What's your opinion on this? Jordan Peterson on IQ

[NextG]

3 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

I have been following my fellow refugee from Canuckistan for a number of years, since his days at U of T, when he was railing against government mandated speech laws. He was a lot more fiery in those days. As he grew more as a public figure, he began to be more measured in his speech and take more time to give thoughtful answers. He is very careful to choose his words so as not to give any ammunition to his detractors.

 

Basically, my boy's wicked smart. A rare person who actually listens when asked a question, and who thinks before answering. Also honest enough to say "I don't know" when he doesn't know.  

 

His daughter is also fairly far along the smokin' scale!

Pretty sad that you felt the need to post a picture of his daughter here. Also pretty sad that she felt the need to post pictures of herself…

[Hanaguma]

2 minutes ago, NextG said:

Pretty sad that you felt the need to post a picture of his daughter here. Also pretty sad that she felt the need to post pictures of herself…

Sad? How so, you don't enjoy looking at pretty and brainy young ladies? It's a classy and elegant photo of  a smart woman in her prime.

 

Lighten up, sassafrass. 

[NextG]

Just now, Hanaguma said:

Sad? How so, you don't enjoy looking at pretty and brainy young ladies? It's a classy and elegant photo of  a smart woman in her prime.

 

Lighten up, sassafrass. 

I go out with them, rather than posting pictures. 

[Hanaguma]

2 minutes ago, NextG said:

I go out with them, rather than posting pictures. 

...and I married one.   31 years ago. We done yet?

[NextG]

Just now, Hanaguma said:

...and I married one.   31 years ago. We done yet?

I don’t know, sassafrass….. you tell me. 
Perhaps show a bit more respect for your wife whilst you’re at it. 

[donmuang37]

My opinion is he's telling a truth that a lot of politicians don't want to hear or acknowledge.  Before I retired, I worked for a telecom manufacturing company, When I first joined it, 40% of the staff had an earned Ph.D.  You didn't have to tell them the same thing twice!!  People were supersmart and it was a joy to work there.  My first career was in the military where I worked with both very high IQ people and very low IQ people.  As Peterson indicated, it is very difficult to teach complex tasks to people with low IQs.  If anyone believes we are "all the same." they should pick a surgeon with a low IQ when the need treatment.   But only a fool would do that!  I rest my case.  JMHO

[London Lowf]

10 hours ago, 1FinickyOne said:

My 3 smartest friends all killed themselves... 

That makes perfect sense to me - better to be the master of your own destiny, particularly if you have a terminal physical or mental condition.

[GammaGlobulin]

 

[Gaccha]

1 hour ago, donmuang37 said:

My first career was in the military where I worked with both very high IQ people and very low IQ people.  As Peterson indicated, it is very difficult to teach complex tasks to people with low IQs. 

Something that has stuck in my mind over a couple of decades is that the British Army had an unofficial policy of never having the platoon commander possess more than 30 IQ points above the squadies in the platoon. 

 

The reasoning behind this is the commanders thinking would be so beyond the capacity of the squadies to comprehend that they would not trust in his commands. 

[Yellowtail]

4 hours ago, PremiumLane said:

Peterson is an utter clown

Another clear, concise and well thought out response from the left. 

[aqua4]

I think Richard Lynn was the expert on the issue. IQ and the Wealth of Nations was a very good intro to the subject. People with lower IQ's cant comprehend complex tasks. Hence the type of economy they would have will be less complex compared to those with higher IQ's. So what is intelligence - in my view - pattern recognition. You have the ability to see patterns forming. IQ in my view is mainly genetic which most likely provides 75% of your IQ and 25% environmental. So the Flynn effect is closing the 25% environmental gap. Lynn once spoke about how he was limited by the Chinese government that he could only take the IQ tests in certain wealthy areas. Most of the test takers had American accents which he found strange. On more than one occasion he noticed that the same students arrived in different towns in China where he held the tests. He was a remarkable man with really good insight. One of the brightest people I had ever spoken too. RIP. 

 

The topic came up once many years back and a friend of mine asked me what I thought the chances of Cambodia rising would be. Considering the war had a massive dysgenic effect on the population. I said that it did not look good. The bright ones are a minority and they will have fewer kids than the not so bright people. Either way it does not look very good. 

 

Much like the speculation as to what would happen in sub-Sahara Africa. Pretty much the same disaster we already see unfolding. Most likely a malthusian catastrophe. Nature has a way to keep everything in check. 

[JensenZ]

15 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I like a lot of what he does. There is also some which I don't like, like his religious videos.

I saw mostly interviews from him when he interviewed interesting people. He asks questions, listens, and he adds his own (educated) thoughts. I think there is nothing wrong with that.

