2 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

 

The terrorist attack was not a war crime. 

 

 

   The Hamas attack on Israel was indeed a war crime  , it was actually numerous war crimes committed by Hamas , taking hostages is just one of the Hamas war crimes 

What do you call this Haw Haw ? bet you won't answer.

 

 

4 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Do you agree with this report? 

 

https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/damning-evidence-war-crimes-israeli-attacks-wipe-out-entire-families-gaza-enar

First sentence talks about "...the occupied Gaza Strip..", The Gaza has not been occupied for 15-20 years, so no, why would I bother reading it, much less agree with it? 

7 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

But there (apparently) were rockets being fired from next to the church, 

No, it was much worse. 

So, Palestine is guilty of war crimes, yes?

 

Apparently? 

Yes, a terrorist attack is maybe worse than some war crimes. 

Probably. 2 wrongs don't make a right. 

Do you agree Israel is committing war crimes? If not, I'd love to hear why! 

 

 

5 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

First sentence talks about "...the occupied Gaza Strip..", The Gaza has not been occupied for 15-20 years, so no, why would I bother reading it, much less agree with it? 

?? 

I guess you say Israel is not breaking war law? 

So the Gaza Strip isn't occupied? 

6 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

?? 

I guess you say Israel is not breaking war law? 

 

  Which "war law" is Israel breaking ?

1 minute ago, Neeranam said:

 

Apparently? 

Yes, unlike you, I do not state as fact things I am unsure of. Israel claims they were shooting at a nearby hamas site and missed. I have no reason to not believe them. Israel gains nothing by bombing a church full of civilians and looses a lot. 

1 minute ago, Neeranam said:

Yes, a terrorist attack is maybe worse than some war crimes. 

Absolutely worse than any war crime. 

1 minute ago, Neeranam said:

Probably. 2 wrongs don't make a right. 

Wow, that's really strong.

1 minute ago, Neeranam said:

Do you agree Israel is committing war crimes? If not, I'd love to hear why! 

I think some of the strikes could be judged war crimes. Unlike hamas/Paelstine, I do not think they are intestinally committing war crimes continuously.  

8 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

So the Gaza Strip isn't occupied? 

Correct

48 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Is bombing churches one of their obligations? 

Do you agree this is a war crime? 

Saw a very sad video of one man whose 3 children were killed here. 

 

 

 

39 minutes ago, rabas said:

How to say you didn't listen without saying it?  Post off topic  propaganda video from youtube. 

 

Paid for by the government that shelters the head of Hamas. 

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_Saint_Porphyrius_airstrike#Airstrike

 

"In an initial statement the IDF stated that Israeli fighter jets had hit a nearby command and control centre that was being used by Hamas to attack Israel".

 

Israel seems to have taken responsibility for the attack. Whether or not it violated international law is investigated. I'd say that's a tad better than the Palestinians denials in the hospital case. Mistakes happen - question is how they are addressed.

32 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

There are no tickets fired from the church. 

The terrorist attack was not a war crime. 

Firing  rockets from residential areas probably is a war crime. 

 

"The terrorist attack was not a war crime. "

 

Yes. It was.

You're out there on your own with that one, Tonto.

 

 

3 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Yes, unlike you, I do not state as fact things I am unsure of. Israel claims they were shooting at a nearby hamas site and missed. I have no reason to not believe them. Israel gains nothing by bombing a church full of civilians and looses a lot. 

Absolutely worse than any war crime. 

Wow, that's really strong.

I think some of the strikes could be judged war crimes. Unlike hamas/Paelstine, I do not think they are intestinally committing war crimes continuously.  

 

5 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Yes, unlike you, I do not state as fact things I am unsure of. Israel claims they were shooting at a nearby hamas site and missed. I have no reason to not believe them. Israel gains nothing by bombing a church full of civilians and looses a lot. 

Absolutely worse than any war crime. 

Wow, that's really strong.

I think some of the strikes could be judged war crimes. Unlike hamas/Paelstine, I do not think they are intestinally committing war crimes continuously.  

OK, so they are committing war crimes by mistake. At least you don't say Israel can do no wrong, like some here. 

 

What did I state as fact? 

 

Why the terrorist element of Hamas committed that vile attack, it wasn't a war crime. 

Unless you say they were already at war, then they didn't start this conflict. 

Are Hamas a state? 

Non-states allegedly can't commit war crimes. 

