Smokin Joe]

This is the latest official info from The Thai Revenue Department.

This is a new interpretation of the current tax laws The laws have not been changed (yet). This new interpretation makes assessable income taxable regardless of the year it was earned.

 

https://www.hlbthai.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/RD-Instruction-No.-Paw161-2566-Translation.pdf

 

The link is a 3rd party website but the document is the official Revenue Department Instruction dated 15 Sep 2023

[Smokin Joe]

A couple of other points.

 

Thailand has Double Taxation Agreements with 61 countries. Violating any of these would be frowned upon.

 

https://www.rd.go.th/english/766.html

 

The tax laws only apply to income that is brought into Thailand. The main concern may be whether the money brought in is "Assessable Income".

The Thai Revenue Department has an English language website with more info:

 

https://www.rd.go.th/english/6045.html

 

2.1 Assessable Income

Income chargeable to the PIT is called “assessable income”. The term covers income both in cash and in kind. Therefore, any benefits provided by an employer or other persons, such as a rent-free house or the amount of tax paid by the employer on behalf of the employee, is also treated as assessable income of the employee for the purpose of PIT. Assessable income is divided into 8 categories as follows :

1. income from personal services rendered to employers;
2. income by virtue of jobs, positions or services rendered;
3. income from goodwill, copyright, franchise, other rights, annuity or income in the nature of yearly payments derived from a will or any other juristic Act or judgment of the Court;
4. income in the nature of dividends, interest on deposits with banks in Thailand, shares of profits or other benefits from a juristic company, juristic partnership, or mutual fund, payments received as a result of the reduction of capital, a bonus, an increased capital holdings, gains from amalgamation, acquisition or dissolution of juristic companies or partnerships, and gains from transferring of shares or partnership holdings;
5. income from letting of property and from breaches of contracts, installment sales or hire-purchase contracts;
6. income from liberal professions;
7. income from construction and other contracts of work;
8. income from business, commerce, agriculture, industry, transport or any other activity not specified earlier.

Edited September 28, 2023 by Smokin Joe
grammar

[NoshowJones]

On 9/25/2023 at 1:02 PM, NoshowJones said:

What benefits? The health service is screwed, TV licence. council tax, and worst of all energy prices, then if you are not a state pensioner, transport charges, bus, train. Oh! and don't forget the dreadful weather. I was in the UK last June and July and never once been able to leave my rented flat without wearing a hoody.

Who is that deluded poster with the sad emo. Are you saying I'm telling lies?