 

After he spoke out against the (at that time proposed) new law in Canada he got a lot more media attention. He is often invited as a controversial guest. It's no surprise that that is controversial.

 

I am sure he is not only interested in people with IQ over 120. But listening to him people below that IQ level will have often problems to follow his thoughts and what he says. I don't blame him for not dumbing down what he says.

He also spent time as clinical psychologist with below average IQ people, and he helped them. 

He is not perfect, but he has definitely many interesting thoughts which are worth listening to. 

 

This is one of those fascinating conversations I listened to.

 

 

He might be smart, but explaining his thoughts to less intelligent people is a skill he's never developed and mostly, whenever I've endured his speeches, he comes across as arrogant. In the OP's posted video, he is not dumbing it down, but lecturing to a university class.  

Edited October 4, 2023 by JensenZ

[Kinok Farang]

On 10/3/2023 at 11:16 AM, NextG said:

????????‍♂️
Whilst all the while the incredibly high IQ people are continually being outsmarted by people who stopped attending school at twelve years old. Super high IQ GG on this board cannot even find himself a woman. 
Easy to bend history to suggest that one race invented everything. Conveniently forgetting that not so long ago it would have not been acceptable to even admit that a woman or a person of colour was the real inventor. So don’t put too much stock in that. 
A sad state of affairs that so many need JP to validate their existence. 

Slow down fella.We all know the Brits invented everything worth inventing.Brit men that is.

[OneMoreFarang]

2 hours ago, JensenZ said:

He might be smart, but explaining his thoughts to less intelligent people is a skill he's never developed and mostly, whenever I've endured his speeches, he comes across as arrogant. In the OP's posted video, he is not dumbing it down, but lecturing to a university class.  

If you would be genius smart, and you thought a lot and know a lot and like to spread your knowledge, who would you talk to? To smart people, who have a chance to understand what you think?
Or would you try to explain to the mentally challenged things which they will likely not understand?
I am sure in a one-on-one conversation with a patient Jordan will be able to explain something to a low IQ patient. But who would want to see him if he would address a room full of people as if they are all stupid?
I remember he said he had a patient who he trained to fold letters and put them in envelopes. According to Jordan he spent many hours with that. And for that low IQ patient it was necessary, and he helped him. But imagine him spending 10 minutes with that in front of a big audience…
 

[GammaGlobulin]

1 minute ago, OneMoreFarang said:

If you would be genius smart, and you thought a lot and know a lot and like to spread your knowledge, who would you talk to? To smart people, who have a chance to understand what you think?
Or would you try to explain to the mentally challenged things which they will likely not understand?
I am sure in a one-on-one conversation with a patient Jordan will be able to explain something to a low IQ patient. But who would want to see him if he would address a room full of people as if they are all stupid?
I remember he said he had a patient who he trained to fold letters and put them in envelopes. According to Jordan he spent many hours with that. And for that low IQ patient it was necessary, and he helped him. But imagine him spending 10 minutes with that in front of a big audience…
 

Jordan will always be identified with envelopes, as long as he lives. 

 

Personally, I would never date a Pattaya bar girl who would not allow me to stuff her envelope on the first date. 

 

Or lick the stamp on it. 

 

Anyway, from my experience, girls with higher IQs seem to have more symmetry in their envelopes. 

 

In addition, licking their stamps leaves a more pleasant taste lingering on the tongue. 

 

 

[JensenZ]

9 hours ago, NextG said:

Pretty sad that you felt the need to post a picture of his daughter here. Also pretty sad that she felt the need to post pictures of herself…

If feeling melancholy is your thing, try this. Mikhaila is 31, and has been suffering from autoimmune disease her entire life... she had a hip and an ankle replaced at age 22, and now, for 6 years she only eats beef. She's eats striploin steak 3 times a day and nothing else. It's a remarkable story as she seems quite healthy on this diet.

 

Mikhaila Peterson

[NextG]

1 hour ago, OneMoreFarang said:

If you would be genius smart, and you thought a lot and know a lot and like to spread your knowledge, who would you talk to? To smart people, who have a chance to understand what you think?
Or would you try to explain to the mentally challenged things which they will likely not understand?
I am sure in a one-on-one conversation with a patient Jordan will be able to explain something to a low IQ patient. But who would want to see him if he would address a room full of people as if they are all stupid?
I remember he said he had a patient who he trained to fold letters and put them in envelopes. According to Jordan he spent many hours with that. And for that low IQ patient it was necessary, and he helped him. But imagine him spending 10 minutes with that in front of a big audience…
 

I can hardly believe the nonsense I see written here so often. 
Shocking really. 
Think of a blind man…his other senses heightened. In the same way, we utilise our brains in different ways. I can barely draw a circle, whilst someone else may be able to draw a lifelike portrait.