 

https://www.dw.com/en/what-constitutes-a-war-crime/a-60989316

1 hour ago, Yagoda said:

We should leave the Neo Nazis with their lefty loon antiamericanism/antisemitism/antiwest aside in this discussion and start looking at the geopolitical aspects, viz:

 

1. Iran stands in the way of Pan-Turkism

2. Israel is worth more to Turkey than Hamas

3. Israel is a strong ally of Azerbaijan

4. Azerbaijan is a Turkic nation, secular Muslim too.

5. 35% (I think) of Iran is Azeri.

6. Both Turkey and Azerbaijan have Nato aspirations

 

Whatever Turkey does will be with the foregoing in mind.

 

 

 

Turkey's policies, especially foreign and security seem to be more about Erdogan than the country's interest. His not-so-secret superpower is to get into fights and disagreements with everyone (in turn, there's a cycle thing). Right now he might be invested in Israel, but that could change very quickly. Also, he sometimes gets into one of them fiery speeches, starting a mess with someone in the region, then finds himself committed to a new course of action. 

 

I treat this as an anecdote, and perhaps a demonstration of how these notion of 'the Muslim world' don't hold.

1 minute ago, Neeranam said:

 

OK, so they are committing war crimes by mistake. At least you don't say Israel can do no wrong, like some here. 

No one here has claimed Israel can do no wrong. You are lying. 

1 minute ago, Neeranam said:

What did I state as fact? 

Israel is an aparthied state, 

1 minute ago, Neeranam said:

 

Why the terrorist element of Hamas committed that vile attack, it wasn't a war crime. 

Unless you say they were already at war, then they didn't start this conflict. 

Are Hamas a state? 

Non-states allegedly can't commit war crimes. 

 

https://www.dw.com/en/what-constitutes-a-war-crime/a-60989316

I said it was worse than a war crime, quit lying. 

dw.com  a site Haw Haw has trawled for on the web one of many he looks for.

6 hours ago, Neeranam said:

Is bombing churches one of their obligations? 

Do you agree this is a war crime? 

Saw a very sad video of one man whose 3 children were killed here. 

 

 

Here's the church, it was a strike by mistake on a building next door. image source Try another source for your information.

 

 

6 hours ago, Neeranam said:

There are no tickets fired from the church. 

The terrorist attack was not a war crime. 

Firing  rockets from residential areas probably is a war crime. 

 

Another lie from you, you complain of being accused of being a Hamas apologist but that's exactly what you are. Of course the incident on the 7th Oct was a war crime by Hamas, as well as a terrorist massacre. Despite Hamas being an irregular force, it is subject to the same international humanitarian law as Israel Defense Forces soldiers.

 

The Palestinians, joined the Rome Statute in 2015, which established the International Criminal Court in The Hague, so the ICC has jurisdiction over the West Bank and Gaza Strip.

 

"Premeditated, planned and deliberate killing of civilians — that's a clear war crime," head of ICTJ Fernando Travesí.

 

"the Oct. 7 attack by Hamas that targeted Israeli civilians, killing some 1,400, clearly fits within the definition of a war crime. Hamas militants took about 200 others hostage — an act also explicitly prohibited by the Geneva Convention."

 

https://www.npr.org/2023/10/20/1206157206/israel-hamas-war-crimes-international-law-geneva-convention

 

 

 

 

5 hours ago, Neeranam said:

 

OK, so they are committing war crimes by mistake. At least you don't say Israel can do no wrong, like some here. 

 

What did I state as fact? 

 

Why the terrorist element of Hamas committed that vile attack, it wasn't a war crime. 

Unless you say they were already at war, then they didn't start this conflict. 

Are Hamas a state? 

Non-states allegedly can't commit war crimes. 

 

https://www.dw.com/en/what-constitutes-a-war-crime/a-60989316

 

Read this and weep.........

 

https://www.npr.org/2023/10/20/1206157206/israel-hamas-war-crimes-international-law-geneva-convention

10 hours ago, Morch said:

"Did the New York Times retract their mistake and offer an apology?"

 

Editors’ Note: Gaza Hospital Coverage

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/23/pageoneplus/editors-note-gaza-hospital-coverage.html

 

This is exactly the reason why the established press, with reputations to protect, should be believed to a much greater extent than prejudiced "internet experts".

 

When organisations such as the NYT get something wrong, they retract and apologise whereas biased keyboard warriors never do likewise.

 

Any intelligent and rational person will have the awareness to not accept at face value the attempts by both sides in this conflict to either demonise their opponent or downplay their own criminality.

 

Just because one wants something to be true as it benefits their side, does not make it true.

 

Be patient, don't leap to conclusions and wait for verifiable proof from reputable sources.