Everyone has something unique. The problem may be when the feel the pressure to be like everyone else. The IQ test nonsense is a perfect example and one of the reasons why I didn’t even try. 
I didn’t want to be ‘pigeonholed’. My friends are from all walks of life and with them I experienced a far more broad spectrum of life than I would have done on my own. 
So yes, I’ll take that extra ten minutes to teach someone a new skill and perhaps I’ll learn something too. 

 

 

 

[NextG]

17 minutes ago, JensenZ said:

If feeling melancholy is your thing, try this. Mikhaila is 31, and has been suffering from autoimmune disease her entire life... she had a hip and an ankle replaced at age 22, and now, for 6 years she only eats beef. She's eats striploin steak 3 times a day and nothing else. It's a remarkable story as she seems quite healthy on this diet.

 

Mikhaila Peterson

Not my thing…

[JensenZ]

1 hour ago, NextG said:

Not my thing…

Sorry for the misunderstanding. I got the impression that you were overridden with grief when another member posted a photo of this remarkable woman. Either way, it's a very interesting story.

[OneMoreFarang]

3 hours ago, NextG said:

I can hardly believe the nonsense I see written here so often. 
Shocking really. 
Think of a blind man…his other senses heightened. In the same way, we utilise our brains in different ways. I can barely draw a circle, whilst someone else may be able to draw a lifelike portrait.

Everyone has something unique. The problem may be when the feel the pressure to be like everyone else. The IQ test nonsense is a perfect example and one of the reasons why I didn’t even try. 
I didn’t want to be ‘pigeonholed’. My friends are from all walks of life and with them I experienced a far more broad spectrum of life than I would have done on my own. 
So yes, I’ll take that extra ten minutes to teach someone a new skill and perhaps I’ll learn something too. 

We can and should all learn from many people, independently of their IQ.

But in general we can learn more from smart people with a high IQ.

I think you misunderstand the concept what the IQ test is about. But I don't have much hope you will even try to find out.

[NextG]

2 hours ago, JensenZ said:

Sorry for the misunderstanding. I got the impression that you were overridden with grief when another member posted a photo of this remarkable woman. Either way, it's a very interesting story.

But nothing at all to do with the topic. At least you didn’t feel the need to post her picture. Anyone who feels the need to read about her can click through your link. Thank you for your understanding. 

[NextG]

2 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

We can and should all learn from many people, independently of their IQ.

But in general we can learn more from smart people with a high IQ.

I think you misunderstand the concept what the IQ test is about. But I don't have much hope you will even try to find out.

You thought wrong…I wasn’t joking about my tests, whereas you flat out….

“Smart people with high IQ” ????

You don’t have a clue… 

 

[Jeff the Chef]

I gave up on the first one and tried the one on the job market, conclusion, I despair for the human race.

 

IQ has nothing on common sense, empathy and compassion for others.

[nobodysfriend]

Intelligence ... before you talk about it , define it .

[jaywalker2]

George W. Bush proved that you don't need a high IQ to become president of the United States.

 

I have always thought that IQ is less important in life than social skills and emotional attributes such as drive and ambition except, perhaps, in very specialized occupations.

[Walker88]

I'll repeat:

 

IQ is a function of the number and efficiency of neurons in the brain.

 

Some people are born with an Intel 8088 and others with an Intel Core i9. Or think of it as some are born with a Bowmar Brain while others are a quantum computer. Nurture can have some impact, but nature sets the stage for unfairness, just as it makes some people beautiful and some butt ugly, some tall and athletic and some short and uncoordinated. JP talks around it a bit, but what he's saying in effect is that we have to accept and deal with the reality that is, not the reality we might want. We can agree or disagree with JP.

 

The long debate on whether different races have genetic differences devolved into PC vs racists, There may be an objective truth somewhere, but we'll never find it and maybe shouldn't, because group ability can be used to ignore individual ability. In the end, each of us is an individual, regardless of ethnicity.

 

No doubt I'm 100% wrong, but it always puzzled me that traits involving just a minimum of gene expression---such as avg height, avg fat deposition, skin color, hair color, eye color---are accepted as fact and part of the rich human fabric, but gene expression regarding the most complex organ in the human body is supposedly 100% similar across every race, resulting in no difference between populations (even though it is accepted that there arise vast differences among populations). Craig Venter and others who decoded the human genome found that various races mated with primates in areas to which some humans had migrated, such as Neanderthals among future Europeans and Denisovans among future Asians, but we must accept that this had no impact on anything other than superficial characteristics.

 

If such differences do, in fact, arise, then I'm glad humans now accept interracial pairing, because everything will eventually even out.

[nobodysfriend]

3 minutes ago, Walker88 said:

various races mated with primates in areas to which some humans had migrated, such as Neanderthals among future Europeans and Denisovans among future Asians, but we must accept that this had no impact on anything other than superficial characteristics.

???   Who knows what would have happened to the human genome if there would not have been any sexual interference with more primitive races ...?

 

6 minutes ago, Walker88 said:

I'm glad humans now accept interracial pairing, because everything will eventually even out.

Me too ... No more nationalities , no more racial differences . Equal , good education for everyone at the same level . All humans work together to build a better future ... Naive , ok , but apparently much too difficult to achieve as well .

 

Le soleil donne la meme couleur aux gens ...

 

 

[PremiumLane]

10 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

Another clear, concise and well thought out response from the left. 

Oh you mean like when he debated Slavoj Zizek and clearly didn't know anything about the subject and admitted he hadn't even read Marx. 

 

Or, how about him whinging on Joe Rogan about how the "left" won't debate him. Which is funny considering how poorly he did with Slavoj Zizek and how he ran away from a debate with the economist Richard Wolff. Shall we also bring up his embarrassing claims to Matt Dillahunty about addiction and god? 

 

And then there is his melt down and Benzos addiction, and let's not forget his inane vapid posting on social media, or his cozying up to the fascists (and before you start winning, it is funded by right-wing backers and has self-proclaimed fascists as hosts)  on the Daily Wire.

 

So your "oh the left are reasonable" response is laughable 

Edited October 5, 2023 by PremiumLane

[GammaGlobulin]

44 minutes ago, Walker88 said:

I'll repeat:

 

IQ is a function of the number and efficiency of neurons in the brain.

 

Some people are born with an Intel 8088 and others with an Intel Core i9. Or think of it as some are born with a Bowmar Brain while others are a quantum computer. Nurture can have some impact, but nature sets the stage for unfairness, just as it makes some people beautiful and some butt ugly, some tall and athletic and some short and uncoordinated. JP talks around it a bit, but what he's saying in effect is that we have to accept and deal with the reality that is, not the reality we might want. We can agree or disagree with JP.

 

The long debate on whether different races have genetic differences devolved into PC vs racists, There may be an objective truth somewhere, but we'll never find it and maybe shouldn't, because group ability can be used to ignore individual ability. In the end, each of us is an individual, regardless of ethnicity.

 

No doubt I'm 100% wrong, but it always puzzled me that traits involving just a minimum of gene expression---such as avg height, avg fat deposition, skin color, hair color, eye color---are accepted as fact and part of the rich human fabric, but gene expression regarding the most complex organ in the human body is supposedly 100% similar across every race, resulting in no difference between populations (even though it is accepted that there arise vast differences among populations). Craig Venter and others who decoded the human genome found that various races mated with primates in areas to which some humans had migrated, such as Neanderthals among future Europeans and Denisovans among future Asians, but we must accept that this had no impact on anything other than superficial characteristics.

 

If such differences do, in fact, arise, then I'm glad humans now accept interracial pairing, because everything will eventually even out.

NO, nothing will even out...because of...

Regression toward the mean.

Sorry.

 

Above is an example of human variables....

So...

NO.

 

Edited October 5, 2023 by GammaGlobulin

[Yellowtail]

20 minutes ago, PremiumLane said:

Oh you mean like when he debated Slavoj Zizek and clearly didn't know anything about the subject and admitted he hadn't even read Marx. 

Yeah, if he were a leftist, he never would have admitted there was anything he did not know. 

20 minutes ago, PremiumLane said:

Or, how about him whinging on Joe Rogan about how the "left" won't debate him.

So why does the left refuse to debate him? 

20 minutes ago, PremiumLane said:

Which is funny considering how poorly he did with Slavoj Zizek and how he ran away from a debate with the economist Richard Wolff.

Why is that funny? 

20 minutes ago, PremiumLane said:

Shall we also bring up his embarrassing claims to Matt Dillahunty about addiction and god?

Sure, I'd like to see it. 

20 minutes ago, PremiumLane said:

And then there is his melt down and Benzos addiction, and let's not forget his inane vapid posting on social media, or his cozying up to the fascists (and before you start winning, it is funded by right-wing backers and has self-proclaimed fascists as hosts)  on the Daily Wire.

I notice you did not post links that support any of your claims. Why is that? I think it a good bet you have not actually seen and or heard any of it, and that you are just regurgitating something someone else said. 

20 minutes ago, PremiumLane said:

So your "oh the left are reasonable" response is laughable 

I never said "oh the left are reasonable" in any response to anyone, ever, nor do I believe it. You are simply not telling the truth. But like most leftists, you are unable to actually formulate a coherent argument, so you make statements like "Peterson is an utter clown" and make things up about what others say.