 

Most importantly of course, is to not forget to change one's opinion when the evidence shows that one is wrong.

 

35 minutes ago, MrMojoRisin said:

Most importantly of course, is to not forget to change one's opinion when the evidence shows that one is wrong.

 

Indeed. As Israel continue to kill innocent people, surely they will change their Israel can do no wrong because the US and UK support them attitude 

7 hours ago, Neeranam said:

Do you agree with this report?

Have not read it / viewed it 

3 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Indeed. As Israel continue to kill innocent people, surely they will change their Israel can do no wrong because the US and UK support them attitude 

Isreal has the military capability to raze Gaza to the ground.   If they are who you say they are why do they not choose to do this and instead make every effort to warn the civilian population of the military targets (located in civilian buildings) of where they intend to strike.   This warning costs them the element of surprise as the Hamas terrorists also receive this warning and can (and do) move their rockets to another location.   Seems terribly inefficient to me and if the goal of Israel was to kill innocents, then why on earth would they take such efforts to avoid doing so?   

 

Imagine if Hamas had the same capability.  You think they would not have used it to wipe Israel off the map already?   Actually maybe they wouldn't as that would remove the opportunity to mutilate and torture their victims before they killed them.   I think the reason that a lot of people are siding with Isreal is that Hamas sent in their troops to mutilate, torture, behead and kill as many innocent Israeli's (without warning) as they could, and feel that an action such as this cannot go unanswered as otherwise it will embolden the terrorists to do it again.  

 

Do you have a better answer than Israel to the kind of response required to the kind of murderous brutality that occurred on their territory?  If so, what is it?   

7 minutes ago, James105 said:

Isreal has the military capability to raze Gaza to the ground.   If they are who you say they are why do they not choose to do this and instead make every effort to warn the civilian population of the military targets (located in civilian buildings) of where they intend to strike.   This warning costs them the element of surprise as the Hamas terrorists also receive this warning and can (and do) move their rockets to another location.   Seems terribly inefficient to me and if the goal of Israel was to kill innocents, then why on earth would they take such efforts to avoid doing so?   

 

Imagine if Hamas had the same capability.  You think they would not have used it to wipe Israel off the map already?   Actually maybe they wouldn't as that would remove the opportunity to mutilate and torture their victims before they killed them.   I think the reason that a lot of people are siding with Isreal is that Hamas sent in their troops to mutilate, torture, behead and kill as many innocent Israeli's (without warning) as they could, and feel that an action such as this cannot go unanswered as otherwise it will embolden the terrorists to do it again.  

 

Do you have a better answer than Israel to the kind of response required to the kind of murderous brutality that occurred on their territory?  If so, what is it?   

They're is no easy solution when both hate each other so much. 

 

One thing, that is obvious is for Israel to treat Palestinians equally and do away with all the discriminatory laws and apartheid. This  is the first step. Israel are forcing millions to leave their homes, maybe this is the better option for them to get the land they seem hungry for, which will cause even more resentment. 

 

 

 

7 hours ago, Neeranam said:

Why the terrorist element of Hamas committed that vile attack

Transparent apologist … trying to now claim that there is only an element of Hamas that are terrorists. Hamas is a terrorist organisation, why do you find that so difficult to understand (rhetorical)

Piers, like me, seems unbiased here -  

 

4 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Piers, like me, seems unbiased

Comedy gold .... ha ha ha ha ha ha 

6 hours ago, Neeranam said:

Piers, like me, seems unbiased here

Piers is a snake and was he unbiased when he faked British Troops torturing/humiliating supposedly captured Iraqis, which incidentally led to his sacking from The Daily Mirror. 🥴

1 hour ago, Neeranam said:

You are very confrontational, calling me a liar. 

Most on this thread refuse to acknowledge Israel are committing war crimes, which they are, killing children, refusing food and water, for a start. 

 

 

   Those are not war crimes .

The International lawyer posted earlier in this thread stated as such , 

You are saying things that are untrue

4 minutes ago, Wobblybob said:

Piers is a snake and was he unbiased when he faked British Troops torturing/humiliating supposedly captured Iraqis, which incidentally led to his sacking from The Daily Mirror. 🥴

I've no idea about his past, he is unbiased in this interview, did you watch it? 

5 hours ago, Neeranam said:

I've no idea about his past, he is unbiased in this interview, did you watch it? 

No I didn't watch, just the same as I wouldn't poke red hot needles in my eyes, Morgan is a liar and why would anyone want to listen to a proven liar unless he is saying things they want to hear!